ben hogan oil hardened 3 wood

[rgolf06]

ben hogan oil hardened 3 wood

i have this club, and am going to restore it to the point i can play it, cracks and all , it may not hold up, but we'll see.....

[Maxwell]

rgolf06 - Need some help?
Max

[rgolf06]

i'll keep you close, maxwell, for sure.i am going to brush up everything good, clean the back of the insert , it is caked with mud and gunk, take the lead loose that runs thru the back , and try to pour some more in, i still have the lead pots .....somewhere.......mix up some epoxy and impregnate this thing with it.....all the screws came out well except one insert screw, i have a few.....but they never match to my eye....it has one neck crack on the underside but not running to the backscrew location.....
thanks for the offer !!! do you have any screws you want to sell or extra new old stock shafts?

[rgolf06]

update.....solid and playable now...

[teevons]

excellent, cant wait to see it finished


[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1329238695' post='4284059']
update.....solid and playable now...
[/quote]

[rgolf06]

here you go guys....this is the best i can do with it....just got to apply whipping now..wait 3 weeks to hit it...

[Maxwell]

Very Well Done! You should feel good about your efforts AND your results!
Max

[rgolf06]

thank you so much for the compliment, i love working on these clubs.

[Nspiel58]

Beautiful job! Don't forget the whipping. LOL

[Cyd]

Great job on the restoration!

How did you get the sole plate off?

have you ever gotten a chance to hit the club yet?

[rgolf06]

i took it off with no problem, the original glue was well past its prime...used a frearson tip screwdriver i have owned for years....no, i haven't hit it ..but this weekend may be the perfect timing.....
ray[quote name='Cyd' timestamp='1337265895' post='4931134']
Great job on the restoration!

How did you get the sole plate off?

have you ever gotten a chance to hit the club yet?
[/quote]

[Cyd]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1337284868' post='4933196']
i took it off with no problem, the original glue was well past its prime...used a frearson tip screwdriver i have owned for years....no, i haven't hit it ..but this weekend may be the perfect timing.....
ray
[/quote]

I played today and hit a Hogan 4 wood I found at the thrift store. I put on a new grip and it was great. Best club I hit all day. It needs to be refinished thats why I was interested in your thread. I believe you'll love hitting it when you take it out for a test spin!

Good luck and enjoy!

Be sure to let us know how it does.

[rgolf06]

i played a few holes on sat. and sun. ...i hit this great classic side by side against a taylor made 2010 burner 3 wood with a 48 gram matrix ozik at 43 1/2 inches long...guess what ? with identical bridgestone e 6 balls, they both go the same distance from a great fairway lie.....!!
now, off of a low tee heighth, the burner wins by 9-11 yards ....no surprise....also, the persimmon achieves the same total flight heighth off of a great fairway lie...
anybody surprised ?[quote name='Cyd' timestamp='1337330972' post='4936470']
[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1337284868' post='4933196']
i took it off with no problem, the original glue was well past its prime...used a frearson tip screwdriver i have owned for years....no, i haven't hit it ..but this weekend may be the perfect timing.....
ray
[/quote]

I played today and hit a Hogan 4 wood I found at the thrift store. I put on a new grip and it was great. Best club I hit all day. It needs to be refinished thats why I was interested in your thread. I believe you'll love hitting it when you take it out for a test spin!

Good luck and enjoy!

Be sure to let us know how it does.
[/quote]

[Shallowface]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1337724060' post='4960450']
i played a few holes on sat. and sun. ...i hit this great classic side by side against a taylor made 2010 burner 3 wood with a 48 gram matrix ozik at 43 1/2 inches long...guess what ? with identical bridgestone e 6 balls, they both go the same distance from a great fairway lie.....!!
now, off of a low tee heighth, the burner wins by 9-11 yards ....no surprise....also, the persimmon achieves the same total flight heighth off of a great fairway lie...
anybody surprised ?[/quote]

I'm not.

I've never believed that metal fairway woods were superior to wood (laminated or persimmon). For me, the metal clubs have always in fact been inferior. I've only tried a couple hundred of them, so maybe I just haven't found the right shaft yet.

[jmck]

[quote name='Cyd' timestamp='1337330972' post='4936470']
[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1337284868' post='4933196']
i took it off with no problem, the original glue was well past its prime...used a frearson tip screwdriver i have owned for years....no, i haven't hit it ..but this weekend may be the perfect timing.....
ray
[/quote]

I played today and hit a Hogan 4 wood I found at the thrift store. I put on a new grip and it was great. Best club I hit all day. It needs to be refinished thats why I was interested in your thread. I believe you'll love hitting it when you take it out for a test spin!

Good luck and enjoy!

Be sure to let us know how it does.
[/quote]

I've got an early 80s Apex 4w that's been in my vintage/Sunday walker bag for years. EOM driver, Hogan 4w, 5, 7, 9, SW. For me that 4 wood fills 50+ yards of gap between the driver and the 5 iron. Just an amazingly versatile club--much more so than modern FWs and Hybrids IMO. It'll hit any shot you can dream up.

