What makes a classic wedge 'classic'?

[teevons]

The auction ended yesterday on Ebay for that 1960-61 Wilson Staff Dynapower Sand Wedge....

[url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilson-Staff-Model-DYNA-POWERED-1960-1961-Sand-Wedge-/330713678835?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D230648126542%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7561499589043992598"]http://www.ebay.com/...499589043992598[/url]

Although it's not in as good condition as any of your MacGregors, it's far more than likely to be from the same custom family as the W/S Dynapower SW Tom Watson used to chip in on 17 at Pebble Beach on the 71st hole of the 1982 US Open.

And is the best answer to the question posed at the top of this thread..

just sayin...
[/quote]



I just found an old Classic Golf catalog from Farino, Classic Golf from 1990, they had that same wedge listed at 500.00

[dpark]

I play classic clubs on a regular basis and have acquired a large number of "classic" wedges from all different brands (pic below). As Charley Penna already stated, most of the older SWs were really meant to be played from the sand only. However, I prefer a SW that I can use both in the sand and around the green and have recently settled on one of two wedges that fit that bill: A Wilson Staff JPII 55* sand wedge and a Ben Hogan Special SI. Both have a curved leading edge as opposed to the knife blade leading edges of most of the older SWs and have both bounce and camber on the sole which makes tham much more playable outside of the sand. Neither are really "old", both being from the early 80s but they are still a far cry from modern wedges like Scratch, TM etc.

Bunch of odds and ends on the left (PGA, some old Macs, and a Spalding Johnny Miller), all my Wilsons in the center and the Hogans on the right.

[rex235]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1330198408' post='4374931']
For you Penna wedge fans I dug out a few I have. The Expediters are heavy.They are Pieces of art if you ask me.
Sorry Rex, no lefties
I really like the Penna VIP 11 with the older version of his signature on muscle pad. I think it has been rechromed in a satin finish

There are 2 Penna Wedges TP1 & TPA
TP VIP 65
EX 985
EX DX
EX LDX
VIP 11


Teevons/XgolfX-

Have found a RH "store" MacGregor Expediter.
Photos to follow.







[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1330186802' post='4373813']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1330104782' post='4367207']
So riddle me this. If you guys went out for a round today with vintage/classic/old clubs from the 30's or 40's what club and what shot would you play from a typical fluffy, modern country-club bunker?

You know, the kind of bunker where a butterfly would sink in up to his ankles if he landed on freshly power-raked sand?

If you take a <50 degree flat-flanged 9-iron or 10-iron and opened it up would it bounce OK? Or maybe better to just pick it clean.
[/quote]


When you speak of MacGregor wedges designed by Toney Penna, I think I know a little about the design theory. Remember, Toney was a player BEFORE his friendGene Sarazen( my grandfather and Sarazen's father were finishing carpenters, came over on the same boat from Sicily, and settled in Harrison, New York) invented the sand wedge. Any player worth his salt used a sand wedge ONLY in sand. The player nhad the skill to use a niblick or w nine iron to play any repeat any shot from grass. Also, the skilled player NEVER hit a wedge more than 70-80%.
I am prejudiced, but I think the Penna is the easiest playing SAND
club ever made

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]



[/quote]

[Rick Jeepster]

[quote name='weeicemon' timestamp='1330198327' post='4374925']
Everyone has their own opinion but for me, the Wilson Staff sand wedges from 1956-1961 were the best ever. These are the ones with the black "plug" on the sole. Versions from 1962 and up had a red "plug". There were so many tour players using these vintage wedges that their popularity (and prices) grew and grew. Tom Watson holed out on the 17th at Pebble with a vintage Wilson Staff SW. To me, it has always been easy to see which clubs were truly the best - look into a tour player's bag. Back in the late 50s, the 60s, & even the 70s, tour players played to put a roof over their family's head and food on the table. They weren't going to use equipment that was sub-standard. I would bet that there were more W/S sand wedges in play of the tour than any other wedge during this time. During the heyday of classic club collecting, the prices escalated with their popularity. I had a Japanese connection back in the 80s and remember selling a mint 1956-57 model for around $700.
[/quote] I have that 1961 model here in Sun City, Az

