Titliest 712 AP2 vs Titliest 712 CB differences

[Lamo70]

Can someone tell me the difference between the stock AP2 and stock CB irons? I was looking at both yesterday with Dynamic Gold S300 shaft and the CB felt heavier in my hands.

 

I'm a 10 hdcp, thinking of going to one of these models.

[Motley]

Go with the AP2s, they feel like butter.

[Lamo70]

Tkx for the input Motley.

[GC70]

I think the CB's look better and feel better IMO.

[jnradioactive]

swing weights are supposed to be the same (D2) but they don't list the static weight which would the the feel "in your hands" so hard to say if one if heavier than the other... but had to go wrong with AP2. Some snobs will come in and say they suck because you can't shave a cats @ss with the topline but they are great clubs...

[dhillis]

I had the 710 cb/mb combo last year and now have the 712 ap2's, both with x100's. I really like all three club heads, but the ap2's are slightly more forgiving. A bad swing still produces a bad shot and good swing is still good. My miss is towards the toe, maybe 1/2" off center and that's where the ap2 is better. It still loses distance, just not as much distance... it also tends to go straighter (less hook). Although I really haven't had a bad mishit in awhile and the ap2's generally just feel great.

My one and only complaint with the ap2's is they produce a higher ball flight, especially in to the wind. On trackman it does show more spin for me when comparing all three club heads. It's not terribly higher, just more noticeable in to the wind.

By the way, I usually score mid to high 70's and can play a variety of different shots. I found the ap2's to be just as easy to fade or draw. Ironically, I thought the ap2 heads felt heavier than the cb's. As a note, I did test all three club heads with the same shaft, length and grip.

[MrHack]

I tried both and went CB. Not because the AP2 are bad but because they flew to high for me. I'm a high ball hitter anyway so the CB was a great choice.

[ryancjordan]

[quote name='jnradioactive' timestamp='1342045554' post='5258640']
swing weights are supposed to be the same (D2) but they don't list the static weight which would the the feel "in your hands" so hard to say if one if heavier than the other... but had to go wrong with AP2. Some snobs will come in and say they suck because you can't shave a cats @ss with the topline but they are great clubs...
[/quote]

If the shafts are exactly the same and the grips are as well (pretty sure they all just have tour velvets) how could the head weight be the same while the static weight is different? The only variation in weight is coming from the head.

[jnradioactive]

[quote name='ryancjordan' timestamp='1342051393' post='5259068']
[quote name='jnradioactive' timestamp='1342045554' post='5258640']
swing weights are supposed to be the same (D2) but they don't list the static weight which would the the feel "in your hands" so hard to say if one if heavier than the other... but had to go wrong with AP2. Some snobs will come in and say they suck because you can't shave a cats @ss with the topline but they are great clubs...
[/quote]

If the shafts are exactly the same and the grips are as well (pretty sure they all just have tour velvets) how could the head weight be the same while the static weight is different? The only variation in weight is coming from the head.
[/quote]

Well it looks like you know everything then...

[MrHack]

FYI, I also felt that the AP2 was lighter than the CB was. I don't know why, but It did.

[kg92lefty]

Id go ap2, as much as Ive bashed them at a recent demo day I preffered them to the cb. The cb is close enough to the mb that I would just take the mb, plus the 712 ap2 looks a lot nicer at address than the 710. Imo.

[Lamo70]

I just hit the 712 ap2 and i really like it. Out of curiosity i tried a miura cb 501 and it was ok to hit but my mishits were awful.

[mickw]

Big difference in ball flight...at least for me. Like MrHack above, I'm a high ball hitter. I actually went to my Certified Titleist Fitting expecting to leave with the 712 AP2's. The trackman numbers (spin) and actual ball flight were considerably higher with the AP2's and the fitter basically said he would never put me in them. Tried the CB's and the numbers and flight were lower. After hard stepping once and -1 degree in loft...they are flying with a nice trajectory that I am more than happy to see. I actually loved the feel of the AP2's...just hit them too damn high, no matter what shaft they had in them.

[iH83Putting]

I just switched from the AP2s to the CB because I too am a high ball hitter. The AP2 is more forgiving on miss hits but when you hit the CB flush, it feels just as nice. All in all, I wish I kept the AP2s in the bag, even with the high ball flight. You cannot go wrong with the AP2!!!

[dciman1]

Why is the AP2 ball flight an issue when getting the correct shaft will bring it down?

[mickw]

[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342062707' post='5260248']
Why is the AP2 ball flight an issue when getting the correct shaft will bring it down?
[/quote]

Because for me, no matter what shaft I tried in the AP2 (at a regional Titleist Fitting Center)...it couldn't actually bring the spin numbers or the ball flight down.

[dciman1]

[quote name='mickw' timestamp='1342071790' post='5260792']
[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342062707' post='5260248']
Why is the AP2 ball flight an issue when getting the correct shaft will bring it down?
[/quote]

Because for me, no matter what shaft I tried in the AP2 (at a regional Titleist Fitting Center)...it couldn't actually bring the spin numbers or the ball flight down.
[/quote]

What shafts where you demoing, and what numbers were you getting with your 6 iron?

