Michelle Wie Fires her caddie today

[CLEVELAND59]

I will go out on a limb and say M Wie is the next Anna Kournikova, only not really as good looking.

 

 

I'm taking bets on that, you just name the terms. (I interpret this to mean you believe Wie will never win a tourney)

 

on the subject of caddie/player relationships, they are extremely sensitive/tenuous situtations at best and there are tons of instances where great players and caddies have separated for whatever reason...it just happens all the time and ain't that big a deal.

 

here's a link to a simialr situation, everyone came out ok in the end:

 

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate...9/garcia22.html

 

C

 

Not sure how you figure everyone came out of that deal OK....Sergio went on to split with Fanny after only a few starts, moved on to Murray, which lasted for him a long time, and now he is on to another bag toter.

 

Higgy has bounced from bag to bag since splitting with O'Meara, only because O'Meara was a cheap bastxxx (who got what he deserved with his tailspin since winning 2 majors with Higgy on the bag) and Higgy called him on it (publically, which unfortunately has sealed his fate as far as finding a regular quality bag on the PGA tour).

 

Fanny moved on to semi-retirement.

 

Remind me who made out OK?

[CLEVELAND59]

I also believe that she should have won SOMETHING as an amature before turning pro.

 

Uh didnt she win the 03 Amateur Pub Links?

 

As for the firing of the caddie, I think its gotta be more of a feel type thing. If you dont feel comfotable with your caddy then you might not get the best out of your game.

 

As for people calling her a flop, shes still 16 and has had a pretty good year for not winning.

 

The US Amatuer womens pub links is not exactly a marquee event. Win a marquee event. Win a bunch of events of any sort. Win SOMETHING. 1 win as an amateur does not exactly create an instant resume of success.

[John Dortmunder]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

[John Dortmunder]

I will go out on a limb and say M Wie is the next Anna Kournikova, only not really as good looking.

 

 

I'm taking bets on that, you just name the terms. (I interpret this to mean you believe Wie will never win a tourney)

 

on the subject of caddie/player relationships, they are extremely sensitive/tenuous situtations at best and there are tons of instances where great players and caddies have separated for whatever reason...it just happens all the time and ain't that big a deal.

 

here's a link to a simialr situation, everyone came out ok in the end:

 

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate...9/garcia22.html

 

C

 

Not sure how you figure everyone came out of that deal OK....Sergio went on to split with Fanny after only a few starts, moved on to Murray, which lasted for him a long time, and now he is on to another bag toter.

 

Higgy has bounced from bag to bag since splitting with O'Meara, only because O'Meara was a cheap bastxxx (who got what he deserved with his tailspin since winning 2 majors with Higgy on the bag) and Higgy called him on it (publically, which unfortunately has sealed his fate as far as finding a regular quality bag on the PGA tour).

 

Fanny moved on to semi-retirement.

 

Remind me who made out OK?

 

Jerry got married and chose not to be on tour full-time anymore...plain and simple. I played in his group when he did several events for Emanuel Canonica a few years ago and he told me so. if Jerry wanted to be out there full-time he could make it happen in a minute.

 

ditto for Fanny, her choice.

 

Sergio doing well.

 

Johnston is a great caddy, he'll be fine.

 

if a caddy can't find a job, there's probably a very good reason...guys like Steve Duplantis and Myles Byrne come to mind.

 

JD

[cardia10]

I'm going to take the approach that this move is to take the eyes of her total lack of knowledge (or was it that the cameras weren't on in the junior tournaments and she could get away with a little more?) of the rules. In the words of a great redneck I know "excuses are like a**holes, everybody has one!" Michelle seems to have multiple ones. Oh well, She'll learn and I'm sure she will one day even win a Costco,Mary Kay,Pedigree Dog Food LPGA Championship.

[CLEVELAND59]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

[John Dortmunder]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

exactly how much would you like to bet...?

 

JD

[CLEVELAND59]

I will go out on a limb and say M Wie is the next Anna Kournikova, only not really as good looking.

 

 

I'm taking bets on that, you just name the terms. (I interpret this to mean you believe Wie will never win a tourney)

 

on the subject of caddie/player relationships, they are extremely sensitive/tenuous situtations at best and there are tons of instances where great players and caddies have separated for whatever reason...it just happens all the time and ain't that big a deal.

