Pine Valley

[Simp]

[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1301000879' post='3085065']
I live about three minutes from Mercer Oaks and play there a couple/few times a week - lol, didn't realize that Mercer Oaks was recruiting ringers for the team matches
[/quote]

I can honestly say that we never recruited the 2 or 3 years I played. It started out as trying to get 1 team together from the players that were "regulars" at MO, and then we realized that we had enough players to make a second team, so off we went! We all took pride in knowing that we were truly a public county course team.

[luxman]

[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1301000879' post='3085065']
I live about three minutes from Mercer Oaks and play there a couple/few times a week - lol, didn't realize that Mercer Oaks was recruiting ringers for the team matches

I'm also a member at Philly Cricket and (after reading this thread) might look to join one of the GAP teams there; in their defense (PCC's), the "varsity" (can't recall what the top GAP team is called) GAP team doesn't have many of the best players at the club - I'm not sure if that's the case with most private clubs, but PCC's team is certainly not the strongest team that they can field - there's some ballers there, for sure.

Ever since Militia Hill opened and the the new wave of members came in, there've been a TON of 30-40 year old guys who have some serious game joining.
[/quote]

For some 30-40 year old guys with kids it could be that they aren't playing because of the time commitment involved. Especially if you have an away match in NJ or the Scranton area you are pretty much gone for the entire day. This will be reduced a little bit as they are talking about doing away with the "dinner" afterwards, but it's still a long day.

Another reason why some teams don't always have their top guys is if some of those guys are in college and play college golf as they cannot play GAP matches until their college season is over (NCAA regulation, not GAP).

[Mainlinegolfer]

[quote name='luxman' timestamp='1301067145' post='3087198']
[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1301000879' post='3085065']
I live about three minutes from Mercer Oaks and play there a couple/few times a week - lol, didn't realize that Mercer Oaks was recruiting ringers for the team matches

I'm also a member at Philly Cricket and (after reading this thread) might look to join one of the GAP teams there; in their defense (PCC's), the "varsity" (can't recall what the top GAP team is called) GAP team doesn't have many of the best players at the club - I'm not sure if that's the case with most private clubs, but PCC's team is certainly not the strongest team that they can field - there's some ballers there, for sure.

Ever since Militia Hill opened and the the new wave of members came in, there've been a TON of 30-40 year old guys who have some serious game joining.
[/quote]

For some 30-40 year old guys with kids it could be that they aren't playing because of the time commitment involved. Especially if you have an away match in NJ or the Scranton area you are pretty much gone for the entire day. This will be reduced a little bit as they are talking about doing away with the "dinner" afterwards, but it's still a long day.

Another reason why some teams don't always have their top guys is if some of those guys are in college and play college golf as they cannot play GAP matches until their college season is over (NCAA regulation, not GAP).
[/quote]

Having done it, I certainly know first-hand that traveling to Scranton or the Jersey shore from the Philly suburbs, followed by a full meal, takes a full day. I also was a team captain and with family, college, and work issues, it was like herding cats to get everyone committed to play, especially if the match was a long drive and/or at a not-great course.

For 2011 GAP has done a couple of things to speed up play and make the time demands less. The post-match sit-down meal is eliminated and the matches will now be standard Nassau scoring (no "extra" 1/4 points for each hole won (i.e. you don't have to play 18 holes and there is no more getting extra points for a blowout win).

[Simp]

That should help speed up play and be a little easier on the wallet as well. I like it.

[theebdk]

[quote name='adam62482' timestamp='1300750670' post='3075546']
I am headed down to Southern NJ on Wednesday to do something for work that is 10 minutes away from Pine Valley.
Now I know Pine Valley is gated but I wonder if it is worth driving past just to see the grounds of what is ranked as a top 3 golf course in the world.
[/quote]


I am going to try and go to the Crump cup this year. Amatuer tournament and the public is invited to watch. Recall it is in September each year so perhaps you can find a reason to re-visit for work?

