Why do you hate JDM?

[guisician]

Seeing the tone of recent threads, thought maybe this would help somehow...

 

Ready, GO!

[Thrillhouse]

It won't.

[guisician]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1358231456' post='6230923']
It won't.
[/quote]

I know you're right but still felt compelled to try...

[Badgergolfer2]

This should be interesting...

[Spoon]

nice try.

[iH83Putting]

I hate JDM because of the price and it's too expensive for me to ho!

[morebeerbettergolf]

I hate it because I'd have to win the lottery to try all the things out there that intrigue me. Then when I got done trying them all I'd have to win the lottery again to try all the new stuff that had come out since I started trying the other stuff.

[Woodridge]

I don't hate them. I've hit them and they're fine golf clubs. I played forged irons for over 40 years before switching to ping last year. A nice feeling forged iron isn't the be all/end all to me. I play golf to get the ball in the hole, not for how it feels for that instant that the ball is on the club face. If I played for feel, I'd be using a set of original Hogan sunburst irons and Macgregor persimmon woods because those clubs have the best "feel" to me of any clubs I have ever hit. I mention feel a lot because when I read threads in this section, that seems to be the biggest lure of JDM equipment . That in itself is interesting to me because Japanese companies have historically been leading in achieving engineering break throughs. Yet, I don't see any discussion of that when it comes to golf equipment. Lastly, it is a turnoff to me that some people feel that because they own JDM equipment that they are better than those who don't. Or worse yet, that those of us who don't are "poors" and somehow less than them because of the golf clubs we choose to buy.

I seldom post in this section except to comment on someone's new sticks or ask about a club now and again. I have no axe to grind against JDM fans or clubs. I enjoy seeing the pictures of JDM irons, they sure are pretty...no denying that. I just don't have a deep desire to own a set or I would. I don't think that makes me a hater.....I just view golf and what I want from my clubs differently that many folks who own JDM models.

[jnradioactive]

I don't think its the equipment as much as the users that people hate. Some can be quite boorish

[morebeerbettergolf]

[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1358265083' post='6232281']
I don't hate them. I've hit them and they're fine golf clubs. I played forged irons for over 40 years before switching to ping last year. A nice feeling forged iron isn't the be all/end all to me. I play golf to get the ball in the hole, not for how it feels for that instant that the ball is on the club face. If I played for feel, I'd be using a set of original Hogan sunburst irons and Macgregor persimmon woods because those clubs have the best "feel" to me of any clubs I have ever hit. I mention feel a lot because when I read threads in this section, that seems to be the biggest lure of JDM equipment . That in itself is interesting to me because Japanese companies have historically been leading in achieving engineering break throughs. Yet, I don't see any discussion of that when it comes to golf equipment. Lastly, it is a turnoff to me that some people feel that because they own JDM equipment that they are better than those who don't. Or worse yet, that those of us who don't are "poors" and somehow less than them because of the golf clubs we choose to buy.

I seldom post in this section except to comment on someone's new sticks or ask about a club now and again. I have no axe to grind against JDM fans or clubs. I enjoy seeing the pictures of JDM irons, they sure are pretty...no denying that. I just don't have a deep desire to own a set or I would. I don't think that makes me a hater.....I just view golf and what I want from my clubs differently that many folks who own JDM models.
[/quote]

Good post.

We've been told by the "haterz" that there isn't anything better about the design of JDM that is better than USDM so no one even tries to bring up technology anymore. I touched on tech in my OP in the original "Why do you".. thread. JDM simply offers a greater variety of forged cavity backs with austere looks and GI features. It is hard to find US irons with any GI in them that aren't gaudy or just plain ugly. I like that you can buy a solid (not hollow or welded multi piece) s20c forged iron with tungsten inserts to give extra forgiveness without looking like something from the future. I like that the drivers have the CG up high and front to keep the ball down and spin down. The sound and feel of a Japanese forged driver is sublime. There is definitely a tuning preference in the US for tingy hot feeling drivers, whereas the JDM is more muted and much more of a THWACK.

[Arafel]

[quote name='jnradioactive' timestamp='1358265818' post='6232351']
I don't think its the equipment as much as the users that people hate. Some can be quite boorish
[/quote]

Yep. It's the same problem as Scotty Cameron putters.......great clubs.......many snobby "followers".