 

here's a link to a simialr situation, everyone came out ok in the end:

 

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate...9/garcia22.html

 

C

 

Not sure how you figure everyone came out of that deal OK....Sergio went on to split with Fanny after only a few starts, moved on to Murray, which lasted for him a long time, and now he is on to another bag toter.

 

Higgy has bounced from bag to bag since splitting with O'Meara, only because O'Meara was a cheap bastxxx (who got what he deserved with his tailspin since winning 2 majors with Higgy on the bag) and Higgy called him on it (publically, which unfortunately has sealed his fate as far as finding a regular quality bag on the PGA tour).

 

Fanny moved on to semi-retirement.

 

Remind me who made out OK?

 

Jerry got married and chose not to be on tour full-time anymore...plain and simple. I played in his group when he did several events for Emanuel Canonica a few years ago and he told me so. if Jerry wanted to be out there full-time he could make it happen in a minute.

 

ditto for Fanny, her choice.

 

Sergio doing well.

 

Johnston is a great caddy, he'll be fine.

 

if a caddy can't find a job, there's probably a very good reason...guys like Steve Duplantis and Myles Byrne come to mind.

 

JD

 

If you think Higgy could get a regular bag, keep believing that delusion. Jerry is a great guy, but he buried himself when he split with Mark O.

 

Sergio is doing well? Since when?

 

Johnston will find a bag, no problem there, I agree.

 

As for Asbestos and Byrne, Duplantis needs to stop hanging out with strippers and drinking himself silly. He blew a great gig with Furyk and hell even Beemer in his bachelor days couldn't keep up with Steve. As far as I know Duplantis still has a regular bag on tour, although I can't remember who it is.

[dmboak]

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

 

 

JD

 

No doubt in my mind that Wie will win. But all this "stardom" at such a young age will hurt her in the long run. How soon will it be before she wants to do the things that the other college age kids are doing? I know Capriati ran into that issue before she revitalized herself.

[CLEVELAND59]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

exactly how much would you like to bet...?

 

JD

 

Show me exactly where I said that? If you are going to quote me or paraphrase me, do it correctly. Otherwise don't do it at all. Unless you are working under the theory that I don't think she will win this year, which I don't. She has the 84 Lumber on the PGA tour and one LPGA tour start left, and that LPGA event is an elite field event I believe. So in that case you are correct, no way she wins the 84 Lumber or the other event.

 

She'll win eventually, even the blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn, unless she chooses to continue on this path of globetrotting futility. If Hillary Lunke can win a freakin major, certainly MW with her raw talent can win.

[John Dortmunder]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

exactly how much would you like to bet...?

 

JD

 

Show me exactly where I said that? If you are going to quote me or paraphrase me, do it correctly. Otherwise don't do it at all.

 

She'll win eventually, even the blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn, unless she chooses to continue on this path of globetrotting futility.

 

ok, I apologize...

 

...so you do think she'll win.

 

when do you think she'll win? how often?

 

JD

[CLEVELAND59]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

exactly how much would you like to bet...?

 

JD

 

Show me exactly where I said that? If you are going to quote me or paraphrase me, do it correctly. Otherwise don't do it at all.

 

She'll win eventually, even the blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn, unless she chooses to continue on this path of globetrotting futility.

 

ok, I apologize...

 

...so you do think she'll win.

 

when do you think she'll win? how often?

 

JD

 

I think when she wins will depend on when she decides to stop this globetrotting nonsense and just applies to the LPGA tour for membership. The problem is she won't do that. The LPGA commisioner is on record as saying that under the schedule that MW proposes to continue that tour membership for her would be impossible, as she could never be granted that many releases from conflicts, etc. So it sounds like she wants to continue playing men's events both PGA tour and probably the asian tour as well. I don't see how a player who has as much relative inexperience as she does expects to play 7 LPGA tour events a year, all majors or elite events, can expect to win. Seems to me as though she would be best served to play a full season on the LPGA tour, get in contention to win at some lesser events, close the deal once or twice and learn how to win a bit.

