Why Has Hogan Forum Gone Dead?

[lonestar48]

Been working on hitting this way a lot lately since I have a similar build and such. I have The Ben Hogan Collection DVD set and have studied all the YouTube video as well. I have had a few days when it really came together for a few shots but wasn't able to get back to it because I wasn't [i]quite [/i]sure what to focus on. No matter what I was thinking about or what position I was trying to get to, most of it looks similar in video or mirror!
The biggest thing that stands out to me when I watch Hogan is the fluidity of his swing, from start to finish. He isn't stiff or rigid at any point. IMHO, this shows that he was a great feel player who subsequently tried to convey those feels into a book about a technical action (hitting a golf ball). I do honestly believe that he had a revelation, his "secret", about how to hold the club and what to [i]feel [/i]as he took it away and come back through, which allowed him to have the sensation of going at it as hard as he could with his right side or right hand (3 right hands). I also believe that he revealed this in 5 lessons. After reading several posts about this in these forums, I believe that several folks are aware of all of these things but until you think of it, feel it and "dig it out of the dirt" yourself, it will be hard to comprehend.
We need to also remember that he modified his equipment to suit his "secret". How many of us have tried playing with blades bent 6-8* flat with X-stiff shafts? If you have, please share your experiences!
I don't have it all figured out yet by any means but when I have put it together on a few swings it is wonderful...like Tembolo says: "porked!" Not flushed or hit on the screws, hell any swing can produce that from time to time, but [i]crushed..[/i].piercing trajectory that streaks out there and then fades slightly...
Second best feeling in the world!

[legitimategolf]

I love Hogan I just don't like talking about it. Seriously though I study Five Lessons all the time but any conclusions I draw from it are altogether too subjective for me to even talk about. Im impressed with the dedication in this subforum but for me the level of discourse is too esoteric.

[fats]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1387914914' post='8344615']
Could be Love for Hogan really is dying!
[/quote]

Ahhh Tembolo Don't say that my friend. Hogan never dies and trying to figure his damned swing is what keeps us alive abd vital. That one great shot where you say Holly S**T I've got it. True love.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1392960796' post='8713862']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1387914914' post='8344615']
Could be Love for Hogan really is dying!
[/quote]

Ahhh Tembolo Don't say that my friend. Hogan never dies and trying to figure his damned swing is what keeps us alive abd vital. That one great shot where you say Holly S**T I've got it. True love.
[/quote]

Please come back and save us all!

[tembolo1284]

Just read through Power Golf and 5 Lessons again and have so many questions and new things I noticed. Gets me all hot and bothered to go out there and dig it out of the dirt.

[tembolo1284]

Also kind of nice that Hogan was such a club and swing tinkerer.

[ej002]

My dog at my copy of 5L.... I need a new one. I could reread power golf for chits and giggles. I didn't care much for that one the first time through.

[tembolo1284]

Great book power golf. Lovely pictures. Nice to see him talking about other parts of the games too.

[tembolo1284]

Yikes...Hogan forum is totally dead now.

[ej002]

lane holt thread is hopin'

[Jericho]

I've kind of lost interest because everyone here likes to say what he didn't do (when others claim to swing like him), he's gone and cannot confirm anything, and he was a special player not to be duplicated. Why try and figure out a riddle when the author is gone and never specifically wrote the answer?

[AM19]

I think he did write the answer, it's just that people don't work with what he said because when they tried it the first time they didn't look or hit it like hogan, so they decided he must have done something different. I agree that the forum can be really critical though

[Timanator]

Just too busy working on my own swing, but I do watch Hogan everyday on my phone for inspiration.

[Jericho]

[quote name='AM19' timestamp='1398367052' post='9162471']
I think he did write the answer, it's just that people don't work with what he said because when they tried it the first time they didn't look or hit it like hogan, so they decided he must have done something different. I agree that the forum can be really critical though
[/quote]

The only problem with what he wrote is that it was vague enough that it can be interpretted many a ways. My favorite is when anyone under 70 years old, claims to know anything that BH did.

[lonestar48]

It is pretty well known that he kept meticulous notes of his travel expenses, contacts, places to stay, etc. and I believe that he mentioned at the end of 5 Lessons that he also liked to keep notes of his practice sessions. Does anybody know what happened to those? Were they donated to the USGA or Colonial? If not, they must still be with the estate somewhere. Maybe someone here knows somebody who knows somebody...?

[tembolo1284]

Wow that would be quite the collection of notes with how often he practiced!

[ebk]

It would make a great book.

[tembolo1284]

I'd love to read it.

[limcauco]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1393337762' post='8740964']
My dog at my copy of 5L.... I need a new one. I could reread power golf for chits and giggles. I didn't care much for that one the first time through.
[/quote]

For those who didn't notice, there's a Kindle version already of five lessons. They should also do that for Power Golf.

[tembolo1284]

I'm old fashioned and must have the physical book so I can turn pages. LOVE BOOKS!

