The Wizard Short Game Technique Videos(merged)

[nevets88]

[quote name='Jayman101' timestamp='1383364265' post='8091258']
[quote name='tradekid' timestamp='1383349331' post='8090346']
FWIW ......as I type you can get a Scratch 8620 milled 58 degree with 14 degrees of bounce for $69.99 at Rockbottom. $57.39 if you got a coupon.
[/quote]

Would 14 degrees of bounce be too much for this technique?
[/quote]

I asked Dan this specific question when it was going for $40 @ RB, I was going to get 14, he said go with 12* IF you can get the EGG grind. I wound up getting 14 because I have a couple of 12* and wanted to see what 14 was like sorry Dan, but he made me aware of the many custom grind options on wedges as I don't keep up with equipment advances.

I should take a photo of the 14* I got and maybe someone can tell me what grind it is because it looks like it hasn't been grinded at all.

[peacedog]

My fear with this method is since the leading edge is sitting up how do you make sure it doesn't connect with the ball first? Tried this a few times with success then had a couple hit the leading edge and scared me away, I know I'm doing something incorrectly just not sure how to fix it.

[Hstead]

As Dan has said, there is some shaft lean, so that lowers the leading edge below the equator. Dan explained to me that people believe incorrectly that the leading edge has to get below the ball, but in reality the leading edge only has to be below the equator which is considerably higher off of the ground. That is how he can hit lob shots off of the concrete because the leading edge is below the equator.

[Jayman101]

[quote name='peacedog' timestamp='1383400975' post='8092098']
My fear with this method is since the leading edge is sitting up how do you make sure it doesn't connect with the ball first? Tried this a few times with success then had a couple hit the leading edge and scared me away, I know I'm doing something incorrectly just not sure how to fix it.
[/quote]

I've wondered about and feared the same thing with this technique.... I don't know if it will work or not, but what I'm going to try and do is err on the fat side. With all that bounce, if you do this right, you can't dig in, so as long as you practice enough with it and keep in mind if anything, hit it fat, I think one would be alright. Will see how it plays out in the real world!

[Jayman101]

[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1383392400' post='8091764']
[quote name='Jayman101' timestamp='1383364265' post='8091258']
[quote name='tradekid' timestamp='1383349331' post='8090346']
FWIW ......as I type you can get a Scratch 8620 milled 58 degree with 14 degrees of bounce for $69.99 at Rockbottom. $57.39 if you got a coupon.
[/quote]

Would 14 degrees of bounce be too much for this technique?
[/quote]

I asked Dan this specific question when it was going for $40 @ RB, I was going to get 14, he said go with 12* IF you can get the EGG grind. I wound up getting 14 because I have a couple of 12* and wanted to see what 14 was like sorry Dan, but he made me aware of the many custom grind options on wedges as I don't keep up with equipment advances.

I should take a photo of the 14* I got and maybe someone can tell me what grind it is because it looks like it hasn't been grinded at all.
[/quote]

So, does the 14 work okay for you? So, was Dan saying the 14 would be okay if you couldn't get the 12 w/ EGG grind?

[InaSilentWay]

Reinforces some of the earlier discussions early in the year about shaft angle and AOA. Great to have video to demonstrate the principles. Seems very counter intuitive that a more vertical shaft leads to a shallower AOA, but Dan explains and shows it.

My wedge play is awful Sticking the clubhead into the ground while my hands come off the handle isn't any fun. Again, seems counterintuitive to move the ball that forward and still have forward shaft lean. Will have to take the plunge.

[GeoffDickson]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1383402466' post='8092162']
As Dan has said, there is some shaft lean, so that lowers the leading edge below the equator. Dan explained to me that people believe incorrectly that the leading edge has to get below the ball, but in reality the leading edge only has to be below the equator which is considerably higher off of the ground. That is how he can hit lob shots off of the concrete because the leading edge is below the equator.
[/quote]

Couldn't get to sleep last night as I was trying to connect these dots - leading edge below the equator is all that's required.

