Hogan had a baseball swing

[TeeAce]

Jeff Martin did some nice side by sides of hogan pre secret and it clearly showed the left forearm is more rotated post secret . As we all know hogan used a much weaker grip post secret . Also his right elbow got less pitchy by that time at that point in his swing.

Put it up against the 1954 stills , totally different

 

First you should understand how much rotation happens in maybe 2 inch distance before comparing two shots. Then you need to know what shot has been made.

 

But still the biggest paradox ever is someone claiming more forearm rotation makes hitting more steady and prevents hook. Sometimes I wonder if people who are claiming this has ever hit the ball themselves.

 

And BTW, Kelvin and Jeffy are much talking about same than me. Keeping the face pointing toward the target longer and opening it relative to the vertical arc at impact area. That cant fit to supination and adding forearm rotation, no matter how it's done. And the secret is still what Sam Snead said and what is visible here

 

 

Some day maybe we can reach the level "how to do it"

[ray ray]

noooo Kelvin and Jeffy are not talking the same as you and that's a fact. Kelvin has a video where he says he totally disagrees with you about what Hogan did, it's right on youtube. And Jeffy for sure doesn't agree with you, all anyone has to do is read that at ralphs gotham forum. you make up stuff.

[ray ray]

Jeff Martin did some nice side by sides of hogan pre secret and it clearly showed the left forearm is more rotated post secret . As we all know hogan used a much weaker grip post secret . Also his right elbow got less pitchy by that time at that point in his swing.

Put it up against the 1954 stills , totally different

 

First you should understand how much rotation happens in maybe 2 inch distance before comparing two shots. Then you need to know what shot has been made.

 

But still the biggest paradox ever is someone claiming more forearm rotation makes hitting more steady and prevents hook. Sometimes I wonder if people who are claiming this has ever hit the ball themselves.

 

And BTW, Kelvin and Jeffy are much talking about same than me. Keeping the face pointing toward the target longer and opening it relative to the vertical arc at impact area. That cant fit to supination and adding forearm rotation, no matter how it's done. And the secret is still what Sam Snead said and what is visible here

 

 

Some day maybe we can reach the level "how to do it"

 

already has supinated

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1349249704' post='5742533']
noooo Kelvin and Jeffy are not talking the same as you and that's a fact. Kelvin has a video where he says he totally disagrees with you about what Hogan did, it's right on youtube. And Jeffy for sure doesn't agree with you, all anyone has to do is read that at ralphs gotham forum. you make up stuff.
[/quote]

No Footwedge, he said what I showed was totally right and what I said was wrong. And all that because he didn't listen what I said and confused UD and PF. Everyone can find that by watching bot of those videos. I didn't say a word about UD and Kelvin was saying it was my main point.

[doram101]

Jeff Martin did some nice side by sides of hogan pre secret and it clearly showed the left forearm is more rotated post secret . As we all know hogan used a much weaker grip post secret . Also his right elbow got less pitchy by that time at that point in his swing.

Put it up against the 1954 stills , totally different

 

First you should understand how much rotation happens in maybe 2 inch distance before comparing two shots. Then you need to know what shot has been made.

 

But still the biggest paradox ever is someone claiming more forearm rotation makes hitting more steady and prevents hook. Sometimes I wonder if people who are claiming this has ever hit the ball themselves.

 

And BTW, Kelvin and Jeffy are much talking about same than me. Keeping the face pointing toward the target longer and opening it relative to the vertical arc at impact area. That cant fit to supination and adding forearm rotation, no matter how it's done. And the secret is still what Sam Snead said and what is visible here

 

 

Some day maybe we can reach the level "how to do it"

 

Hang on, stop changing the subject or the boundaries again! Put up the 1954 pics against the 1946 pics and let everyone else decide for themselves if the forearm is in anything like the same position

 

And that photo you use above just now is taken at an angle from well in front of Hogan , not even close to face on caddy view .

 

Nobody said anything about trying to add forearm rotation . It's simply a matter of Hogan having a weaker grip and a path that was less rightwards post secret that allowed him to release the club head better .

 

Even earlier there is a driver swing where he had even a stronger grip ( face at top was very shut) before hillcrest 46 and had even more pronated left forearm holding off the release , but the ball flight laws still killed him when the face closed too much due to being to far right with his path.

By 1946 he had started to move it towards where he ended up , by 48 , 49 he got even better . Post accident he shifted his path a little more left again , didn't have to make these hold off moves on stock standard full swings

 

This is why guys don't like the "try and swing low and left with the open triangle theory " as being the way to get at it , it's not imop .

