How, if at all, is your scoring affected by playing an all classic kit?

[ScooterMcTavish]

And my update would be that things have now gone the other way, with better driving play, and challenges around the greens. Playing all vintage last week in league, I hung up a 44, the main culprit of which was 7 putts on the first two greens. Can't blame the kit for that.

Dropped the driver, and currently driving with my Hogan Persimmon 3W and getting much better results. There's something about the loft/shaft combo that obviously is working here. Oddly enough though, since I switched back to retro kit, I've been getting worse bounces off the tee than usual. If I hit toward trees, instead of the ball being between trees or rolling through, it will be against a tree. Funny how that sometimes is - must be the golf demons conspiring against my quest to play vintage.

However, I did change over from FG-17s to Apex IIs, and am finding the Hogans still a bit of a challenge. I like their lighter weight and cord grips, and have hit quite a few of them pure (beautiful). However, I still haven't developed the confidence with these that I had with the FG-17s. I think the lighter weight is allowing me to get a little quick on my tempo, and a little long on my backswing, and it's messing up my club path. But when I slow down my tempo, I feel like I'm waving a feather at the ball. The heavier FG-17s begged to be slowed down in the swing.

Grips are coming in the mail for the FG-17s this week anyways, so they may get another shot at the bag.

Well, for league this week the perimeter weighted Golfsmith putter is now out of the bag, replaced with a flanged Bullseye. Not sure I can get much more retro than this. And will report back on the score. Just need to find the right driver.

[oldschoolrocker]

SMac,
Glad to hear the update. I think we have spin more off these threads than TV shows off All in the Family.
Finding the right driver is like finding the right woman, it will happen when you least expect it.
If you have a preference for younger Blondes let me suggest the Ping Zing laminate. Perhaps a bit modern for your tastes, but am sure you wouldn't kick her out of the bag for eating crackers.

Randy

[ScooterMcTavish]

Yes, a lot of cross-pollination between the threads - though equipment, bag for all seasons, goodwill finds, and what to game all do have natural cross links.

LOL about the Ping Zing Blonde - though there is a black Eye 2 1W coming in the mail. I'm looking at it as pretty much the last hope for a wooden driver, as I found a larger deep-faced one (MacGregor Nicklaus Golden Bear), and it is simply too heavy for me to swing effectively.

Shot the classic kit in league last night, and a much different game than the week before. Had a devil of a time with the silencer off the tee, including (in this order):
- Weak 160 yd. slice into trees
- Swing over top toe hit line drive left to right 100 yds. into trees
- Swing underneath pop up 150 yds. to fairway
- Solid hit straight left out of bounds into lateral water hazard
- Weak slice 180 yds. into trees

Same score as last week - a 44. And speaking frankly, the woods off the tee are making me question using a pure vintage kit. Although everything else vintage will remain in the bag including the flanged bullseye, having teebox horror (as described in another spin-off) is taking my vintage kit fun away. I think the coffee can on a stick may be coming back.

[oldschoolrocker]

SMac,
We all go through driving slumps, at least those of us that don't live in a Mt. Olympus, or Asgard zip code.
Don't give up entirely on your search for your Mjolnir.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Two serious 9 hole rounds this weekend, one with my 13 yr old for company, and one by myself. Plus a few holes with my dad who talked while I was putting, in my backswing, etc. He's not a golfer, but he was in town so it was time to spend some time together. Maybe I can convince him to even swing a club when he comes visit next year.

Regardless, first round, all vintage except driver - 1 better than my course record. Ungodly day on the greens with putts and chips galore. +2 for 9.

Next round, not quite so efficient around the greens, and used my 300cc Dunlop Foremost driver for experimental purposes. Plus I pulled the FG-17s back out for a go. Net result, a +5, of which 3 strokes can be blamed on the slice machine known as my driver. So still pretty consistent, and well within my handicap. But again, a vintage stick (even a less vintage vintage club) hurt me off the tees.

