PGA tour "giving" not all it's cracked up to be...

[Smiley_Face]

It seems to me that a PGA golf tournament is a PR event more than a cash generator. They advertise and fly in people who can make a large contribution or those who already have as a thank you. St. Jude seems to be happy with this arrangement and has been for years. Why would that be so it they were being cheated?

[Holy Moses]

The Shriners Hospitals Open lost $4.5 million. Nice work Justin!

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/report-tax-exempt-status-tournaments-under-scrutiny/

[smiley9929]

That was a pretty crappy and one sided piece of 'journalism'.

The 'missing' $200 million in federal taxes over 20 years they mention wouldn't even cover security for the annual Presidential vacation to Hawaii.

Here's hoping to never watch a Major or any other tourney on ABC/ESPN.

[Holy Moses]

Well if you can't cover the President's security through your taxes, by all means keep it for yourself!

[cdnglf]

[quote name='pgagreg1' timestamp='1387027741' post='8298701']
[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1386963259' post='8295763']
I have said for years that 501c should have to give a minimum to be considered.


This is the most surprising to me from the article:

"The amount actually spent on charity -- the money given to St. Jude's -- was $1.5 million, or 10 percent of tournament expenses. [b]Only $253,742 of that was actual cash to the research hospital.[/b] The rest went to St. Jude ads aired during the televised tournament, pro-am entry fees and air travel for celebrities."
[/quote]

So do you think that St. Jude's would rather have $253,742 in cash or just not sponsor the tournament and get $0 in cash ?
[/quote]

If St Jude decided to do something else with its investment - particularly the time of its volunteers - could it get a better return?

[smiley9929]

[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1387037531' post='8299293']
Well if you can't cover the President's security through your taxes, by all means keep it for yourself!
[/quote]

There's a WHOLE lot more corporate welfare and tax advantages - into the Billions of dollars - for large corporations like Exxon-Mobile and GE than there is for the PGA Tour.

The PGA Tour provides a lot more to communities and charities that just dollars can measure.

[cxx]

Suppose they were not a tax exempt charity. What would be different. You don't get taxed on revenue only profit. Expenses off the top, pay the government and the PGA tour keeps the rest. People don't volunteer because of the charity. They do it to be part of the tournament. It's better for everyone, especially the beneficiaries of the tournament, to keep it the way it is.

So who takes the hit when a tournament loses money?

[Fade]

Interesting article. I hope something comes of this. Having to listen to the charity nonsense and the corporate sponsors' [color=#808080]sp[/color]interviews during PGA Tour broadcasts has annoyed me for years, and, in contrast, I enjoy watching The Masters tournament much better. Now that Augusta National Golf Club has entered the 20th century, perhaps the time is ripe for them to take over the Tour.

[gwlee7]

If you are allowed to retain all of your surplus cash into a $700 million war chest, I guess you haven't technically made a profit. Yet, I paid out about a third of my salary in state, federal, and local taxes last year. Something is not quite right with how this plays out to me.

[Birddog2]

Wow, very interesting.
As much as an event does for the community very very little goes to the principal charity of the event... So why is Congress going after Active and retired military and federal employees for tax revenue instead of the PGA, NFL etc? 50% should go to the charity named in the event for non-profit status.

[SHIVAN]

She said it could account for additional tax revenue of $200,000,000 over the last 20yrs? $200M is 1/5th of a billion....we are dealing with numbers in the trillions EVERY YEAR now...

This loophole for the PGA means scratch in the overall scheme of taxation, to be honest.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

[quote name='smiley9929' timestamp='1387038794' post='8299361']
[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1387037531' post='8299293']
Well if you can't cover the President's security through your taxes, by all means keep it for yourself!
[/quote]

There's a WHOLE lot more corporate welfare and tax advantages - into the Billions of dollars - for large corporations like Exxon-Mobile and GE than there is for the PGA Tour.

The PGA Tour provides a lot more to communities and charities that just dollars can measure.
[/quote]

Don't forget Apple and Google. What many of these companies charge Uncle Sam is astronomical. One well known software company charges insane amount and total waste. The CEO has one of the largest yachts in the world.

ESPN are scum but these pro-am charities are often a joke. I know someone who was doing a charity golf tourney with no golf pros. They had a woman singer celeb - you would know her name. She wanted a private jet to pick her up and take her back plus lodging, money etc. The cost was easily $30,000+. Smaller exec jets were not an option. A mid size corp jet would do.

