PGA tour "giving" not all it's cracked up to be...

[Jamboy72]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10089803/pga-tour-tax-breaks-help-fuel-giving-which-falls-industry-standards

 

Thought this was pretty interesting!

[xabia]

I have always assumed this to be the case and I am not sure we should be surprised. The same holds true for all kinds of high profile athletes charities and other organizations

No organization is above wanting to make and keep its money no matter what they spin

[bk52]

Interesting article. Thanks.

[highdraw69]

wow...that's a bombshell of a report. thanks for the link

[ctmason_98]

This isn't anything really surprising, but I'm surprised that more haven't rushed to the defense of the Tour by claiming it's their money and they can do whatever they want.

Which of course isn't the point of the article at all, rather that it's about what the Tour represents itself as being....and further how they benefit from not paying corporate taxes.

I'm guessing ESPN is now an arm of the vast liberal media hoping to besmirch the good name of charitable individuals who are under NO OBLIGATION to give anyone a dime?

[nbg352]

CTMason,
Not much point in calling yourself a charity, if you're not being charitable.....

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386960803' post='8295563']
This isn't anything really surprising, but I'm surprised that more haven't rushed to the defense of the Tour by claiming it's their money and they can do whatever they want.

Which of course isn't the point of the article at all, rather that it's about what the Tour represents itself as being....and further how they benefit from not paying corporate taxes.

I'm guessing ESPN is now an arm of the vast liberal media hoping to besmirch the good name of charitable individuals who are under NO OBLIGATION to give anyone a dime?
[/quote]

I really do think there is an interesting conversation/debate here in the sense that no one is under the obligation to "donate" anything to chartity...at the same time, if you are going to go through the process and claim all the benefits of a tax exempt status, then don't you have to play by the rules which allow you to enjoy this status??

[ctmason_98]

Sorry my sarcasm didn't come through. My point was that I was not so much surprised by the PGA Tour's actions (I constantly get reamed by golfing buddies for criticizing the Tour and First Tee...who more or less operate the same way). What I am surprised about is that there haven't been more people on here using the standard "liberal nonsense" arguments. Pepperturbo should be all over this...he must be busy.

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386962016' post='8295683']
Sorry my sarcasm didn't come through. My point was that I was not so much surprised by the PGA Tour's actions (I constantly get reamed by golfing buddies for criticizing the Tour and First Tee...who more or less operate the same way). What I am surprised about is that there haven't been more people on here using the standard "liberal nonsense" arguments. Pepperturbo should be all over this...he must be busy.
[/quote]

Got ya

[Sean2]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386960803' post='8295563']
This isn't anything really surprising, but I'm surprised that more haven't rushed to the defense of the Tour by claiming it's their money and they can do whatever they want.

Which of course isn't the point of the article at all, rather that it's about what the Tour represents itself as being....and further how they benefit from not paying corporate taxes.

I'm guessing ESPN is now an arm of the vast liberal media hoping to besmirch the good name of charitable individuals who are [b]under NO OBLIGATION to give anyone a dime?[/b]
[/quote]

But then wouldn't they lose the tax exemptions? :-)

[bogeypro]

I have said for years that 501c should have to give a minimum to be considered.


This is the most surprising to me from the article:

"The amount actually spent on charity -- the money given to St. Jude's -- was $1.5 million, or 10 percent of tournament expenses. [b]Only $253,742 of that was actual cash to the research hospital.[/b] The rest went to St. Jude ads aired during the televised tournament, pro-am entry fees and air travel for celebrities."

[ctmason_98]

I can only guess that the PR folks at PGA HQ are busily ringing up every charity they can get a hold of today to "refute" the article and make sure they defend the PGA.....OR ELSE.

[highdraw69]

[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1386963259' post='8295763']
I have said for years that 501c should have to give a minimum to be considered.


This is the most surprising to me from the article:

"The amount actually spent on charity -- the money given to St. Jude's -- was $1.5 million, or 10 percent of tournament expenses. [b]Only $253,742 of that was actual cash to the research hospital.[/b] The rest went to St. Jude ads aired during the televised tournament, pro-am entry fees and air travel for celebrities."
[/quote]

that is interesting...why are they paying for pro-am entry fees, isn't that a receivable, not an expense? also, why do they have to pay travel expenses for celebrities? is the pga tour acting as a kick-back operation to their sponsors?

[ctmason_98]

Not exactly a "kick back" but it's quite common for the PGA and other organizations to claim charitable donations include paying for VIPs from the charity or its guests to travel/attend functions. I have no idea what the author includes in "celebrities" but that would be my guess.

In theory hosting VIPs from St. Jude's for example...the Tour could (and probably does) include the cost of a ticket, suite rental, food, beverage and pro-am entry provided to those individuals.

You couldn't do the same for a contingent from a sponsor per se.....at least they shouldn't be doing that.

[Blues Golfer]

Not a very compelling article, actually. I do not rate the value of a four day event, two days of which are televised for at least 4 and probably 8 hours, based ONLY on the cash it turns over to a charity. The value of the exposure to the region and the charity are significant. TV time like that is not cheap. Local media coverage that mentions your charity name is not going to show up at a bake sale or a quilt-off.

And finally, the SCHMMMMOOOOZZZZEEEE factor. They use these events to sweet-talk the titans of industry in those communities out of additional donations, or as a "comp" to their benefactors for the hospitality tent, the club house pass, the driving range pass, the golf clinic, and the pro am.

The article was written like the writer has never actually been in the field of business. Which is completely possible.

[lumberman2462]

I bet Finchem had a melt down when he read this.

