The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Millbrook]

Jim

 

Power grip left hand.

 

It seems to me that "lifting" the club with the left hand llike it is a brief case puts the left hand in the right place.

 

Certainly the club butt is well under the pad.

 

Is this true or am I missing something.

 

Martin Chuck recently recommended gripping the club like that and called it - the briefcase grip!

[Jim Waldron]

Jim

 

Power grip left hand.

 

It seems to me that "lifting" the club with the left hand llike it is a brief case puts the left hand in the right place.

 

Certainly the club butt is well under the pad.

 

Is this true or am I missing something.

 

Yes, that makes sense.

[4pillars]

Jim

 

Power grip left hand.

 

It seems to me that "lifting" the club with the left hand llike it is a brief case puts the left hand in the right place.

 

Certainly the club butt is well under the pad.

 

Is this true or am I missing something.

 

Martin Chuck recently recommended gripping the club like that and called it - the briefcase grip!

 

Yes

 

I heard it before - Martin Chucks video reminded me - , but spent the morning seeing how it tied to Jim's Powergrip

[rteach1]

To give credit where it is due, and Martin did, that grip and name came from Michael Jacobs out of Manorville, NY.

[4pillars]

You can also put the club on your left hand side so it is touching the ground.

 

It's very slightly different feel

 

Tracey Reed teaches it

 

[4pillars]

To give credit where it is due, and Martin did, that grip and name came from Michael Jacobs out of Manorville, NY.

 

 

Here we are:

 

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim, I have a question about the proximity of the right elbow to the right hip from get set to impact.

 

Doing the super connection drill from the advanced arms module, I was trying to isolate the difference in feel between:

 

1) maintaining the angle of the lead arm across chest from get set (p6) to impact. open shoulders and hips at impact

2) flinging your upper arms at the ball from p6 to impact. square shoulders and hips at impact with weak strike

 

Obviously I want 1 and not 2. I've been following the instructions in your drill where you set the angle without moving your shoulders.

 

From doing this drill last few days, I noticed that I got less arm slapping when I tried to keep my right elbow close to my right hip longer from p6 to impact. Am I on the right track with this feel?

 

Also, it seems like there's a fine line between not slapping with your arms and never releasing. It seems when I can manage to keep my arms and grip supple, it will release but when I try too hard to control my downswing, everything tightens up and I either slap or don't release.

[Jim Waldron]

Hi Jim, I have a question about the proximity of the right elbow to the right hip from get set to impact.

 

Doing the super connection drill from the advanced arms module, I was trying to isolate the difference in feel between:

 

1) maintaining the angle of the lead arm across chest from get set (p6) to impact. open shoulders and hips at impact

2) flinging your upper arms at the ball from p6 to impact. square shoulders and hips at impact with weak strike

 

Obviously I want 1 and not 2. I've been following the instructions in your drill where you set the angle without moving your shoulders.

 

From doing this drill last few days, I noticed that I got less arm slapping when I tried to keep my right elbow close to my right hip longer from p6 to impact. Am I on the right track with this feel?

 

Also, it seems like there's a fine line between not slapping with your arms and never releasing. It seems when I can manage to keep my arms and grip supple, it will release but when I try too hard to control my downswing, everything tightens up and I either slap or don't release.

 

Yes - right elbow, actually truly upper right arm is a more accurate statement, glued to your belly and chest is a good feel to have. Upper half of upper left arm also glued to chest during Release. Hogan talked often about both of those aspects of SuperConnection. "Release" is with wrists un-c0cking, and upper arms and forearms rolling counter-clockwise, and some of the angle in the right elbow also straightening - it has nothing to do with the upper arms moving off the chest. That is a common mis-perception in golf. Only after impact will pivot momentum pull your upper arms across mid-line. You also need to be rightward tilting and rotating properly for Release to be full, free and correct.

[stickner]

Wow this is the thread to end all threads!

