Match play final.. Was I hustled?

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381506321' post='7987095']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381500051' post='7986497']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1381497805' post='7986285']
In short...I am an EXPERT in the pratical application of what we have been discussing here.
[/quote]

And yet you think that a casino would be worried about a gambler on a lucky streak...

Riddle me that
[/quote]

Evidently you must not visit Vegas often either. If you think they are not concerned about hot streaks you are mistaken. They have people they employ just for those purposes. They constantly monitor cheats, and they fully understand they can take a beating by getting "unlucky" themselves. If you have never witnessed a table minimum change, or a table be closed, or an attempt to run a player off, then like I said, you must not be fairly familiar with Vegas. Sure they understand the odds, but they also understand they can lose their butts to one lucky change.
[/quote]

Yes they watch out for cheats, but that's not what kg was talking about. They look out for patterns, like suddenly betting more while playing blackjack (indicates that they are counting).

Out of curiosity, if someone were to win 16 hands of some game in a row, but they were giving no outward indication of cheating, would you expect the casino to do something about that?

[wobgon]

This would be a great place to start a golf forum.....

[Hstead]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381506788' post='7987169']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381506321' post='7987095']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381500051' post='7986497']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1381497805' post='7986285']
In short...I am an EXPERT in the pratical application of what we have been discussing here.
[/quote]

And yet you think that a casino would be worried about a gambler on a lucky streak...

Riddle me that
[/quote]

Evidently you must not visit Vegas often either. If you think they are not concerned about hot streaks you are mistaken. They have people they employ just for those purposes. They constantly monitor cheats, and they fully understand they can take a beating by getting "unlucky" themselves. If you have never witnessed a table minimum change, or a table be closed, or an attempt to run a player off, then like I said, you must not be fairly familiar with Vegas. Sure they understand the odds, but they also understand they can lose their butts to one lucky change.
[/quote]

Yes they watch out for cheats, but that's not what kg was talking about. They look out for patterns, like suddenly betting more while playing blackjack (indicates that they are counting).

Out of curiosity, if someone were to win 16 hands of some game in a row, but they were giving no outward indication of cheating, would you expect the casino to do something about that?
[/quote]

Trust me, I understand counting cards, I have been able to do it and was asked to leave the Mirage one evening when I split two face cards and received two more. They didn't like that. You are not supposed to split face cards, but there are too many left in the deck, count was way positive and the dealer was sitting on 13. I was varying my bets and increasing them, but anyone that knows how to count cards also knows they watch your betting patterns. I understand counting cards completely trust me.

Like I said, there is a reason they have table limits and it isn't because they do not understand odds. They fully are aware that if Charles Barkley walks in drunk and places 2 Million on Red, wins and walks back to the bar, then they are not going to be as profitable that day.

I have seen table limits change a bunch of times. I have also witnessed tables "closed". They do it for a reason and it isn't because the chance of landing on red or black is still 50/50 on the sixth try after five reds in a row. They understand that you may walk out after you lost the sixth bet and now they are down 4 bets.

Seriously, if you think Vegas does not worry about "someone getting lucky" and they just willy nilly trust the odds are going to take care of every single instance, then again you are mistaken. The are a business and they endeavor to make a profit. One big unlucky hit can damage the bottom line.

[nbg352]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1381507155' post='7987195']
This would be a great place to start a golf forum.....
[/quote]
Hey, no talking golf in the Vegas forum!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381506602' post='7987145']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1381503769' post='7986819']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381500051' post='7986497']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1381497805' post='7986285']
In short...I am an EXPERT in the pratical application of what we have been discussing here.
[/quote]

And yet you think that a casino would be worried about a gambler on a lucky streak...

Riddle me that
[/quote]

If that gambler is sitting with a million dollars worth of the House's money in front of hime, [u][i][b]they'd better be.[/b][/i][/u]

Taken as a single individual...the odds of any [i]particular [/i]gambler going off on that kind of tear without cheating is very low.

But when you consider that over a period of many years, a large casino will encounter hundreds of thousands to millions of gamblers. Some of whom are quite skilled.

So, eventually, you [i][b]WILL[/b][/i] encounter a player where all the stars align...and they start taking the House to the woodshed.

