Smart phones illegal?

[theshow]

Are smart phones illegal for tourny's and handicap?

Took a lesson recently, and the pro pointed out that I have an iPhone 4. He said under the new rules of golf, that phone is deemed illegal because it has a compass. If I were to play in an event, I would be DQ, and furthermore I cannot enter a score in towards my handicap.

Did any of you know this?

Is there a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders?

If so, where can I find that list?

If not, there needs to be a list, or USGA needs to create one.

Anyone with a compass on their phone, that phone is illegal. I have golf gps apps on my phone that I paid for, and I can't use them while playing because my phone has a compass. Sucks!

[HarryBee]

That's not entirely correct. See:

[url="http://gps.about.com/od/gpsproductoverview/a/smartphone-golf-gps-rules.htm"]GPS rules[/url]

Harry

[Skaffa77]

I guess it can also be used to make phone calls during a round now (order a pizza, call family, get scores for other sports, etc).

Now, if you want to talk about a double standard...let's compare this to range finders with a slope feature that can be turned off. (Yes, I have a beef about this subject).

A smart phone and range finder w/slope both can be both technically be used during a round of golf and conform to the rules (handicap or amateur tournaments). Range finder can be used to get distance without slope feature (turn it off). Smart phone can be used for GPS purposes and the golfer can avoid using apps which prohibited.

Range finder w/slope feature has been deemed to be uncomforming because it has the potential to be used with the slope feature (against the rules). Some people have contended that this rule is needed because it would be difficult for tournament officials or playing competitors to know if that feature is active or not...even though some companies have designed methods to be very overt (different colored face plate).

Ironically, a smart phone has non-comforming features, apps or tools that could potentially be utilized during a round and also be difficult for tournament officials or playing competitors to know. I realize that if a smart phone has a slope app or an app that reads breaks on a green, it's automatically deemed non-comforming, but they allow other apps that would be non-conforming. With a click of the button, I can get temperature, compass direction, general wind speed and direction, etc, and somehow it's okay for this device to be used with those features which are non-conforming.

In the case of the smart phone, the rules assume the golfer will use it in a conforming manner. In the case of the range finder w/slope feature (that can be turned off), the rules assume the golfer can't be trusted to turn the slope feature off so the device can be used in a conforming manner.

[darkhelmet]

Actually, if you read the rules themselves, it sounds to me like just having a compass app installed on the smartphone is grounds for illegality. I copied and pasted the current rules, followed by a section from the new rulebook that goes into effect in 2012.

 

They say right in the rules that a compass is illegal to use, because you could determine wind direction, grain direction, etc. from it. And a measuring device that is also "designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affecta a player's play" is therefore also illegal whether you use the functionality (like a compass) or not.

 

The new appendix IV from the new rules gives a little more clarity (mentions specifically measuring wind direction, which could be done with a compass).

 

So I'd say that unless you can delete the compass app from your iphone, it's not a legal measuring device.

 

 

14-3/0.5 Local Rule Permitting Use of Distance-Measuring Device

 

Q. May a Committee, by Local Rule, permit the use of distance-measuring devices?

 

A. Yes. A Committee may establish a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure or gauge distance only (see the Note to Rule 14-3). However, the use of a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player's play (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature, etc.) is not permitted regardless of whether such an additional function is used.

 

In the absence of such a Local Rule, the use of a distance-measuring device would be contrary to Rule 14-3.

 

 

 

 

14-3/4 Use of Compass During Round

 

Q. A player uses a compass during a round to assist him in determining wind direction or the direction of the grain in the greens or for some other similar reason. Is the player in breach of Rule 14-3?

 

A. Yes. A compass is considered to be an artificial device and must not be used for these purposes.

 

 

 

From the 2012 rules:

 

5. Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14-3)

During a stipulated round, the use of any distance measuring device is not

permitted unless the Committee has introduced a Local Rule to that effect

(see Note to Rule 14-3 and Appendix I; Part B; Section 9).