 

I have only read through the first 10 pages or so... But I read far enough to end up checking out this video:

 

Well - it clicked! My index is currently a 10.2. I used to be a low single-digit index golfer. My index fluctuated between 0.2 and about 3 for the last 7 years I played before I stopped playing. Until this year, I played very little golf for the last decade. I have never had a "model" swing and have always been a streaky ball-striker. I had a very high variance for being a scratch player. When my timing was on I struck the ball great and could fire low scores, when it was off, I stunk and would put up high numbers!

 

Something clicked when I watched that simple 8 minute video that Jim recorded in that link above. I have been hitting balls with this swing thought for the past week and a half and I have been flushing it. I played a really tough track on a very windy day yesterday and put a 78 on the board. That was the absolute worst I could have scored. It was one of those rounds where it could have easily been 7 or 8 shots lower. I was striping it. I also gained back all of the distance I had lost.

 

My questions:

 

I know there are several videos on Jim's site. There is also his book. I am not sure the capital funds committee would approve me buying each of the videos...

 

Is the book enough to start with?

Is there perhaps one video that stands out that I should get?

 

I have literally gone from semi-scraping it around to hitting the ball as well as I did a decade ago in the matter of a single range session. I have also maintained this and taken it to the course. I am never gonna play for any real trophy's at any kind of serious level, and maybe I should just leave well enough alone, but I want to learn more and be as good as I can be.

 

I would have read this entire thread but that would literally take DAYS! Hoping someone has suggestions on a path forward for me.

 

Jim, a special thanks for kindly sharing all of your knowledge!!!

[mc3jack]

Wow this is the thread to end all threads!

 

I have only read through the first 10 pages or so... But I read far enough to end up checking out this video:

 

Well - it clicked! My index is currently a 10.2. I used to be a low single-digit index golfer. My index fluctuated between 0.2 and about 3 for the last 7 years I played before I stopped playing. Until this year, I played very little golf for the last decade. I have never had a "model" swing and have always been a streaky ball-striker. I had a very high variance for being a scratch player. When my timing was on I struck the ball great and could fire low scores, when it was off, I stunk and would put up high numbers!

 

Something clicked when I watched that simple 8 minute video that Jim recorded in that link above. I have been hitting balls with this swing thought for the past week and a half and I have been flushing it. I played a really tough track on a very windy day yesterday and put a 78 on the board. That was the absolute worst I could have scored. It was one of those rounds where it could have easily been 7 or 8 shots lower. I was striping it. I also gained back all of the distance I had lost.

 

My questions:

 

I know there are several videos on Jim's site. There is also his book. I am not sure the capital funds committee would approve me buying each of the videos...

 

Is the book enough to start with?

Is there perhaps one video that stands out that I should get?

 

I have literally gone from semi-scraping it around to hitting the ball as well as I did a decade ago in the matter of a single range session. I have also maintained this and taken it to the course. I am never gonna play for any real trophy's at any kind of serious level, and maybe I should just leave well enough alone, but I want to learn more and be as good as I can be.

 

I would have read this entire thread but that would literally take DAYS! Hoping someone has suggestions on a path forward for me.

 

Jim, a special thanks for kindly sharing all of your knowledge!!!

 

eep

[NDS55]

New member here, and first post.

I came across this thread, and have spent a lot of time over the last two weeks reading the entire thing. The concept is so brilliant, and obvious, that it is amazing that a bigger deal of it isn't being made by more instructors. There are some notables who do, but for some reason, most golfers aren't taking notice. I had seen the original video on the internet, but it just seemed like another gimmick. I have been golfing for forty years, and like the vast majority, not really improving, but I decided to try what Jim is demonstrating, and am completely blown away. It is extremely easy to grasp the whole 'arms in front' method. While it feels weak, the power is there, it's just more effortless, As I said, there are others teaching somewhat similar concepts, but they aren't putting out the same quality or even quantity of content that comes with Waldron's Swing Philosophy.