[Woodridge]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358266681' post='6232439']
[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1358265083' post='6232281']
I don't hate them. I've hit them and they're fine golf clubs. I played forged irons for over 40 years before switching to ping last year. A nice feeling forged iron isn't the be all/end all to me. I play golf to get the ball in the hole, not for how it feels for that instant that the ball is on the club face. If I played for feel, I'd be using a set of original Hogan sunburst irons and Macgregor persimmon woods because those clubs have the best "feel" to me of any clubs I have ever hit. I mention feel a lot because when I read threads in this section, that seems to be the biggest lure of JDM equipment . That in itself is interesting to me because Japanese companies have historically been leading in achieving engineering break throughs. Yet, I don't see any discussion of that when it comes to golf equipment. Lastly, it is a turnoff to me that some people feel that because they own JDM equipment that they are better than those who don't. Or worse yet, that those of us who don't are "poors" and somehow less than them because of the golf clubs we choose to buy.

I seldom post in this section except to comment on someone's new sticks or ask about a club now and again. I have no axe to grind against JDM fans or clubs. I enjoy seeing the pictures of JDM irons, they sure are pretty...no denying that. I just don't have a deep desire to own a set or I would. I don't think that makes me a hater.....I just view golf and what I want from my clubs differently that many folks who own JDM models.
[/quote]

Good post.

We've been told by the "haterz" that there isn't anything better about the design of JDM that is better than USDM so no one even tries to bring up technology anymore. I touched on tech in my OP in the original "Why do you".. thread. JDM simply offers a greater variety of forged cavity backs with austere looks and GI features. It is hard to find US irons with any GI in them that aren't gaudy or just plain ugly. I like that you can buy a solid (not hollow or welded multi piece) s20c forged iron with tungsten inserts to give extra forgiveness without looking like something from the future. I like that the drivers have the CG up high and front to keep the ball down and spin down. The sound and feel of a Japanese forged driver is sublime. There is definitely a tuning preference in the US for tingy hot feeling drivers, whereas the JDM is more muted and much more of a THWACK.
[/quote]

Fair enough, thanks for the reply. If those aspects of JDM equipment have been discussed, I have missed them. But, I don't read of ton of threads in here either. By the way, I see you have a Cog Hill hat as your avatar. Where abouts in IL are you? I'm near Joliet.

[morebeerbettergolf]

Kankakee area...played a couple courses in Joliet last year including a park district course with an island green for an inclusive scramble, I want to say Bushwood but I know that isn't right...It was one of the ones with coolers of beer at different holes, free drinks from cart girl, keg beer at the turn, prime rib at the end deals. It got sloppy... I have a friend in Bolingbrook and one in Aurora, and another buddy that works in Tinley so Joliet is a good place to meet up and golf inexpensively. Come spring we ought to golf

[jaskanski]

It's not that JDM clubs in themselves generate a lot of hate, it's just that the cult following who hold them as "superior" are wrong. I'm not saying that they are of any better or lesser quality than anything else, but to define them as the technical and aesthetic superior to anything else is just plain wrong. I call it the "Emperors Clothes Syndrome" in that many devotees of the JDM brand dare not call them into question for fear of ridicule. On the face of it, most people who hold them in such high esteem have probably never tried them. And even then, those that [i]do [/i]own them probably just look at them rather than hit them. It's a bit like the swiss watch market which is full of such folklore BS too.
I can see both sides of the coin as being a long time Titleist 690 MB user, I now currently play Mizuno MP-33's. Are the Mizzy's vastly superior? Absolutely not. Are they every bit as good? Heck yes.
I'm sure somebody will drone on for hours about their super rare niche forging of some unknown JDM wedge and how it out performs and feels better than anything on the market, based on the design and manufacturing prowess of master craftsmen of samurai heritage. But by the same token you will find the same folks who only wear Patek Phillipe watches and drive Ferraris for the same reason. For the most part, they are marketed deliberately at this aspiration level of mystique and passed on reputation. If they were somewhat cheaper, I could understand more (cue the guy saying: "do you realise what goes into making blah, blah,blah...?") Er...yes I do.
Hence the level of hate. I'd better go and hide now - I can hear some ninja's outside...