Even when the Local Rule is in effect, the device must be limited to

measuring distance only. Features that would render use of the device

contrary to the Local Rule include, but are not limited to:

• the gauging or measuring of slope;

• the gauging or measuring of other conditions that might affect play

(e.g., wind speed or direction, or other climate-based information such

as temperature, humidity, etc.);

• recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his

play (e.g., club selection, type of shot to be played, green reading or any

other advice related matter); or

• calculating the effective distance between two points based on slope or

other conditions affecting shot distance.

Such non-conforming features render use of the device contrary to the Rules,

irrespective of whether or not:

• the features can be switched off or disengaged; and

• the features are switched off or disengaged.

A multi-functional device, such as a smartphone or PDA, may be used as a

distance measuring device provided it contains a distance measuring application

that meets all of the above limitations (i.e., it must measure distance only).

In addition, when the distance measuring application is being used, there must

be no other features or applications installed on the device that, if used, would

be in breach of the Rules, whether or not they are actually used.

 

[TM_HOYER]

People in tournaments have been DQ'ed because of the use of golf GPS apps on a smartphone based on USGA decisions. The GolfLogix premium app will recommend a club which is clearly a non-conforming app. I think the ultimate word on this is the use of rangefinders is based on local rule. And your pro has said no to phone apps so the local rule is no.

[ClayGolf84]

It says conforming smartphone apps.. Do any of them say these meet USGA rules?

[BENCHMADE]

Use and love my Golfshot GPS. In a tourny, hire a caddie.

[TM_HOYER]

Because of the way the rules are written, no smartphone apps can be declared as conforming to USGA rules. Smartphones are not a closed system that can prevent the installing of apps that make the smartphone apps non-conforming. That is why you will only find units such as Skycaddie and Garmin declared as conforming.

But if you deleted all non-conforming apps from your smartphone, the smartphone golf gps app could be conforming. I would doubt that competitions allowing rangefinders will allow smartphone apps because they do not want to be the app police and check every phone for non-conforming apps.

[Bob McClain]

That's not entirely correct. See:

 

GPS rules

 

Harry

 

 

Harry

 

The guy your are quoting (Fred ) reviews golf GPS applications for a living --- He is not entirely correct.

 

The simple answer is if your Smartphone has a compass on it -- it is nonconforming! The penalty is DQ and you cannot post your score for handicapp purposes.

 

14-3/4 Use of Compass During Round

 

Q. A player uses a compass during a round to assist him in determining wind direction or the direction of the grain in the greens or for some other similar reason. Is the player in breach of Rule 14-3?

 

A. Yes. A compass is considered to be an artificial device and must not be used for these purposes.

 

 

From the 2012 rules:

 

5. Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14-3)

 

During a stipulated round, the use of any distance measuring device is not

permitted unless the Committee has introduced a Local Rule to that effect

(see Note to Rule 14-3 and Appendix I; Part B; Section 9).

 

Even when the Local Rule is in effect, the device must be limited to

measuring distance only. Features that would render use of the device

contrary to the Local Rule include, but are not limited to:

 

• the gauging or measuring of slope;

 

• the gauging or measuring of other conditions that might affect play

(e.g., wind speed or direction, or other climate-based information such

as temperature, humidity, etc.);

 

• recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his

play (e.g., club selection, type of shot to be played, green reading or any

other advice related matter); or

 

• calculating the effective distance between two points based on slope or

other conditions affecting shot distance.

Such non-conforming features render use of the device contrary to the Rules,

irrespective of whether or not:

 

• the features can be switched off or disengaged; and

 

• the features are switched off or disengaged.

 

 

 

[KevCarter]

Bob, I think you are correct in your interpretation. I also believe the restriction against posting scores while using these devises may become the most violated rule ever. :-)

Kevin

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1321549394' post='3813675']
Took a lesson recently, and the pro pointed out that I have an iPhone 4. He said under the new rules of golf, that phone is deemed illegal because it has a compass. If I were to play in an event, I would be DQ, and furthermore I cannot enter a score in towards my handicap.