I tried ordering the books, but couldn't get the shipping arrangements completed through Papal for some reason, could be because of the Canadian peso. Will probably check out the videos, but would prefer to get the whole works at once, if a bundled discount ever becomes available. My only concern, is the number of posts from those who have bought the videos, claim fantastic results, and then come back with basic questions on angles and positions that have already been covered in the videos that Kiwi has posted and Jim has discussed on numerous occasions.

[Jim Waldron]

Wow this is the thread to end all threads!

 

I have only read through the first 10 pages or so... But I read far enough to end up checking out this video:

 

Well - it clicked! My index is currently a 10.2. I used to be a low single-digit index golfer. My index fluctuated between 0.2 and about 3 for the last 7 years I played before I stopped playing. Until this year, I played very little golf for the last decade. I have never had a "model" swing and have always been a streaky ball-striker. I had a very high variance for being a scratch player. When my timing was on I struck the ball great and could fire low scores, when it was off, I stunk and would put up high numbers!

 

Something clicked when I watched that simple 8 minute video that Jim recorded in that link above. I have been hitting balls with this swing thought for the past week and a half and I have been flushing it. I played a really tough track on a very windy day yesterday and put a 78 on the board. That was the absolute worst I could have scored. It was one of those rounds where it could have easily been 7 or 8 shots lower. I was striping it. I also gained back all of the distance I had lost.

 

My questions:

 

I know there are several videos on Jim's site. There is also his book. I am not sure the capital funds committee would approve me buying each of the videos...

 

Is the book enough to start with?

Is there perhaps one video that stands out that I should get?

 

I have literally gone from semi-scraping it around to hitting the ball as well as I did a decade ago in the matter of a single range session. I have also maintained this and taken it to the course. I am never gonna play for any real trophy's at any kind of serious level, and maybe I should just leave well enough alone, but I want to learn more and be as good as I can be.

 

I would have read this entire thread but that would literally take DAYS! Hoping someone has suggestions on a path forward for me.

 

Jim, a special thanks for kindly sharing all of your knowledge!!!

 

Thanks for your positive feedback, and great to hear the ASI concept has helped you to breakthrough to better ballstriking!

 

Which video or videos to start with is a question I get asked a lot: like pretty much everything in golf, the answer is - it depends. On your current skill level primarily. Most folks get an initial breakthrough from watching that old 1997 video of mine on ASI, which is just one small very simple demo of the ASI concept. In reality, ASI is way more comprehensive than what is demonstrated in that clip. I encourage everyone to buy Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion, as it is over two hours in length and very in depth explanation of the Illusion and of the drills you need to do to "de-construct" the Illusion from your subconscious mind Swing Map. Module Three: Advanced Arm Mechanics takes the ASI concept to a more technical level of understanding.

 

Module One is four two plus hour videos devoted to the foundation fundamental of ballstriking - grammar school and high school combined is one way to think of it. Almost nobody who is around a ten handicap and higher has mastered all of these vitally important fundamentals.

 

The e-book is very detailed and chock full of information, best to use it to supplement the videos in my opinion.

 

Good luck!

[Jim Waldron]

New member here, and first post.

I came across this thread, and have spent a lot of time over the last two weeks reading the entire thing. The concept is so brilliant, and obvious, that it is amazing that a bigger deal of it isn't being made by more instructors. There are some notables who do, but for some reason, most golfers aren't taking notice. I had seen the original video on the internet, but it just seemed like another gimmick. I have been golfing for forty years, and like the vast majority, not really improving, but I decided to try what Jim is demonstrating, and am completely blown away. It is extremely easy to grasp the whole 'arms in front' method. While it feels weak, the power is there, it's just more effortless, As I said, there are others teaching somewhat similar concepts, but they aren't putting out the same quality or even quantity of content that comes with Waldron's Swing Philosophy.

I tried ordering the books, but couldn't get the shipping arrangements completed through Papal for some reason, could be because of the Canadian peso. Will probably check out the videos, but would prefer to get the whole works at once, if a bundled discount ever becomes available. My only concern, is the number of posts from those who have bought the videos, claim fantastic results, and then come back with basic questions on angles and positions that have already been covered in the videos that Kiwi has posted and Jim has discussed on numerous occasions.