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='Mainlinegolfer' timestamp='1301069245' post='3087314']
[quote name='luxman' timestamp='1301067145' post='3087198']
[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1301000879' post='3085065']
I live about three minutes from Mercer Oaks and play there a couple/few times a week - lol, didn't realize that Mercer Oaks was recruiting ringers for the team matches

I'm also a member at Philly Cricket and (after reading this thread) might look to join one of the GAP teams there; in their defense (PCC's), the "varsity" (can't recall what the top GAP team is called) GAP team doesn't have many of the best players at the club - I'm not sure if that's the case with most private clubs, but PCC's team is certainly not the strongest team that they can field - there's some ballers there, for sure.

Ever since Militia Hill opened and the the new wave of members came in, there've been a TON of 30-40 year old guys who have some serious game joining.
[/quote]

For some 30-40 year old guys with kids it could be that they aren't playing because of the time commitment involved. Especially if you have an away match in NJ or the Scranton area you are pretty much gone for the entire day. This will be reduced a little bit as they are talking about doing away with the "dinner" afterwards, but it's still a long day.

Another reason why some teams don't always have their top guys is if some of those guys are in college and play college golf as they cannot play GAP matches until their college season is over (NCAA regulation, not GAP).
[/quote]

Having done it, I certainly know first-hand that traveling to Scranton or the Jersey shore from the Philly suburbs, followed by a full meal, takes a full day. I also was a team captain and with family, college, and work issues, it was like herding cats to get everyone committed to play, especially if the match was a long drive and/or at a not-great course.

For 2011 GAP has done a couple of things to speed up play and make the time demands less. The post-match sit-down meal is eliminated and the matches will now be standard Nassau scoring (no "extra" 1/4 points for each hole won (i.e. you don't have to play 18 holes and there is no more getting extra points for a blowout win).
[/quote]
I would rather see the number of clubs paired down and keep the post-match sit downs in place. To be honest, I get enough of the strict tournament play though NJSGA/GAP/MGA events. The camaraderie is an important element to me.

[lacosteguy]

[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300981496' post='3084010']
[quote name='Marrrk' timestamp='1300981190' post='3083995']
[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300980713' post='3083962']
[quote name='Marrrk' timestamp='1300980170' post='3083932']
[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300978018' post='3083830']
There is also a rumor that years ago Donald Trump flew in there on his helicopter and when he landed someone from the course, a manager or pro, came out and told him to leave that they didn't want his kind there. It's a funny rumor and I never knew weather to believe it of not, but I wouldn't put it past them to do that. But then he buys the old Pine Hill right next door and tries to make it better.....coincidence???????
[/quote]

i dont know about the story but i do know the Pine Hill (Trump Philadelphia) is not all thaaaaaaat. it's a very nice, mountainside style course. but the layout, while dramatic, is nothing terribly special except for a couple of the philly-skyline views. that's just my opinion though. probably my least favorite style of course is tree-lined, mountainside courses. i had more fun on the old ski hill that used to be on that land than i did on the course.

my best PV story, aside from declining a couple invites to play because i'm the world's biggest imbecile, is this:

a week after my father played it once he went back to exchange a shirt he bought. he brought me with him. i already knew all about how important PV was. even at that age, i couldnt believe how "not-luxurious" the houses and surroundings were. as we got closer we were pulled over by the police, who wanted to know what we were doing. remember, this was a public road, we were still a bit away from the course entrance. my pops explained and they "escorted" us to the clubhouse. this is probably around 1986-87. i remember being amazed by how modest and low-key the clubhouse and everything else was. like an old, dark cabin with small rooms and low ceilings. the pro-shop seemed like a library in a main-line mansion: all dark mahogany and claustrophobic. (this could all be different now).

my dad bought me a hot pink PV polo (hot pink, so ahead of my time!) a red PV hat (complete with all the expected mid-80's old man frills and trim and dangles) and a navy blue, thick as all heck, gold etched, padded bag strap cover (good times indeed). and that's about all i remember. anyway, i'm not exactly sure of the reason for the intense extra security but i always just assumed some ex-President, Gerald Ford maybe, was there playing with Arnold Palmer.
[/quote]

That is possible cause alot of people like ex presidents play there. Another story I heard was true is they always ask the #1 player in the world to play there. At least I heard they invited Tiger every year he was #1. They asked Nicklaus to play years ago and he came with his wife. They wouldn't let her in the clubhouse. He played anyway...LOL.