Did any of you know this?

Is there a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders?

If so, where can I find that list?

If not, there needs to be a list, or USGA needs to create one.

Anyone with a compass on their phone, that phone is illegal. I have golf gps apps on my phone that I paid for, and I can't use them while playing because my phone has a compass. Sucks!
[/quote]

A compass... really?!!! I can't think of a single reason how or why I would ever want to use a compass on a golf course, nor how it would help my game. If you got a GPS who the heck needs a compass anyway?

I personally find it silly that they think people may use a smartphone to cheat, yet there are far more ways to cheat that don't require technology.

As for not being allowed to post scores if you use your smartphones golf GPS? This is preposterous. If using an illegal application caused you to golf better thus falsely lowering your handicap, the only person you'd be cheating is yourself.

Golfs a game based on honor and trust, so why not trust people to use technology within the rules.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1321745932' post='3823877']
[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1321549394' post='3813675']
Took a lesson recently, and the pro pointed out that I have an iPhone 4. He said under the new rules of golf, that phone is deemed illegal because it has a compass. If I were to play in an event, I would be DQ, and furthermore I cannot enter a score in towards my handicap.

Did any of you know this?

Is there a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders?

If so, where can I find that list?

If not, there needs to be a list, or USGA needs to create one.

Anyone with a compass on their phone, that phone is illegal. I have golf gps apps on my phone that I paid for, and I can't use them while playing because my phone has a compass. Sucks!
[/quote]

A compass... really?!!! I can't think of a single reason how or why I would ever want to use a compass on a golf course, nor how it would help my game. If you got a GPS who the heck needs a compass anyway?

I personally find it silly that they think people may use a smartphone to cheat, yet there are far more ways to cheat that don't require technology.

As for not being allowed to post scores if you use your smartphones golf GPS? This is preposterous. If using an illegal application caused you to golf better thus falsely lowering your handicap, the only person you'd be cheating is yourself.

Golfs a game based on honor and trust, so why not trust people to use technology within the rules.
[/quote]

There are number of USGA rules that leave people perplexed. Since the USGA has ruled that a laser with slope is non-conforming even if a key visually shows it is turned off, they have to apply the same rules for smartphone apps..

People are going to use smartphone GPS apps. People are going to register scores where they are used. Just be aware in competitions that follow USGA rules, smartphone apps are not allowed. Also if someone challenges your handicap because you use a smartphone app, your handicap could be thrown out. If you do not play in competitions, the ruling is not a big deal.

[theshow]

The apps are one thing, but by having a compass on my phone, my phone is now deemed ILLEGAL! I think that is a little over the top. I understand the slope on a rangefinder issue, but just because my phone has a pre-installed compass app, it is now illegal to use.

TM_Hoyer
People will use their Golf Apps during rounds, and I'm guessing during events. The apps aren't the issue, its the compass that is. It would be pretty crazy if somebody challenges another player about their handicap postings. Could you imagine if it was in a big event? State Am, or US Am?

There needs to be a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1321896141' post='3831327']
The apps are one thing, but by having a compass on my phone, my phone is now deemed ILLEGAL! I think that is a little over the top. I understand the slope on a rangefinder issue, but just because my phone has a pre-installed compass app, it is now illegal to use.

TM_Hoyer
People will use their Golf Apps during rounds, and I'm guessing during events. The apps aren't the issue, its the compass that is. It would be pretty crazy if somebody challenges another player about their handicap postings. Could you imagine if it was in a big event? State Am, or US Am?

There needs to be a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders.
[/quote]

Phones with a compass are not non-conforming. A golf app is non-conforming on a phone with a compass (among other apps they say make a phone non-conforming). It does not matter if it is GPS or laser, if the electronic device has functionality that is non-conforming, regardless of whether it is used or not or can be disabled, the golf app or laser is non-conforming. Most people that play competitive events know the ruling and have conforming equipment. Also it is also a non-issue for high profile am and pro events as use is by local rule and those events the local rule is no electronic devices what so ever.