[jmck]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1337724060' post='4960450']
i played a few holes on sat. and sun. ...i hit this great classic side by side against a taylor made 2010 burner 3 wood with a 48 gram matrix ozik at 43 1/2 inches long...guess what ? with identical bridgestone e 6 balls, they both go the same distance from a great fairway lie.....!!
now, off of a low tee heighth, the burner wins by 9-11 yards ....no surprise....also, the persimmon achieves the same total flight heighth off of a great fairway lie...
anybody surprised ?
[/quote]

Per a Tom Wishon post in the club building forum, the COR of a decent persimmon wood is in the .75-.78 range. Given that very few modern fairway woods are maxed out at .83, you're looking at a very small difference when it comes to energy transfer. Also, if you put a 42.5" steel shaft in that Burner, you'd probably see its advantage off the tee disappear.

[rgolf06]

very good point, same shaft and length, smaller difference if any at all......

[Texsport]

I have an old MacGregor Ben Hogan oil hardened 4 wood that originally had no insert. it has spectacular, thick grain lines.....probably from the rootball of a tree. It has a very compact head.

In the early to mid 1970s, Tom Wishon and a partner owned a club repair shop in Bellairie, Texas.

They installed a white fiber insert into the club.

It is possibly the best 4 wood I've ever seen or hit.

Dave Wood has told me that during his time at MacGregor, he had many Tour pros verify that persimmon fairway woods were better than metal because they were practically as long, but much better at elevating shots from tight lies.

Texsport

[xgolfx]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1337943832' post='4975346']
I have an old MacGregor Ben Hogan oil hardened 4 wood that originally had no insert. it has spectacular, thick grain lines.....probably from the rootball of a tree. It has a very compact head.

In the early to mid 1970s, Tom Wishon and a partner owned a club repair shop in Bellairie, Texas.

They installed a white fiber insert into the club.
It is possibly the best 4 wood I've ever seen or hit.

Dave Wood has told me that during his time at MacGregor, he had many Tour pros verify that persimmon fairway woods were better than metal because they were practically as long, but much better at elevating shots from tight lies.

Texsport
[/quote]


I totally agree. My opinionis that every tour pro would carry a wooden trouble club if allowed by the manufacturers. Some type of a small head with a four ,five, or even six loft. It would be especially useful on a USOPEN. Venue. I also am of the opinion that such a club would most likely be declared non conforming

CHARLEY PENNA

[rgolf06]

charley

interesting comment...which makes me wonder....if i showed up to play in pga tour event , and in my bag i had brand new , vintage nos mac or woods bros persimmons , would they be conforming ?

ray

[xgolfx]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1338476273' post='5004948']
charley

interesting comment...which makes me wonder....if i showed up to play in pga tour event , and in my bag i had brand new , vintage nos mac or woods bros persimmons , would they be conforming ?

ray
[/quote]

[xgolfx]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1338476273' post='5004948']
charley

interesting comment...which makes me wonder....if i showed up to play in pga tour event , and in my bag i had brand new , vintage nos mac or woods bros persimmons , would they be conforming ?

ray
[/quote][quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1338476273' post='5004948']
charley

interesting comment...which makes me wonder....if i showed up to play in pga tour event , and in my bag i had brand new , vintage nos mac or woods bros persimmons , would they be conforming ?

ray



I am not sure, but I would not wager that a persimmon club would be conforming. Does anyone know how to ask the tour officials this question?

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

[Shallowface]

[quote name='rgolf06' timestamp='1338476273' post='5004948']
charley

interesting comment...which makes me wonder....if i showed up to play in pga tour event , and in my bag i had brand new , vintage nos mac or woods bros persimmons , would they be conforming ?

ray
[/quote]

Why wouldn't they conform?

They aren't going to violate any COR limits. They aren't going to be over 48 inches long. I don't think there's anything else to look at.

Mac O'Grady used persimmon woods in the Australian Senior Open in 2010 and finished 5th. To my knowledge, there wasn't any question about their conformity.

I also don't see any reason why the trouble club Charley mentions would be non-conforming. Cobra Bafflers were quite popular on tour in the 70s and 80s. There's nothing about that type of club that wouldn't conform under the current rules.

I'm having a lot of success with a couple of Bafflers (5 and 7) that combine the thick brass railed soleplate with a graphite head. Better than any metal wood I've ever hit. Two bucks each from a local thrift store.

Callaway owns the rights to the Ginty. They ought to make a line of fairway woods with their graphite "forged composite" material combined with the thick metal soleplate. Get them into peoples' hands at demo days and watch what happens. That weight distribution is simply far superior than anything made from metal and cannot be duplicated in metal. The all metal head Gintys were worthless compared to their wooden counterparts.