 

Thanks for your report and glad to hear ASI is helping you so much!

 

I agree - the concept is revolutionary, and would get more attention if folks actually understood it. The reason is simple - the Illusion and it's ramifications are not easy to understand when your perceptual filters - both conscious and subconscious minds - are based on a two dimensional view of the golf swing.

And some of the other teachers you mentioned are really paying "lip service" to the "arms in front" concept. Many get it wrong and think it means arms lifting up toward the sky in line with the torso mid-line - which would actually make most golfers hit the ball worse! I saw a famous Golf Channel teacher spend a 12 minute segment on TV devoted to "arms in front" concept, came back after the commercial break, and said "on the takeaway you need to swing your arms across and around your chest"....I am not making this up. Total contradiction.

 

You can refer to my post above this one for more on where to start, videos and e-book. Best to use both.

 

The ordering system works fine in Canada, sounds like probably your Internet connection was lost during your ordering process. Best to just try again.

 

We will have a discount for purchasing all the videos in the Great Shot! series, just have to wait till all the videos are completed before we can do that. Should be completed by October of this year.

 

There will also be a subscription membership option where you can access all of my e-books and videos in the whole Balance Point program. Our goal is to eventually have six more e-books, and 12 more videos (in addition to the 14 Great Shot! ballstriking videos) on the site, likely all of that will be completed by 2018.

 

Some folks will always still need the occasional professional feedback when learning the more technical/advanced information, which is why we offer Remote Lessons via webcam to help students achieve clarity.

[dmontague]

Long time lurker here, but rarely post.

 

So I've been reading this thread for a few days and pushing through some videos I ran across online. I was really bad with inside plane backswing and overcompensating by outside in and casting. My arms were fighting to get back across my chest just as Jim teaches. 50% or more of my shots were off target.

 

After feeling like I had a pretty good idea what was going on with this technique, I finally got the chance to give it a shot tonight. I have to say I am blown away. Bear in mind the attached are optishot 2 results, but I think I made some progress after only a few practice swings!

 

Old swing vs new swing with driver

[Jim Waldron]

Long time lurker here, but rarely post.

 

So I've been reading this thread for a few days and pushing through some videos I ran across online. I was really bad with inside plane backswing and overcompensating by outside in and casting. My arms were fighting to get back across my chest just as Jim teaches. 50% or more of my shots were off target.

 

After feeling like I had a pretty good idea what was going on with this technique, I finally got the chance to give it a shot tonight. I have to say I am blown away. Bear in mind the attached are optishot 2 results, but I think I made some progress after only a few practice swings!

 

Old swing vs new swing with driver

 

Pretty cool that you were able to grasp the ASI concept so fast and at such a deep level of understanding - meaning your subconscious mind Swing Map changed for the better - that you were able to actually change your golf swing pattern, and the Optishot proved the changes!

[Jim Waldron]

I had a very interesting discussion with a new student recently. His question was - how do you rate certain fundamentals of the golf swing in terms of overall influence on ball flight. Of course it always boils down to the actual individual student in front of you, but as a general principle when talking about the physical fundamentals, here is my list.

 

1. Balance - both dynamically and at Setup. This includes the Lower Body Stability Platform, and mid-body and upper body Postural Braces. Stability is essential to achieve Balance. And Awareness for your Balance - in or out - in the soles of the feet is another big key.

 

2. Setup elements - and there are a lot of them to get right. Very close second to Balance. No excuse not to set up as well as a tour pro - takes zero athletic talent.

 

3. Grip position, overall pressure, and hand unity. The position has a tremendous influence on clubface angle control - one of the six laws of club motion. Pressure affects how your wrists and forearm roll mechanics work, especially during Release. Hand unity means the club does not slip in your hands - a common flaw, and work together as "one firm unit".

 

4. Pivot Mechanics- the basic structure of the golf swing motion and the source of most of your power. Including staying in your Spine Angle until followthrough (not Finish).