[slawz88]

my iphone is illegal in 50 states *holsters pistol

[billybaroo]

Another example of a USGA ruling that is 100% out of touch with the majority of the golfing public.

[Nashy]

So there illegal if they have a compass function which you can use to tell you wind direction. Well my fingers and grass must be illegal aswell as they tell me wind direction, come to think of it Flags and tree's must also be illegal! The USGA makes some stupid rules up.

[phil75070]

[quote name='Nashy' timestamp='1323035600' post='3890715']
So there illegal if they have a compass function which you can use to tell you wind direction. Well my fingers and grass must be illegal aswell as they tell me wind direction, come to think of it Flags and tree's must also be illegal! The USGA makes some stupid rules up.
[/quote]

The flag is part of the cours an not "unusual equipment". None of the other items you mention, trees, grass, even your fingers, are "artificial devices".

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1323044806' post='3891735']
[quote name='Nashy' timestamp='1323035600' post='3890715']
So there illegal if they have a compass function which you can use to tell you wind direction. Well my fingers and grass must be illegal aswell as they tell me wind direction, come to think of it Flags and tree's must also be illegal! The USGA makes some stupid rules up.
[/quote]

The flag is part of the cours an not "unusual equipment". None of the other items you mention, trees, grass, even your fingers, are "artificial devices".
[/quote]

I'm still trying to figure out why I would even want a compass on the golf course.

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1321897655' post='3831435']
[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1321896141' post='3831327']
The apps are one thing, but by having a compass on my phone, my phone is now deemed ILLEGAL! I think that is a little over the top. I understand the slope on a rangefinder issue, but just because my phone has a pre-installed compass app, it is now illegal to use.

TM_Hoyer
People will use their Golf Apps during rounds, and I'm guessing during events. The apps aren't the issue, its the compass that is. It would be pretty crazy if somebody challenges another player about their handicap postings. Could you imagine if it was in a big event? State Am, or US Am?

There needs to be a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders.
[/quote]

Phones with a compass are not non-conforming. A golf app is non-conforming on a phone with a compass (among other apps they say make a phone non-conforming).[b] It does not matter if it is GPS or laser, if the electronic device has functionality that is non-conforming, regardless of whether it is used or not or can be disabled, the golf app or laser is non-conforming[/b]. Most people that play competitive events know the ruling and have conforming equipment. Also it is also a non-issue for high profile am and pro events as use is by local rule and those events the local rule is no electronic devices what so ever.
[/quote]

I completely understand the rule, but couldn't the same be said about adjustable clubs or wedges with faces that can be removed? The "use" of that functionality during a round would deem it non-conforming and against the rules. The player then by their own honor chooses to abide by the rules by not utilizing that functionality to keep that club conforming.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that adjustable clubs is more conspicious, but in my mind, the overall principle is the same.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Skaffa77' timestamp='1323099971' post='3894325']
[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1321897655' post='3831435']
[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1321896141' post='3831327']
The apps are one thing, but by having a compass on my phone, my phone is now deemed ILLEGAL! I think that is a little over the top. I understand the slope on a rangefinder issue, but just because my phone has a pre-installed compass app, it is now illegal to use.

TM_Hoyer
People will use their Golf Apps during rounds, and I'm guessing during events. The apps aren't the issue, its the compass that is. It would be pretty crazy if somebody challenges another player about their handicap postings. Could you imagine if it was in a big event? State Am, or US Am?