...and smart money had better have a plan already in place for how to deal with that situation. So that that the damage to the House's bottom line is minimized.
[/quote]

One question for you - if someone is playing roulette and betting red or black and wins 5 times in a row, is he more or less likely to win the next spin than he was previously. He's on a "hot streak". Do you think the casino should be concerned about such a thing?
[/quote]

No.

If a player is playing roulette, and is only betting on red or black....then you are only dealing with events that involve probabilities of .5.

So the odds that a player will bet correctly on 5 consecutive spins of the wheel is only 2^5 or 1 in 32. The odds that he will bet correctly on a sixth spin is 2^6 or 1 in 64.

That's barely into the threshold of an "uncommon" event. The house needn't be concerned...because (as someone alluded to earlier) the House usually deals with type of situation by limiting their exposure by placing betting limits on the table, and keeping payouts very modest for a high probability event like guessing which color comes up on the wheel. (1:1)

Now....it becomes a very different story if the players is betting straight-up...and has hit the correct number 5 times in a row. You are now dealing with an event that only has a probability of occurring 35^5 or [b][i]one in 52 million[/i][/b] and change. Thrown in a sixth spin, and now your talking 35^6 or [i]just under [b]one in 2 billion. [/b][/i]

With the house taking a hit for a 35:1 pay out on each winning spin.

Not only will I guarentee you that you will IMMEDIATELY draw the attention of casino security, they [i][b]will [/b][/i]be giving you the bum's rush from the table. If not holding you to be arrested while they try to figure out how it is that you've managed to cheat the wheel.

[Halebopp]

This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...

[dirthead]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

You beat me to it. I'm not going to get involved in the debate, but in roulette, there are 18 red, 18 black, and 2 green. For color, the odds on one spin are 47.37% red, 47.37% black, 5.26% green. For someone just betting red or black, the house still has a 5.26% advantage, so it's not 50/50.

[eagle1997]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

i can't wait for kelly's response. because, as we all know, he is [i][b]NEVER[/b][/i] wrong.


edited: to add in [i][b]BOLD ITALIC ALL CAPS.[/b][/i]

[Ty_Webb]

[quote]
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381506788' post='7987169']
One question for you - if someone is playing roulette and betting red or black and wins 5 times in a row, is he more or less likely to win the next spin than he was previously. He's on a "hot streak". Do you think the casino should be concerned about such a thing?
[/quote]

No.

If a player is playing roulette, and is only betting on red or black....then you are only dealing with events that involve probabilities of .5.

So the odds that a player will bet correctly on 5 consecutive spins of the wheel is only 2^5 or 1 in 32. The odds that he will bet correctly on a sixth spin is 2^6 or 1 in 64.

That's barely into the threshold of an "uncommon" event. The house needn't be concerned...because (as someone alluded to earlier) the House usually deals with type of situation by limiting their exposure by placing betting limits on the table, and keeping payouts very modest for a high probability event like guessing which color comes up on the wheel. (1:1)

Now....it becomes a very different story if the players is betting straight-up...and has hit the correct number 5 times in a row. You are now dealing with an event that only has a probability of occurring 35^5 or [b][i]one in 52 million[/i][/b] and change. Thrown in a sixth spin, and now your talking 35^6 or [i]just under [b]one in 2 billion. [/b][/i]

With the house taking a hit for a 35:1 pay out on each winning spin.

Not only will I guarentee you that you will IMMEDIATELY draw the attention of casino security, they [i][b]will [/b][/i]be giving you the bum's rush from the table. If not holding you to be arrested while they try to figure out how it is that you've managed to cheat the wheel.
[/quote]

It's either 37 or 38 to the power of that you should be using, depending on whether there are 1 or 2 zeroes on the wheel.

Anyway, you're right about what you say. They pull the plug because they suspect cheating. They suspect cheating because the odds of that happening are starting to look crazy. They have people playing 24/7, so they'll see some unusual occurrences from time to time, but let's suppose for a moment that they installed a brand new wheel. Some guy comes in and the first three spins of the brand new wheel, that guy bets on 27 and it comes in three times in a row. (let's suppose for a moment that they haven't tested the wheel to make sure there's no bias). Do you think that would raise eyebrows? Do you think they'd let that guy keep playing?

Out of curiosity, how many times has a roulette wheel come in 6 times in a row on the same number? Cheating or not?

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

I thought we were playing French Roulette in Monte Carlo.....