 

 

5. Arm Mechanics - especially the ASI concept and its ramifications.

 

6. Wrist Mechanics - especially Release type and trigger point in the downswing.

 

7. Tempo - neither too slow (most common) nor too fast.

 

I rate how you use your mind and emotional state even more influential than any of those physical factors though!

[GoStars]

Jim,

Will Module 4: Pivot be up soon?

[Jim Waldron]

Jim,

Will Module 4: Pivot be up soon?

 

It should be up within ten days or so. Last minute changes, as seems to be the case. And two downloads since there is so much information, over three hours.

[MixedBag]

Not sure how this thread made it pass me until now, but I'm blown away. After reading this thread and watching the '97 video, I went to the range and hit the best balls of my golfing life. My distance was a little all over the place (but longer for sure) and I was drawing the ball at first (adjusted current strong right hand grip and started hitting straight), so I plan on signing up for remote lessons in the near future. Thanks Jim!

[Jim Waldron]

Not sure how this thread made it pass me until now, but I'm blown away. After reading this thread and watching the '97 video, I went to the range and hit the best balls of my golfing life. My distance was a little all over the place (but longer for sure) and I was drawing the ball at first (adjusted current strong right hand grip and started hitting straight), so I plan on signing up for remote lessons in the near future. Thanks Jim!

 

Thank you for your feedback

 

And good to hear you achieved that breakthrough so quickly! It's one of the really cool things about the ASi, a radical shift in understanding what a good and efficient golf swing is all about, that can take place literally in one second, a true "flash of insight" that lays the groundwork for real change. The 1997 clip is pretty dated though - the new Module Two on the ASI at over two hours of drills, exercises and demonstrations is far superior to the old clip.

 

Remote Lessons are a great and affordable alternative for folks who simply can't make it out to see me in person in either Portland or Hawaii. I did my first live on the practice range remote lesson three days ago and it went flawlessly. The student was on his home range near San Francisco, hitting balls,using his smartphone as his webcam, and I was in my office in Oregon, providing feedback for the hour. Using real ball flight as feedback made it almost as "real" as an actual in person lesson. The student was thrilled and he achieved a ton of improvement to the ball flight towards the end of the hour. It was very exciting to see how well it worked. As Internet connections become faster, stronger and more relilable - wifi included - this kind of lesson will become more and more common.

[JD3]

In order for this to work, do the wrists need to be setting at same time as arms are liftting in the backswing?

[Jim Waldron]

In order for this to work, do the wrists need to be setting at same time as arms are liftting in the backswing?

 

The arms do not "lift" - at least not in the way that likely 90% of golfers will define the word "lift". The lead arm 45 degree angle pushaway motion is mostly parallel to the ground, not "up" very much at all. It is a pushing out not a lifting up, but at the very end of the arm travel there is naturally a slight upward motion. It is the same thing you do when you reach out to shake someone's hand - only 4-8 inches of total travel.

 

Yes - the wrist c0cking upwards and also hinging right wrist backwards at the same time needs to be blended into the arm pushaway motion, which needs to be blended into the Pivot motion. Getting the blend correct results in an on plane clubshaft during the takeaway.

[JD3]

In order for this to work, do the wrists need to be setting at same time as arms are liftting in the backswing?

 

The arms do not "lift" - at least not in the way that likely 90% of golfers will define the word "lift". The lead arm 45 degree angle pushaway motion is mostly parallel to the ground, not "up" very much at all. It is a pushing out not a lifting up, but at the very end of the arm travel there is naturally a slight upward motion. It is the same thing you do when you reach out to shake someone's hand - only 4-8 inches of total travel.

 

Yes - the wrist c0cking upwards and also hinging right wrist backwards at the same time needs to be blended into the arm pushaway motion, which needs to be blended into the Pivot motion. Getting the blend correct results in an on plane clubshaft during the takeaway.

Thanks for the explanation. In addition to wrist set it seems the other component needs to be considered is elbow width...if they separate them arms can get stuck even if you did everything else right. How do you work on keeping elbows close together ?