[GeoffDickson]

So if a club has 12* bounce, and you apply 13* of forward shaft lean, then the leading edge will likely get stuck in the ground.

If you apply between 3* and 12* of forward shaft lean, then the club will slide.This is the goldilocks zone....not too much, not too little.

If you apply less than 3*, then the probability of the leading edge hitting the equator increases (which means you have bladed it across the green)

Note that the 3* is an arbitrary figure.

Is this thinking logical?

[Schnee]

Snuck outside between rain showers to give this a try. Worked great for me so far. Probably better with my 60 with 12* bounce than this which was a 60 with 9*. Better contact, more spin.

http://youtu.be/2XsA7ycdUbM
http://youtu.be/RsWMRVujrIo

[Hstead]

[quote name='GeoffDickson' timestamp='1383431814' post='8093542']
So if a club has 12* bounce, and you apply 13* of forward shaft lean, then the leading edge will likely get stuck in the ground.

If you apply between 3* and 12* of forward shaft lean, then the club will slide.This is the goldilocks zone....not too much, not too little.

If you apply less than 3*, then the probability of the leading edge hitting the equator increases (which means you have bladed it across the green)

Note that the 3* is an arbitrary figure.

Is this thinking logical?
[/quote]

I think it may be a little more complex than just subtracting the shaft lean etc since the grind has a great deal to do with the effective bounce when you open the face. I know Dan prefers a grind with heel relief, so when you open the face with heel relief it lowers the leading edge more. Make sense?

[markfax]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1383441462' post='8094152']
[quote name='GeoffDickson' timestamp='1383431814' post='8093542']
So if a club has 12* bounce, and you apply 13* of forward shaft lean, then the leading edge will likely get stuck in the ground.

If you apply between 3* and 12* of forward shaft lean, then the club will slide.This is the goldilocks zone....not too much, not too little.

If you apply less than 3*, then the probability of the leading edge hitting the equator increases (which means you have bladed it across the green)

Note that the 3* is an arbitrary figure.

Is this thinking logical?
[/quote]

I think it may be a little more complex than just subtracting the shaft lean etc since the grind has a great deal to do with the effective bounce when you open the face. I know Dan prefers a grind with heel relief, so when you open the face with heel relief it lowers the leading edge more. Make sense?
[/quote]

Heath - that makes perfect sense.

Does the Vokey TVD K 58 have enough heel relief to use Dan's technique here?

[Hstead]

Yes, I really like the TVD K. I asked Dan for recommendation and he said M and V but I felt like the K would work too since it has 10* of bounce but has more camber and a wide sole with some heel relief compared to some of the wedges like the M which has a little more bounce but when you open it compared to the K, I feel like it almost has less effective bounce since the sole is thinner. The K doesn't dig on me at all. The leading edge is very rounded off too and it is great from bunkers.

[reflection]

I tried this technique in my yard today and was able to get the ball in the air with ease. I would like to try it more, but I have a question about aiming. I have always used a square club face alignment when pitching. The ball flies perpendicular to the groves on the club face so I knew where to aim. When I open the face using this method, I am not able to aim exactly where I want. The ball flies to the right, but not exactly in the direction perpendicular to the groves and not in line with my leg alignment - the ball flies somewhere in between. How do you aim using this method or is it more of an approximation? Please provide some guidance because I think I'm missing something. Thanks.

[dairic]

I'm finding that I get best results from a slightly closed stance. I find it easier to sweep the ball this way with the ball set forward. Has anyone else experimented with stance alignment?