 

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1349250549' post='5742551']


you think Kelvin with all his knowledge is going to mix up ud and pf, ...that's too funny! you're the mixed up one.
[/quote]

Just listen those videos from beginning. I didn't mention UD once there and Kelvin was talking only about that. So who was confusing what. I talked about PF and Kelvin said my claim what UD is doing is wrong. How the hell it could be wrong because there was not one word about UD?

[ray ray]

tapio was told this before about the path of hogan, he ignores the d-plane.

[ray ray]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349250817' post='5742561']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1349250549' post='5742551']
you think Kelvin with all his knowledge is going to mix up ud and pf, ...that's too funny! you're the mixed up one.
[/quote]

Just listen those videos from beginning. I didn't mention UD once there and Kelvin was talking only about that. So who was confusing what. I talked about PF and Kelvin said my claim what UD is doing is wrong. How the hell it could be wrong because there was not one word about UD?
[/quote]


thats not the video/s i'm talking about. you said Kelvin and jeff m. agree with you and i said they don't and the proof is right out there for anyone to read and hear. you are lying about that.

[ray ray]

3:07 mark Kelvin doesn't quite agree with teeace.


[url="http://youtu.be/UfOQxr9HKWA"]http://youtu.be/UfOQxr9HKWA[/url]

[Pinsplitter59]

Japanese game shows make more sense than this thread

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1349252248' post='5742597']
3:07 mark Kelvin doesn't quite agree with teeace.


[media=]http://youtu.be/UfOQxr9HKWA[/media]
[/quote]

And still talks about UD....

I have been asking few times how those things were measured, but no one seems to know exactly. And yes, I know how it's done and also why it can mislead us.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349257679' post='5742693']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349226483' post='5741099']
[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349221946' post='5740613']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349140843' post='5734653']
lol now i feel like a house wife or middle school teacher.
[/quote]
[/quote]

wuzzup HG101 I don't follow?
[/quote]

You don't know what's wrong with your post? Wtf...ok, maybe it's a culture thing, what are you trying to say with that post?
[/quote]

That was my response to you saying "for the record, who started it".

In other words, I was pointing out that you act like a child on these forums. You setup multiple user names (HG101, SVS, ray ray, doram1, etc), talk like a condescending know-it-all who for some reason knows so much that he must hide behind a keyboard, and you make relentless personal attacks against TeeAce (among others).

It's a shame because you could add to the discussion but instead you act like such a troll that these threads become unreadable.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349271282' post='5743289']
[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349257679' post='5742693']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349226483' post='5741099']
[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349221946' post='5740613']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349140843' post='5734653']
lol now i feel like a house wife or middle school teacher.
[/quote]
[/quote]

wuzzup HG101 I don't follow?
[/quote]

You don't know what's wrong with your post? Wtf...ok, maybe it's a culture thing, what are you trying to say with that post?
[/quote]

That was my response to you saying "for the record, who started it".

In other words, I was pointing out that you act like a child on these forums. You setup multiple user names (HG101, SVS, ray ray, doram1, etc), talk like a condescending know-it-all who for some reason knows so much that he must hide behind a keyboard, and you make relentless personal attacks against TeeAce (among others).

It's a shame because you could add to the discussion but instead you act like such a troll that these threads become unreadable.
[/quote]

TD, that's why I don't respond to any of his posts any more. Some people just want to make flames and they are not here to help others.

All I do for the moment for his attacks is to push the report button and hope others do the same if it continues. There are enough people here to share and have good discussion about golf, but some guys just make all clever people disappear after a while.

ps. IMO ray ray is not one of HG's nicks. Exactly same phrases, same questions, same language, same schedule etc... than one other "nice guy" in other forums, but not HG

[ej002]

Doram101 is HG101 - that makes sense.

BTW, I think the baseball thing is a great place to start, I kind of forgot about it for a while. One of the drills I used to do was just take baseball swings with a golf club. I think if you take the club back w/o sucking it inside and then just drop it back - like you are getting ready to hit a fast ball, the layoff and pitch elbow is just automatic. I was so excited I went to my park last night and was hitting balls under a street lamp, lol. Felt great. I had to get really far left (right for me) to get the face to square. Felt like I was dropping the hammer on a low inside pitch and taking it down the right field line (i am LH). Hello.

[doram101]

I'm not hogangolf101 either , but yeah I can see how you would ignore my recent post since it actually makes sense . Your " trick picture" was exposed for what it is . I m certain you don't like being exposed for being ignorant as to how hogans swing morphed over the years . There is some smart cookies around here that know hogan way better than you , most likely because they have had access to better information on the man from closer observers

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273076' post='5743473']
Doram101 is HG101 - that makes sense.