[Mountaineer]

As far as I'm concerned as long as the NFL is considered a non-profit organization, the PGA Tour can have the title and do whatever the hell they want.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386960803' post='8295563']
This isn't anything really surprising, but I'm surprised that more haven't rushed to the defense of the Tour by claiming it's their money and they can do whatever they want.

Which of course isn't the point of the article at all, rather that it's about what the Tour represents itself as being....and further how they benefit from not paying corporate taxes.

I'm guessing ESPN is now an arm of the vast liberal media hoping to besmirch the good name of charitable individuals who are under NO OBLIGATION to give anyone a dime?
[/quote]

Edited: Posted said he was being sarcastic. Don't want to assume and be " that guy " for no reason!

[SatelliteGuy]

We, as taxpayers, are not OBLIGATED to subsidize millionaires air travel and tournament winnings.

Don't want to be charitable.... Don't.

Don't ask me to subsidize your business if you don't want to give.


Pretty simple if you ask me...

[Playaway]

The NFL pink jersey breast cancer "charity" was a bit scam-esque. Less than 10% of the pie went to cancer research.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1386962706' post='8295735']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386960803' post='8295563']
This isn't anything really surprising, but I'm surprised that more haven't rushed to the defense of the Tour by claiming it's their money and they can do whatever they want.

Which of course isn't the point of the article at all, rather that it's about what the Tour represents itself as being....and further how they benefit from not paying corporate taxes.

I'm guessing ESPN is now an arm of the vast liberal media hoping to besmirch the good name of charitable individuals who are [b]under NO OBLIGATION to give anyone a dime?[/b]
[/quote]

But then wouldn't they lose the tax exemptions? :-)
[/quote]

I was wondering when someone would break it to him.

[ctmason_98]

I was joking....it's what i figured someone would say by now.....because see the PGA is doing a great thing and these muckrakers just need to shut up because...

You know what I'm just going to go to bed.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386990425' post='8297721']
[b][size=5]I was joking.[/size][/b]...it's what i figured someone would say by now.....because see the PGA is doing a great thing and these muckrakers just need to shut up because...

You know what I'm just going to go to bed.
[/quote]

Well...be less good at it then.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1386990425' post='8297721']
I was joking....it's what i figured someone would say by now.....because see the PGA is doing a great thing and these muckrakers just need to shut up because...

You know what I'm just going to go to bed.
[/quote]

That's why I edited it and shut my pie hole!



All good man...

As far as the topic goes.. Does anyone believe major corporations... Which the tour is... No matter what they call themselves... Actually donate money because they care??!

Tax Exempt and an easy way to generate more money from Sponsors.... It's self focused.... Always...

It's about money.... It always is.

But who cares... That's the American Way.

[lumberman2462]

We had an LPGA event at my former club for several years. A local charitable organization was the biggest beneficiary. I can promise everyone that there is no way the tournament could have happened if it weren't for the volunteers provided by that charity. They were glad to get whatever cash was paid, their larger individual contributors played in the prime pro-am groups and kicked in big dollars that benefited the charity and our club got some needed cash.

Sadly our Tournament went away during the Bivins tenure.

I'm sure there are many questionable expenses that get paid out of tournament revenues.....

But if the Tour's business model were to change I wonder how the charities would replace those lost dollars?

My guess is that you'd see the smaller market tournaments disappear....including most of the Web.com....and leave us only with the bigger tournaments with the big corporate sponsors remaining.

[playa]

This sort of thing is rife right throughout the so called not for profit sector. At some point greedy capitalists saw charities as a cash cow, and over the years hard working volunteers with good intentions have been politely shoved aside to make way for unscrupulous paid executives. On paper it looks great cause they are making way more money, but as seen in this case that money goes to everyone else first and what little if any goes to charity. It is a sad indictment on our society.

[Wriggles]

The "charity" business gets very little to the charity. Should swanky country clubs be 990 tax exempt organizations? Should American legions? I am a retired CPA. I had a couple 990 clients in my history. An American legion post spent very little on "Americanism," and spent most of its donations and bingo money sending delegates to meetings and conventions. Monthly dinners at restaurants after the "meeting" for the board was the norm. No boxed pizza or McDonalds. This was a very small post, I shudder to think what goes on at a big post.

I know of one "charity" (I was not affiliated in any way) which had about $ 150K donations per year. Out of that, the husband and wife founders and "board" paid themselves somewhere around $ 140K, and $ 10K was distributed as "charity."

The tax code in many ways is an honor system. There's a great deal of dishonor out there, either directly or indirectly.

[vbb]

You know a lot of pro athletes have charities and foundations as a way to hire and pay their close friends and families for running their organizations, right? Unfortunately a lot of donations to charities are more publicity stunts than anything.

BUT I agree that a large part of putting on events is to get publicity and the attention of major donors, not to directly raise money with the event itself. If Joe Millionaire attends an event and gets access to politicians and execs from charities then the idea is they can all lobby the millionaire for donations. These events are about the networking more than direct fundraising.

[J13]

Just another way for the money to stay at the top and the middle class who pay the bulk of taxes keep paying. So business as usual.

You want to see how good natured most of the charitable donor's are? Get rid of all tax breaks for any charitable donation. Now watch the mice scatter. This certainly isn't pga tour issue this is world wide.

[pgagreg1]

[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1386963259' post='8295763']
I have said for years that 501c should have to give a minimum to be considered.


This is the most surprising to me from the article:

"The amount actually spent on charity -- the money given to St. Jude's -- was $1.5 million, or 10 percent of tournament expenses. [b]Only $253,742 of that was actual cash to the research hospital.[/b] The rest went to St. Jude ads aired during the televised tournament, pro-am entry fees and air travel for celebrities."
[/quote]

So do you think that St. Jude's would rather have $253,742 in cash or just not sponsor the tournament and get $0 in cash ?