The biggest scams going are universities. The research grants from Uncle Sam are largely a waste of money and are in the hundreds of billions. I know a famous school known for medical research where the primary objective is getting grant money. This is common. We had the NFL concussion football lawsuit which they supposedly settled for $800 million. What about college players? The stupid "protection" over the years has caused more injuries. Lexan helmets.

Kids going to college today will be debt slaves for life in most cases to pay for gold plated professor and admin pensions and coach's $5 million salary. It is child abuse.

Pretty much every industry anymore is a scam. Medical, legal, political, entertainment (talk about not paying taxes), energy, defense (one of the worst) and the list goes on and on. All designed to fleece taxpayers and the public.

[R Hagan]

The whole idea of business being non profit I always thought to be kind of ridiculous. I mean, how many companies aren't trying to make a profit?

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

[quote name='Birddog2' timestamp='1387043772' post='8299685']
Wow, very interesting.
As much as an event does for the community very very little goes to the principal charity of the event... So why is Congress going after Active and retired military and federal employees for tax revenue instead of the PGA, NFL etc? 50% should go to the charity named in the event for non-profit status.
[/quote]

They are going after military pay and pensions.
The NFL can go to h*ll. The NFL have a legalized monopoly status plus tax benefits. As far as I know - anyone here could probably start a golf tour.

These free ball stadiums for billionaire owners is total BS. The idiocy of the people in Irving (?) for getting stuck with over $1 billion for Cowboys stadium. The same thing in Miami with the baseball stadium. New Orleans wasted $450 million to keep the Saints before the big hurricane. That money could have been used to fortify pumps and levees. N.O.'s levee system is a gigantic scam slush fund of fraud. Detroit is broke but supposedly a new mega stadium for the Lions will be built. Football teams blackmailing the local community that they might move.

Golf courses usually do not take money out of taxpayers pockets like these stupid stadiums. My local muni pays for itself. The only argument might be that public courses owned by private people or corps are at a disadvantage competing with muni courses. Lots of privately owned public courses are dropping like flies in this economy.

[Holy Moses]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1387044461' post='8299723']
She said it could account for additional tax revenue of $200,000,000 over the last 20yrs? $200M is 1/5th of a billion....we are dealing with numbers in the trillions EVERY YEAR now...

This loophole for the PGA means scratch in the overall scheme of taxation, to be honest.
[/quote]

The problem is that there are hundreds, if not thousands of organizations that do what the PGA Tour is doing. Maybe it's not tens of millions of dollars per year per organization, but it certainly adds up. Saying "Oh it's not billions of dollars" is no justification.

[PGArox]

[quote name='pgagreg1' timestamp='1387027741' post='8298701']
[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1386963259' post='8295763']
I have said for years that 501c should have to give a minimum to be considered.


This is the most surprising to me from the article:

"The amount actually spent on charity -- the money given to St. Jude's -- was $1.5 million, or 10 percent of tournament expenses. [b]Only $253,742 of that was actual cash to the research hospital.[/b] The rest went to St. Jude ads aired during the televised tournament, pro-am entry fees and air travel for celebrities."
[/quote]


So do you think that St. Jude's would rather have $253,742 in cash or just not sponsor the tournament and get $0 in cash ?
[/quote]

The article fails to mention the intangibles.

For the last 15 years I give $50 a month to the St. Jude's Childrens Hospital and Research Center. I was inspired to do that only from watching the PGA TOUR's St. Jude Classic.

[Mr. Herbert]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1387044461' post='8299723']
She said it could account for additional tax revenue of $200,000,000 over the last 20yrs? $200M is 1/5th of a billion....we are dealing with numbers in the trillions EVERY YEAR now...

This loophole for the PGA means scratch in the overall scheme of taxation, to be honest.
[/quote]

So what percentage of the overall debt does a single entity have to owe before it's okay to do something about it? By your logic, the IRS shouldn't bother going after anyone who doesn't pay taxes. After all, a single taxpayer could only owe a tiny fraction of our debt.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Mr. Herbert' timestamp='1387049913' post='8300041']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1387044461' post='8299723']
She said it could account for additional tax revenue of $200,000,000 over the last 20yrs? $200M is 1/5th of a billion....we are dealing with numbers in the trillions EVERY YEAR now...