[mickw]

[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342270852' post='5273498']
[quote name='mickw' timestamp='1342071790' post='5260792']
[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342062707' post='5260248']
Why is the AP2 ball flight an issue when getting the correct shaft will bring it down?
[/quote]

Because for me, no matter what shaft I tried in the AP2 (at a regional Titleist Fitting Center)...it couldn't actually bring the spin numbers or the ball flight down.
[/quote]

What shafts where you demoing, and what numbers were you getting with your 6 iron?
[/quote]

KBS C-Taper, DG s300, DG x100, DG s400, and Project X were tried on multiple heads (AP2, CB, TM R11, Mizuno MP-59). My spin numbers with a 6 iron were in the 6900-7100 range with the AP2's, no matter what shaft was in it. Spin numbers were 6100 range with the CB's and the DG s300. Spin numbers were in the 5000 range with the R11 and DG s300. I can't remember what the MP-59 numbers were but it didn't matter as I didn't like the feel of them at all.

[dciman1]

My 6 spin numbers were in the mid 6000's area some a little higher some a little lower with KBS-Ctaper S flex and Project X 6.0's. Carry was in the 187 to 190 area with the C-Taper. Project X carry was as far as 201 and both shafts launch was in the 17° to 19° area. Ball speed was in the 128 to 132 area. The balls were different brands.

[jnradioactive]

[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342392221' post='5281366']
My 6 spin numbers were in the mid 6000's area some a little higher some a little lower with KBS-Ctaper S flex and Project X 6.0's. Carry was in the 187 to 190 area with the C-Taper. Project X carry was as far as 201 and both shafts launch was in the 17° to 19° area. Ball speed was in the 128 to 132 area. The balls were different brands.
[/quote]

Hmm your ball speed was right at PGA tour average yet your carry was beating PGA tour average for carry by 4 to 18yds. Impressive, sounds like the wind might have up a notch on the LM.

[dciman1]

[quote name='jnradioactive' timestamp='1342393137' post='5281432']
[quote name='dciman1' timestamp='1342392221' post='5281366']
My 6 spin numbers were in the mid 6000's area some a little higher some a little lower with KBS-Ctaper S flex and Project X 6.0's. Carry was in the 187 to 190 area with the C-Taper. Project X carry was as far as 201 and both shafts launch was in the 17° to 19° area. Ball speed was in the 128 to 132 area. The balls were different brands.
[/quote]

Hmm your ball speed was right at PGA tour average yet your carry was beating PGA tour average for carry by 4 to 18yds. Impressive, sounds like the wind might have up a notch on the LM.
[/quote]

I don't know if the monitor was juiced or not. Both sets are mine and the fitter had no reason to sell me something, but the monitor may have been juiced from a previous fitting. The PX are +1/4 inch over standard and 1 deg flat, and the C-Taper is 2 deg flat, and supposed to be standard length. I've had the PX a little longer and with field testing the ball flight and distance are amazing with the ball finishing up very close to the pitch mark so the monitor's numbers have to be very close to actual because of me shooting the distances with my Pinseeker. I was hoping the C-Taper was going to be it because of the PX vs C-Taper review thread, but the fitter told me the PX's numbers were more consistent and the distance lacked in the C-Taper but the C-Taper feeling was unbelievable. I'll be getting rid of the KBS set.

[Lamo70]

I'm still undecided. I like the AP2 look, but the CBs feel nice. Are they that much different? If I went CB, will it really make a difference?

[Bryn]

i went with the AP2's cos i like the higher flight.
Started to get tuned in with them now, deffo will stay with me for a couple of years.
Love them

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Lamo70' timestamp='1343749648' post='5384088']
I'm still undecided. I like the AP2 look, but the CBs feel nice. Are they that much different? If I went CB, will it really make a difference?
[/quote]

Yes.

I've played both sets.

The CBs are basically designed to play like a blade...with just a little bit of forgiveness, and just a little bit of help getting the ball up in the air in the longer clubs. When flushed they feel great and are very accurate. But whenever you miss the sweetspot by more than just a little bit, you will lose both distance and direction.

The AP2, are designed to play like a GI iron, but still be easily workable. They hit the ball higher than the CB2s...but in return you get much more forgiveness of thin shots or toe shots.

The Ap2 will treat you much less roughly on the days where your swing is a bit off.

[Lamo70]

tkx for the replies guys !

[hashrogers]

i play to about a 10 or so. Using MP 58s which are fairly close to CBs. Switching to AP2s. More forgiving.

[station2station]

Amazing how many WRX guys ditched the AP2's due to high ball flight when Dufner, Watney, Stricker, Zach Johnson, Webb Simpson, and a zillion other tour professionals don't have an problem with them.

[benthegolfer]

[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1357780572' post='6200373']
Amazing how many WRX guys ditched the AP2's due to high ball flight when Dufner, Watney, Stricker, Zach Johnson, Webb Simpson, and a zillion other tour professionals don't have an problem with them.
[/quote]

This post belongs on every anti-AP2 thread out there. +10000

[Instant Offense]

If the average WRX'er had any clue how high the pros hit their irons they would embrace the high ball flight. Penetrating is only a good thing in wedge play.

[iH83Putting]

[quote name='benthegolfer' timestamp='1357781219' post='6200471']
[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1357780572' post='6200373']
Amazing how many WRX guys ditched the AP2's due to high ball flight when Dufner, Watney, Stricker, Zach Johnson, Webb Simpson, and a zillion other tour professionals don't have an problem with them.
[/quote]

This post belongs on every anti-AP2 thread out there. +10000
[/quote]

Just to spur on your comment about how high the pros hit the ball. My fitter recommended the 712 CB and then bend them 2* strong to lower the ball flight. I hit the ball HIGH!