[John Dortmunder]

Did she not get along with Fanny?

 

 

Fanny didn't want any part of being on her bag, and they wanted her on it pretty badly. They auditioned her for it earlier this season. And I think the reasons why are pretty obvious. You need a kevlar jumpsuit to be her caddy. Its pretty obvious that the Wie camp has taken the path of scapegoating and excuse making (the blame others approach) and certainly a caddie with as much experience and reputation as Fanny would have no desire to deal with that crap. She tried the young superstar golfer thing after splitting with Faldo when she worked briefly for Sergio. Didn't work then either. No need to come out of her semi retirement to deal with that crap. She carried for Poulter at the Masters, and I think for Mark Hensby one or twice earlier this year when she was over in the U.S. but it seems that she did quite well with Faldo all those years and seems to be enjoying life with no apparent need to caddy regularly.

 

This is a HORRIBLE move for MW. Getting a caddie with Johnston's experience will be difficult at best and maybe even virtually impossible. I think the picture is becoming pretty clear, that its anyone's fault but Michelle's and that is only going to make it more difficult to find a new caddie. I am sure that BJ Wie's over bearing presence can't help matters either. The next victim is probably some poor assistant at Leadbetter's school, who will get pressed into service for the balance of the year and get canned from both gigs at the end when MW fails some more.

 

When you look at that bag from a caddies point of view, even with all the circus crap aside, its not a great gig right now. 10-12 events a year, with a legit chance of cashing in only 7 of them, and cashing at the LPGA purse rate is not exactly great money. Unless their is a crapload of base salary and guaranteed money in the deal, its not a bag worth carrying money wise.

 

bingo.

 

but in general, I'd love to get ahold of some of the stuff you "flop" meisters are smoking, because it must be really really really good.

 

2006: 7 LPGA starts (mostly the top events), 6 top 5 finishes, well over $700,000 in earnings, will get to $1,000,000 in earnigns faster than any pro in LPGA history and at a younger age than any pro in history...

 

...go take a look at Joe Ogilvie's comments on the subject, I suspect he may qualify as an "expert" on the topic.

 

if you all are ever in front of a judge with your freedom hanging in the balance I hope you muster an argument more compelling than this "flop" line of reasoning, because if not you are going to jail - straight to jail - do not pass go.

 

JD

 

Joe must have made those comments after he had a few cocktails, right before he got in his courtesy car and got picked up for DUI. And really, Joe's comments have ZERO to do with her success as a player, only with her impact upon the gate at a PGA tour event and the business side of it all, more than anything else. As a member of the policy board I would expect him to say something along those lines, and nothing less.

 

Her 2006 numbers are interesting on paper, certainly. The most telling stat ZERO. The number of wins. We have been told over and over by her PR and spin machines that this is the best female golfer in the world, most talented, etc. And she has done nothing this year except throw chances to validate that spin in the garbage. She has the potential to be a great player certainly, but it seems the crowning of her as the queen has been far too premature.

 

The dollars and cents of how fast she gets to a mill is a pointless fact. The way purse money has increased across all the tours in the past few years, its not a true measure of anything but a nice piece of bar trivia. 9 years ago Tiger earned a mill and it was sensational, now it takes nearly that amount to even keep your card on the tour. Its a fact that is so far out of context as to be useless.

 

ok, so you say she won't win.

 

I say she will win.

 

exactly how much would you like to bet...?

 

JD

 

Show me exactly where I said that? If you are going to quote me or paraphrase me, do it correctly. Otherwise don't do it at all.

 

She'll win eventually, even the blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn, unless she chooses to continue on this path of globetrotting futility.

 

ok, I apologize...

 

...so you do think she'll win.

 

when do you think she'll win? how often?

 

JD

 

I think when she wins will depend on when she decides to stop this globetrotting nonsense and just applies to the LPGA tour for membership. The problem is she won't do that. The LPGA commisioner is on record as saying that under the schedule that MW proposes to continue that tour membership for her would be impossible, as she could never be granted that many releases from conflicts, etc. So it sounds like she wants to continue playing men's events both PGA tour and probably the asian tour as well. I don't see how a player who has as much relative inexperience as she does expects to play 7 LPGA tour events a year, all majors or elite events, can expect to win. Seems to me as though she would be best served to play a full season on the LPGA tour, get in contention to win at some lesser events, close the deal once or twice and learn how to win a bit.