[Woodridge]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358272493' post='6233061']
Kankakee area...played a couple courses in Joliet last year including a park district course with an island green for an inclusive scramble, I want to say Bushwood but I know that isn't right...It was one of the ones with coolers of beer at different holes, free drinks from cart girl, keg beer at the turn, prime rib at the end deals. It got sloppy... I have a friend in Bolingbrook and one in Aurora, and another buddy that works in Tinley so Joliet is a good place to meet up and golf inexpensively. Come spring we ought to golf
[/quote]

That sounds like Inwood...my home course. And yes, that would be great. Let's plan on it.

[vanla01]

I hate jdm clubs because it's making me broke and too dam expensive to keep on hoing!!

[morebeerbettergolf]

[quote name='jaskanski' timestamp='1358273607' post='6233153']
It's not that JDM clubs in themselves generate a lot of hate, it's just that the cult following who hold them as "superior" are wrong. I'm not saying that they are of any better or lesser quality than anything else, but to define them as the technical and aesthetic superior to anything else is just plain wrong. I call it the "Emperors Clothes Syndrome" in that many devotees of the JDM brand dare not call them into question for fear of ridicule. On the face of it, most people who hold them in such high esteem have probably never tried them. And even then, those that [i]do [/i]own them probably just look at them rather than hit them. It's a bit like the swiss watch market which is full of such folklore BS too.
I can see both sides of the coin as being a long time Titleist 690 MB user, I now currently play Mizuno MP-33's. Are the Mizzy's vastly superior? Absolutely not. Are they every bit as good? Heck yes.
I'm sure somebody will drone on for hours about their super rare niche forging of some unknown JDM wedge and how it out performs and feels better than anything on the market, based on the design and manufacturing prowess of master craftsmen of samurai heritage. But by the same token you will find the same folks who only wear Patek Phillipe watches and drive Ferraris for the same reason. For the most part, they are marketed deliberately at this aspiration level of mystique and passed on reputation. If they were somewhat cheaper, I could understand more (cue the guy saying: "do you realise what goes into making blah, blah,blah...?") Er...yes I do.
Hence the level of hate. I'd better go and hide now - I can hear some ninja's outside...
[/quote]

Your post makes some excellent posts, and there is no question that the mystique and exclusivity plays a role in a lot of the JDM craze. No doubt about it.

On the other hand, I have to disagree with people bring "wrong for holding JDM clubs as superior." I contend that most people buy clubs (or cars or clothes or rubbers or bubble gum or cheap hookers) based on the feeling that they are superior to the other offerings. That's just common sense.

If you're saying that it is wrong to be an elitist snob because you have JDM...then you're 100% correct.

[jaskanski]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358275182' post='6233293']
[quote name='jaskanski' timestamp='1358273607' post='6233153']
It's not that JDM clubs in themselves generate a lot of hate, it's just that the cult following who hold them as "superior" are wrong. I'm not saying that they are of any better or lesser quality than anything else, but to define them as the technical and aesthetic superior to anything else is just plain wrong. I call it the "Emperors Clothes Syndrome" in that many devotees of the JDM brand dare not call them into question for fear of ridicule. On the face of it, most people who hold them in such high esteem have probably never tried them. And even then, those that [i]do [/i]own them probably just look at them rather than hit them. It's a bit like the swiss watch market which is full of such folklore BS too.
I can see both sides of the coin as being a long time Titleist 690 MB user, I now currently play Mizuno MP-33's. Are the Mizzy's vastly superior? Absolutely not. Are they every bit as good? Heck yes.
I'm sure somebody will drone on for hours about their super rare niche forging of some unknown JDM wedge and how it out performs and feels better than anything on the market, based on the design and manufacturing prowess of master craftsmen of samurai heritage. But by the same token you will find the same folks who only wear Patek Phillipe watches and drive Ferraris for the same reason. For the most part, they are marketed deliberately at this aspiration level of mystique and passed on reputation. If they were somewhat cheaper, I could understand more (cue the guy saying: "do you realise what goes into making blah, blah,blah...?") Er...yes I do.
Hence the level of hate. I'd better go and hide now - I can hear some ninja's outside...
[/quote]

Your post makes some excellent posts, and there is no question that the mystique and exclusivity plays a role in a lot of the JDM craze. No doubt about it.