[Rick Jeepster]

[quote name='weeicemon' timestamp='1330198327' post='4374925']
Everyone has their own opinion but for me, the Wilson Staff sand wedges from 1956-1961 were the best ever. These are the ones with the black "plug" on the sole. Versions from 1962 and up had a red "plug". There were so many tour players using these vintage wedges that their popularity (and prices) grew and grew. Tom Watson holed out on the 17th at Pebble with a vintage Wilson Staff SW. To me, it has always been easy to see which clubs were truly the best - look into a tour player's bag. Back in the late 50s, the 60s, & even the 70s, tour players played to put a roof over their family's head and food on the table. They weren't going to use equipment that was sub-standard. I would bet that there were more W/S sand wedges in play of the tour than any other wedge during this time. During the heyday of classic club collecting, the prices escalated with their popularity. I had a Japanese connection back in the 80s and remember selling a mint 1956-57 model for around $700.
[/quote]

[Rick Jeepster]

[quote name='weeicemon' timestamp='1330198327' post='4374925']
Everyone has their own opinion but for me, the Wilson Staff sand wedges from 1956-1961 were the best ever. These are the ones with the black "plug" on the sole. Versions from 1962 and up had a red "plug". There were so many tour players using these vintage wedges that their popularity (and prices) grew and grew. Tom Watson holed out on the 17th at Pebble with a vintage Wilson Staff SW. To me, it has always been easy to see which clubs were truly the best - look into a tour player's bag. Back in the late 50s, the 60s, & even the 70s, tour players played to put a roof over their family's head and food on the table. They weren't going to use equipment that was sub-standard. I would bet that there were more W/S sand wedges in play of the tour than any other wedge during this time. During the heyday of classic club collecting, the prices escalated with their popularity. I had a Japanese connection back in the 80s and remember selling a mint 1956-57 model for around $700.
[/quote]

[obsessed_golfer]

The Spalding Johnny Miller Top-Flite wedge was a solid club. I still have mine and used it for many years along with my Top-Filite irons.

[donard]

I am surprised that nobody mentioned the Sand Hog by First Flight designed by Tony Penna. This club was my first specialist Sand Wedge and was a miracle club. Took all the fear of sand from my game . It had a hexagonal section shaft . Unfortunately someone stole mine a few years later. I did eventually find one in Myrtle Beach well used and rusty. This thread encouraged me to dig it out and use it this morning even though it was so rusty I could barely identify its name . The one occasion I had of using it it was a nice up and down which is increasingly rare for me nowadays.
Donard

[Coralray]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1336621788' post='4885854']
[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1330198408' post='4374931']
For you Penna wedge fans I dug out a few I have. The Expediters are heavy.They are Pieces of art if you ask me.
Sorry Rex, no lefties
I really like the Penna VIP 11 with the older version of his signature on muscle pad. I think it has been rechromed in a satin finish

There are 2 Penna Wedges TP1 & TPA
TP VIP 65
EX 985
EX DX
EX LDX
VIP 11


Teevons/XgolfX-

Have found a RH "store" MacGregor Expediter.
Photos to follow.







[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1330186802' post='4373813']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1330104782' post='4367207']
So riddle me this. If you guys went out for a round today with vintage/classic/old clubs from the 30's or 40's what club and what shot would you play from a typical fluffy, modern country-club bunker?

You know, the kind of bunker where a butterfly would sink in up to his ankles if he landed on freshly power-raked sand?