[/quote]

and i'm pretty sure tiger hasn't played it yet, right? back in the day day (2002ish) i used to send the same question over and over again to Tiger's website for his Q&A: have you played PV yet and what did you think? never got an answer. makes sense since he hasn't played it (from what i've heard).
[/quote]


From what I heard, no he never played it......
[/quote]



Yes he has. The caddies I had the two times I have played, was naming all the people (golfers/presidents etc..) that have played...and stories for each. Think that is the best part of playing the course, the stories and the actual info the Caddies will share with you. I played 1 day after President Bush played, telling us the stories of the secret service etc.., what golfers were cheap, which ones were slow, fast etc.. They will tell you everything if you ask

[Marrrk]

[quote name='lacosteguy' timestamp='1301979349' post='3120915']
[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300981496' post='3084010']
[quote name='Marrrk' timestamp='1300981190' post='3083995']
[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300980713' post='3083962']
[quote name='Marrrk' timestamp='1300980170' post='3083932']
[quote name='jim2722' timestamp='1300978018' post='3083830']
There is also a rumor that years ago Donald Trump flew in there on his helicopter and when he landed someone from the course, a manager or pro, came out and told him to leave that they didn't want his kind there. It's a funny rumor and I never knew weather to believe it of not, but I wouldn't put it past them to do that. But then he buys the old Pine Hill right next door and tries to make it better.....coincidence???????
[/quote]

i dont know about the story but i do know the Pine Hill (Trump Philadelphia) is not all thaaaaaaat. it's a very nice, mountainside style course. but the layout, while dramatic, is nothing terribly special except for a couple of the philly-skyline views. that's just my opinion though. probably my least favorite style of course is tree-lined, mountainside courses. i had more fun on the old ski hill that used to be on that land than i did on the course.

my best PV story, aside from declining a couple invites to play because i'm the world's biggest imbecile, is this:

a week after my father played it once he went back to exchange a shirt he bought. he brought me with him. i already knew all about how important PV was. even at that age, i couldnt believe how "not-luxurious" the houses and surroundings were. as we got closer we were pulled over by the police, who wanted to know what we were doing. remember, this was a public road, we were still a bit away from the course entrance. my pops explained and they "escorted" us to the clubhouse. this is probably around 1986-87. i remember being amazed by how modest and low-key the clubhouse and everything else was. like an old, dark cabin with small rooms and low ceilings. the pro-shop seemed like a library in a main-line mansion: all dark mahogany and claustrophobic. (this could all be different now).

my dad bought me a hot pink PV polo (hot pink, so ahead of my time!) a red PV hat (complete with all the expected mid-80's old man frills and trim and dangles) and a navy blue, thick as all heck, gold etched, padded bag strap cover (good times indeed). and that's about all i remember. anyway, i'm not exactly sure of the reason for the intense extra security but i always just assumed some ex-President, Gerald Ford maybe, was there playing with Arnold Palmer.
[/quote]

That is possible cause alot of people like ex presidents play there. Another story I heard was true is they always ask the #1 player in the world to play there. At least I heard they invited Tiger every year he was #1. They asked Nicklaus to play years ago and he came with his wife. They wouldn't let her in the clubhouse. He played anyway...LOL.



[/quote]

and i'm pretty sure tiger hasn't played it yet, right? back in the day day (2002ish) i used to send the same question over and over again to Tiger's website for his Q&A: have you played PV yet and what did you think? never got an answer. makes sense since he hasn't played it (from what i've heard).
[/quote]


From what I heard, no he never played it......
[/quote]



Yes he has. The caddies I had the two times I have played, was naming all the people (golfers/presidents etc..) that have played...and stories for each. Think that is the best part of playing the course, the stories and the actual info the Caddies will share with you. I played 1 day after President Bush played, telling us the stories of the secret service etc.., what golfers were cheap, which ones were slow, fast etc.. They will tell you everything if you ask
[/quote]

so what were the Tiger stories and when did he play? must have been recently because as of July 2009 he hadn't:

