State of the Game of Golf

[Bella Woods]

Should Golf Bifarcate?

I have been thinking about the above subject for some time now and thought I
would throw it out there and see what people think.

Specifically, several instances have occurred recently that make me wonder what
is going to happen to the game in the future (near future).

In the process of testing some clubs on a trackman recently, the owner of the shop
brought over an employee for me to watch hit a few shots with my driver and 4
iron. Long story short - On average 125 swing speed, 175-180 ball speed, 301 to
320 carry and 330-340 total distance with the driver. With the 4 iron - 115 swing speed,
250-255 carry and 270 on average total distance.

In addition, Bella recently played (if you call it that) in a local high level amateur
tournament here in the Detroit area. Since I played less than stellar, I was able to
watch the last seven or eight groups (the leaders) tee off on 1 when I was already
done playing. One after another young (none were all that big and all probably in their
early 20s) player was bombing the ball off the first tee. I know for a fact that one of the
hit their drive 379 (with an estimated 340 carry) and had a flip sand wedge into the par 5.
To hit the ball that far in the air he must have been swinging the club 130 miles an hour.

My point is this, these young guys (and all the ones around just like them) are going to make
Bubba Watson and J.B. Holmes look like average Joes in no time at all. What golf course
around is going to hold them? I am not a short hitter (I can still get it out there around 300
every now and then), but they can hit irons farther than my driver. I know I am not getting any
younger but it looks to me that it could get out of hand, and soon.

I am starting to wonder if golf should (or will in the near future) bifarcate. Let the group above
(and the pros?) have no equipment limits and just let technology go as far as it does with no
rules. And for the rest of us, play golf as it has been played for many years on normal golf
courses (whether it be classic persimmon or hickory etc).

Anybody have a view on it?

[Pondy]

[b]Bifurcation[/b] means the splitting of a main body into two parts. Wikipedia

[Pondy]

I was always 'hands off' on the equipment and limitations.

[Bella Woods]

[quote name='Pondy' timestamp='1310338517' post='3380120']
[b]Bifurcation[/b] means the splitting of a main body into two parts. Wikipedia
[/quote]

Looks like I spelled it wrong, but yes - split golf up (with rules and without).

[SpinMill75]

I don't want to get into the numbers that you posted......

I'm only going to say that if you research the PGA Tour averages, you'll see fewer pros hitting drives 300+ yards.

So, in answer to your question, I wouldn't worry about the future of the game.

-spin

[Bella Woods]

[quote name='Pondy' timestamp='1310338632' post='3380123']
I was always 'hands off' on the equipment and limitations.
[/quote]

So was I, but I think things have changed to the extent that is that possible
anymore?

[Maxwell]

[b][size="2"][url="http://www.augusta.com/stories/040906/mas_76766.shtml"][size="2"]Golf technology [/size][/url]has scary impact, and that's no myth

A number of years ago, I read that Jack Nicklaus had done some soul searching regarding technology and the game of golf. I went looking for the article and attached the link to the title of the article above.
My own personal opinion is that," if its good for the game - it will stay. If it's not good for the game - it won't." I know that sounds simplistic but I beleive it's true. Golfers play the game for different reasons. Golf club manufacturers spend millions extrapulating data from polls, surveys and personal interviews to find out why golfers play the game and keep coming back to the game. It has become apparent to me, having played this game for a while that alot of golfers love to hit the ball far. After a while though, they realize that hitting it far is only a small part of the game. Then, they start working on the direction and all of a sudden the shaft flex changes, the grip size and composition changes, the club head speed slows down and the ball construction, surface material and compression change too! I sometimes wonder if "hitting it far" is kinda like "setting the hook"? Donna has set the hook with me - have to go and pick her up from BINGO!
Max [/size][/b]

[msupl]

I think the state of the economy is a bigger threat to the game as opposed to the driver and golf ball getting out of control. A lot of our higher paying jobs are getting shipped over seas or eliminated all together so the country clubs will see a decline in membership, and then on the opposite end of the game, the municipal courses will see budget cutting from local governments having to cut back so you will either see prices going up or courses closing all together.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic, I've been reading too many CNBC articles the last few days.

