Crosshairs on Tour heads for sale...

[John Dortmunder]

...what's up with this?

Why is it that people who have a tour head for sale take a sharpie and draw in these crosshairs on the face?

Does this magically make it more salable or bring a better price?

Makes me laugh.

I've bought at least 4 TaylorMade Tour heads, all with the plastic on the heads and the sticker on them that gives F/A, lie, weight, date measured - none had and crosshairs drawn on them.

What gives?

C

[Ducky]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Do you have a picture or something?

[Simp]

I'm sure it has something to do with the testing of the "trampoline effect". I have no idea why an individual would do this though.

[Gxgolfer]

The cross hairs were probably removed prior to your receiving them. The cross hairs indicate .COR testing.

[tpariff]

Those crosshairs are supposed to indicate the "hot spot" on the clubface. If yours didn't have it marked, you can always have them "certified" by a certain group of people. Ha, Ha, Ha.

[Gxgolfer]

If it's a TM tour head with the crosshairs and without the 3B serial then it's a cast off and didn't pass TM's standards for tour heads. The 3B is the true signature of being COR tested and "tour ready." The other site sells a lot of these as PGA Tour COR tested which is a big crock. They're basically just like the retail TP heads as compared to the slightly hotter "tour tested" heads.

 

I have heard this about the Serial numbers and "cast offs" but, I have never heard a first hand source. Do you have a first hand source???

[sukisuki007]

my r5 tour has the t serial but only has a b on it not a 3b does this make a difference. I got mine used so I dont know if the head had the sharpie marks on it thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J

[dmboak]

Just a simple thought in logic here. Why would any OEM take out a ruler and sharpie and put a + or X on a clubface if it was bad? Wouldn't they simply destroy the head?

[samm980]

Just a simple thought in logic here. Why would any OEM take out a ruler and sharpie and put a + or X on a clubface if it was bad? Wouldn't they simply destroy the head?

 

 

Very true Derek, I have never seen a Tour player using a head with the crosshairs so let me use this thought. Could they be heads used for testing of the product?

 

Fact is Derek is 100% right an OEM would destroy an inferior product, lets use some common sense guys.

[samm980]

Just a simple thought in logic here. Why would any OEM take out a ruler and sharpie and put a + or X on a clubface if it was bad? Wouldn't they simply destroy the head?

 

 

Very true Derek, I have never seen a Tour player using a head with the crosshairs so let me use this thought. Could they be heads used for testing of the product?

 

Fact is Derek is 100% right an OEM would destroy an inferior product, lets use some common sense guys.

 

to be a little more direct about it...I don't thing TM ever sit around and draw any crosshairs on driver heads regardless of the level of testing.

 

the other thing I get a kick out of is someone went out and got a little stamp made that said "hot melt"...and is using it to stamp the face of certain drivers - I find it very amusing.

 

C

 

The Hot Melt stamp I have seen other places. Chopper I know you from the other site and I know where you are trieing to go with this but I don't think this arguement holds water sorry.

[John Dortmunder]

Just a simple thought in logic here. Why would any OEM take out a ruler and sharpie and put a + or X on a clubface if it was bad? Wouldn't they simply destroy the head?

 

 

Very true Derek, I have never seen a Tour player using a head with the crosshairs so let me use this thought. Could they be heads used for testing of the product?

 

Fact is Derek is 100% right an OEM would destroy an inferior product, lets use some common sense guys.

 

to be a little more direct about it...I don't thing TM ever sit around and draw any crosshairs on driver heads regardless of the level of testing.

 

the other thing I get a kick out of is someone went out and got a little stamp made that said "hot melt"...and is using it to stamp the face of certain drivers - I find it very amusing.

 

C

 

The Hot Melt stamp I have seen other places. Chopper I know you from the other site and I know where you are trieing to go with this but I don't think this arguement holds water sorry.

 

just an observation, that's all. not "going anywhere" with it...

 

C

 

(you must have me confused with someone else)

[dmboak]

Just a simple thought in logic here. Why would any OEM take out a ruler and sharpie and put a + or X on a clubface if it was bad? Wouldn't they simply destroy the head?

 

 

Very true Derek, I have never seen a Tour player using a head with the crosshairs so let me use this thought. Could they be heads used for testing of the product?

 

Fact is Derek is 100% right an OEM would destroy an inferior product, lets use some common sense guys.

 

to be a little more direct about it...I don't thing TM ever sit around and draw any crosshairs on driver heads regardless of the level of testing.

 

the other thing I get a kick out of is someone went out and got a little stamp made that said "hot melt"...and is using it to stamp the face of certain drivers - I find it very amusing.

 

C

 

The Hot Melt stamp I have seen other places. Chopper I know you from the other site and I know where you are trieing to go with this but I don't think this arguement holds water sorry.

 

just an observation, that's all. not "going anywhere" with it...

