The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[somaplr]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1399344365' post='9239751']
How can Roy hibbert suck this much?

18 min.
0 points
0 rebounds
5 fouls
[/quote]

I can't take my eyes off him when he's on the court

[tocino]

I'm still trying to understand how in-effective he is. it's mind boggling... I mean, someone mentioned the "space jam" theory. It has to be that or someone's holding his dog hostage, he owes a bookie money, etc... *shaking my head*

[deadsolid...shank]

I know initiating contact isn't a foul, I'm saying I think it should be. When the defender has an established guarding position and the offensive player uses brute force to move him back towards the basket, I think it should be. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification on their auction. Is it just me though, or does anyone else think the calls are leaning strongly in favor of the Clippers?

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1399385483' post='9241711']I know initiating contact isn't a foul, I'm saying I think it should be. When the defender has an established guarding position and the offensive player uses brute force to move him back towards the basket, I think it should be. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification on their auction. Is it just me though, or does anyone else think the calls are leaning strongly in favor of the Clippers?[/quote]

With the way CP3 was playing, it didn't even matter. OKC didn't have a chance last night.

[mnplayer]

KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?

[eagle1997]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399396646' post='9243083']
KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?
[/quote]

he plays for minnesssssssssota, yeah? (read that in a fargo voice, please)

http://youtu.be/TF3z-j8o39I

[tocino]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1399398541' post='9243331']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399396646' post='9243083']
KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?
[/quote]

he plays for minnesssssssssota, yeah? (read that in a fargo voice, please)

[media=]http://youtu.be/TF3z-j8o39I[/media]
[/quote]

his team has yet to make the playoffs. The only way you're going to overcome that is if you have a monster year, stat-wise (think 30 ppg, 12 rpg, 6 apg from the PF/C position)

[somaplr]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1399385483' post='9241711'] I know initiating contact isn't a foul, I'm saying I think it should be. When the defender has an established guarding position and the offensive player uses brute force to move him back towards the basket, I think it should be. Just my opinion. Thanks for the clarification on their auction. Is it just me though, or does anyone else think the calls are leaning strongly in favor of the Clippers? [/quote]

The only time a defender has "established position" is when they are set and not moving. If you called an offensive foul on initiating contact, there wouldn't be NBA offense. You couldn't deduce it in real speed. Reffing in an NBA game is about the hardest thing ever...probably the most difficult sport to umpire because of the speed and the size and how much contact is given.

I played college basketball for 4 years and refs never won or a lost a single game for us. Sure, refs miss calls all the time, just like players miss shots. In in real time and blinding speeds. Save for the occassional Joey Crawford joke, I think they do a pretty good job. I'm not attacking you, but ref attacking is just a cop out and is due to mostly fan bias. I know a ton about the game, have coached and played at a pretty high level, but if I was thrown out on an NBA court trying to refferee a game there would be a riot. It's insanely hard - fans just think they are good at it because they are sitting on their butts in slow-mo replay.

Mark Jackson just got canned, btw. Can't say I'm surprised. No one messes with the White Mamba and gets away with it.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1399402211' post='9243815']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1399398541' post='9243331']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399396646' post='9243083']
KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?
[/quote]

he plays for minnesssssssssota, yeah? (read that in a fargo voice, please)

[media=]http://youtu.be/TF3z-j8o39I[/media]
[/quote]

his team has yet to make the playoffs. The only way you're going to overcome that is if you have a monster year, stat-wise (think 30 ppg, 12 rpg, 6 apg from the PF/C position)
[/quote]

Those numbers are worthy of winning the MVP. Love had 26 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 4.4 apg and a PER of 26.97 which falls only behind guess who, Lebron and KD. I'm not saying he should be winning the MVP or even be in the top 5 but to say there are 10 players who had a better season than he did is ridiculous, and to say that there are 10 players more valuable to their team than Love is even more ridiculous. Off course the award isn't really about the most valuable player but still.

[scratchswinger]

Stupid move to fire Jackson.... Nobody and I mean nobody demotes Brian Scalabrine. Lesson learned...