Though the Hogans may be in the bag forever. After my lousy drive on the last hole (par 5) into 3" rough, a chopped 3i got me up to about 200 out. Smoked my persimmon 5W into a slight breeze, and ended up 5 yds over the green. Never ever hit a 5W in modern tech like that. Not just the distance, but the straightness too.

Sadly enough, My Ping Eye 2 1W arrived today, and I'm sure I'll be cursing it shortly. Unless it's Mjolnir.

[oldschoolrocker]

I don't remember Karsten Solheim ever being referred to as The Trickster, so I have faith in your latest hammer having the appropriate powers.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Oddly enough, went and hit a few shag balls with it tonight and it was easy to swing and make contact.

Anticipating my weekly trip to the course tomorrow.

[oldschoolrocker]

Not sure where to post this but this seems a good a place as any.
Just arrived back in town last evening. Youngest son wants to play today. Haven't touched a club I a while is not expecting much in the way of scoring, but think it will be a watershed day none the less. Last year the oldest picked up a set of persimmons and blades to play with on occasion and when his younger brother arrived at the house a few minutes ago with no clubs I starting scratching my head. However he quickly informed me he wants to play with one of my vintage sets including real woods today . So, he's taking the fg17s, a Louisville Golf Smart driver and an old Hogan speedslot 4 wood. This should be interesting. Couldn't convince him to use a Bullseye putter, but he is using an older Ping Pal.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Glad you brought this thread back Randy,

So I've been flipping between some experiments:
- FT3 with an XStiff shaft in it, your suggestion
- Titleist 975D 8.5* R shaft

My misses with the FT3 are better than my misses with the 975D. But when you hit the ball solid with the 975D, if feels and sounds fantastic.

However, after rereading our discussion, I realized that the Ping Eye 2 driver came home, was hit a few times with an impossibly slick grip, and promptly shelved. Maybe it's time to bring it out again.

Also, I read Dave Wood's refinishing blog for woods, and think the MacGregor I got from Uncle Bob might be a good candidate. Just waiting for my frearson bits in the mail, and then I can disassemble the driver. Unfortunately it does have some protruding screws right now, and although I tried it out, I'd rather wait until it's fully rebuilt before giving it a whirl.

Glad to hear the boys are embracing vintage as well.....they'll be better ballstrikers for it.

[oldschoolrocker]

Scott,
The eye2 may be a good candidate for you. I have the Karsten I, eye2, and Zing laminate drivers and find the eye2 way more to my liking than the others. It's actually my 2nd favorite, taking a backseat only to an EOM M65W. I find them to be similar only in swing weight and shaft frequency, two areas that I feel are optimum for an individuals own tempo fingerprint.
I have no idea what either are, need to have them checked and then setup a couple others the same and see how they perform. Another area of concern for me, more so with a driver and fairway woods than irons is the type of grip.
I have an SEOM M85W with the same shaft as the 65, but with a different grip, so I assume the swing weight is slightly different, that I just can't tame.
There was a reason back in the day that the big boys were really finicky about their drivers. Find one that suits your game and it is pure joy.
Good luck in your quest.

[Soloman1]

Sorry, I had a senior moment and posted in wrong thread . . .

[dbuck47]

I have been stuck in bogeyville this year, regardless of my choice of weapon. I broke out some more modern implements a week or so ago, in preparation for that stepchild of golf-the scramble. I do enjoy the fellowship, if the golf part not as much as playing one's own ball. I did smash a couple with my "newer" driver, an old Taylor 360 Ti with a UST Proforce shaft. Overall, though the tee to green performance does not suffer much; I am just hitting a longer club on my second shots, albeit more often from the fairway, especially with the PING Eye2 laminates. My scoring issues have been around the green and from sand. To date this season, I have only played about 36 holes, so that is a factor as well (I hope).