[jrich99]

I would say to do it the other way around. Let the hacks have all the tech they want. Make the big boys play with "real" equipment. Scale back the ball, recap driver CC's at 300 or so instead of 460, limit COR, place a max length on a driver, etc. The cream of the crop would be more dominant with equipment that rewards good players. Hacks will be hacks, regardless.

[Staffer]

Restrict the ball and nothing else.

[Bella Woods]

[quote name='SpinMill75' timestamp='1310338745' post='3380130']<br />I don't want to get into the numbers that you posted......<br /><br />I'm only going to say that if you research the PGA Tour averages, you'll see fewer pros hitting drives 300+ yards.  <br /><br />So, in answer to your question, I wouldn't worry about the future of the game.<br /><br />-spin<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

SpinMill45:

Please get into the numbers that I posted, they represent the problem in my opinion.

The PGA tour (and other "tours") are a very, very small part of the game of golf, and do
not even factor into what I was talking about in general. You do not have to be a pro
golfer to take advantage of the technological "boom" with golf equipment, only have
a high swing speed and a decent game/swing.

My point is that technology has overtaken the game of golf, in my opinion, to the detriment
of the game. I think there is going to be an further explosion in yardages golfers hit the
ball (woods and irons) in the very near future. I have noticed the same thing in my own game,
for instance, I can it a 7 iron more than 190 yards if I need to, a 7 iron used to be a 150 to
160 club not that long ago. And I am 55 years old.

The guys I am talking about are for the most part high school and college
kids who will never make it to the "pros".

Why have drives increased by 75 to 100 yards or more? Why have golf courses had to add (if
they have the land to do so) 500 to 1,000 yards in length to hold a "golf tournament"?

Why is nobody doing anything about it? The USGA is in a tough position here in my opinion.

[TimV]

[quote name='jrich99' timestamp='1310617993' post='3389945']
I would say to do it the other way around. Let the hacks have all the tech they want. Make the big boys play with "real" equipment. Scale back the ball, recap driver CC's at 300 or so instead of 460, limit COR, place a max length on a driver, etc. The cream of the crop would be more dominant with equipment that rewards good players. Hacks will be hacks, regardless.
[/quote]

This makes the most sense to me by far.
But to be honest most Pros would probably beat me playing with a rusty rake and a shovel.

[majic]

One thing to keep in mind is the "high tech" helps the better ball striker more then it does those that cannot hit it in the screws. The COR helps those that hit it in the sweet spot then if you just come close. This has always been the case. To make the game reward the better ball strikers we need to resize the drivers and the ball has to come back. No other Major Sport does not have a tournament ball spec. We need a ball spec. Maybe the Masters will do it first as they don't have much more ground left to lengthen the course.

[tembolo1284]

How about lower COR a bit?

[stage1350]

You need a multi-pronged attack if you want to reign in this problem. Some solutions are very expensive. Others, surprisingly cheap.

First of all, Drive cc size, COR, and total length are capped. The OEMs are pushing 47" on a 48" maximum. You won't see much more in the future from equipment. The bigger issue is the ability to create sub 50g (and sub 40g) shafts that will take the punishment of a PGA/LDA swing. Even 15 years ago, many 60g shafts were so brittle and thin walled that breakage prohibited them from gaining widespread acceptance. Not anymore. Solution: Put a weight MINIMUM in place. 320g would equate to a 205g head, 65g shaft, and 50g grip. This will keep the lighter/longer crowd in check.