[tocino]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399405226' post='9244213']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1399402211' post='9243815']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1399398541' post='9243331']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399396646' post='9243083']
KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?
[/quote]

he plays for minnesssssssssota, yeah? (read that in a fargo voice, please)

[media=]http://youtu.be/TF3z-j8o39I[/media]
[/quote]

his team has yet to make the playoffs. The only way you're going to overcome that is if you have a monster year, stat-wise (think 30 ppg, 12 rpg, 6 apg from the PF/C position)
[/quote]

Those numbers are worthy of winning the MVP. Love had 26 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 4.4 apg and a PER of 26.97 which falls only behind guess who, Lebron and KD. I'm not saying he should be winning the MVP or even be in the top 5 but to say there are 10 players who had a better season than he did is ridiculous, and to say that there are 10 players more valuable to their team than Love is even more ridiculous. Off course the award isn't really about the most valuable player but still.
[/quote]

that's actually the whole point... the MVP should be just about individual success but its not. Team success plays a major role. If the wolves were the in the 8th spot or even the 9th, then I could see love getting some votes. It's one thing to be valuable to your team, but it's another thing to be valuable player on a playoff-bound team.

I was calling for mark jackson's head a month into the season. due to:[list]
[*]full bench mob substitutions
[*]no on the fly adjustments
[*]trusting his players even to the detriment of team success
[/list]
the fact that he was losing control over his own coaching staff was just icing on the cake. The only thing that could've saved him is if the warriors at least advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs. My only hope is that they don't pick up another new guy with no coaching experience let alone NBA coaching experienced (I'm looking at you steve kerr! back away now and just take that knicks job that phill wants you to get!)




oh, and they pissed off the white mamba

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1399404726' post='9244147']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1399385483' post='9241711'] I know initiating contact isn't a foul, I'm saying I think it should be. When the defender has an established guarding position and the offensive player uses brute force to move him back towards the basket, I think it should be. Just my opinion. Thanks for the clarification on their auction. Is it just me though, or does anyone else think the calls are leaning strongly in favor of the Clippers? [/quote]

The only time a defender has "established position" is when they are set and not moving. If you called an offensive foul on initiating contact, there wouldn't be NBA offense. You couldn't deduce it in real speed. Reffing in an NBA game is about the hardest thing ever...probably the most difficult sport to umpire because of the speed and the size and how much contact is given.

I played college basketball for 4 years and refs never won or a lost a single game for us. Sure, refs miss calls all the time, just like players miss shots. In in real time and blinding speeds. Save for the occassional Joey Crawford joke, I think they do a pretty good job. I'm not attacking you, but ref attacking is just a cop out and is due to mostly fan bias. I know a ton about the game, have coached and played at a pretty high level, but if I was thrown out on an NBA court trying to refferee a game there would be a riot. It's insanely hard - fans just think they are good at it because they are sitting on their butts in slow-mo replay.

Mark Jackson just got canned, btw. Can't say I'm surprised. No one messes with the White Mamba and gets away with it.
[/quote]

Oh I would never say officials win or lose games, I've been on both sides of the whistle enough to know how hard it is.

But last night when OKC had switched on D and one of their guard (Westbrook maybe) ended up on Griffin, he simply led into him with his shoulder and knocked him over. He was set and not moving. That to me is an offensive foul. Just because a defender is smaller shouldn't give the offensive player the right to simply physically move him from his position.

I feel like Iim pretty well versed about the game also and one thing I've noticed, mainly at the college level, is that many of the officials may be getting a little too old to keep up with the pace of the game. I see a whole lot of out of position calls and anticipation calls.

[RJRJRJ]

Anybody see Mark Jackson heading to Indiana if (when) they get knocked out?

[tocino]

maybe... probably not if the pacers make it to the eastern conference finals

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1399389736' post='9242271']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1399385483' post='9241711']I know initiating contact isn't a foul, I'm saying I think it should be. When the defender has an established guarding position and the offensive player uses brute force to move him back towards the basket, I think it should be. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification on their auction. Is it just me though, or does anyone else think the calls are leaning strongly in favor of the Clippers?[/quote]

With the way CP3 was playing, it didn't even matter. OKC didn't have a chance last night.
[/quote]

That's what CP3 needs to do. Historically the Thunder have put Sefalosha on him for long stretches. But Sefalosha is currently in Scotty Brooks ever-expanding doghouse, so much so that i think Jeremy Lamb and him have a bunkbed in there with a nightlight.

Now the Thunder play Butler a lot of minutes, and go with the Westbrook/Jackson backcourt a lot. The tradeoff with more offense is that none of those guys defend well. Westbrook can at times, but has not been good since coming back from injury (Zach Lowe has chronicled this well). Ibaka generally does a great job on Griffin. The Clips need Chris Paul to assert himself against a weak OKC defensive backcourt. That's what he did yesterday....