[Bella Woods]

Shallowface is right, and for the right reasons. There is no reason why a classic
(or "normal"other) persimmon wood (driver or fairway/rescue) would not conform
to the rules of golf (even at the pro level right now).

I could see where someone could change an old club or create a new one that would change
that if they really wanted to though.

Other than COR and the 48" rule, others that could come into play would be the sole to top
of crown height limit (I think 2 3/4" at this point) and the restrictions on total club width/length
"ratios". Non-conforming shaft and grips could mess things up as well.

Reading into it, I think Charleys main point [u][b]may[/b][/u] have been that the manufacturers/marketing
folks in the world would not want to see a pro playing a wood wood. Not good for business, or
the bottom line if it happened to "catch on"

[Shallowface]

I could see where someone could design a persimmon wood with a full face titanium insert that could conceivably be made thin enough to bring the COR question into play. There would probably have to be some empty space behind that insert to allow it to flex.

I think the nature of persimmon is self limiting to the point where it wouldn't be possible to make one of the size where the dimensions rules would come into question. You could probably violate one dimension or the other but not both. The result would likely be pretty odd looking.

Now, if someone shows up with an old driver with a leather Wilson Reminder Grip, then you'd have an issue. I'm not a fan of the idea of bifurcation of the rules, but if there was one area I'd make a change I'd allow the use of molded training style grips on all clubs for the masses (and the sky's the limit on possible designs). I've thought about installing a putter grip on a regular club turned to the right where the edge left of the flat spot would be perpendicular to the leading edge to the club. You then set your left thumb down the flat spot and you've got what looks to me like a pretty good grip. I just think something like this would get the beginner off to a better start, as well as allow the recreational player to be more consistent.

I agree with Bella that probably was the point Charley was making. Didn't Louisville Golf almost have a deal in place with someone to play a persimmon driver on tour a few years back, and that player decided to go with a metal driver instead?

[xgolfx]

[quote name='Shallowface' timestamp='1338555826' post='5010740']
I could see where someone could design a persimmon wood with a full face titanium insert that could conceivably be made thin enough to bring the COR question into play. There would probably have to be some empty space behind that insert to allow it to flex.

I think the nature of persimmon is self limiting to the point where it wouldn't be possible to make one of the size where the dimensions rules would come into question. You could probably violate one dimension or the other but not both. The result would likely be pretty odd looking.

Now, if someone shows up with an old driver with a leather Wilson Reminder Grip, then you'd have an issue. I'm not a fan of the idea of bifurcation of the rules, but if there was one area I'd make a change I'd allow the use of molded training style grips on all clubs for the masses (and the sky's the limit on possible designs). I've thought about installing a putter grip on a regular club turned to the right where the edge


left of the flat spot would be perpendicular to the leading edge to the club. You then set your left thumb down the flat spot and you've

got what looks to me like a pretty good grip. I just think something like this would get the beginner off to a better start, as well as allow


the recreational player to be more consistent.




My point is that the manufacturers would squelch any club which would not only cut into profit margins, but also would require craftsmen and equipment to produce. Just as you said CALLAWAY owns Ginty, Nicklaus owns my name. I cannot make a club, persimmon or metal that says Penna.


CHARLEY PENNA

I agree with Bella that probably was the point Charley was making. Didn't Louisville Golf almost have a deal in place with someone to play a persimmon driver on tour a few years back, and that player decided to go with a metal driver instead?
[/quote]

[majic]

Louisville made a driver for Bob Estes. A great driver. But he was enticed by money and pressure from his club sponsor. There is a patent on a Ti face inserted persimmon and louisville made some to that patent. The problem is the weight of the wood. Even if you hollow it out as much as practical it is around 255 cc's. Done it.
The manufacturers went to metal for cost and profit. They will never look back. Now i do think you could make a potent 3 wood. Who would invest to do ti though. No manufacturer. Tad

[Texsport]

There's a company marketing persimmon clubs,and particularly persimmon 3 woods, in Europe.

http://www.persimmongolfeurope.com/


Texsport

[Shallowface]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1339180924' post='5053852']
There's a company marketing persimmon clubs,and particularly persimmon 3 woods, in Europe.

[url="http://www.persimmongolfeurope.com/"]http://www.persimmongolfeurope.com/[/url]


Texsport
[/quote]

Looks like they get their products from Louisville Golf.

[Shambles]

I really ought to get my old Hogan Persimmons rebuilt before the old clubmakers disappear entirely. Their shafts rusted out. I just have too many other clubs that also need attention and I have an old set of Astron Maples that I put in play when the mood strikes. The old clubs do get the ball up more easily but they were built that way. The shafts were a bit softer and made to low kick points. Pro sets were made with higher kick points and stiffer shafts. Not much different from today's clubs but today's clubs allow easier shaft changes with less skill requirement.

This thread is making me itch.


Shambles