[kaimojurgis1]

Sorry for bringing it up again.. just a few unanswered questions (sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, could not find it so far..):
1. Would this 58/60 degree wedge used for all around the green shots including the bunkers?
2. From what I see in vokey's website, the only 58/60* wedge available with >10* of bounce is SM4 58/12. Is that correct or I'm missing something (never used titleist/vokey before, not and expert with models )?
3. Would a shot from a rough be similar to the one with buried lie from the bunker except the length/power of the swing?
4. What would be the adjustments to make from the "tight lie" scenario in order to hit the ball from a good lie?

[iteachgolf]

I use 60 exclusively. The V grind is available through custom shop or tour can only. 58-12 sm4 M grind is closest. Rough depends on lie. A normal lie is same as tight lie without raising the handle

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1383447872' post='8094538']
I'm finding that I get best results from a slightly closed stance. I find it easier to sweep the ball this way with the ball set forward. Has anyone else experimented with stance alignment?
[/quote]

My feet are slightly closed on almost all shots. Gets right hip out of the way at setup for backswing.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='reflection' timestamp='1383447795' post='8094534']
I tried this technique in my yard today and was able to get the ball in the air with ease. I would like to try it more, but I have a question about aiming. I have always used a square club face alignment when pitching. The ball flies perpendicular to the groves on the club face so I knew where to aim. When I open the face using this method, I am not able to aim exactly where I want. The ball flies to the right, but not exactly in the direction perpendicular to the groves and not in line with my leg alignment - the ball flies somewhere in between. How do you aim using this method or is it more of an approximation? Please provide some guidance because I think I'm missing something. Thanks.
[/quote]
Ball should fly straight if lie angles are right. Grind does matter for start line. Distance control is by far more important than exact start line. Your miss will always be greater distance wise than accuracy. Primary focus should be distance control

[skraly]

[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1383174552' post='8080628']
I don't know why "using the bounce" has been such a hard concept for me. Maybe because you hear "use the bounce" often but not a lot of the "how" or "why", except for some instructors good enough to help out here.

Great video, great discussion.

[/quote]
Maybe the term bounce conjures up images of the club bouncing off of the ground and hitting it thin. Try thinking of sole as having more "glide"' not "bounce". The more glide the sole has the more it glides through sand or across the turf.

[sblack5]

Because it hasn't been asked yet, what about using this to produce a lower trajectory spinner that so many people would love to have in their arsenal?

[InaSilentWay]

[quote name='ljnes1' timestamp='1383379041' post='8091594']
Is it just me, or is there the halloween theme song going on in the background in the sand video... I couldn't focus, haha.

Awesome videos though. Adding to my arsenal.
[/quote]

I was thinking it was The Goblins of Argento's Suspira. Images of the blind guy getting mauled by his dog kept popping into my head as Dan was explaining sound bunker play technique.

[ljnes1]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510279' post='8096718']
I use 60 exclusively. The V grind is available through custom shop or tour can only. 58-12 sm4 M grind is closest. Rough depends on lie. A normal lie is same as tight lie without raising the handle
[/quote]
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510338' post='8096724']
My feet are slightly closed on almost all shots. Gets right hip out of the way at setup for backswing.
[/quote]

Dan, would you recommend the TVD-M grind in a 60? What are the specs that you recommend for the V-grind? Do the optional the pre-worn edge or the bounce channel do anything useful?

Are there certain shots for which you flare the left foot? Do you have any opinion on the left foot flare?

Thanks!

[dlam]

What is a V grind?
The M grind looks exactly like Callaways C grind with rounded out heel and toe relief

[ljnes1]

@dlam- http://www.vokey.com/wedgeworks/hand-ground.aspx

[Jayman101]

[quote name='ljnes1' timestamp='1383556932' post='8099000']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510279' post='8096718']
I use 60 exclusively. The V grind is available through custom shop or tour can only. 58-12 sm4 M grind is closest. Rough depends on lie. A normal lie is same as tight lie without raising the handle
[/quote]
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510338' post='8096724']
My feet are slightly closed on almost all shots. Gets right hip out of the way at setup for backswing.
[/quote]

Dan, would you recommend the TVD-M grind in a 60? What are the specs that you recommend for the V-grind? Do the optional the pre-worn edge or the bounce channel do anything useful?