This loophole for the PGA means scratch in the overall scheme of taxation, to be honest.
[/quote]

So what percentage of the overall debt does a single entity have to owe before it's okay to do something about it? By your logic, the IRS shouldn't bother going after anyone who doesn't pay taxes. After all, a single taxpayer could only owe a tiny fraction of our debt.
[/quote]

They threw Jim Thorpe in jail over a "mere" few million, so...

[cxx]

The biggest problem with the idea that you could change the law and somehow you would capture the money that you believe could be better spent, is that if you change the law, the money won't be there when you go to collect it. People and organizations adapt. That and it's a fallacy to believe that anyone else has a right to the money.

It is also a bit silly to compare the PGA tour or any other similar organization to the Salvation Army. How much charitable giving do you think there would be if everyone involved had to be in sack cloth and ashes. If you eliminate the fun and benefits you will eliminate a great deal of the giving. Do you think that is what the recipients want? I'm sure there are abuses, but deal with those rather than do something stupid.

Reminds me of the people who are now protesting (from Cobb county) the move of the Braves from downtown to lower Cobb county. It is an incredible deal for them. But, some mistakenly believe that the money would be available for other purposes if not spent on the stadium. It wouldn't be. If your pet project needs money, you'll have to get out there and raise it based on the merits of your project. Otherwise they'll be no money for you.

[MtlJeff]

I don't know what to make of the numbers. So they donate 3X more then the tax exemptions they get?

Don't individuals get tax breaks for donations to charity. How do those compare to what the PGA tour is gettting?

Let's say a person gives 25000$ to charity, what kind of tax refund does he get? I'm genuinely asking because i don't know how it works it the US.

But it doesn't seem horrible that the tour is giving away far more then the benefits it's getting? or am i missing something....other then the obvious that they aren't contributing to the government, but they are contributing to other things

[cxx]

I do get tired of hearing about the neighborhood reclamation every time the tour championship comes to East Lake.

[smiley9929]

FYI there are a lot of great comments at the end of the ESPN story...mostly [b]supporting and appreciating[/b] the PGA Tour's efforts..

[url="http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10089803/pga-tour-tax-breaks-help-fuel-giving-which-falls-industry-standards"]http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10089803/pga-tour-tax-breaks-help-fuel-giving-which-falls-industry-standards[/url]

[PZero]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1387026989' post='8298677']
Just another way for the money to stay at the top and the middle class who pay the bulk of taxes keep paying. So business as usual.

You want to see how good natured most of the charitable donor's are? Get rid of all tax breaks for any charitable donation. Now watch the mice scatter. This certainly isn't pga tour issue this is world wide.
[/quote]

I couldn't have said it better myself. People are so blind to what actually goes on.

[RIRider]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1387044461' post='8299723']
She said it could account for additional tax revenue of $200,000,000 over the last 20yrs? $200M is 1/5th of a billion....we are dealing with numbers in the trillions EVERY YEAR now...

This loophole for the PGA means scratch in the overall scheme of taxation, to be honest.
[/quote]
A scratch here, a scratch there, before you know it you're bleeding like a stuck pig. Last time I looked, our economy was bleeding.

[lumberman2462]

Several are missing a few big points.

Say you throw a $15 million dollar golf tournament....

$5 million for prize money - the players pay taxes on the winnings.

7-8 million to vendors. Thats revenue And they'll pay taxes on their profit.

A few million for staff and salaries and whatnot - those people pay taxes on that.

Not to mention the positive economic impact on local communities from a bunch of rich folks coming to town to play and watch golf.

PGA Tour is a good deal for everyone.

If Shriners lost money....my guess is they probably weren't counting the cash donations they received from the big time individual donors that wrote a check as a thank you for for the prime time pro-am spot, party, hospitality tents and other perks. Those count too.

[playa]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1387066299' post='8300957']
Several are missing a few big points.

Say you throw a $15 million dollar golf tournament....

$5 million for prize money - the players pay taxes on the winnings.

7-8 million to vendors. Thats revenue And they'll pay taxes on their profit.

A few million for staff and salaries and whatnot - those people pay taxes on that.

Not to mention the positive economic impact on local communities from a bunch of rich folks coming to town to play and watch golf.

PGA Tour is a good deal for everyone.