My current iron experiment is the Cleveland Classic Tour Action Blades. These are not marked as 588's nor as TA-1's. They have DG S400's. I picked up the partial set for $20 from a pawn shop. They may end up with more modern lofts since I have 3,4,5,8,9,PW. The 3-4-5 gaps are pretty good, but obviously 5-8 no so much. I haven't checked any of them yet, but I am thinking I may eventually have them set to something like 20-24-29-34-40-45.

My current putter is modern, but definitely a classic style. It is a Bullseye by Titleist Scotty Cameron Platinum Blade. It is a $5 Goodwill find. It has been cut very short; about 32-33 and has a larger PING grip, but has caused me to think I have been using too long a putter any way. I may have it lengthened to about 33.5-34, as opposed to my normal 35". This is the thin classic Bullseye shape rendered in carbon steel with the platinum finish. It feels great on a good strike. With a little modification, it could be "the one", to go with the 5 other "ones" in my closet.

I have been experimenting with some wedges true to my fellow scroungers here, all from Goodwill or Craigslist. A Macgregor Colorkrome repro, a Cleveland CG-10, a PING ZING shovel, and a PING MidBounce 56* have all been tried. The PING ZING shovel I am embarassed to say will be in the bag for scrambles. It is a comforting implement for no brainer 75 yard shots from good to shaggy lies. Definition of SHOVEL, though. For sand, I have returned to an old no-name copper 55* I have had for years, a very classic round and thin blade shape. For a utility wedge, my old Wilson JP pitching wedge will be in all bags. I just can't find anything that beats it for feel.

So my this year kit is shaping up like this:

PING Eye2 1-3-5, Cleveland 3-4-5-8-9-PW, a no-name 55* copper sand wedge, a Wilson Staff JP Pitching wedge, and the Bullseye Cameron putter. For scrambles, I will use a Taylor 360 ti driver, a Taylor Raylor 16*, Callaway 3-4 hybrids(20* and 23*), a PING ZING 5 iron and 53* Wedge. The irons, other wedges and putter will remain the same , but I will drop the 3 iron.

There is an individual stroke play tournament I plan to enter later this summer, and really want to play with my Staffs and Joe Powells, but am thinking the the wedges and putter will remain constant.

I will update after some more experience.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Keep us tuned in dbuck - these threads are great in that usually those going "classic" usually start with some trepidation, then become full blown converts when they realize their score does not really suffer using these beautiful old clubs. Soon enough, the vintage clubs will end up being the scramble gamers.

Of note Randy, I didn't regrip the Eye2 driver yet, but did clean and sand the grip, and have been encouraged so far. The ball leaves with a very low trajectory, but then it hits and runs forever (at least with a 2-piece ball). Guessing the club is not generating a large amount of backspin, and personally I don't really care how the shot looks, as the results have been very good (in fact, I would venture more accurate and consistent that with my modern thunderstick).

I do like your comment about the EOM, and when I get my frearson bits, I have one from Uncle Bob that is getting the Dave Wood refurbish treatment. Although the Ping results are good, it just doesn't have the same feel on a well struck shot as a solid block of persimmon does.

How is my scoring affected by an all classic kit? As of right now, it looks like my all classic kit scores as well as anything else I've played.

And I must also add that for anyone making the transition from a toaster on a stick to a wooden driver, a good intermediate club is a smaller cc metal driver like the Titleist 975D. Once you get used to the smaller metal driver, the transition to the wood is much easier. I think my issues last year were based on the fact I was trying to go directly from a toaster to wood, which definitely can cause confidence issues while standing on the first tee.

And it sure is nice having one swing again. I use the same smooth stroke with my driver as I do with my pitching wedge, which I believe had added the consistency to the driver play.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1401976070' post='9434981']
And I must also add that for anyone making the transition from a toaster on a stick to a wooden driver, a good intermediate club is a smaller cc metal driver like the Titleist 975D. Once you get used to the smaller metal driver, the transition to the wood is much easier. I think my issues last year were based on the fact I was trying to go directly from a toaster to wood, which definitely can cause confidence issues while standing on the first tee.
[/quote]

I've found I usually need a couple range sessions with the persimmons, minimum, before I try take them on the course. Going cold seems to raise the chance for the occasional junky shot off the tee.