If you take a <50 degree flat-flanged 9-iron or 10-iron and opened it up would it bounce OK? Or maybe better to just pick it clean.
[/quote]


When you speak of MacGregor wedges designed by Toney Penna, I think I know a little about the design theory. Remember, Toney was a player BEFORE his friendGene Sarazen( my grandfather and Sarazen's father were finishing carpenters, came over on the same boat from Sicily, and settled in Harrison, New York) invented the sand wedge. Any player worth his salt used a sand wedge ONLY in sand. The player nhad the skill to use a niblick or w nine iron to play any repeat any shot from grass. Also, the skilled player NEVER hit a wedge more than 70-80%.
I am prejudiced, but I think the Penna is the easiest playing SAND
club ever made

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]



[/quote]
[/quote]

I have half a dozen Penna wedges from 1958 thru 1963 with various lofts, swing weights and bounces and find them among the best wedges of all time for sand play and are really handy for lob shots around the greens and the lighter ones are pretty good from the fairways. Teamed with the flat soled 11 iron from tourney sets from those years, such as a '59 PT1, makes for a great combo to this day. I just found a '61 D7 TP1 in mint condition with a perfect ceramic face, it is superb from bunkers, deep rough and spins great from fairways. I am always for considering the ground option and play the lofted shot only when required and find this combo to be a lot of fun to consider, to bounce or not to bounce, to punch or to pitch. I like the wedges with D4 to D7 swing weight because I find them better from the turf, though not as good from sand, than the heavier wedges. I have black button Wilson Staff sand wedges and find them to be awesome for the from-the-sand-only philosophy but less useful on the turf and are nearly useless beyond 40 yards, because they are soooo heavy. A D6 version of the typically E7 '58 Staff is the '78 JPII Custom Grind. Key to your enjoying any of these classic wedges is to keep in mind heft is better for trouble shots, while longer swings will benefit from lighter swing weights. You decide. I like the number 2 shafts too, and find softer wedge shafts give better feel on those 80% full swings.

[TimV]

So reviving this thread to get some clarification. Am I understanding correctly that what I have here is a "Penna" MacGregor Sand Wedge?

 

[rex235]

Tim-

 

Not just any "Penna" wedge-

 

You have the MacGregor DX "TP" logo Expediter, one of the last MacGregor Toney Penna clubs with his logo and design.

 

And yes....RH Only.

[kaboboom]

I give you the W/S Triple Duty Wedge. Great from the sand, or from the rough, and apparently, somewhere else.

[8bitpowerfade]

So by the following examples, a sand wedge is truly 'classic' when it fulfills the following criteria:

 

1. It's old. Like mid-century or older, old.

2. Has a goofy proprietary name like Equalizer, Expediter or the Sandinator.

[kaboboom]

sometimes...

[Shallowface]

I give you the W/S Triple Duty Wedge. Great from the sand, or from the rough, and apparently, somewhere else.

 

The fairway.

 

Which was often not the case with some of the sand wedges of the day and their E6 swingweights and huge amounts of bounce, which could be problematic on fairways whose only liquid nourishment in the summer months came from spilled beer.

 

When I started in the mid 70s, I can remember a Golf Digest article about pitching with a Sand Wedge. It said to make sure you pushed your hands way forward at address to take off some of the bounce. No one back then ever talked about using the bounce when pitching because if you did it was a guaranteed skull on most courses.

[8bitpowerfade]

sometimes...

 

Haha. I forgot about the Spalding Dynamiter! Well played, sir. Anyone found a Sandinator yet? I won't rest until I'm able to sandinate the peasants with the Sandinator wedge!

[rex235]

As we're finishing the volume on George Peters LH collection, there are just a few items we need to resolve-

 

Of all the Classic Wedges mentioned during the '50s-'70s period, Wilson Staff Dynapower Fluid Feel, Spalding Dynamiter, and the MacGregor Penna Expediter, only the MacGregor Penna and Expediter Sand Wedges were RH Only.

 

The MacGregor Winged MT Tourney Colokrom Sand Iron with the "TP" logo stamp is one of the very few LH MacGregor Sand Wedges with any reference to Toney Penna. If anyone has any LH Penna Wedge, or LH TP Expediter, please let me know.

 

The Walter Hagen Haig Ultra Sand Iron remains a notable club, as they exhibited the "Fluid Feel" characteristics found in the Wilson Staff Dynapower Wedges, and LH models were made in the '60s and '70s.

 

 

 

 

Have already posted the MacGregor Winged MT "TP" logo Sand Iron, the Wilson Dynapower Sand Wedge, and the Spalding Dynamiter photos.