BTW, I think the baseball thing is a great place to start, I kind of forgot about it for a while. One of the drills I used to do was just take baseball swings with a golf club. I think if you take the club back w/o sucking it inside and then just drop it back - like you are getting ready to hit a fast ball, the layoff and pitch elbow is just automatic. I was so excited I went to my park last night and was hitting balls under a street lamp, lol. Felt great. I had to get really far left (right for me) to get the face to square. Felt like I was dropping the hammer on a low inside pitch and taking it down the right field line (i am LH). Hello.
[/quote]

EJ, now you have found the way to do it. Great to hear.

[ej002]

[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1349273379' post='5743509']
I'm not hogangolf101 either , but yeah I can see how you would ignore my recent post since it actually makes sense . Your " trick picture" was exposed for what it is . I m certain you don't like being exposed for being ignorant as to how hogans swing morphed over the years . There is some smart cookies around here that know hogan way better than you , most likely because they have had access to better information on the man from closer observers
[/quote]

Convenient that SVS logs out and you conveniently show up to respond.

[ej002]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349273413' post='5743513']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273076' post='5743473']
Doram101 is HG101 - that makes sense.

BTW, I think the baseball thing is a great place to start, I kind of forgot about it for a while. One of the drills I used to do was just take baseball swings with a golf club. I think if you take the club back w/o sucking it inside and then just drop it back - like you are getting ready to hit a fast ball, the layoff and pitch elbow is just automatic. I was so excited I went to my park last night and was hitting balls under a street lamp, lol. Felt great. I had to get really far left (right for me) to get the face to square. Felt like I was dropping the hammer on a low inside pitch and taking it down the right field line (i am LH). Hello.
[/quote]

EJ, now you have found the way to do it. Great to hear.
[/quote]

No hold offs either. Just let er rip.

I obviously need more time with this as a park session probably is not the definitive test, but I like it so far...

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273439' post='5743517']
[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1349273379' post='5743509']
I'm not hogangolf101 either , but yeah I can see how you would ignore my recent post since it actually makes sense . Your " trick picture" was exposed for what it is . I m certain you don't like being exposed for being ignorant as to how hogans swing morphed over the years . There is some smart cookies around here that know hogan way better than you , most likely because they have had access to better information on the man from closer observers
[/quote]

Convenient that SVS logs out and you conveniently show up to respond.
[/quote]

And HG comes next. These guys just seem to wake up same time every day... hand in hand maybe...

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273492' post='5743523']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349273413' post='5743513']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273076' post='5743473']
Doram101 is HG101 - that makes sense.

BTW, I think the baseball thing is a great place to start, I kind of forgot about it for a while. One of the drills I used to do was just take baseball swings with a golf club. I think if you take the club back w/o sucking it inside and then just drop it back - like you are getting ready to hit a fast ball, the layoff and pitch elbow is just automatic. I was so excited I went to my park last night and was hitting balls under a street lamp, lol. Felt great. I had to get really far left (right for me) to get the face to square. Felt like I was dropping the hammer on a low inside pitch and taking it down the right field line (i am LH). Hello.
[/quote]

EJ, now you have found the way to do it. Great to hear.
[/quote]

No hold offs either. Just let er rip.
[/quote]

Yep. No niid to hold off. Just fire through with all you got as you keep the handle moving fast. The "hold off" is done at transition and that torque that starts there takes care about the rest.

[ej002]

SVS - HG - DORAM

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349273089' post='5743477']
Hey TD, maybe you missed your mama taking care of you huh, that's why you think housewives ad middle school teachers are stupid?! You piece of sh1t!
[/quote]

who said I think they're stupid? I said they have to deal with children

[doram101]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349273541' post='5743527']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349273439' post='5743517']
[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1349273379' post='5743509']
I'm not hogangolf101 either , but yeah I can see how you would ignore my recent post since it actually makes sense . Your " trick picture" was exposed for what it is . I m certain you don't like being exposed for being ignorant as to how hogans swing morphed over the years . There is some smart cookies around here that know hogan way better than you , most likely because they have had access to better information on the man from closer observers
[/quote]

Convenient that SVS logs out and you conveniently show up to respond.
[/quote]

And HG comes next. These guys just seem to wake up same time every day... hand in hand maybe...
[/quote]

I think you are enjoying the diversion away from your basic lack of knowledge when it comes to hogans swing . It shows when you put up pictures to prove something with a swing from a different era . Hogan had several eras or morphs of his swing . Must cut to the bone to be check mated so easily , it was like playing a beginner at chess , kinda like you look like when holding a golf club

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1349274422' post='5743627']

who said I think they're stupid? I said they have to deal with children
[/quote]

Lol...my bad...sorry about that...my apologies.