On the other hand, I have to disagree with people bring "wrong for holding JDM clubs as superior." I contend that most people buy clubs (or cars or clothes or rubbers or bubble gum or cheap hookers) based on the feeling that they are superior to the other offerings. That's just common sense.

If you're saying that it is wrong to be an elitist snob because you have JDM...then you're 100% correct.
[/quote]

Well, that's the crux of the question my friend. How can you unequivocally quantify the superiority of anything? Least of all an inanimate object such as a golf club?

[chiromikey]

[quote name='jaskanski' timestamp='1358275451' post='6233329']
[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358275182' post='6233293']
[quote name='jaskanski' timestamp='1358273607' post='6233153']
It's not that JDM clubs in themselves generate a lot of hate, it's just that the cult following who hold them as "superior" are wrong. I'm not saying that they are of any better or lesser quality than anything else, but to define them as the technical and aesthetic superior to anything else is just plain wrong. I call it the "Emperors Clothes Syndrome" in that many devotees of the JDM brand dare not call them into question for fear of ridicule. On the face of it, most people who hold them in such high esteem have probably never tried them. And even then, those that [i]do [/i]own them probably just look at them rather than hit them. It's a bit like the swiss watch market which is full of such folklore BS too.
I can see both sides of the coin as being a long time Titleist 690 MB user, I now currently play Mizuno MP-33's. Are the Mizzy's vastly superior? Absolutely not. Are they every bit as good? Heck yes.
I'm sure somebody will drone on for hours about their super rare niche forging of some unknown JDM wedge and how it out performs and feels better than anything on the market, based on the design and manufacturing prowess of master craftsmen of samurai heritage. But by the same token you will find the same folks who only wear Patek Phillipe watches and drive Ferraris for the same reason. For the most part, they are marketed deliberately at this aspiration level of mystique and passed on reputation. If they were somewhat cheaper, I could understand more (cue the guy saying: "do you realise what goes into making blah, blah,blah...?") Er...yes I do.
Hence the level of hate. I'd better go and hide now - I can hear some ninja's outside...
[/quote]

Your post makes some excellent posts, and there is no question that the mystique and exclusivity plays a role in a lot of the JDM craze. No doubt about it.

On the other hand, I have to disagree with people bring "wrong for holding JDM clubs as superior." I contend that most people buy clubs (or cars or clothes or rubbers or bubble gum or cheap hookers) based on the feeling that they are superior to the other offerings. That's just common sense.

If you're saying that it is wrong to be an elitist snob because you have JDM...then you're 100% correct.
[/quote]

Well, that's the crux of the question my friend. How can you unequivocally quantify the superiority of anything? Least of all an inanimate object such as a golf club?
[/quote]
why does anyone have to quantify to anoyone else their subjective (and sometimes objective) opinions on superiority? if a certain brand watch, car, or golf club gives a person more enjoyment in ownership then what's it to anyone else to say otherwise?

[jaskanski]

My point exactly. I may have read it wrong, but morebeerbettergolf would have us believe that: "I contend that most people buy clubs....based on the feeling they are superior to other offerings". That would be the JDM clubs I assume? Nothing wrong with having that opinion, but previously stating: "I have to disagree with people being wrong for holding JDM clubs as superior" seems to reinforce the theory of perceived elitism amongst JDM fan bases.
Can you see the difference? It's not that they believe they are right in their choice of product, it's that they believe everybody else is wrong.

[morebeerbettergolf]

You're interpreting my post wrong. What I am saying is that people buy things based on their perception of superiority compared to other offerings, or perceived value. People who buy JDM clubs feel they are superior. People who buy Cobras or Titleist or Ping or TM probably feel those products are superior, or present a higher level of value/performance than other offerings. You said it is wrong for people to feel that JDM is superior. It isn't wrong to think or feel JDM is superior any more than it is wrong to be a Ping fanboi. What's wrong is trying to shove one's product preference down other people's throats or to imply that one is stupid for making a buying decision. I was trying to guess at what you meant in your post and I covered both bases.

[jaskanski]

Given your responses in at least three separate threads along the same sort of topic, I think we can safely say which side of the fence you're sitting on. Here's a thought though - the more anybody goes on about a particular topic, or the more vocal they are about a particular brand, the more desperate they seem to sound they need reassurance they made the right choice. If JDM are as good as they appear to be, they would not need the constant threads about their integrity. Are they not capable of standing up to criticism on their own merits? They do not need a (yet another) voice. You like JDM - I'm happy for you. But to keep going on about it? Can you see where the hate stems from? good grief.