 

ok, let's forget about how many events she may play in on an annual basis and think about it in terms of aggregate events over time.

 

so, how many more LPGA tourneys do you think she'll have to play in before she wins one? 10? 20? 50?(blind squirrel or otherwise)

 

and then how many more until she wins a second LPGA event? 1? 5? 25?

 

JD

[bpratt]

Does anybody else think Nike will regret its $10 million commitment to her? The original promise--young, talented, brash, long-hitting, can-play-with-the-men--is turning into a much less appealing reality: Young, whiny, not very attractive, can't really play with the men.

 

I'm a marketer, and if I were with Nike, I would have been shooting myself watching her walk down the fairway on a sunny day with her umbrella open, like a parasol. And again when Greg Freakin' Owne said he was glad she withdrew at the Deere because "she needs to learn how to act."

 

Even if she develops into one of the top players on the LPGA, she won't have a tenth of the crossover marketing appeal of Tiger.

[creecool]

I think it was just handled very poorly.Like many others have stated before,caddies come and go,and most of the time it doesn't appear on anybody's radar screen.What is surprising and upsetting about the way this went down was the Wie familiy and their inability to at least tell the caddie personally.Iwouldn't expect Michelle at such a young age to do so,but her father shows very little class,and may be a hinderance to Michelle's growth as a human being,as well as professional golfer.Mayne bj should take a look at his actions,and consider the example he is setting for his daughter.

[dmboak]

Does anybody else think Nike will regret its $10 million commitment to her? The original promise--young, talented, brash, long-hitting, can-play-with-the-men--is turning into a much less appealing reality: Young, whiny, not very attractive, can't really play with the men.

Young and whiny go hand in hand. And yeah, she can play with the guys if she ever learned how to putt. So I can't see Nike regretting their decision at all to sign her.

[Asleep]

Don't know who CLEVELAND59 is, but the he seems to know his stuff.

 

Thanks for the insight.

[samm980]

Does anybody else think Nike will regret its $10 million commitment to her? The original promise--young, talented, brash, long-hitting, can-play-with-the-men--is turning into a much less appealing reality: Young, whiny, not very attractive, can't really play with the men.

Young and whiny go hand in hand. And yeah, she can play with the guys if she ever learned how to putt. So I can't see Nike regretting their decision at all to sign her.

 

 

Derek what's going to happen first?

 

A. She learns to putt

B. People stop being jealous of her

[dmboak]

Derek what's going to happen first?

 

A. She learns to putt

B. People stop being jealous of her

 

She will learn how to putt first. I don't think a lot of it is jealousy. A lot of it is her own father and the way he conducts himself when she's playing. I know a lot of people who brag about their kids, you don't have to go further than Earl Woods with that...but when they're running around in the gallery celebrating every shot like MJ did after the Bulls beat the Cavs in the playoffs, a lot of people aren't going to root for her...not because they don't like her, because they don't like her entourage. I think she is fine. Sure, she doesn't have a lot of GREAT social skills and she's not as good looking as Jessica Alba. But she's 16 and will blossom into a uber star!!!

[MGB]

I think it's too soon to judge whether her career's a flop or not. It's true she hasn't won anything else, but the prospects of a 16-year old with her potential are fodder for media everywhere. This promotes microanalysis of every facet of her life, not to mention her golf game. She's not even old enough to be a full time member of the LPGA. I think we need to understand this phenomena and separate the hype from reality and give her a little time. I think we're all in for a very special treat when she comes of age.

[samm980]

Derek what's going to happen first?

 

A. She learns to putt

B. People stop being jealous of her

 

She will learn how to putt first. I don't think a lot of it is jealousy. A lot of it is her own father and the way he conducts himself when she's playing. I know a lot of people who brag about their kids, you don't have to go further than Earl Woods with that...but when they're running around in the gallery celebrating every shot like MJ did after the Bulls beat the Cavs in the playoffs, a lot of people aren't going to root for her...not because they don't like her, because they don't like her entourage. I think she is fine. Sure, she doesn't have a lot of GREAT social skills and she's not as good looking as Jessica Alba. But she's 16 and will blossom into a uber star!!!