[ajc57]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1387911312' post='8344373']
Used to be such a great place to discuss the great man's swing and all related stuff. His clothes, his shoes, his clubs, his swing speed, his personality. Everything!

Why has this died? People aren't interested in him or the swing anymore?

Being that it's Christmas how about we start a couple dozen threads about whatever is tickling our pickle with regards to Hogan and his game?
[/quote]

It's dead because the truth hurts. There is no jargon that will get you closer to the holy grail, work, and only work will get you there, why? because Hogan wanted it that way. Believe you me, if Hogan dropped the right knowledge before he passed, every professional out there would be scoring in the 50's - the man said so himself, and I'm inclined to believe him (why wouldn't you?)

People question Ben Hogan's words, because there is no "one" secret, there are only fundamentals, again - he said so himself. Nobody can speak on them unless they can reproduce them. Hard work and "feel" are the only paths to the truth, but nobody wants to hear that. Golf, much like life, is a one of a kind process that only rewards those that are willing to break from the pack, and that involves letting go of the hubris that lives inside of all of us.

[tembolo1284]

I agree with everything you said ajc. I still think we can discuss things while we are working on them though!

[ajc57]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402582561' post='9479857']
I agree with everything you said ajc. I still think we can discuss things while we are working on them though!
[/quote]

I like talking about the feel in the swing myself, though that's not very popular around here, so I don't visit often. The parts of my swing that repeat consistenly do so because I am familiar with what diff swings feel like. When you get comfortable with how your swing feels, your swing becomes integrated and that's when it spreads to the other parts of your game.

From Bobby Jones to Ben Hogan and many in between, they said the answers are in the way your swing feels. If you can identify the feel, only then can you start to put the pieces together. Most people play to a peak and then level off. Some haven't got the patience, others limit themselves by following somone else's theories instead of digging for them on their own. I won't say that lessons can't benefit the beginner get off the ground, but even that can be fools gold because you are limited to what the teacher feels and how far they've come in their own swing. The best you can hope for is that someone will describe what a proper swing feels like to them, and hope like hell you can learn something from their attempt.

I was on this forum at a time when I was stil sorting through the feels but quickly realized people just get upset when you 1) tell them something they don't want to hear and 2) are getting close to what they've always wanted. That's a dangerous combination, so I backed off. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to humble themselves first, and you certainly can't teach or learn arguing about mechanics. That's like trying to learn how to draw a picasso by going back and forth about how to use a paint brush.

[lonestar48]

[quote name='ajc57' timestamp='1402608763' post='9482903']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402582561' post='9479857']
I agree with everything you said ajc. I still think we can discuss things while we are working on them though!
[/quote]

I like talking about the feel in the swing myself, though that's not very popular around here, so I don't visit often. The parts of my swing that repeat consistenly do so because I am familiar with what diff swings feel like. When you get comfortable with how your swing feels, your swing becomes integrated and that's when it spreads to the other parts of your game.

From Bobby Jones to Ben Hogan and many in between, they said the answers are in the way your swing feels. If you can identify the feel, only then can you start to put the pieces together. Most people play to a peak and then level off. Some haven't got the patience, others limit themselves by following somone else's theories instead of digging for them on their own. I won't say that lessons can't benefit the beginner get off the ground, but even that can be fools gold because you are limited to what the teacher feels and how far they've come in their own swing. The best you can hope for is that someone will describe what a proper swing feels like to them, and hope like hell you can learn something from their attempt.

I was on this forum at a time when I was stil sorting through the feels but quickly realized people just get upset when you 1) tell them something they don't want to hear and 2) are getting close to what they've always wanted. That's a dangerous combination, so I backed off. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to humble themselves first, and you certainly can't teach or learn arguing about mechanics. That's like trying to learn how to draw a picasso by going back and forth about how to use a paint brush.
[/quote]
Excellent point. Mechanics and positions are different for everybody because we are all built differently with varying degrees of strength, flexibility, coordination, etc. I get the feeling that Mr. Hogan wrote that book because a lot of people were pressuring him about how he did it. He necessarily went into detail about certain positions but he also discussed certain feels in his swing.
Good golf instruction should be a balance of both!

[dso1986]

because the truth isn't in the words, it's in the ballflight.

zen proverb

if you've tasted a strawberry and you describe it's flavor with all of the words and descriptions known to man, will the person you are talking to know what a strawberry tastes like?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dso1986' timestamp='1405152903' post='9685617']
because the truth isn't in the words, it's in the ballflight.

zen proverb

if you've tasted a strawberry and you describe it's flavor with all of the words and descriptions known to man, will the person you are talking to know what a strawberry tastes like?
[/quote]

He'll know what it tastes like for me.

[tembolo1284]

Nobody loves Hogan anymore?

[MizunoJoe]

Everyone loves Hogan, but get turned off by looking up high too soon. I think you have to get the ground compression right first. I've never seen anyone else go down on the BS and then more down on the DS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nD-I0xqxjIo

[tembolo1284]

sexy swinger of the club that's for sure.

[MizunoJoe]

Couples' swing might be, but Hogan swing transcends the corporal.