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1908667,00.html

and a quote from 2007:

[color=#030A03][size=4][i]“Ever been to [b]Merion[/b]?” he was asked.[/i][/size][/color][color=#030A03][size=4]

[i]“Never,” Woods replied, and he could see where this conversation was headed. “I’ve never even been to [b]Pine Valley[/b]or [b]Seminole[/b].”[/i][/size][/color]

[luxman]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1301895893' post='3116414']
[b]I would rather see the number of clubs paired down [/b]and keep the post-match sit downs in place. To be honest, I get enough of the strict tournament play though NJSGA/GAP/MGA events. The camaraderie is an important element to me.
[/quote]

That absolutely isn't going to happen. GAP is a business and adding more clubs increases revenue.

We'll just agree to disagree on the sit-downs. Personally I don't need a 3 course steak dinner at 2:00 in the afternoon and am fine with a keg of beer and appetizers. I don't think you lose any camaraderie by doing that.

[italianstallion]

I met with one of my professors for help with my thesis today, and he's on his way to play Pine Valley this week. I flat out told him I was officially the most jealous person in the world.

[muzz]

[quote name='luxman' timestamp='1302186589' post='3129456']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1301895893' post='3116414']
[b]I would rather see the number of clubs paired down [/b]and keep the post-match sit downs in place. To be honest, I get enough of the strict tournament play though NJSGA/GAP/MGA events. The camaraderie is an important element to me.
[/quote]

That absolutely isn't going to happen. GAP is a business and adding more clubs increases revenue.

We'll just agree to disagree on the sit-downs. Personally I don't need a 3 course steak dinner at 2:00 in the afternoon and am fine with a keg of beer and appetizers. I don't think you lose any camaraderie by doing that.
[/quote]

I'm all for the keg of beer and appetizers...especially if I'm allowed to wear jeans and flip flops!!

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='luxman' timestamp='1302186589' post='3129456']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1301895893' post='3116414']
[b]I would rather see the number of clubs paired down [/b]and keep the post-match sit downs in place. To be honest, I get enough of the strict tournament play though NJSGA/GAP/MGA events. The camaraderie is an important element to me.
[/quote]

That absolutely isn't going to happen. GAP is a business and adding more clubs increases revenue.

We'll just agree to disagree on the sit-downs. Personally I don't need a 3 course steak dinner at 2:00 in the afternoon and am fine with a keg of beer and appetizers. I don't think you lose any camaraderie by doing that.
[/quote]
A keg and appetizers absolutely qualifies as a sit-down to me. I thought they were doing away with post-round festivities altogether. My apologies.

[DigDugDig]

[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[b] [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/104278-adam62482/"]adam62482[/url], not sure what kind of car you drive, but pretend you are the guest of a member. Try to get as far in as you can. You are the guest of "Al Smith" or whatever name you can use to get yourself past the guard. Get as deep as you can. It's not often that a "peasant" has an opportunity to get near Pine Valley. Do what you must go get in or around the course. Pine Valley is the Holy Grail (outside of Augusta National) of golf courses. Get creative, man. [/b]
[/size][/color]

[Mainlinegolfer]

[quote name='luxman' timestamp='1302186589' post='3129456']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1301895893' post='3116414']
[b]I would rather see the number of clubs paired down [/b]and keep the post-match sit downs in place. To be honest, I get enough of the strict tournament play though NJSGA/GAP/MGA events. The camaraderie is an important element to me.
[/quote]

That absolutely isn't going to happen. GAP is a business and adding more clubs increases revenue.

We'll just agree to disagree on the sit-downs. Personally I don't need a 3 course steak dinner at 2:00 in the afternoon and am fine with a keg of beer and appetizers. I don't think you lose any camaraderie by doing that.
[/quote]
I'm quite sure GAP's decision to change the format of team matches and eliminate the mid-afternoon "dinner" had everything to do with responding to its constituency's desire to speed up pace of play and shorten the time away from family and business obligations. As with the USGA, GAP's role is to grow the game of golf and that's done by increasing the number of clubs and number of participants. I completely agree that no camaraderie is lost by just having beer/wine and appetizers (and guys may not look at their watches and feel quite as guilty being away all day).