If Shriners lost money....my guess is they probably weren't counting the cash donations they received from the big time individual donors that wrote a check as a thank you for for the prime time pro-am spot, party, hospitality tents and other perks. Those count too.
[/quote]
And how much of those donations go to CEOs performance bonuses etc.

[lumberman2462]

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1387066875' post='8300995']
[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1387066299' post='8300957']
Several are missing a few big points.

Say you throw a $15 million dollar golf tournament....

$5 million for prize money - the players pay taxes on the winnings.

7-8 million to vendors. Thats revenue And they'll pay taxes on their profit.

A few million for staff and salaries and whatnot - those people pay taxes on that.

Not to mention the positive economic impact on local communities from a bunch of rich folks coming to town to play and watch golf.

PGA Tour is a good deal for everyone.

If Shriners lost money....my guess is they probably weren't counting the cash donations they received from the big time individual donors that wrote a check as a thank you for for the prime time pro-am spot, party, hospitality tents and other perks. Those count too.
[/quote]
And how much of those donations go to CEOs performance bonuses etc.
[/quote]

Who really cares? Charities and local businesses get cash that they're not going to get if there isn't a pro event held that week.

If the Board of Directors feel that their CEO deserves a bonus...that's up to them. If you don't like it....buy a share of stock and show up at the annual meeting and speak your piece.

My club hosted a second tier LPGA event for years. Everybody did well. The club's take varied from year-to-year but was generally around 100K. Charities got money and everybody had a good time.

It was one week out of 52 that benefitted a lot more people than it inconvenienced.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='Frankie Lob Wedge' timestamp='1387044760' post='8299743']
The biggest scams going are universities. The research grants from Uncle Sam are largely a waste of money and are in the hundreds of billions. I know a famous school known for medical research where the primary objective is getting grant money.

[/quote]

Most people don't know this but Harvard University finished 2012 with over $30,000,000,000 (yes that's 30 billion dollars) in endowments (or what's also known as retained earnings or profits). They have a management company, called Harvard Management Company (yeah...quite creative) which employs hundreds of people to manage the investments of the university.

In numbers that were reported in mid-June of 2013, Harvard created a return on investment of 11% or over $3,000,000,000. On that, they (the university and the management company) paid ZERO taxes. Here are the salaries of the leadership of the investment company.[list]
[*]Jane L. Mendillo, president and CEO: $5.3 million
[*]Andrew G. Wiltshire, head of alternative assets: $6.6 million
[*]Stephen Blyth, head of public markets: $6.2 million
[*]Alvaro Aguirre-Simunovic, natural resources: $5.3 million
[*]Apoorva K. Koticha, fixed-income global rates: $3.1 million
[*]Marco C. Barrozo, fixed-income global rates: $3.0 million
[/list]
So I'm not disagreeing with the criticism of the PGA or Harvard for that matter but more so the inequity in treatment of any entity that can hide behind the existing tax code.

BTW...Harvard just announced a new campaign to raise $6.5 billion in new endowment. Just YIKES.

[DavePelz4]

BTW...the president of Harvard University had a combined package of salary and benefits of under $900,000 in 2011. As always, it's all about the money.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

Wow so many people are completely gullible to a poorly written one sided article.

First I'll say that no doubt some vendors or top guys are probably gaming the system and being overpaid. However, the article made it sound as if the PGA tour was corrupt or that their charity giving is a fraud. Did everyone forget to look at the actual dollar amount that has been donated. Also factor in the charity marketing that encourages others to donate throughout the year, on top of the fact that taxes are paid in salaries, sales taxes for everyone involved.

It's completely foolish to act as if the PGA tour could simply donate more. There are a lot of expenses involved to put a tournament together.the charity is 16% of revenues, not profits. Does anyone realize that a Fortune 500 company averages 7% annual profit. The PGA tour absolutely trounces any other sporting event in dollars to charity. It's not about the percentage or revenues unless you actually have access to balance sheet and get to pick out the unnecessary expenses. This isn't a car wash put on by your local elks club where majority of revenues can be donated because of low overhead.

So many of these types of stories are written on variety of subjects, but it helps to know who's writing the story. If bob cost as wrote a story on gun safety, I'm guessing it wouldn't be completely unbiased. Eliminating the not for profit status would only take the money going to charity and transfer it to gov. They aren't the most responsible spenders either.