But even having one more slot on the wheel doesn't change the basics of the situation. Black vs Red is high probability...and short runs of good fortune are going to be relatively common. So the casino structures the payout and the betting limits to protect themselves.

But a run on betting the correct numbers straight up is so freakishly rare, that even the HINT of one will quickly get the attention of security.

[wobgon]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381507787' post='7987253']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1381507155' post='7987195']
This would be a great place to start a golf forum.....
[/quote]
Hey, no talking golf in the Vegas forum!
[/quote]
Thanks for the quick slap to the face....I don't know what came over me.....

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381509467' post='7987397']
[quote]
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381506788' post='7987169']
One question for you - if someone is playing roulette and betting red or black and wins 5 times in a row, is he more or less likely to win the next spin than he was previously. He's on a "hot streak". Do you think the casino should be concerned about such a thing?
[/quote]

No.

If a player is playing roulette, and is only betting on red or black....then you are only dealing with events that involve probabilities of .5.

So the odds that a player will bet correctly on 5 consecutive spins of the wheel is only 2^5 or 1 in 32. The odds that he will bet correctly on a sixth spin is 2^6 or 1 in 64.

That's barely into the threshold of an "uncommon" event. The house needn't be concerned...because (as someone alluded to earlier) the House usually deals with type of situation by limiting their exposure by placing betting limits on the table, and keeping payouts very modest for a high probability event like guessing which color comes up on the wheel. (1:1)

Now....it becomes a very different story if the players is betting straight-up...and has hit the correct number 5 times in a row. You are now dealing with an event that only has a probability of occurring 35^5 or [b][i]one in 52 million[/i][/b] and change. Thrown in a sixth spin, and now your talking 35^6 or [i]just under [b]one in 2 billion. [/b][/i]

With the house taking a hit for a 35:1 pay out on each winning spin.

Not only will I guarentee you that you will IMMEDIATELY draw the attention of casino security, they [i][b]will [/b][/i]be giving you the bum's rush from the table. If not holding you to be arrested while they try to figure out how it is that you've managed to cheat the wheel.
[/quote]

It's either 37 or 38 to the power of that you should be using, depending on whether there are 1 or 2 zeroes on the wheel.

Anyway, you're right about what you say. They pull the plug because they suspect cheating. They suspect cheating because the odds of that happening are starting to look crazy. They have people playing 24/7, so they'll see some unusual occurrences from time to time, but let's suppose for a moment that they installed a brand new wheel. Some guy comes in and the first three spins of the brand new wheel, that guy bets on 27 and it comes in three times in a row. (let's suppose for a moment that they haven't tested the wheel to make sure there's no bias). Do you think that would raise eyebrows? Do you think they'd let that guy keep playing?

Out of curiosity, how many times has a roulette wheel come in 6 times in a row on the same number? Cheating or not?
[/quote]

1. Yes.

2. No...not at that wheel. I'm assuming that a smart casino would let the player keep his winning...but shut down that table right away. Suspecting that there might be a bias to the wheel. Especially given the unique features of your hypothetical.

3. Don't know the specific answer to that...but given the odds...I would imagine it is VERY low. If it has ever happened at all.

[dpb5031]

Rare things can and do happen in golf and in life. It's when they occur multiple times...with the same individual(s), and at the most opportunistic times, that the red flag should go up. Until then, the gentlemanly thing to do is to shake hands and let it go.

The US handicapping system for golf is well intentioned, but completely flawed. It is based on a premise of integrity and that each individual is trying his very best to shoot the lowest score possible every time he tees it up. Unfortunately, I doubt this is the case a [i]high[/i] percentage of the time. Also, the system can easily and undetectably be gamed (cheated) to provide a player with "the edge." After all, who doesn't want to go into a money match or prestigious club event knowing he's got "the edge?" Often times a one or two stroke advantage is all it takes.

The common game at many clubs is better ball of partners (four ball) match play. Individual gross/net score is practically irrelevant, but in the end a score must be posted nonetheless. Is each guy really trying his best to shoot the lowest score possible every time? Some will, some won't... and couldn't care less, but the scores go in. Equitable stroke control provides another opportunity to work the system...especially if the player is a double figure HC and can take 7s on par threes. A clever cheat could stay in the 10-12 HC range forever while really playing like a 6-8 HC and beating peoples brains in.