[Jim Waldron]

In order for this to work, do the wrists need to be setting at same time as arms are liftting in the backswing?

 

The arms do not "lift" - at least not in the way that likely 90% of golfers will define the word "lift". The lead arm 45 degree angle pushaway motion is mostly parallel to the ground, not "up" very much at all. It is a pushing out not a lifting up, but at the very end of the arm travel there is naturally a slight upward motion. It is the same thing you do when you reach out to shake someone's hand - only 4-8 inches of total travel.

 

Yes - the wrist c0cking upwards and also hinging right wrist backwards at the same time needs to be blended into the arm pushaway motion, which needs to be blended into the Pivot motion. Getting the blend correct results in an on plane clubshaft during the takeaway.

Thanks for the explanation. In addition to wrist set it seems the other component needs to be considered is elbow width...if they separate them arms can get stuck even if you did everything else right. How do you work on keeping elbows close together ?

 

If you are not an endomorph body type (think NFL lineman!) then you likely have enough flexibility to keep the sides of your Triangle intact during the backswing, or at least mostly so. You simply gently squeeze your arms toward each other - with equal opposing pressure that is very gentle - and keep that pressure intact until Followthrough position, when the folding of the elbows will cause the Triangle structure to collapse as you go to Finish.

 

Harvey Penick has a whole chapter if I recall correctly in his classic "Little Red Book". And Hogan talked about this many times with fellow pros he worked with, and also has a little bit on it in "Five Lessons".

[trilerian]

I would like to thank Kiwi for starting this thread and Jim for the wealth of knowledge that he has shared with everyone. I've spent the last three weeks reading and digesting this thread. I have done many hours of mirror work, slow motion swings and trying to get a since of true feeling for the swing. I have hit about 3000 golf balls on the range since starting down my road to a new swing. The ASI has definitely been enlightening, I was definitely in the camp of swinging my arms around my body, of course they still want to go there, I think my SM is stubborn.

Hopefully my swing will continue to improve, and thanks again Jim.

[GoStars]

Jim,

Will the pivot video be up this week? X-Fingers....

[Jim Waldron]

Jim,

Will the pivot video be up this week? X-Fingers....

 

I think so, we are working hard to get it ready to post.

[Jim Waldron]

I would like to thank Kiwi for starting this thread and Jim for the wealth of knowledge that he has shared with everyone. I've spent the last three weeks reading and digesting this thread. I have done many hours of mirror work, slow motion swings and trying to get a since of true feeling for the swing. I have hit about 3000 golf balls on the range since starting down my road to a new swing. The ASI has definitely been enlightening, I was definitely in the camp of swinging my arms around my body, of course they still want to go there, I think my SM is stubborn.

Hopefully my swing will continue to improve, and thanks again Jim.

 

Thanks! The really important first step is actually experiencing that perceptual "shift" which means you can clearly see through the Illusion when watching tour pros on tv or on your computer screen. Then the mirror work to play around with the pushaway and Triangle concepts, and how essential the proper Pivot is to a really effective golf swing. The more you do that kind of training, the faster your SM Swing Map will shed the ASI.

[4pillars]

Jim,

Will the pivot video be up this week? X-Fingers....

 

I think so, we are working hard to get it ready to post.

 

Because of brixexit it will now cost me more. A small price for freedom.

[trilerian]

Jim, any advice on overcoming the hit impulse with the fairway woods, and driver? I have confidence in my mid irons and hybrids but due to a lack of distance with my woods I try and crush it to get it out there. This always results in an over the top move starting with my shoulders instead of my lower body. And since my backswing is no longer as inside as it was, this OTT is even worse. I think the problem stems from not being able to hit my 3w or driver that far past my 18 degree hybrid. Even on good shots with my driver, I’m not more than 20 yards past my 18 hybrid and it’s extremely frustrating. In all honesty I’m having a little trouble with my 6i and 5i as well, but weird that I’m not having any issues with the hybrids. My pw-7i, those are money, I’m hitting those clubs better than I ever have. They are about a club length farther and much more consistent shot shape that what they used to be.