Are there certain shots for which you flare the left foot? Do you have any opinion on the left foot flare?

Thanks!
[/quote]

And do you have to get the V grind for this to work the best? Or will it suffice to just get a 58 or 60 with 12-14 degrees of bounce? Really would love to hear from Dan or others who know what it takes equipment-wise to do this well.

[naj959]

Hey Dan I've been having a lot of success with this technique but I have noticed that I can't really execute it unless I keep my right arm straight throughout the motion and actively try and straighten through impact. Would this be a good idea in a full swing. I know in my swingfix lesson you stated that I don't have enough right wrist bend and don't go inside enough in the takeaway so I'm not sure if the straight right arm would be beneficial to my full swing.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1383526306' post='8097776']
Because it hasn't been asked yet, what about using this to produce a lower trajectory spinner that so many people would love to have in their arsenal?
[/quote]

This... First thought was that you'd need a steeper AoA, but then I remember reading something that after a certain point you actually start seeing less spin as AoA steepens.... Curious as to your thoughts on this?
also read the first few pages of this thread, geez.... somebody has some serious issues. Isn't that guy like a 15 that plays like once a month and has a different swing philosophy multiple times a week?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Jayman101' timestamp='1383593589' post='8100856']
[quote name='ljnes1' timestamp='1383556932' post='8099000']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510279' post='8096718']
I use 60 exclusively. The V grind is available through custom shop or tour can only. 58-12 sm4 M grind is closest. Rough depends on lie. A normal lie is same as tight lie without raising the handle
[/quote]
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1383510338' post='8096724']
My feet are slightly closed on almost all shots. Gets right hip out of the way at setup for backswing.
[/quote]

Dan, would you recommend the TVD-M grind in a 60? What are the specs that you recommend for the V-grind? Do the optional the pre-worn edge or the bounce channel do anything useful?

Are there certain shots for which you flare the left foot? Do you have any opinion on the left foot flare?

Thanks!
[/quote]

And do you have to get the V grind for this to work the best? Or will it suffice to just get a 58 or 60 with 12-14 degrees of bounce? Really would love to hear from Dan or others who know what it takes equipment-wise to do this well.
[/quote]

M grind offered on retail SM4 Vokey 58-12 is good. The V grind has the bounce peak in the center of the sole where the M grind has the peak about 3/4 of the way back. I prefer it more centralized but both work well

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='naj959' timestamp='1383594816' post='8100970']
Hey Dan I've been having a lot of success with this technique but I have noticed that I can't really execute it unless I keep my right arm straight throughout the motion and actively try and straighten through impact. Would this be a good idea in a full swing. I know in my swingfix lesson you stated that I don't have enough right wrist bend and don't go inside enough in the takeaway so I'm not sure if the straight right arm would be beneficial to my full swing.
[/quote]

Right arm being straight and right wrist bend while keeping club head closer to the ground (below the hands) longer are separate issues. The setup would help you get club more in and shallow in the takeaway

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1383596007' post='8101056']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1383526306' post='8097776']
Because it hasn't been asked yet, what about using this to produce a lower trajectory spinner that so many people would love to have in their arsenal?
[/quote]

This... First thought was that you'd need a steeper AoA, but then I remember reading something that after a certain point you actually start seeing less spin as AoA steepens.... Curious as to your thoughts on this?
also read the first few pages of this thread, geez.... somebody has some serious issues. Isn't that guy like a 15 that plays like once a month and has a different swing philosophy multiple times a week?
[/quote]

done with square face (if you want to get technical around 52* or effective loft at impact) ball forward and slight shaft lean. Key is shallow angle of attack. Last thing you wanna do is it hit high on the face if you are expecting it to spin. Square face at setup shallow angle of attack and then its simply a function of speed and solid contact