We outed a guy at our club who conveniently would go on a golf vacation with his wife just prior to our net match play championship. He'd post a dozen of these just so slightly higher than usual scores (for him), on courses with suspiciously low ratings. Pretty clever actually, because the scores by themselves didn't raise the red flag, you actually had to look at the differentials (scores versus the course ratings).

I also played in a member-guest this summer and won the championship (low HC) flight with my partner. We got knocked out on the second hole of the shootout giving up strokes on a par three. A pair of brothers won. A 19 and 26 HC respectively, in their late thirties, and had both had played high school golf. In fact, we later learned that the 26 had once been a 2 HC. I'm a 2 now, and if I didn't touch a club at all for 15 years, I still would not be a 26 HC!

I asked this question rhetorically in another thread. If you [i]WIN[/i] something [i]NET[/i], did you really actually [i]WIN[/i] anything at all?

[eagle1997]

incredible how even when he is wrong, kelly is NOT wrong. [i][b]simply amazing.[/b][/i]

i'd say it was the phrase you simply [i][b]love[/b][/i] to throw around, that is [i][b]"intellectual laziness,"[/b][/i] but the mental gymnastics you have to perform to convince yourself of being right... wow. that's anything but lazy.

[nbg352]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1381513244' post='7987681']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381507787' post='7987253']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1381507155' post='7987195']
This would be a great place to start a golf forum.....
[/quote]
Hey, no talking golf in the Vegas forum!
[/quote]
Thanks for the quick slap to the face....I don't know what came over me.....
[/quote]
Any time, buddy, any time...

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='garywdixon' timestamp='1381500194' post='7986509']
[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381488135' post='7985801']
[quote name='garywdixon' timestamp='1381457189' post='7984739']
How about a different look at the statistics for a giggle:

[color=#ff0000][size=5]These figures do not take into account course rating, hole rating, match play concessions, how handicaps are calculated, etc.[/size][/color]


[/quote]

Can you add any odds to this discussion? Or are you just going to provide the Argument from Authority fallacy?
[/quote]

No reason to get flippant. Meaningful odds cannot be calculated based on the conditions highlighted above.

But if you want to give it a try from a theoretical, but flawed, point of view, and to make it easy, figure a 9 has a .5 chance of parring each hole. That makes it like flipping a coin. Then you figure the odds of flipping a coin and getting heads 12/13 times. That comes out to .004 or .4% of the attempts.

I'd have to say though that if golf were even remotely similar to flipping a coin then there would be far fewer adherents.

I "know" my score could be +1 after 13. If fact, I "know" I can shoot an even par round when standing on the first tee with a 17 HDC. I can see it in my mind. Odds be damned.
[/quote]

Ok, so you can't quantify your position. Yet, you're using that position as a legitimate argument against actual odds?

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

Boy. You just opened up a can of works. Don't you know Kelly is a physician and deals with these kinds of things in the [i]REAL world[/i]?

There is no room for facts.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1381513382' post='7987691']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381509467' post='7987397']
[quote]
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381506788' post='7987169']
One question for you - if someone is playing roulette and betting red or black and wins 5 times in a row, is he more or less likely to win the next spin than he was previously. He's on a "hot streak". Do you think the casino should be concerned about such a thing?
[/quote]

No.

If a player is playing roulette, and is only betting on red or black....then you are only dealing with events that involve probabilities of .5.

So the odds that a player will bet correctly on 5 consecutive spins of the wheel is only 2^5 or 1 in 32. The odds that he will bet correctly on a sixth spin is 2^6 or 1 in 64.

That's barely into the threshold of an "uncommon" event. The house needn't be concerned...because (as someone alluded to earlier) the House usually deals with type of situation by limiting their exposure by placing betting limits on the table, and keeping payouts very modest for a high probability event like guessing which color comes up on the wheel. (1:1)

Now....it becomes a very different story if the players is betting straight-up...and has hit the correct number 5 times in a row. You are now dealing with an event that only has a probability of occurring 35^5 or [b][i]one in 52 million[/i][/b] and change. Thrown in a sixth spin, and now your talking 35^6 or [i]just under [b]one in 2 billion. [/b][/i]

With the house taking a hit for a 35:1 pay out on each winning spin.