There needs to be a list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders.
[/quote]

Phones with a compass are not non-conforming. A golf app is non-conforming on a phone with a compass (among other apps they say make a phone non-conforming).[b] It does not matter if it is GPS or laser, if the electronic device has functionality that is non-conforming, regardless of whether it is used or not or can be disabled, the golf app or laser is non-conforming[/b]. Most people that play competitive events know the ruling and have conforming equipment. Also it is also a non-issue for high profile am and pro events as use is by local rule and those events the local rule is no electronic devices what so ever.
[/quote]

I completely understand the rule, but couldn't the same be said about adjustable clubs or wedges with faces that can be removed? The "use" of that functionality during a round would deem it non-conforming and against the rules. The player then by their own honor chooses to abide by the rules by not utilizing that functionality to keep that club conforming.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that adjustable clubs is more conspicious, but in my mind, the overall principle is the same.
[/quote]


You would need to ask the USGA on why certain rules apply to electronic devices and not to adjustable clubs. There are times that USGA rules leave you scratching your head in wonder, but those are the rules that we are to play by.

[theshow]

Crazy ruling, but since a smartphone has the ability to do "other" things then measure distance, or has a compass, it is deemed illegal. USGA is losing it!

Where's the list of conforming and non-conforming rangefinders?

Adjustable clubs argument is a good one. They should be illegal as well...

[theshow]

Attached is an article from GolfWeek about smart phones.

[jimmies78]

It is such a silly rule....that the public (golfing) did not ask for,,,,,,it leads me to only one conclusion - there must be some backhanders from golf specific hardware manufacturers to keep phone apps illegal.

Lets be honest the hardware of modern smartphones is far better than all of the officially allowed devices (I'm talking gps here)......I own an sgx....but if apps were allowed I would not have spent £280 plus yearly fee for my sgx

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='jimmies78' timestamp='1323359726' post='3910673']
It is such a silly rule....that the public (golfing) did not ask for,,,,,,it leads me to only one conclusion - there must be some backhanders from golf specific hardware manufacturers to keep phone apps illegal.

Lets be honest the hardware of modern smartphones is far better than all of the officially allowed devices (I'm talking gps here)......I own an sgx....but if apps were allowed I would not have spent £280 plus yearly fee for my sgx
[/quote]

Actually the public has been asking for clearer definition of the rules, just do a search of this forum to see it has been discussed for a while. Finally they have made it clear. The hardware and software together can only be capable of distance measurement, nothing else.

Also any GPS specific hardware will be more accurate than smartphones. My iPhone 4 says I live 15 yards from where I actually live. Not exactly accurate. The new SGXw is accurate to less than a meter, which is laser territory when it comes to accuracy.

There are three things to blame for this issue. The USGA for taking too long to clearly define what is conforming (though it was been known for a while smartphones where not conforming. The app writers that saw big dollar signs in writing apps they know were not conforming but people would buy anyway. And finally the people that buy the apps, creating a market for the apps.

[billybaroo]

[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1323370336' post='3911761']

Also any GPS specific hardware will be more accurate than smartphones. My iPhone 4 says I live 15 yards from where I actually live. Not exactly accurate. The new SGXw is accurate to less than a meter, which is laser territory when it comes to accuracy.
[/quote]

Disagree.

Iphones are notoriously bad at many things Often times a phone will use cell towers, wifi spots, etc to grab a location when you are inside and the GPS signal is weak.

My Droid based GPS is as accurate as any other dedicated GPS I've ever had in the group with me, and is laser accurate as well.

[theshow]

Regardless of what phone you use, if there is a compass on the phone it makes that device illegal. The apps aren't necessarily illegal, the phone is because of the compass.

Crazy rule!

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='theshow' timestamp='1323451106' post='3916625']
Regardless of what phone you use, if there is a compass on the phone it makes that device illegal. The apps aren't necessarily illegal, the phone is because of the compass.

Crazy rule!
[/quote]

They are using the compass as one example of what makes a device non-conforming. There are lot of other apps that also make devices non-conforming. If you have a level (it can tell the break of the green), the device is non-conforming. There are other apps that tell you the break of the green, which makes the device non-conforming. There are apps that use the mic to determine wind speed and direction, making the device non-conforming. A weather app that give wind direction and speed from a nearby weather station is non-conforming. There is a golf GPS apps that recommends a club to use, that makes the app non-conforming. There are a lot of ways a device can be non-conforming.