Sergio's Putting stroke

[mattsuth87]

Perfect?

When I was watching the Transitions this past weekend one of the announcers was commenting on Sergio's stroke. He said that when tested on the SAM putting test Sergio's stroke was perfect( or very close, im not sure exactly what he said) he also said that sergio's stoke had a higher rating than Tiger's. I found this pretty interesting but dont really have any way of knowing if this is accurate.

Could anyone explain what this test measures and how it works? Maybe he just really sucks at reading greens? haha

[bargolf]

It turns out perfect isn't so perfect. PuttLab measures to zeros. Straight path, square face, symetrical strokes with a preferred timing by the system.

The best putters don't putt that way.

[J13]

Green reading and speed are the keys to a great putter. SAM lab doesn't measure that. It is useful for properly fitting a putter to a player but once that is done their are a lot of other factors mainly the two I mentioned in the first sentence.

[clc55]

SAM doesn't measure the 8 inches between the ears, which is really where putting is based.

[Obsessotron]

In Sergio's case it looks like perfect isn't good enough

[CryMeARiver]

You sure they didn't say putrid?

[gators78]

[quote name='bargolf' date='24 March 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1269448813' post='2337863']
It turns out perfect isn't so perfect. PuttLab measures to zeros. Straight path, square face, symetrical strokes with a preferred timing by the system.

The best putters don't putt that way.
[/quote]

I got fit on the TOMI (I think thats it) system at SeeMore, and they said ideal is slightly in to out with an open putterface.

And how in the world can anybody say with a straight face Sergio has a better stroke than Tiger.

[TheLastDon]

Because according to the SAM system, his stroke is better "technically" than Tiger's. Didn't say he was a better putter, or player, but that his stroke was more technically sound than Tiger's. The best players often don't have the best technically sound swing or stroke, we all know this. Technique obviously plays a part, but golf is about consistency and mental strength.

[Shanks For The Memories]

You can hit a perfect putt in the wrong direction...

[Shwagin1066]

Here's to hoping Sergio can putt this year! GO EL NINO!

[MatthewT]

consistency is the key, tiger has that

[gators78]

[quote name='TheLastDon' date='24 March 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1269455912' post='2338093']
Because according to the SAM system, his stroke is better "technically" than Tiger's. Didn't say he was a better putter, or player, but that his stroke was more technically sound than Tiger's. The best players often don't have the best technically sound swing or stroke, we all know this. Technique obviously plays a part, but golf is about consistency and mental strength.
[/quote]

Which is true, but as someone said I think this is based off all zero'ed numbers, which apparently is debatable in some putting circles. And I will have to admit, I'm not a Tiger fan at all, but you'll have a very hard time proving to me, even with all the numbers, that Sergio has a more technically sound putting stroke than Tiger. And if you do have the numbers it would be interesting.

I think the line "can't see the forest for the trees" is appropriate.

[PreppySlapCut]

Speed. Read. Aim. Line.

In order...

Just because you have a perfect stroke and the ball gets started on the right line does NOT mean you are going to be a great putter.

[guymsullaway]

[quote name='clc55' date='24 March 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1269450841' post='2337914']
SAM doesn't measure the 8 inches between the ears, which is really where putting is based.
[/quote]
+1

[Dizz]

I thought I read an article where on SAM it said Tiger aims very slightly right and slightly pulls every single putt but his stroke repeats and is nearly identical every time.

[dowiginton]

The problem is the machine can't read what's going on between Sergio's ears. Putting is almost all mental in IMO and that's where Sergio's problem lies.

[gators78]

[quote name='Dizzub' date='24 March 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1269489349' post='2339306']
I thought I read an article where on SAM it said Tiger aims very slightly right and slightly pulls every single putt but his stroke repeats and is nearly identical every time.
[/quote]

It's the opposite, he has it going just slightly in to out 1 degree. Intentional pulls it when you release the putter can get pretty ugly.

From the SAM website
http://www.scienceandmotion.com/press/pdf_artikel/woods_golfdigest_3_2008.pdf

[Jimv]

[quote name='Shwagin1066' date='24 March 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1269461189' post='2338261']
Here's to hoping Sergio can putt this year! GO EL NINO!
[/quote]

Took my kids (8, 6, 4) to BMW last year, and they met Sergio at putting green and asked for autograpohs - based on his behavior, no reason to ever support Sergio!

[playmuch]

If SAM is saying Sergio's putter stroke is better the Tiger's then i will have to stay away from using SAM.