Not only will I guarentee you that you will IMMEDIATELY draw the attention of casino security, they [i][b]will [/b][/i]be giving you the bum's rush from the table. If not holding you to be arrested while they try to figure out how it is that you've managed to cheat the wheel.
[/quote]

It's either 37 or 38 to the power of that you should be using, depending on whether there are 1 or 2 zeroes on the wheel.

Anyway, you're right about what you say. They pull the plug because they suspect cheating. They suspect cheating because the odds of that happening are starting to look crazy. They have people playing 24/7, so they'll see some unusual occurrences from time to time, but let's suppose for a moment that they installed a brand new wheel. Some guy comes in and the first three spins of the brand new wheel, that guy bets on 27 and it comes in three times in a row. (let's suppose for a moment that they haven't tested the wheel to make sure there's no bias). Do you think that would raise eyebrows? Do you think they'd let that guy keep playing?

Out of curiosity, how many times has a roulette wheel come in 6 times in a row on the same number? Cheating or not?
[/quote]

1. Yes.

2. No...not at that wheel. I'm assuming that a smart casino would let the player keep his winning...but shut down that table right away. Suspecting that there might be a bias to the wheel. Especially given the unique features of your hypothetical.

3. Don't know the specific answer to that...but given the odds...I would imagine it is VERY low. If it has ever happened at all.
[/quote]

2. But the guy picked the right number right away. He didn't watch and see it come in a couple of times and then bet on that. He just bet straight up on that number and it came up. Sort of like perhaps he knew something.

3. It probably has happened at some point, but the odds of someone actually betting on it and winning on each spin at the same time? That I highly doubt. I base that on a rough stab in the dark of 20 years of 365 days a year with 50 casinos with 50 roulette wheels per casino 24 hours a day with a 100 spins of the wheel per hour. That little lot equates to approximately 44 billion spins, so even if I'm off by a factor of 10 somewhere it's still probably happened a couple of times. Given that, do you think the casino would be justified in banning the guy/in past times beating the you know what out of him?

Edit: actually it would have happened quite often. The wheel would only have to repeat 5 times the number from the first spin, so each opportunity there are around 37 different ways to do it. 7 in a row would have happened a couple of times most likely. And maybe it's happened with someone betting on it.

[eagle1997]

[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381515502' post='7987895']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

Boy. You just opened up a can of works. Don't you know Kelly is a physician and deals with these kinds of things in the [i]REAL world[/i]?

There is no room for facts.
[/quote]

tsk tsk... you forgot to reply with bold and italics in your post. [i][b]HOW[/b][/i] will anyone ever [i][b]KNOW[/b][/i] what is your point of [i][b]EMPHASIS[/b][/i]???

good to see that kelly has reverted to posting in list form however. the unintentional comedy of his replies cannot be underestimated.

[nbg352]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516146' post='7987955']
[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381515502' post='7987895']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

Boy. You just opened up a can of works. Don't you know Kelly is a physician and deals with these kinds of things in the [i]REAL world[/i]?

There is no room for facts.
[/quote]

tsk tsk... you forgot to reply with bold and italics in your post. [i][b]HOW[/b][/i] will anyone ever [i][b]KNOW[/b][/i] what is your point of [i][b]EMPHASIS[/b][/i]???

good to see that kelly has reverted to posting in list form however. the unintentional comedy of his replies cannot be underestimated.
[/quote]
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.

[eagle1997]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381516739' post='7988027']
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.
[/quote]

nbg, you are right. but hypocrisy deserves to be mocked. mercilessly.

[nbg352]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516896' post='7988041']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381516739' post='7988027']
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.
[/quote]

nbg, you are right. but hypocrisy deserves to be mocked. mercilessly.
[/quote]
If your intended victim was a hypocrite, I might tend to agree. But he's not, so I don't. There are others on here who may be more deserving of your method of showing disagreement. But resorting to mockery at all, is at best, unattractive.
And unnecessary.

[vtnerf]

After 17 pages of, well, [i]that[/i], this is what comes out?????

[kellygreen]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381517960' post='7988117']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516896' post='7988041']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381516739' post='7988027']
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.
[/quote]

nbg, you are right. but hypocrisy deserves to be mocked. mercilessly.
[/quote]
If your intended victim was a hypocrite, I might tend to agree. But he's not, so I don't. There are others on here who may be more deserving of your method of showing disagreement. But resorting to mockery at all, is at best, unattractive.
And unnecessary.
[/quote]

Sometimes mockery's [i]all they got[/i]...so they go with it.