Course design is also a problem. As a good friend of mine likes to say. You can reign in a lot of distance on Tour with a few turns of a 5 dollar box wrench. Water the fairways and grow them longer, as well as the rough. They get 50 yards of roll because they are hitting on a parking lot. Most of us don't get that roll on munis because they have water the fairways. When the professionals have to hit 3-4 more clubs into the green, you will see scores return to normal.

You can also quit giving them perfectly manicured courses. Give the Tour unraked, hardpacked, concrete bunkers like the public sees. Give them a bumpier putting surface similar to what Palmer and Nicklaus played on in the '60s. See how they putt then. Saves cost on maintenance too.

Quit having courses clear trees. The toughest courses I know are some of the oldest in the area. The old growth trees punish you if you get out of the fairway and leave little room for error. When you have a wide-open hitting area, it's easy to bomb and gouge. I blame the course designers for this. They are walking a fine line trying to keep the pace of play for hackers playing army golf, but are making scoring easier for precision golfers.

Equipment has been reigned in. IMO, too far already, since the groove rule is serving no purpose. Your last line of defense is going to be the ball.

The bigger issue with the ball is durability and the multi-piece ability to control spin. Again, in the old days, you needed balata to dance on the greens. But this resulted in a ballooning drive and out of round balls that were much more difficult to putt.

The problem is that there are more patents on ball design than all equipment combined. The simple answer of capping technology on the ball will result in the loss of support from the equipment companies. They were willing to sacrifice equipment to keep ball development because for them, that's where the money is.

And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.

[Bella Woods]

stage1350 and majic make some very good points.

I never really thought about it that way, but golf probably is
the only sport that does not have a "standard ball", tournament
or otherwise. I wonder why?

The bunkers that the pros play out of are comically manicured.
Stage1350 is right, quit raking and maintaining them and make them
penal again instead of something to aim for to hit your next shot
out of.

I have always thought that the golf shaft and golf ball changes
are the biggest reason for the change in golf today.

[spencer096]

what if pros had to use wound balls and no 460cc drivers? instead of the 460cc drivers you'd have tournament regulation driver size capped around a size that'd be an evolutionary 3w?

/excuse me if this is a tired idea or just stupid

[Llortamaisey]

Stage-

I agree with a lot of your thinking. The only thing you said that I don't think is an option is the termination of trees. A lot of golf courses are now cutting them down to improve air circulation for grass growth.

What do you think about limiting the loft on a golf club. Say the limit was 56*. In your opinion, do you think that would make an impact?


[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1310936134' post='3399077']
You need a multi-pronged attack if you want to reign in this problem. Some solutions are very expensive. Others, surprisingly cheap.

First of all, Drive cc size, COR, and total length are capped. The OEMs are pushing 47" on a 48" maximum. You won't see much more in the future from equipment. The bigger issue is the ability to create sub 50g (and sub 40g) shafts that will take the punishment of a PGA/LDA swing. Even 15 years ago, many 60g shafts were so brittle and thin walled that breakage prohibited them from gaining widespread acceptance. Not anymore. Solution: Put a weight MINIMUM in place. 320g would equate to a 205g head, 65g shaft, and 50g grip. This will keep the lighter/longer crowd in check.

Course design is also a problem. As a good friend of mine likes to say. You can reign in a lot of distance on Tour with a few turns of a 5 dollar box wrench. Water the fairways and grow them longer, as well as the rough. They get 50 yards of roll because they are hitting on a parking lot. Most of us don't get that roll on munis because they have water the fairways. When the professionals have to hit 3-4 more clubs into the green, you will see scores return to normal.

You can also quit giving them perfectly manicured courses. Give the Tour unraked, hardpacked, concrete bunkers like the public sees. Give them a bumpier putting surface similar to what Palmer and Nicklaus played on in the '60s. See how they putt then. Saves cost on maintenance too.