[dpb5031]

I follow the Hogan threads a lot but don't post much largely because I am not as well versed and knowledgeable as many of you. I generally enjoy the the discourse and listening to the different theories and ideas. Sometimes I even give them a try with my own swing. I don't mind the arguing back and forth, as long as it is civil, with each party explaining the merits of his respective theory/ideas.

That said...every time TeeAce enters these discussions, several posters appear out of the woodwork and try to discredit his ideas. In most cases those slamming him often don't retort with viable arguments, they simply insult him, say that he is wrong, and often end with an ambivalent question (that they really don't want answered) like "how do you suppose Hogan did this or that?" It's really quite juvenile and tiresome.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1349278335' post='5744127']
I follow the Hogan threads a lot but don't post much largely because I am not as well versed and knowledgeable as many of you. I generally enjoy the the discourse and listening to the different theories and ideas. Sometimes I even give them a try with my own swing. I don't mind the arguing back and forth, as long as it is civil, with each party explaining the merits of his respective theory/ideas.

That said...every time TeeAce enters these discussions, several posters appear out of the woodwork and try to discredit his ideas. In most cases those slamming him often don't retort with viable arguments, they simply insult him, say that he is wrong, and often end with an ambivalent question (that they really don't want answered) like "how do you suppose Hogan did this or that?" It's really quite juvenile and tiresome.
[/quote]

Guilty as charged DPB. But note that we were discussing as you like it until Tapio began condescending in me. I think you're being unfair here.

Also, I think just reading doram101's posts to Tapio tell a lot, especially if you reverse engineer Tapio's posts...

[ej002]

Funny Doram101 logged out and SVS logged in post then logged out and Doram101 is back on. So stupid. Where is HG101? Can he come out to play?

[dpb5031]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349278732' post='5744167']
[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1349278335' post='5744127']
I follow the Hogan threads a lot but don't post much largely because I am not as well versed and knowledgeable as many of you. I generally enjoy the the discourse and listening to the different theories and ideas. Sometimes I even give them a try with my own swing. I don't mind the arguing back and forth, as long as it is civil, with each party explaining the merits of his respective theory/ideas.

That said...every time TeeAce enters these discussions, several posters appear out of the woodwork and try to discredit his ideas. In most cases those slamming him often don't retort with viable arguments, they simply insult him, say that he is wrong, and often end with an ambivalent question (that they really don't want answered) like "how do you suppose Hogan did this or that?" It's really quite juvenile and tiresome.
[/quote]

Guilty as charged DPB. But note that we were discussing as you like it until Tapio began condescending in me. I think you're being unfair here.

Also, I think just reading doram101's posts to Tapio tell a lot, especially if you reverse engineer Tapio's posts...
[/quote]

Well, maybe I'm not smart enough to do the reverse engineering. Honestly, I find Tapio's theories interesting. Is it because he disagrees with a certain "school of thought" or dogma that brings out the vitriolic criticism? I really don't get why it has to get so personal.

[dairic]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1349278732' post='5744167']
[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1349278335' post='5744127']
I follow the Hogan threads a lot but don't post much largely because I am not as well versed and knowledgeable as many of you. I generally enjoy the the discourse and listening to the different theories and ideas. Sometimes I even give them a try with my own swing. I don't mind the arguing back and forth, as long as it is civil, with each party explaining the merits of his respective theory/ideas.

That said...every time TeeAce enters these discussions, several posters appear out of the woodwork and try to discredit his ideas. In most cases those slamming him often don't retort with viable arguments, they simply insult him, say that he is wrong, and often end with an ambivalent question (that they really don't want answered) like "how do you suppose Hogan did this or that?" It's really quite juvenile and tiresome.
[/quote]

Guilty as charged DPB. But note that we were discussing as you like it until Tapio began condescending in me. I think you're being unfair here.

Also, I think just reading doram101's posts to Tapio tell a lot, especially if you reverse engineer Tapio's posts...
[/quote]

Come on HGSVSDORAM101, it's time to bury the hatchet with tapio already. Both of you have so much valuable knowledge that its sad to see these threads spiral down to bickering and personal attacks.

Btw have you posted your swing yet?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1349279420' post='5744241']


Well, maybe I'm not smart enough to do the reverse engineering. Honestly, I find Tapio's theories interesting. Is it because he disagrees with a certain "school of thought" or dogma that brings out the vitriolic criticism? I really don't get why it has to get so personal.
[/quote]

No. My point is he's the one who got personal first. Back then called people respectfully disagreeing with him as idiotics. Recently we were discussing nicely and he condescended on me. So these are just vapor trails. This Tapio guy needs someone who will stand up to his face.