But i think OKC will live with that for now. If CP3 scores 30+ a game, good night OKC. They are betting that won't happen. And i think they want to keep their offense geared up, so it makes it tough for the Clips to play Jamal Crawford, which limits the Clips offensively (Crawford is so useless on defense that unless you can hide him on a nonfactor like Sefalosha, he hurts you)....well that did not work yesterday (though Crawford only played 18 mins as i would expect)

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1399396646' post='9243083']
KD wins MVP, well deserved. But can somebody please tell me how Kevin Love finishes outside the top 10 in MVP voting?
[/quote]

I was very surprised at the voting. You knew KD would win, but it was way more of a landslide then it should have been. He was close to unanimous. Almost like the voters just decided "OK we're giving it to KD, got that everyone!"

Am i wrong or did Lebron James just finish near the top of the league in shooting percentage and scoring, have roughly the same PER as Durant, be the only other player in the league at above 25 estimated wins added, throw up 27-7-6.5 while also having his best teammate miss 20+ games

I'm all for Durant getting it, but the voting was insulting to Lebron. He got 3 first place votes....WHAT???

I don't know about Kevin Love, look at the guys ahead of him. Curry, Aldridge, Chris Paul , Al Jefferson, James Haren (no D), etc...

Love finished ahead of Goran Dragic....there was a lot of good candidates to finish in the 3-10 range

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1399409907' post='9244771']
Anybody see Mark Jackson heading to Indiana if (when) they get knocked out?
[/quote]

I don't think that's a good pick for them. I don't think Jackson is a good offensive coach. They have a defensive minded coach right now in Vogel (so much so that guys like Gerald Green were benched in Indiana and then had a career year in Phoenix). If you don't get his defensive system you don't play.

Jackson in Golden State has led an underwhelming offense. When Steph Curry went to the bench the offense couldn't score on me, you and Somaplr. And they have David Lee, Klay Thompson etc...

I don't think he's the right fit for Indiana. I think they need someone with more of an offensive track record.

They also need a PG who can get in the lane....

i would keep Vogel though....this isn't all his fault. I like Vogel, at least he knows what he is

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1399382251' post='9241351']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1399344365' post='9239751']
How can Roy hibbert suck this much?

18 min.
0 points
0 rebounds
5 fouls
[/quote]

I can't take my eyes off him when he's on the court
[/quote]

You're a Pacers fan, if they lose this series what are you thinking?

Obviously i'm still sold on George being a max guy, his offense fell off, but he's still improved every year and is a defensive menace. But Hibbert getting near max, Lance going to command a contract. That takes Indiana to the luxury tax limit and this same team fell off a cliff this year and doesn't appear to be a real contender, mostly due to borderline offensive incompetence

Do you let Lance walk? Do you try and trade Hibbert while people still remember when he was valuable? Or do you stick with the same team and hope that Lance and George improve enough to have an offense?

What do you think? Interested to know because you know the team so well

[TheGameChanger]

Jackson - Never Sold on Him. Think he gets the Knicks Job
Vogel - Not his fault something is Going on with a few of his players. However He'll get fired

[MtlJeff]

oh [i]right[/i], Miami is good

[scratchswinger]

Wow I just watched KDs entire speech, much respect. That was a leader and a true man on that podium.

[TheGameChanger]

Well Deserved MVP for KD. Hope things turn out better for Him then the last Guy not named Lebron to win the MVP.

[somaplr]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1399421559' post='9245883']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1399382251' post='9241351']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1399344365' post='9239751']
How can Roy hibbert suck this much?

18 min.
0 points
0 rebounds
5 fouls
[/quote]

I can't take my eyes off him when he's on the court
[/quote]

You're a Pacers fan, if they lose this series what are you thinking?

Obviously i'm still sold on George being a max guy, his offense fell off, but he's still improved every year and is a defensive menace. But Hibbert getting near max, Lance going to command a contract. That takes Indiana to the luxury tax limit and this same team fell off a cliff this year and doesn't appear to be a real contender, mostly due to borderline offensive incompetence

Do you let Lance walk? Do you try and trade Hibbert while people still remember when he was valuable? Or do you stick with the same team and hope that Lance and George improve enough to have an offense?

What do you think? Interested to know because you know the team so well
[/quote]

???????? LOL, man I have no idea. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the team, but "something" happened, or a few things happened.

If it was the ET/Grange thing, and that rift caus a spiral, they were never ever ready to be championship caliber team if a reserve guard coming of the bench leaves and throws off their entire scheme.