 

 

I agree that much of the issue is her father. I think the same can be said for Venus and Serena Williams, let's face it Richard Williams is and was a Grade-A jerk-off. In a few years once she develops her game a bit more she will be so much better than the rest of those women it will be scary.

 

Heck I look at her and think she and Sergio are very much in the same boat right now. Sergio is 25? and burst on the scene about 19 or so once he learns to not let the little things bother him he will be something else.

 

I wonder how all of us would react at that age if given that kind of money to play golf?

[John Dortmunder]

Derek what's going to happen first?

 

A. She learns to putt

B. People stop being jealous of her

 

She will learn how to putt first. I don't think a lot of it is jealousy. A lot of it is her own father and the way he conducts himself when she's playing. I know a lot of people who brag about their kids, you don't have to go further than Earl Woods with that...but when they're running around in the gallery celebrating every shot like MJ did after the Bulls beat the Cavs in the playoffs, a lot of people aren't going to root for her...not because they don't like her, because they don't like her entourage. I think she is fine. Sure, she doesn't have a lot of GREAT social skills and she's not as good looking as Jessica Alba. But she's 16 and will blossom into a uber star!!!

 

 

I agree that much of the issue is her father. I think the same can be said for Venus and Serena Williams, let's face it Richard Williams is and was a Grade-A jerk-off. In a few years once she develops her game a bit more she will be so much better than the rest of those women it will be scary.

 

Heck I look at her and think she and Sergio are very much in the same boat right now. Sergio is 25? and burst on the scene about 19 or so once he learns to not let the little things bother him he will be something else.

 

I wonder how all of us would react at that age if given that kind of money to play golf?

 

early on a lot of people thought Earl Woods was a jerk, turns out he was a genuis (but still irritated a lot of people).

 

early on people also thought that paying Tiger a $40mm contract to start was ludicrous and questioned Phil Knight's sanity, that turned out to be a masterstroke as well.

 

only time will tell but I suspect Phil Knight will again emerge in shining armor, and M. Wie will put up a track record approaching that of Annika Sorenstam.

 

JD

[leeux]

The sheer length of this thread and the emotional debate about this girl make it very clear that many may not like her and others may think is the next big thing after Tiger but one thing is for sure:

 

Nobody is indifferent about her.

 

Controversy is part of the game. I was not much of a fan of Pressel's brahsness or Craemer's pinkness but the LPGA has obviously arrived. Even the hardcore golf nuts in this forum talk about it.

 

I love it. I think she will do fine and in the process enrage many and dazzle most.

[dmboak]

early on a lot of people thought Earl Woods was a jerk, turns out he was a genuis (but still irritated a lot of people).

 

Earl Woods didn't do Irish Jigs every time Tiger stuck one close. BJ makes an assclown out of himself. Other than that, I have zero problem with Wie and what she's poised to accomplish.

[abewley]

i was completely shocked.. when i heard this this morning

 

so daddy back on the bag... that was successfull before... lol!!

[samm980]

Derek what's going to happen first?

 

A. She learns to putt

B. People stop being jealous of her

 

She will learn how to putt first. I don't think a lot of it is jealousy. A lot of it is her own father and the way he conducts himself when she's playing. I know a lot of people who brag about their kids, you don't have to go further than Earl Woods with that...but when they're running around in the gallery celebrating every shot like MJ did after the Bulls beat the Cavs in the playoffs, a lot of people aren't going to root for her...not because they don't like her, because they don't like her entourage. I think she is fine. Sure, she doesn't have a lot of GREAT social skills and she's not as good looking as Jessica Alba. But she's 16 and will blossom into a uber star!!!

 

 

I agree that much of the issue is her father. I think the same can be said for Venus and Serena Williams, let's face it Richard Williams is and was a Grade-A jerk-off. In a few years once she develops her game a bit more she will be so much better than the rest of those women it will be scary.

 

Heck I look at her and think she and Sergio are very much in the same boat right now. Sergio is 25? and burst on the scene about 19 or so once he learns to not let the little things bother him he will be something else.