Quit having courses clear trees. The toughest courses I know are some of the oldest in the area. The old growth trees punish you if you get out of the fairway and leave little room for error. When you have a wide-open hitting area, it's easy to bomb and gouge. I blame the course designers for this. They are walking a fine line trying to keep the pace of play for hackers playing army golf, but are making scoring easier for precision golfers.

Equipment has been reigned in. IMO, too far already, since the groove rule is serving no purpose. Your last line of defense is going to be the ball.

The bigger issue with the ball is durability and the multi-piece ability to control spin. Again, in the old days, you needed balata to dance on the greens. But this resulted in a ballooning drive and out of round balls that were much more difficult to putt.

The problem is that there are more patents on ball design than all equipment combined. The simple answer of capping technology on the ball will result in the loss of support from the equipment companies. They were willing to sacrifice equipment to keep ball development because for them, that's where the money is.

And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.
[/quote]

[stage1350]

Cobra,

Point taken on the trees. To me, that's bad design again. Instead of using the terrain, and nature to lay out the hole, they parked a green or tee box where it shouldn't have been. Again, playing older courses when I was in the midwest, you never saw fans needed on the courses that predated earth moving equipment. The newer courses are putting in strains of grass that weren't meant to grow in the area. They destroy natural slopes and irrigation paths. Sometimes, the land was not meant to hold a golf course.

Regarding limiting loft: to me, it falls under all the new specifics that the USGA is foolishly making to the equipment. To me, the rules of golf should be very broad and general, like the Constitution. It should take a major issue to change the rules. With equipment, everyone playing conforming gear has the same opportunity as anyone else to buy and play the same clubs and balls, minus some prototypes. Everyone plays from the same tee boxes in a tournament. The leveling factor should be your ability to play the course. Which means that the course, properly set up, will defend itself. Personally, I don't care if the winning score is even par or 20 under. You either make the shots, or you don't. Everyone playing that day is playing the same course as you.

Power players have always had the length advantage and that will never change, no matter how they try to limit it. In the end, staying out of trouble and making putts wins tournaments. Otherwise, Daly, Johnson, and Bubba would win every tournament. I think it's pointless to protect par. The fact is that the professionals really are that good. 99% of the golfing world will never break par for 18 holes. Why make the game harder because that 0.001% of the golfing populace can do wonders with a club in their hand? We don't need to "Tiger-proof" every course. We don't need to limit equipment since a small percentage of golfers can truly take advantage of it.

The engineers prove time and time again that any rule made can be equalized with engineering and technology. I'd prefer to keep everyone on the same set of rules and let the chips fall where they may. 59 is still the magic number on the PGA Tour. Miller's record, while equaled, has not been beaten in a Major. When those records start falling on a regular basis, I'll worry.

[Staffer]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1310936134' post='3399077']
You need a multi-pronged attack if you want to reign in this problem. Some solutions are very expensive. Others, surprisingly cheap.

First of all, Drive cc size, COR, and total length are capped. The OEMs are pushing 47" on a 48" maximum. You won't see much more in the future from equipment. The bigger issue is the ability to create sub 50g (and sub 40g) shafts that will take the punishment of a PGA/LDA swing. Even 15 years ago, many 60g shafts were so brittle and thin walled that breakage prohibited them from gaining widespread acceptance. Not anymore. Solution: Put a weight MINIMUM in place. 320g would equate to a 205g head, 65g shaft, and 50g grip. This will keep the lighter/longer crowd in check.

Course design is also a problem. As a good friend of mine likes to say. You can reign in a lot of distance on Tour with a few turns of a 5 dollar box wrench. Water the fairways and grow them longer, as well as the rough. They get 50 yards of roll because they are hitting on a parking lot. Most of us don't get that roll on munis because they have water the fairways. When the professionals have to hit 3-4 more clubs into the green, you will see scores return to normal.

You can also quit giving them perfectly manicured courses. Give the Tour unraked, hardpacked, concrete bunkers like the public sees. Give them a bumpier putting surface similar to what Palmer and Nicklaus played on in the '60s. See how they putt then. Saves cost on maintenance too.