[PingEye2]

[quote name='mattsuth87' date='24 March 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1269448153' post='2337835']
When I was watching the Transitions this past weekend one of the announcers was commenting on Sergio's stroke. He said that when tested on the SAM putting test Sergio's stroke was perfect( or very close, im not sure exactly what he said) he also said that sergio's stoke had a higher rating than Tiger's. I found this pretty interesting but dont really have any way of knowing if this is accurate.

Could anyone explain what this test measures and how it works? [i][b]Maybe he just really sucks at reading greens? haha[/b][/i]
[/quote]

I've been thinking the bolded part of your post above is correct! Ever notice how he makes everything in the Ryder Cup when he has a partner looking at his putts....

[ezeddie]

[quote name='PingEye2' date='28 March 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1269809120' post='2346341']
[quote name='mattsuth87' date='24 March 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1269448153' post='2337835']
When I was watching the Transitions this past weekend one of the announcers was commenting on Sergio's stroke. He said that when tested on the SAM putting test Sergio's stroke was perfect( or very close, im not sure exactly what he said) he also said that sergio's stoke had a higher rating than Tiger's. I found this pretty interesting but dont really have any way of knowing if this is accurate.

Could anyone explain what this test measures and how it works? [i][b]Maybe he just really sucks at reading greens? haha[/b][/i]
[/quote]
[b]
I've been thinking the bolded part of your post above is correct! Ever notice how he makes everything in the Ryder Cup when he has a partner looking at his putts....
[/quote][/b]


Well then his caddies must really suck too then because they help him read greens as well in regular tournaments.

[Chappie]

[quote name='Shanks For The Memories' date='24 March 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1269456089' post='2338103']
You can hit a perfect putt in the wrong direction...
[/quote]

Bingo. If putting was 100% stroke, it would be the easiest part of the game. What makes putting essentially a game within the game is that you have to account for 4 different variables. Your stroke, your alignment, speed of the green and the break. When you are driving, striking, chipping or pitching a ball, all you have to account for is stroke and lie (and club selection, but that goes without saying). Wind also obviously plays a part in it, but I can stroke a hard fade into a hard right to left cross wind and keep myself straight.

Sergio is a bad putter because he focuses [i]too[/i] much of his time on his stroke, and not enough on his reads. The guy goes through billions of putters each year, trying to find the one that will put the ball in the hole for him. He doesn't need forgiveness, he needs someone to sit him down and teach him what a break looks like from 5, 10 and 20 feet out.

[DRGJR72]

When I was on staff with TM I went down to the Kingdom on several occasions. On one of those trips I was working on my putting in the SAM lab and got to talking with my man in the putter studio. He told me that Sergio's stats on the SAM lab were off the charts good. He performed better than most everyone, and would roll it ridiculously good in the studio and they would make him several putters to his specs, which he rolled very, very well. He would then go to the tournament, not putt well and then switch the putter out within a short period of time. He told me that he did not know what the deal was but the problem is not his putting stroke, as he rolls the ball scary good.

I have no idea what the deal is. Maybe it is confidence. The bottom line is according to the SAM lab at TM he rolls it amazing and should make a ton of putts. I guess it is not all about the data and the stats. There is more to putting than that. But if you have a wand that maximizes your ability to hole putts, one would think you could be a better putter. I guess Sergio needs to make some and build on his confidence.

I am thinking back to the British where he hit a "perfect putt" on 18 and it lipped out. He putted so well that week and when it counted it did not drop for him. Maybe that just added to his mental disconnect with his putter. I think if he had made that putt we might see a different Sergio. I know that if's and maybe's are ridiculous but it really made me think about him and his putting issues.

I guess confidence in putting comes from making putts no matter the wand or what a SAM lab tells you.

[Chappie]

[quote name='DRGJR72' date='01 April 2010 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1270100474' post='2354458']
When I was on staff with TM I went down to the Kingdom on several occasions. On one of those trips I was working on my putting in the SAM lab and got to talking with my man in the putter studio. He told me that Sergio's stats on the SAM lab were off the charts good. He performed better than most everyone, and would roll it ridiculously good in the studio and they would make him several putters to his specs, which he rolled very, very well. He would then go to the tournament, not putt well and then switch the putter out within a short period of time. He told me that he did not know what the deal was but the problem is not his putting stroke, as he rolls the ball scary good.

I have no idea what the deal is. Maybe it is confidence. The bottom line is according to the SAM lab at TM he rolls it amazing and should make a ton of putts. I guess it is not all about the data and the stats. There is more to putting than that. But if you have a wand that maximizes your ability to hole putts, one would think you could be a better putter. I guess Sergio needs to make some and build on his confidence.

I am thinking back to the British where he hit a "perfect putt" on 18 and it lipped out. He putted so well that week and when it counted it did not drop for him. Maybe that just added to his mental disconnect with his putter. I think if he had made that putt we might see a different Sergio. I know that if's and maybe's are ridiculous but it really made me think about him and his putting issues.