Like I said earlier. Levelling is the sincerest form of flattery.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1381515700' post='7987909']
2. But the guy picked the right number right away. He didn't watch and see it come in a couple of times and then bet on that. He just bet straight up on that number and it came up. Sort of like perhaps he knew something.

3. It probably has happened at some point, but the odds of someone actually betting on it and winning on each spin at the same time? That I highly doubt. I base that on a rough stab in the dark of 20 years of 365 days a year with 50 casinos with 50 roulette wheels per casino 24 hours a day with a 100 spins of the wheel per hour. That little lot equates to approximately 44 billion spins, so even if I'm off by a factor of 10 somewhere it's still probably happened a couple of times. Given that, do you think the casino would be justified in banning the guy/in past times beating the you know what out of him?

Edit: actually it would have happened quite often. The wheel would only have to repeat 5 times the number from the first spin, so each opportunity there are around 37 different ways to do it. 7 in a row would have happened a couple of times most likely. And maybe it's happened with someone betting on it.
[/quote]

1. It may be relevant...it may be arbitrary (lucky). You won't know until you find out what's going on with the wheel...and why it was opened up for gaming without being tested for a bias.

2. Thirty-seven different ways to do it....but out of a possible (nearly) 70 million different combinations. By the time you're talking 7 in a row, you're talking out of a possible 94 billion combinations. Which now has us in the realm of the odds of getting hit by falling space junk....

Which did happen....[i]once[/i].

[eagle1997]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381517960' post='7988117']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516896' post='7988041']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381516739' post='7988027']
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.
[/quote]

nbg, you are right. but hypocrisy deserves to be mocked. mercilessly.
[/quote]
If your intended victim was a hypocrite, I might tend to agree. But[b] he's not[/b], so I don't. There are others on here who may be more deserving of your method of showing disagreement. But resorting to mockery at all, is at best, unattractive.
And unnecessary.
[/quote]

we will just have to disagree on that - and that's fine. hope you have a good weekend!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516146' post='7987955']
tsk tsk... you forgot to reply with bold and italics in your post. [i][b]HOW[/b][/i] will anyone ever [i][b]KNOW[/b][/i] what is your point of [i][b]EMPHASIS[/b][/i]???

good to see that kelly has reverted to posting in list form however. the unintentional comedy of his replies cannot be underestimated.
[/quote]

Yawn.

I post in list for so that I can clearly address posters who pose multiple questions, or complex multi-part questions.

Anything else to contribute besides rock-throwing from the sidelines?

[kellygreen]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381518798' post='7988167']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381517960' post='7988117']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1381516896' post='7988041']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1381516739' post='7988027']
Mockery seems to be you boys' long suit.....
It's not very attractive.
[/quote]

nbg, you are right. but hypocrisy deserves to be mocked. mercilessly.
[/quote]
If your intended victim was a hypocrite, I might tend to agree. But[b] he's not[/b], so I don't. There are others on here who may be more deserving of your method of showing disagreement. But resorting to mockery at all, is at best, unattractive.
And unnecessary.
[/quote]

we will just have to disagree on that - and that's fine. hope you have a good weekend!
[/quote]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Have a nice day.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381515502' post='7987895']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1381508992' post='7987339']
This might be a moot point but you're forgetting the 0 and the 00 in American roulette...
[/quote]

Boy. You just opened up a can of works. Don't you know Kelly is a physician and deals with these kinds of things in the [i]REAL world[/i]?

There is no room for facts.
[/quote]
Plenty of room for facts.

...and a 36th slot on the wheel does change the odds numbers, but not their application or their meaning in the grand scheme of the hypothetical being discussed. Which, of course, all parties agree on.

[i]You, OTOH, [/i]just bumped your head into the unpleasant fact...that you've been caught out trying intellectually intimidate someone who has largely been humoring you (and, futilely, trying to teach you something) for the last few days. In area of knowledge where he's paid to work and to teach.

You chose to play the "[i]I'm right and your wrong, and you don't know what you're talking about"[/i] gambit to the bitter end.

All I did was pull back the internet veil of anonymity long enough to show you who you were talking to.....someone who---in no uncertain terms---knows exactly what he's talking about. Someone who applies it in an arena where it plays out in life-and-death terms.

Oops.

[vtnerf]