Quit having courses clear trees. The toughest courses I know are some of the oldest in the area. The old growth trees punish you if you get out of the fairway and leave little room for error. When you have a wide-open hitting area, it's easy to bomb and gouge. I blame the course designers for this. They are walking a fine line trying to keep the pace of play for hackers playing army golf, but are making scoring easier for precision golfers.

Equipment has been reigned in. IMO, too far already, since the groove rule is serving no purpose. Your last line of defense is going to be the ball.

The bigger issue with the ball is durability and the multi-piece ability to control spin. Again, in the old days, you needed balata to dance on the greens. But this resulted in a ballooning drive and out of round balls that were much more difficult to putt.

The problem is that there are more patents on ball design than all equipment combined. The simple answer of capping technology on the ball will result in the loss of support from the equipment companies. They were willing to sacrifice equipment to keep ball development because for them, that's where the money is.

And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.
[/quote]

The ball market can take regulation better than the club market.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1310980733' post='3400406']
[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1310936134' post='3399077']
You need a multi-pronged attack if you want to reign in this problem. Some solutions are very expensive. Others, surprisingly cheap.

First of all, Drive cc size, COR, and total length are capped. The OEMs are pushing 47" on a 48" maximum. You won't see much more in the future from equipment. The bigger issue is the ability to create sub 50g (and sub 40g) shafts that will take the punishment of a PGA/LDA swing. Even 15 years ago, many 60g shafts were so brittle and thin walled that breakage prohibited them from gaining widespread acceptance. Not anymore. Solution: Put a weight MINIMUM in place. 320g would equate to a 205g head, 65g shaft, and 50g grip. This will keep the lighter/longer crowd in check.

Course design is also a problem. As a good friend of mine likes to say. You can reign in a lot of distance on Tour with a few turns of a 5 dollar box wrench. Water the fairways and grow them longer, as well as the rough. They get 50 yards of roll because they are hitting on a parking lot. Most of us don't get that roll on munis because they have water the fairways. When the professionals have to hit 3-4 more clubs into the green, you will see scores return to normal.

You can also quit giving them perfectly manicured courses. Give the Tour unraked, hardpacked, concrete bunkers like the public sees. Give them a bumpier putting surface similar to what Palmer and Nicklaus played on in the '60s. See how they putt then. Saves cost on maintenance too.

Quit having courses clear trees. The toughest courses I know are some of the oldest in the area. The old growth trees punish you if you get out of the fairway and leave little room for error. When you have a wide-open hitting area, it's easy to bomb and gouge. I blame the course designers for this. They are walking a fine line trying to keep the pace of play for hackers playing army golf, but are making scoring easier for precision golfers.

Equipment has been reigned in. IMO, too far already, since the groove rule is serving no purpose. Your last line of defense is going to be the ball.

The bigger issue with the ball is durability and the multi-piece ability to control spin. Again, in the old days, you needed balata to dance on the greens. But this resulted in a ballooning drive and out of round balls that were much more difficult to putt.

The problem is that there are more patents on ball design than all equipment combined. The simple answer of capping technology on the ball will result in the loss of support from the equipment companies. They were willing to sacrifice equipment to keep ball development because for them, that's where the money is.

And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.
[/quote]

The ball market can take regulation better than the club market.
[/quote]
I agree that regulating the ball could change things...and Augusta National could get it done without a hitch. No one would complain about it then, lest they never get invited to play in the event again. Regulation balls are required in virtually every other sport. Baseball is a good example of regulating the ball AND the bat. Kids can ust any kind of metal bat they want through clooege. But once you reach the Big Show, it is only wood.
The ball manufacturers can make a ball any way they want. It is just a function of $$ volume.

[puttingmatt]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1310936134' post='3399077']
You need a multi-pronged attack if you want to reign in this problem. Some solutions are very expensive. Others, surprisingly cheap.