[Simp]

Had a PV caddie tell me how I could almost certainly get on and play the course at least once a year, and it's not playing in the Crump Cup.

[luxman]

[quote name='Mainlinegolfer' timestamp='1302231922' post='3131732']
I'm quite sure GAP's decision to change the format of team matches and eliminate the mid-afternoon "dinner" had everything to do with responding to its constituency's desire to speed up pace of play and shorten the time away from family and business obligations. As with the USGA, GAP's role is to grow the game of golf and that's done by increasing the number of clubs and number of participants. I completely agree that no camaraderie is lost by just having beer/wine and appetizers (and guys may not look at their watches and feel quite as guilty being away all day).
[/quote]

I think the decision is two-fold.

The first part you are spot on. Taking a 3 course post-round meal out of the picture, it's a long day as it is (especially for guys that normally play first thing in the morning so that they have the rest of the day to spend with the family). If you are playing away it's even longer. This week, for example, I'm playing at Tavistock at 10:00. I'll leave the house around 8, won't finish my round until 2:30 (at the earliest). Add a 3 course meal to that and it's well over another hour before I head to the car. With a keg of beer and apps it's definitely under an hour.

I think the other part is that the dinners across clubs were not equal. One week I would go to a club and it would be a three-course dinner. The next week it would be ordering a sandwich off the menu. For away guys to shell out $65 so that the visiting team can enjoy a steak dinner isn't quite fair if they end up eating sandwiches.

[luxman]

My apologies. I will create a new thread for all things Philadelphia area golf in the Mid-Atlantic section.

[EastPhillyReppin]

[quote name='Simp' timestamp='1300846431' post='3079436']
[quote name='SurfDuffer' timestamp='1300837888' post='3078938']
I live about 45 minutes away and have done the drive but never got past the guard house. I hope to play there someday if our golf association ever holds an event there. Pine Vally is a member of our golf association so we compete against their members in local team tornaments.
[/quote]

You'd better hope you're in tight with the team captain(s) then. The team I played on (Mercer Oaks) played them last year and everyone knew who was going as soon as the schedule came out. Pissed a lot of guys off.
[/quote]

Pine Valley does not have a GAP Team.


Nice try

[Simp]

[quote name='EastPhillyReppin' timestamp='1302292611' post='3133445']
[quote name='Simp' timestamp='1300846431' post='3079436']
[quote name='SurfDuffer' timestamp='1300837888' post='3078938']
I live about 45 minutes away and have done the drive but never got past the guard house. I hope to play there someday if our golf association ever holds an event there. Pine Vally is a member of our golf association so we compete against their members in local team tornaments.
[/quote]

You'd better hope you're in tight with the team captain(s) then. The team I played on (Mercer Oaks) played them last year and everyone knew who was going as soon as the schedule came out. Pissed a lot of guys off.
[/quote]

Pine Valley does not have a GAP Team.


Nice try
[/quote]

Yeah, I dropped the ball on that one. Received some bad info from a friend regarding this and didn't do my homework.

[bananapel]

[quote name='Simp' timestamp='1302268708' post='3132505']
Had a PV caddie tell me how I could almost certainly get on and play the course at least once a year, and it's not playing in the Crump Cup.
[/quote]

I know this way

[HLore]

[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1302314004' post='3134558']
[quote name='Simp' timestamp='1302268708' post='3132505']
Had a PV caddie tell me how I could almost certainly get on and play the course at least once a year, and it's not playing in the Crump Cup.
[/quote]

I know this way
[/quote]
Please share? I know caddies there, that caddy just to play Pine Valley twice a year. One guy is a chiropractor

[Mr ouimet]

Your best bet is to attend the crump cup in early October. It cost $20 to park your car at Clemington park and a bus will shuttle you to the course. No tickets are required to enter the course and you can walk the entire thing. You can walk te fairways and even walk on the greens. I have done this 3 years in a row and think it is one of the coolest golf experiences you will ever get to enjoy. Not much golf to watch however because there is only 2 players left in the field on the day it is open to the public. It is absolutly a must see golf course.