[morebeerbettergolf]

So I just say that it is great to like whatever you want as long as you don't shove it down someone's throat...I was agreeing with you, and you reply with this?

Is my writing that hard to interpret or...

Has the whole world gone insane!?!?!?!

[KDMullins]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358283709' post='6234349']
So I just say that it is great to like whatever you want as long as you don't shove it down someone's throat...I was agreeing with you, and you reply with this?

Is my writing that hard to interpret or...

Has the whole world gone insane!?!?!?!
[/quote]

The point is it's all subjective, and alot of folks that like JDM equipment seem to think that the people who do not are somehow wrong and/or misinformed.

[AUDuffer]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358283709' post='6234349']
So I just say that it is great to like whatever you want as long as you don't shove it down someone's throat...I was agreeing with you, and you reply with this?

Is my writing that hard to interpret or...

Has the whole world gone insane!?!?!?!
[/quote]

+1 on this one; your opinion is no more wrong than jaskanski's. Jaskanski, we can see which side of the fence you sit, but is that any worse--or better? The guy asked a simple question wanting to get a normal answer. If he'd wanted to be like someone shoving a product down a person's throat he could have titled the post "Anything not JDM blows" and then you'd probably have more reason to fire one off, but that wasn't the case.

The other thing I want to know, is if people want to bash one side or the other why bother reading the post? If you don't like JDM then don't come into the forum just like I choose not to read certain forums or threads; I'm not interested so I don't waste my time.

[chiromikey]

it's ironic that when jdm guys say their clubs feel softer than anything, someone always jumps in and says it's subjective and there's no way their opinion can be justified...however, all the times i've posted on the jdm websites that my cobra s3 pros are softer than any of the top jdm irons i have, nobody attacks me. in fact, they show genuine intrigue more than anything else. also, i've never thought a scotty had the value to justify the cost...but i've never gone on that section of the forum and attacked anyone or put them in a position where they felt compelled to defend their brand decision.

whatever the reason is that causes people to point fingers at jdm (or any high end material object) owners, i'm sure i'll never know...but i do see how some people might get riled when pushed to defend their choice to spend extra money on something they feel has enough (perceived) value to offset the cost.

[Mitchell]

I don't hate golf equipment or anything else for that matter, however, I do have a strong dislike for those that imply that any person's choices for their game/budget/enjoyment are somehow lacking in merit just because their opinion differs from the person making the judgement.

[freehb]

I hate JDM clubs because they make me confront my materialism...I have always taken some degree of pride in being frugal(ish). I do buy nice things but always stuff that is functional and necessary for a purpose....this appeals to me. I dislike the notion of buying disposable things....things that will be out of my life in a couple years or less. i have always enjoyed collections (stamps, books, coins) but have never spent a lot of money on those pursuits. with JDM clubs I have quickly accumulated a mountain of gear that I couldn't wear out in a lifetime...it seems beyond a collection to me...mostly I love JDM clubs but when the bills come a little hate creeps in...

[freehb]

[quote name='jaskanski' timestamp='1358281068' post='6234009']
Given your responses in at least three separate threads along the same sort of topic, I think we can safely say which side of the fence you're sitting on. Here's a thought though - the more anybody goes on about a particular topic, or the more vocal they are about a particular brand, the more desperate they seem to sound they need reassurance they made the right choice. If JDM are as good as they appear to be, they would not need the constant threads about their integrity. Are they not capable of standing up to criticism on their own merits? They do not need a (yet another) voice. You like JDM - I'm happy for you. But to keep going on about it? Can you see where the hate stems from? good grief.
[/quote]

I've read a lot of morebeer's posts and honestly ski I think you are really talking a little crazy here....it's pretty funny though...

[freehb]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1358283709' post='6234349']
So I just say that it is great to like whatever you want as long as you don't shove it down someone's throat...I was agreeing with you, and you reply with this?

Is my writing that hard to interpret or...

Has the whole world gone insane!?!?!?!
[/quote]

not the whole world...not all at the same time anyway...just all of us at least at some point in our lives.

hang in there more beer, I love your analogies!