First of all, Drive cc size, COR, and total length are capped. The OEMs are pushing 47" on a 48" maximum. You won't see much more in the future from equipment. The bigger issue is the ability to create sub 50g (and sub 40g) shafts that will take the punishment of a PGA/LDA swing. Even 15 years ago, many 60g shafts were so brittle and thin walled that breakage prohibited them from gaining widespread acceptance. Not anymore. Solution: Put a weight MINIMUM in place. 320g would equate to a 205g head, 65g shaft, and 50g grip. This will keep the lighter/longer crowd in check.

Course design is also a problem. As a good friend of mine likes to say. You can reign in a lot of distance on Tour with a few turns of a 5 dollar box wrench. Water the fairways and grow them longer, as well as the rough. They get 50 yards of roll because they are hitting on a parking lot. Most of us don't get that roll on munis because they have water the fairways. When the professionals have to hit 3-4 more clubs into the green, you will see scores return to normal.

You can also quit giving them perfectly manicured courses. Give the Tour unraked, hardpacked, concrete bunkers like the public sees. Give them a bumpier putting surface similar to what Palmer and Nicklaus played on in the '60s. See how they putt then. Saves cost on maintenance too.

Quit having courses clear trees. The toughest courses I know are some of the oldest in the area. The old growth trees punish you if you get out of the fairway and leave little room for error. When you have a wide-open hitting area, it's easy to bomb and gouge. I blame the course designers for this. They are walking a fine line trying to keep the pace of play for hackers playing army golf, but are making scoring easier for precision golfers.

Equipment has been reigned in. IMO, too far already, since the groove rule is serving no purpose. Your last line of defense is going to be the ball.

The bigger issue with the ball is durability and the multi-piece ability to control spin. Again, in the old days, you needed balata to dance on the greens. But this resulted in a ballooning drive and out of round balls that were much more difficult to putt.

The problem is that there are more patents on ball design than all equipment combined. The simple answer of capping technology on the ball will result in the loss of support from the equipment companies. They were willing to sacrifice equipment to keep ball development because for them, that's where the money is.

And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.
[/quote]

Excellent Post !!! And a course in my area has cut 80 plus trees in the last two years!!! Big difference!!!

[Bella Woods]

You know its funny, because I'm looking at people hitting the ball
380 yards on a 500 yard par 5 (with the main "trouble" on the hole off
the tee being in the form of pine trees on the right and OB and bunkers on the
left). It also has a nasty bunker in front of the green about 10 feet deep.
But if you hit it 300 yards or more in the air the only trouble is the OB,
and now a days, making sure you hit s decent sand wedge to 7 iron into the
green

I know the design of the hole did not contemplate this. The design of
the hole contemplated the "bombers" hitting the ball 250 to 275 yards
with maybe a 235 to 245 yard carry, and because of the front bunker, a
"risky" 5 wood into the green or laying up.

I know that golf courses all over the country (world) get obsoleted every
year that passes, but is it necessary? I also know that the distance
question is about as old as the game itself.

Golfers with decent games and high swing speeds are hitting irons into
600 yard par 5's?

This is not a game that I recognize anymore, nor want to be a part of. Bella is
going retro permanently with the classic persimmon and hickories, to enjoy
the game I remember.

[Bella Woods]

I see that Bubba Watson reached a 667 yard par 5 in two shots (415 yard drive) recently
at Firestone. Isn't that special.

Whats next, the unreachable 800 yard par 5?

Probably hit an iron on the second shot after that drive.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1312670325' post='3457553']
I see that Bubba Watson reached a 667 yard par 5 in two shots (415 yard drive) recently
at Firestone. Isn't that special.

Whats next, the unreachable 800 yard par 5?

Probably hit an iron on the second shot after that drive.
[/quote]

It's an outrage.

Would any of us enjoy the NFL more if a football could be developed that could be thrown or kicked 100 yards with the same effort employed today by the best players?