 

C

 

(you must have me confused with someone else)

 

Hot Melt I can see being useful to stamp on the head...so to identify ones that have it. As for the + with the Sharpie, I'm going to try to hit the center of the face every time so that's kinda useless to me.

[DemolitionMan]

You got that right Chopper, you are not going anywhere with it, nor anywhere else with another topic.

 

The crosshairs are put there by the OEM, as well as the Hot Melt stamp. One is for the COR test, which must be done on every single head (some of you have short memories over the COR test issue), the other is to designate weight was added to the head.

 

You are confusing the other crosshair that is not in the center put on by another site to designate a so called precise sweet spot which is nuts. Another debate that has not only come and gone, but so has the ripoff service that started all the debate.

 

If you do not like the crosshairs, clean it off. It comes off by itself pretty quickly anyway. It's not permanent.

[Jaylasvegas]

good post Demo :drinks:

[Gxgolfer]

 

 

just an observation, that's all. not "going anywhere" with it...

 

C

 

(you must have me confused with someone else)

 

Sorry Choppy,

 

I think guys have you confused with BSG Moderator "choppy". As you can see, there is alot of passion about this topic and alot of confusion....

[dmboak]

 

 

just an observation, that's all. not "going anywhere" with it...

 

C

 

(you must have me confused with someone else)

 

Sorry Choppy,

 

I think guys have you confused with BSG Moderator "choppy". As you can see, there is alot of passion about this topic and alot of confusion....

 

Yeah, he's Chopper from NYC and Choppy the Mod is from KC.

[Gxgolfer]

What is the question??? Are you asking what the difference is between where they test for .COR vs where the sweet spot is?

 

.COR is tested at the thinnest part of the face. With larger headed drivers, generally the sweetspot has been center high.

 

You got that right Chopper, you are not going anywhere with it, nor anywhere else with another topic.

 

The crosshairs are put there by the OEM, as well as the Hot Melt stamp. One is for the COR test, which must be done on every single head (some of you have short memories over the COR test issue), the other is to designate weight was added to the head.

 

You are confusing the other crosshair that is not in the center put on by another site to designate a so called precise sweet spot which is nuts. Another debate that has not only come and gone, but so has the ripoff service that started all the debate.

 

If you do not like the crosshairs, clean it off. It comes off by itself pretty quickly anyway. It's not permanent.

 

Any first hand proof on this please? Id be interested to know if this is true. E.g Titleist introduced the aluminium sleeve for the 905 to bring the True sweetspot closer to the centre of the face. This was shown to me by a Titleist R & D guy.

 

many thanks

 

Gerald

[Gxgolfer]

Are you asking for proof that sweet spot and .COR testing are not necessarily the same location? Japanese Mags have listed Sweet Spots on drivers for years. You can compare that to a Tour obtained head with the cross hairs.

 

i was just querying the statement:

 

"You are confusing the other crosshair that is not in the center put on to designate a so called precise sweet spot which is nuts"

 

The precise sweetspot does not have to be the centre of the club, Titleist used the aluminium sleeve to move the sweetspot closer to the centre of the 905T as it was found to be closer to the toe side, and with the 905S the heel side. i was just wondering what proof their was to the above quotation. many thanks

 

Gerald

[DemolitionMan]

i was just querying the statement:

 

"You are confusing the other crosshair that is not in the center put on to designate a so called precise sweet spot which is nuts"

 

The precise sweetspot does not have to be the centre of the club, Titleist used the aluminium sleeve to move the sweetspot closer to the centre of the 905T as it was found to be closer to the toe side, and with the 905S the heel side. i was just wondering what proof their was to the above quotation. many thanks

 

Gerald

 

The "nuts" part was in reference to the service.

[Gxgolfer]

The thinnest part of the face does not necessarily equal the hottest part/sweetspot. Golf Classic Japan should have sweetspot location specs. Then compare that to ebay pics of Tour heads from Broken Niblick.

 

 

All i am saying is that the statement i quoted said that another site had put on crosshairs to designate the true sweetspot. Why would they do that when C.O.R is tested on the hottest part of the face? e.g the true sweetspot. Then when found it is marked with a Black cross to show the so called "hot spot" i want to see info or proof that this is not true please .

 

Thank you

[Gxgolfer]

The amount of weight needed to change the Sweetspot is significant. In general, they should be in the same location.

[DemolitionMan]

All i am saying is that the statement i quoted said that another site had put on crosshairs to designate the true sweetspot. Why would they do that when C.O.R is tested on the hottest part of the face? e.g the true sweetspot. Then when found it is marked with a Black cross to show the so called "hot spot" i want to see info or proof that this is not true please .

 

Thank you

 

COR is tested for the middle of the face. Why? Well, that's where good players hit the ball - middle of the face. End of that story.

 

As far as the so called "sweetspot", let's take a R7 425 TP model as an example.

 

 

Manufactured to spec and with neutral weighting 2-12-12-2 is going to result in the sweet spot being somewhere near the middle. Allowing for manufacturing tolerances, different heads may have different sweetspots. But we are not talking about an inch away, we are talking millimeters, less than the impact area of the ball.