I guess confidence in putting comes from making putts no matter the wand or what a SAM lab tells you.
[/quote]

I really don't even think it's mental. I think Sergio just has a tough time reading greens, and I think it's probably exacerbated by the fact that he's so frustrated with his putting that all he does is practice his putting stroke. I bet if he relegated some of the time he putts into his putter stroke into properly reading greens, he'd be a much, much better putter. I don't know, I don't think it can be mental with the way he putts.

I do think his belief that he needs to change putters every so often is a bit crazy though. That probably does affect his game. Someone needs to sit him down and just tell him to stop, and change his practice routine on the green. It's obvious that as of right now, it's just not working.

[iteachgolf]

[u]4 skills in putting[/u](in order of importance)
Speed
Read
Aim
Stroke


Stroke is the least important skill in putting. Controlling the delivery speed and reading greens well are the most important and what Sergio struggles the most with.

[Chappie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' date='01 April 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1270101068' post='2354469']
[u]4 skills in putting[/u](in order of importance)
Speed
Read
Aim
Stroke


Stroke is the least important skill in putting. Controlling the delivery speed and reading greens well are the most important and what Sergio struggles the most with.
[/quote]

I've always considered there to be 5 rules myself. Basically the same order, but after read I always add tempo. It's something a lot of players at all stages of the game overlook, and whenever I feel like I'm not putting well, I always consider it a priority to check my tempo against a metronome (as a musician, it was the best idea I had at the time when I first became serious about putting, and it has done a lot for me).

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' date='24 March 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1269484519' post='2339130']
Speed. Read. Aim. Line.

In order...

Just because you have a perfect stroke and the ball gets started on the right line does NOT mean you are going to be a great putter.
[/quote]


[quote name='iteachgolf' date='01 April 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1270101068' post='2354469']
[u]4 skills in putting[/u](in order of importance)
Speed
Read
Aim
Stroke


Stroke is the least important skill in putting. Controlling the delivery speed and reading greens well are the most important and what Sergio struggles the most with.
[/quote]
They say great minds think alike my friend...

[Lefty-22]

[quote name='Jimv' date='25 March 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1269561924' post='2340979']
[quote name='Shwagin1066' date='24 March 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1269461189' post='2338261']
Here's to hoping Sergio can putt this year! GO EL NINO!
[/quote]

Took my kids (8, 6, 4) to BMW last year, and they met Sergio at putting green and asked for autograpohs - based on his behavior, no reason to ever support Sergio!
[/quote]

Ever since he spit in the cup he's been a "[size=2]David Simms" (dude from Tin Cup) in my book - probably hates children, old people, and dogs...[/size]
[size=2]
[/size]
[size="3"][size=2]I root for whoever is playing against Sergio.[/size][/size]

[Shwagin1066]

[quote name='Lefty-22' date='01 April 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1270143047' post='2355155']
[quote name='Jimv' date='25 March 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1269561924' post='2340979']
[quote name='Shwagin1066' date='24 March 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1269461189' post='2338261']
Here's to hoping Sergio can putt this year! GO EL NINO!
[/quote]

Took my kids (8, 6, 4) to BMW last year, and they met Sergio at putting green and asked for autograpohs - based on his behavior, no reason to ever support Sergio!
[/quote]

Ever since he spit in the cup he's been a "[size=2]David Simms" (dude from Tin Cup) in my book - probably hates children, old people, and dogs...[/size]
[size=2]
[/size]
[size="3"][size=2]I root for whoever is playing against Sergio.[/size][/size]
[/quote]

That's a pretty low comparison, hopefully an exaggeration

[Shanks For The Memories]

[quote name='Shwagin1066' date='01 April 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1270152023' post='2355395']
[quote name='Lefty-22' date='01 April 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1270143047' post='2355155']
[quote name='Jimv' date='25 March 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1269561924' post='2340979']
[quote name='Shwagin1066' date='24 March 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1269461189' post='2338261']
Here's to hoping Sergio can putt this year! GO EL NINO!
[/quote]

Took my kids (8, 6, 4) to BMW last year, and they met Sergio at putting green and asked for autograpohs - based on his behavior, no reason to ever support Sergio!
[/quote]

Ever since he spit in the cup he's been a "[size="2"]David Simms" (dude from Tin Cup) in my book - probably hates children, old people, and dogs...[/size]

[size="3"][size="2"]I root for whoever is playing against Sergio.[/size][/size]
[/quote]

That's a pretty low comparison, hopefully an exaggeration
[/quote]

I actually think Simms is a better person...