I sure wouldn't.

But that's what's been allowed to happen to golf.

No one can tell me that Bubba Watson is a superior athlete to the greats of the past.

And it's not spring like effect, because that doesn't explain the 215 yard 7 iron.

It's the ball. Period. And it never should have been permitted.

[majic]

Been away for a time on this post. Great comments by all. I am not sure but I know when I was designing the driver that Sean Fister used to win the World long drive it was clear that the face construction had to be different for him then if I was designing the head for my drives. A good friend made this comment to me and this is something that only the big manufacturers and USGA can answer but i think they could remove the COR spec. I do not think they can make a high COR face that will withstand very high swing speeds. This means that no player would risk playing a high COR driver but the average player could use it and enjoy some added distance.
The ball and improved drive shafts are the major cause of distance. Tad

[golfbum9]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1310338268' post='3380109']
I have been thinking about the above subject for some time now and thought I
would throw it out there and see what people think.

Specifically, several instances have occurred recently that make me wonder what
is going to happen to the game in the future (near future).

In the process of testing some clubs on a trackman recently, the owner of the shop
brought over an employee for me to watch hit a few shots with my driver and 4
iron. Long story short - On average 125 swing speed, 175-180 ball speed, 301 to
320 carry and 330-340 total distance with the driver. With the 4 iron - 115 swing speed,
250-255 carry and 270 on average total distance.

In addition, Bella recently played (if you call it that) in a local high level amateur
tournament here in the Detroit area. Since I played less than stellar, I was able to
watch the last seven or eight groups (the leaders) tee off on 1 when I was already
done playing. One after another young (none were all that big and all probably in their
early 20s) player was bombing the ball off the first tee. I know for a fact that one of the
hit their drive 379 (with an estimated 340 carry) and had a flip sand wedge into the par 5.
To hit the ball that far in the air he must have been swinging the club 130 miles an hour.

My point is this, these young guys (and all the ones around just like them) are going to make
Bubba Watson and J.B. Holmes look like average Joes in no time at all. What golf course
around is going to hold them? I am not a short hitter (I can still get it out there around 300
every now and then), but they can hit irons farther than my driver. I know I am not getting any
younger but it looks to me that it could get out of hand, and soon.

I am starting to wonder if golf should (or will in the near future) bifarcate. Let the group above
(and the pros?) have no equipment limits and just let technology go as far as it does with no
rules. And for the rest of us, play golf as it has been played for many years on normal golf
courses (whether it be classic persimmon or hickory etc).

Anybody have a view on it?
[/quote]
It's the ball. and I agree they should seperate equipment rules for the amatuer and pro.
Give these pro's a balata and we'll see how they stack up to the greatest that ever played the game...

[golfbum9]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1310936134' post='3399077']
And in the end, it all comes down to the money. And the money is what is truly ruining the game today.
[/quote]
Bingo

[Pinsplitter59]

would love to see the pros playing the old british size ball.
bring it back i say.
its still goes far but spins a lot less, doesn't go so high and is much harder to hit out of the rough.
a lot more skill is needed to control it.
it seems now in retrospect that adopting the large ball for golf worldwide was the worst decision ever made.

[okesa]

[size="4"]I agree that money is one of the biggest problems and that's manifested in many ways like the massive over-production of golf equipment and the fascination with professional golf.
Major manufacturers used to produce a new model of club every couple of years and now it seems like every six months and it's apparent that there is a glut of equipment judging by the knockdown prices to be found.
The professional golf tours are self perpetuating money machines,look at the European Tour who now include the Near,Middle and Far East in their schedule,those places were never in Europe when I was at school!
However,a simple solution would be for the R&A and USGA to enforce a restriction on the golf ball,retain 1.68" but maybe lighten it?Go to 1.58oz?Whatever,a distance curb would not be a bad thing.[/size]