With me not even playing blades at the moment, it might take even a bit more adjustment.

[Woodridge]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1407873125' post='9918907']
[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1401976070' post='9434981']
And I must also add that for anyone making the transition from a toaster on a stick to a wooden driver, a good intermediate club is a smaller cc metal driver like the Titleist 975D. Once you get used to the smaller metal driver, the transition to the wood is much easier. I think my issues last year were based on the fact I was trying to go directly from a toaster to wood, which definitely can cause confidence issues while standing on the first tee.
[/quote]

I've found I usually need a couple range sessions with the persimmons, minimum, before I try take them on the course. Going cold seems to raise the chance for the occasional junky shot off the tee.

With me not even playing blades at the moment, it might take even a bit more adjustment.
[/quote]

Completely agree on your comment regarding persimmon. I've put my Kenneth Smith woods in the bag for the rest of the season and went to the range tonight for the first time. Plain ugly is what it was. I hit shots I haven't hit in many a year. I plan on staying with them, but I can't make my Ping G-25 swing with these babies....it's just too loose. I'm going to have to make a shorter more under control swing. Fun nonetheless though and looking forward to getting it out on the course. I'll definitely be moving up another teebox when I bring these out. I probably lose 40 yards off the tee and another 10 yards with the Power Thrust irons vs the Redlines.

On another subject related to vintage golf, my handicap dropped 4 strokes this year switching to the Hogan Redlines from Ping I-20's. When I stopped chasing trying to improve via equipment and went back to the type of iron I played with as a kid, I got better. I can't say that I'll convert completely over to vintage for good because of my poor driving, but the irons are here to stay.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Great news Woody, I found the same thing when I started going vintage - my swing mechanics improved, and my handicap came down. Problem is that it takes a lot of work and repetition.

In my case, I just haven't had the time for either, so my handicap has suffered. Based on the tracking through our men's league, I have gone from as high as an 18 pre-vintage to a low of 10 last year, and now up to a 14 at the end of this year. The nasty "blow up hole" has snuck back into the game, which hurts the scorecard worse than the handicap.

And I'm a big proponent of the modern driver - as much as I enjoy playing with the persimmon or laminate (and I do still play persimmon FWs), the driver is one club I simply cannot switch out permanently.

If you haven't read it yet, the thread "A set for all seasons" is fantastic, and touches a lot on what clubs we should play, and how pedantic we should be about vintage. It seems our hesitation to put a modern driver in the bag is more borne from the expectations we place upon ourselves than the expectations of others.

[BIG STU]

I have to agree with Scooter on that whole heartly. Since coming on this forum and playing vintage again I have found out my ball striking has vastly improved when I go back to my moderns. I never considered myself a good ball striker except with the 9 iron and wedges. I walk some and play my vintage stuff. In reality I did not switch to really modern irons untill 2 years ago. I either played Mizuno MP-33 blades or my 80s remake Mac VIPs. Really did not switch from persimmon untill about 01 and 02. I played mini tours like that. The only thing that kept me competive was my short game and putting and being creative getting out of trouble. I do go out from time to time with my bare bones set up and walk. In all fairness my vintage stuff is not unfamiluar to me. The woods i actually play vintage with are my last gamers from 01 or so. When I play my black face Macgregors they are not unfamiluar because they were the old man's and i have been hitting them on and off since I was 14 or so. My Im-5 putter I have had since I was 14.
Getting back to the ball striking I played a few weeks ago with a lifelong friend of mine who himself is a good player and blade man also. i was playing my modern irons. After 9 holes he told me "I never remembered you being that good of a ball striker" I got to looking and I was hitting everything flush. I attribute that to playing my old stuff because there is not any forgiveness there. I remember one of my old mans sayings "God forgives but Mr MacGregor dont" and I will add niether does Mr Tony Penna. You gotta stay on it to hit those things. I was relaxing hitting balls with my old stuff the other day and one of the nosy old fart retirees at my club asked why do you hit those things especially the 1 iron? My simple answer was because I still can

[HoldenCornfield]

It's been almost a year since I made the switch from modern clubs to vintage, and I've been hooked. In fact, I have not played a single round with metal woods or any irons newer than 1978 since that first vintage round last October.