 

I wonder how all of us would react at that age if given that kind of money to play golf?

 

early on a lot of people thought Earl Woods was a jerk, turns out he was a genuis (but still irritated a lot of people).

 

early on people also thought that paying Tiger a $40mm contract to start was ludicrous and questioned Phil Knight's sanity, that turned out to be a masterstroke as well.

 

only time will tell but I suspect Phil Knight will again emerge in shining armor, and M. Wie will put up a track record approaching that of Annika Sorenstam.

 

JD

 

 

I had a conversation once with a cousin who was a Green Beret and he looked at Earl Woods not as a jerk or a gloating father but the typical strong minded, stubborn, tough as nails Green Beret. After that conversation I always viewed him in a little different light.

[Leftystar]

You guys need to look at what a flop is. Michelle has had several top five finishes in majors and is seldom out of contention. It is silly to call her a flop. She has only been a professional for a few months...

 

But in the end, it's all measured in wins

 

She has 0 professional wins.

 

And it isn't her caddy that's killing her.

 

On a side note, have you guys noticed that most of Ledbeader's students seem to be on the skids?

 

Responding to the side note - Ledbeader is a total FLOP. All his students are having a rough time, why? because he turns all his students into total robots - especially the ones that start with Ledbeader at an early age (CHIII).

I would say that his best students at the moment are Ernie & Poulter - 0 wins for Ledbeader = FLOP

 

Just my opinion - I haven't research this one, I'm going from memory so I could be3 wrong. Either way, this is not a good time to be a ledbeader student.

[John Dortmunder]

(A.) The sheer length of this thread and the emotional debate about this girl make it very clear that many may not like her and others may think is the next big thing after Tiger but one thing is for sure:

 

(B.) Nobody is indifferent about her.

 

(C.) Controversy is part of the game. I was not much of a fan of Pressel's brahsness or Craemer's pinkness but the LPGA has obviously arrived. Even the hardcore golf nuts in this forum talk about it.

 

(D.) I love it. I think she will do fine and in the process enrage many and dazzle most.

 

I agree on A., B., most of C., all of D.

 

I just wish I could get someone to actually make a bet on:

- she will win

- or she won't win

- or she'll only win X number of events

- etc...

 

soooo much big/aggressive talk, but nobody wants to back it up with a wager...

 

JD

[Asleep]

...soooo much big/aggressive talk, but nobody wants to back it up with a wager...JD

There are plenty of gambling websites on the internet, JD......this is not one of them.

[CLEVELAND59]

(A.) The sheer length of this thread and the emotional debate about this girl make it very clear that many may not like her and others may think is the next big thing after Tiger but one thing is for sure:

 

(B.) Nobody is indifferent about her.

 

(C.) Controversy is part of the game. I was not much of a fan of Pressel's brahsness or Craemer's pinkness but the LPGA has obviously arrived. Even the hardcore golf nuts in this forum talk about it.

 

(D.) I love it. I think she will do fine and in the process enrage many and dazzle most.

 

I agree on A., B., most of C., all of D.

 

I just wish I could get someone to actually make a bet on:

- she will win

- or she won't win

- or she'll only win X number of events

- etc...

 

soooo much big/aggressive talk, but nobody wants to back it up with a wager...

 

JD

 

Simply because one does not wager on an opinion or belief does not render that said opinion or belief invalid.

Often its those who are insecure in their own beliefs that feel the need to try to wager on them, in a futile attempt to create a false sense of self confidence. Or often the tactic is used as a tool to attempt to stife discussion when the person offering the wager has run out of ammunition or has become so hopelessly lost in their argument they have reached their last resort.

 

You humor me with your "soooo much big/aggressive talk" comment directed at others when in fact you are the one daring others to wager, accusing them of not backing up their comments, beliefs, etc. If anyone is being a big, loud talker here, its you sir.

 

You asked of me how many events I thought it would take for MW to win, and I can't tell you that, it honestly depends on how she approaches next year. If she applies for and accepts LPGA tour membership, she will win early next year. If she continues this joke of a schedule, it may be 2008 before we see her on top of the leaderboard at the end of an event.