 

Take one of these clubs made for the tour and go through the hot melt process which adds weight. Now measure again to find the sweetspot and it's slightly different. This should be of no surprise to anyone. Therefore, when you see someone/someplace else performing this service and adding their own crosshair, it may or may not be in the center where the COR test was performed. But unless a lot of weight is added, this new COG location is not going to be too far off from center. Again, mm's, not inches, and the huge majority of the time not a ball's width apart.

 

So while a someone might take a driver, re-test for optimum COG and then label the driver as having a slight heel or toe bias, the difference is negligible. If I had robo-swinger hit the center every time and compare to hitting another driver's optimum COG spot everytime thats 3 mm off center, what are we talking about 1 yd difference? 2 yds? That is, if robo-swinger in human form actually existed.

 

By the way, we have not even adjusted the weights yet, which will further change COG. Swap the 12g weights with the 2g. Should be obvious to everyone, you just affected COG and you probably need to hit this driver higher on the face to get the maximum benefit. Now what value would a new set of crosshairs be to you at this point? Well, nothing unless you plan to play that setup everytime and even then it's only valuable to those with simple minds.

 

Let's keep this simple. A tour issue head is shrink wrapped to protect the paint somewhat while these things are thrown around. You can't COR test with plastic in the way, so a portion in the center is removed, crosshairs are drawn to identify the center, and the test performed. That's it, no more magic and no more meaning to the crosshairs. If the driver is built for testing by a player, then the ink is washed off, if not built up, then luckily it finds it's way to an end user who is nowhere near a tour but probably hangs out at a website often enough.

[Simp]

Well said!

[binneguru]

If it's a TM tour head with the crosshairs and without the 3B serial then it's a cast off and didn't pass TM's standards for tour heads. The 3B is the true signature of being COR tested and "tour ready." The other site sells a lot of these as PGA Tour COR tested which is a big crock. They're basically just like the retail TP heads as compared to the slightly hotter "tour tested" heads.

 

I have heard this about the Serial numbers and "cast offs" but, I have never heard a first hand source. Do you have a first hand source???

Yes please do tell :drinks:

[dmboak]

Are the sweetspots in the same place on every head made? e.g is the R5 tour sweetspot the same on the 100's of its brothers and sisters that exist?

 

I think what they're trying to get at is yes, within a couple of millimeters of each other. As clubs have manufacturing tolerances, sweetspots can vary...within a couple millimeters.

[cardia10]

Hey guys, Just do the crosshairs yourself with this tool. http://www.golfsmith.com/products/245247

 

It might work???

[dmboak]

Hey guys, Just do the crosshairs yourself with this tool. http://www.golfsmith.com/products/245247

 

It might work???

 

Just 10 easy payments of $500!!!!

[Gxgolfer]

Lead tape can alter ball flight. So, to some extent Hot Melt and MWT can to. I don't see how that related to COG or .COR.

[Extreme Firepower]

Tom Wishton has already debunked the lead tape = ball flight change.. the link has been posted

too many times already.

 

As for a club head with two sets of cross hairs millimeters apart, it's trash head... I could talk to you about MOI and COG and how that relates to COR and overall distance and direction but I not going to waste my time, seems you've pitched your tent in the golf voodoo camp...

 

It's analogous to taking a sports car, putting the engine on the roof, brakes on the wing mirrors and saying it goes 50 MPH faster and handles better!

 

How many yards is a ''tour certified' head worth ???? Is it worth more than the chicken bones that have been rattled around it ??

 

End of conversation, sensible people know the real deal and con men know the value of

an uneducated, idiotic punter

[Gxgolfer]

Extreme Firepower,

 

This is a discussion board and there are two sides to a discussion. Your post will generally start an escalation war of name calling that will take down this thread. I "respect" you opinion and you should respect mine. Tom Wishon is a respected clubmaker and he has his opinions and theories. Not everyone agrees with him and everything he preaches. You obviously do. You are right, people reading these threads will hopefully know who the "punters" are.

 

The original question of this thread was "What do the crosshairs mean?" Its there for .COR testing. This really has nothing to do with "Tour Certified Heads"

 

 

Tom Wishton has already debunked the lead tape = ball flight change.. the link has been posted

too many times already.

 

As for a club head with two sets of cross hairs millimeters apart, it's trash head... I could talk to you about MOI and COG and how that relates to COR and overall distance and direction but I not going to waste my time, seems you've pitched your tent in the golf voodoo camp...

 

It's analogous to taking a sports car, putting the engine on the roof, brakes on the wing mirrors and saying it goes 50 MPH faster and handles better!

 

How many yards is a ''tour certified' head worth ???? Is it worth more than the chicken bones that have been rattled around it ??

 

End of conversation, sensible people know the real deal and con men know the value of

an uneducated, idiotic punter