Since its been almost a year, I thought it would be interesting to answer the OP, "How if at all is your scoring affected by playing an all classic kit?" with my own numbers.

With modern clubs in 2013 I was averaging 85.5 strokes per round (19 recorded rounds) with 3 of those rounds under 80 (or 16% of the time). Since making the switch, I've played 44 rounds of vintage golf with an average score of 80.8, and have broken 80 18 times (or 41% of the time).

Even better, if I just take my scores for the last 3 months, I've averaged 78.7 strokes over those 15 rounds and have broken 80 an astounding (for me) 11 times (or 73% of the time).

Obviously, I've lost some distance switching from metal woods to persimmon, but I've offset that by moving up one set of tees for the majority of my rounds, though I've found that when I play from the 'titanium tees' my scoring is mostly unaffected.

With the vintage I'm also more accurate, hitting two more fairways and three more greens per round. My putting has dropped two strokes per round (despite a couple bouts of the yips), and in conjunction with the putting my Short Game Saves (defined as any hole where it takes two or fewer short game strokes (putts-chips-pitches-bunkers) is four strokes better.

I also tally another measure that I use as a proxy for my ball striking, or long game. For each round my spreadsheet adds my fairways hit with my greens hit and divides it by the total possible (which on most courses is 32). For moderns last year my ball striking was 54% and my short game saves was 38%. With the vintage over the last year I'm at 62% and 53%, and for the last three months 66% and 62%.


So, to what do I attribute the improvement?

First, increased interest in the game has led to more play and especially, practice.

Second, playing and practicing with clubs that provide more feedback and are better fit for me.

Third, a commitment to a single source and method of swing mechanics.

[golfnut1964]

I started using persimmon powerbilt citation about month ago. Instant feedback. Plus I just luv the look. Never liked looking down at a massive driver.
Ive been using hogan apex ftx for couple summers now, along with set of staff blades vintage 76-77. Also use wilson 8802 putter.

I hit some funky drives but its like having a swing coach walking with me-tells me right away what im doing wrong. I find im releasing the club head way better.
But when I do hit a good drive it is a sweet feeling.
The irons (prob not considered true "vintage" as i think they are mid 90s ?) are fantastic. I also use a short set-11 clubs. Two wedges-my equalizer along with a hogan 5612. My short game has gotten so much better.

So to answer the question-i feel using vintage gear is improving my game !

[oldschoolrocker]

Golfnut,
Glad you are adding to the resurgence back to the glory days. I find it interesting that we all have the same thoughts along our path to enlightenment with respect to the game. Continued joy in your journey.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='golfnut1964' timestamp='1413678962' post='10311945']
...Ive been using hogan apex ftx for couple summers now...The irons (prob not considered true "vintage" as i think they are mid 90s ?) are fantastic. I also use a short set-11 clubs. Two wedges-my equalizer along with a hogan 5612. My short game has gotten so much better.
[/quote]

If you like the feel of the FTX you should try some of the forged Hogan blade sets of the 70's and 80's. I had a set of the FTX as well, absolutely beautiful clubs, but they actually felt a little dull to me compared to sets such as the '78 Medallions, 80's Apex II (cameos), and '92 FT Worth's that I tried. Even the '67 PC7's felt better to me. The FTX were actually made in the mid 2000's and I think you'll find the older forgings to have a softer steel.

[golfnut1964]

thnx for that oldschool...holden it is sooo difficult as a lefty to find hogan anything, never mind hogan pre 80s. I would give somethin from the left side to be able to buy something like you suggested...a set of earl apex's or medallions along with a mac85 driver...i'd be in heaven.