I think a few playes have developed the "disease of me" a little. A few guys gunning for big contracts, a few guys unhappy with minutes and touches, that can seed in a team and sprout some real problems.

Somehow, someway...Vogel has lost the players. It's a shame too, I really like Vogel and think he's a great asset to any team.

Lastly, and most painfully, Paul George has shown a serious lack of leadership in this ordeal. The only person that has been outspoken about the matter is David West. But, we don't know what's happened behind the scenes. No one in the locker room has stood up to address the problems, they just shrug. George has never, to my knowledge, stepped up and grabbed the bull by the horns.

And lastly, Hibbert's body was invaded by zombies.

KD's speach was one of the "realist" speaches I've ever seen. Completely unguarded, raw emothion, and the epitome of what a human being should be. Unreal.

[gambit]

I was initially thinking Mark Jackson goes to NY, but rethinking that a little. Reason being is I never thought Jackson was enough of a disciplinarian. Curry making stupid turnovers with that lazy over the top left handed pass over and over again, or a wrap around pass in the lane and Jackson never sits him or gets on him about it. Klay shooting 3s and fadeaways to get out of a slump and he never gets reminded to post up or go to the hole. During the playoffs a lot of us there couldn't understand why Jackson spent nearly the entire timeout talking to refs during crunch time instead of his team. Like, dude, the refs aren't going to change their call. Say your piece and go back to the team. I liked his positivity, but much of it was misplaced at times. I also never liked how he couldn't get his team ready to play less than average teams. NY needs someone more disciplined. I would like to see Thibodeau come to the Warriors if he gets out of Chicago, but I don't see that happening. If not I think Scott Brooks would be a good fit. He knows how to work with stars.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1399488294' post='9251425']
I was initially thinking Mark Jackson goes to NY, but rethinking that a little. Reason being is I never thought Jackson was enough of a disciplinarian. Curry making stupid turnovers with that lazy over the top left handed pass over and over again, or a wrap around pass in the lane and Jackson never sits him or gets on him about it. Klay shooting 3s and fadeaways to get out of a slump and he never gets reminded to post up or go to the hole. During the playoffs a lot of us there couldn't understand why Jackson spent nearly the entire timeout talking to refs during crunch time instead of his team. Like, dude, the refs aren't going to change their call. Say your piece and go back to the team. I liked his positivity, but much of it was misplaced at times. I also never liked how he couldn't get his team ready to play less than average teams. NY needs someone more disciplined. I would like to see Thibodeau come to the Warriors if he gets out of Chicago, but I don't see that happening. If not I think Scott Brooks would be a good fit. He knows how to work with stars.
[/quote]

There are better chances of me winning Super Bowl MVP next year than there are of Thibs going to GS.

[mnplayer]

Anybody else see that Roy Hibbert was basically unsettled by Bynum's presence?? If this is true I don't even know what to say.

[gambit]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1399503205' post='9252949']
[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1399488294' post='9251425']
I was initially thinking Mark Jackson goes to NY, but rethinking that a little. Reason being is I never thought Jackson was enough of a disciplinarian. Curry making stupid turnovers with that lazy over the top left handed pass over and over again, or a wrap around pass in the lane and Jackson never sits him or gets on him about it. Klay shooting 3s and fadeaways to get out of a slump and he never gets reminded to post up or go to the hole. During the playoffs a lot of us there couldn't understand why Jackson spent nearly the entire timeout talking to refs during crunch time instead of his team. Like, dude, the refs aren't going to change their call. Say your piece and go back to the team. I liked his positivity, but much of it was misplaced at times. I also never liked how he couldn't get his team ready to play less than average teams. NY needs someone more disciplined. I would like to see Thibodeau come to the Warriors if he gets out of Chicago, but I don't see that happening. If not I think Scott Brooks would be a good fit. He knows how to work with stars.
[/quote]

There are better chances of me winning Super Bowl MVP next year than there are of Thibs going to GS.
[/quote]

So you're saying there's a chance?

[MtlJeff]

I believe Thibodeau is under contract and would have to be given permission to interview for other jobs. He would have to basically tell Chicago he was going to tank the season to get that

[baseballfrk8998]

Where did this Hibbert come from?! He put on a show tonight!

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1399513455' post='9253861']Where did this Hibbert come from?! He put on a show tonight![/quote]

I guess Michael beat the MonStars and Hibbert got his powers back.