Game Golf tracking system (merged)

[FAbb]

It's says "the number of strokes you gain or lose vs a scratch golfer" on the page. I'd assume that means positive is gain and negative is lose. No?

[dcmidnight]

[quote name='FAbb' timestamp='1447513879' post='12598192']
It's says "the number of strokes you gain or lose vs a scratch golfer" on the page. I'd assume that means positive is gain and negative is lose. No?
[/quote]

Thats exactly how I read it. How would a +3.5 rating meaning that I'm losing 3.5 strokes per round on the greens to a scratch golfer? (which would also be wrong IMO)

I read more about the Arccos putting stat - it makes a lot more sense. They derive a handicap for each section of the game and the putting hdcp is based on number of putts per hole, putts/GIR, 1 putts, 2 putts and 3 putts.

It makes more sense - to me, IMO - because either of these systems are just wasting their time trying to measure putts in feet. The GPS just isnt that accurate and isnt meant to be.

[ParHunter]

The Strokes Gained stats are quite sound (just read Every Shot counts) and I prefer that over a home made stat Arccos seems to be using. The problem is with the placement of the pin. I normally drag the pin around to where I thought it was. I have also noticed that they now show the putt distance (in yards Do'h)

Plus figures do indeed mean you loose strokes (or see it as you have x number of strokes more than a scratch golfer).

What I would like to see is different baselines. I would like to see where I am losing strokes compared to a 10 handicap as that is more realistic for me.

[ParHunter]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1447535683' post='12599096']
[quote name='FAbb' timestamp='1447513879' post='12598192']
It's says "the number of strokes you gain or lose vs a scratch golfer" on the page. I'd assume that means positive is gain and negative is lose. No?
[/quote]

Thats exactly how I read it. How would a +3.5 rating meaning that I'm losing 3.5 strokes per round on the greens to a scratch golfer? (which would also be wrong IMO)

I read more about the Arccos putting stat - it makes a lot more sense. They derive a handicap for each section of the game and the putting hdcp is based on number of putts per hole, putts/GIR, 1 putts, 2 putts and 3 putts.

It makes more sense - to me, IMO - because either of these systems are just wasting their time trying to measure putts in feet. The GPS just isnt that accurate and isnt meant to be.
[/quote]

The advantage of Strokes Gained is that clearly separates the different categories. Arccos' putting handicap is not independent of your approach and short game. If you hit it close or chip it close you will have a lot of one putts but that doesn't mean your putting was nessesarily that good!

[FAbb]

I get why strokes gained is a better metric. I'm just not sold on the potential accuracy, and their implementation.

[dcmidnight]

There is no accuracy, thats my point. GG now claims a 5 foot GPS accuracy - which seems really, really low to me for such a small commercial-grade unit. They used to claim 3 yards so lets assume I will buy that they've gotten this down to 2 yards or 6 feet. Thats just not accurate enough. That means that a 6 foot putt could either be 0 feet or 12 feet?

And now all of their putts are rounded off to yards? Really?

I stand by my assertion that manually entering each putt in feet would have been a *much* easier and much more accurate solution. They way they are currently doing it might make sense in theory but in practice it just does not, honestly it seems like kind of a mess right now.

[Smilesy]

I'm also pretty disappointed with this "update". I think it would be a big improvement if you could get the stats broken down further, eg. the approach stats broken into the different distances and lie types. They obviously have this data if they are giving recommendations on those types. This would really help in the short game area as well. If you could see sand shots or shots with 20m that would really help.
I get what people mean about the putting stats as well, but I think that is something that will never really improve.

As for the GPS accuracy, anything better than accurate to <3.5m is doubtful. People have unrealistic expectations of the accuracy of GPS, most phones get around 8m accuracy, and a specific handheld GPS is around 5m. If you want better than that you need to use very high end (+$10k) units or differential GPS. That means for things like putting where you really want to know accuracy down to the foot it's never going to be great.

[ParHunter]

I got some info from their support regarding Strokes Gained:

Regarding your inquiry about strokes gained, we plan on adding some features/filters and continuing to expand. This first iteration is designed for simplicity, but we are listening to user feedback as we expand. For any requests, please view the following article from the user forum: [url="http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/10706070-strokes-gained-overview-feature-improvements"]http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/10706070-strokes-gained-overview-feature-improvements[/url]

[larrybud]

As a programmer, I'm dying. They have so much data.... All they have to do is mimic the pga tour stats section!!!

[TCMuc]

Not trying to defend GameGolf, just a thought:

I could imagine that the whole strokes-gained system is copyrighted, which means GG would have to pay license fees in order to be able to use and show the statistics in their system. In that case it would be at least understandable why they chose to first roll out a limited version, wait for feedback to see what kind of stats get requested most and then introduce these stats at a later point.

I don't know that's really the case, but at least it sounds plausible and I think there must be an important reason they didn't include more stats into the first release, mostly for two reasons:

a) they already do calculate the strokes-gained stats on a more detailed level, as can be seen by the "smart tips" you get
b) they already have the filtering options in place for other stats; I'm not a programmer, but I guess it shouldn't be too hard to implement the filters you get e.g. in the approach section in the strokes-gained section as well...


Just one more thing regarding the flag position: I've heard GameGolf is using the gyroscope inside the belt clip to get the flag location: the device notices when you bend over to get the ball out of the cup and then puts the flag to that location (if you bend over several times on a green, it's probably the location where you last bent over). Anyone heard of that, too?

[larrybud]

[quote name='Smilesy' timestamp='1447629982' post='12602920']
I'm also pretty disappointed with this "update". I think it would be a big improvement if you could get the stats broken down further, eg. the approach stats broken into the different distances and lie types.
[/quote]

What distances do you want? The approach stats can be broken down into distance and/or club type.

[larrybud]

[quote name='TCMuc' timestamp='1447844630' post='12614268']

Just one more thing regarding the flag position: I've heard GameGolf is using the gyroscope inside the belt clip to get the flag location: the device notices when you bend over to get the ball out of the cup and then puts the flag to that location (if you bend over several times on a green, it's probably the location where you last bent over). Anyone heard of that, too?
[/quote]

Where do you get that from? GG specifically says they cannot detect the flag, and that they place it 2-3 feet from the last tagged location as a default.

[Buddha]

I understand that this is the first iteration of StrokesGained on GameGolf, but add me to the underwhelmed/disappointed camp.

http://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/763930/0f87964f071e2bb6101d9160f34b7b81

Really, the tip for Approach shots is to work on 250+ from the rough? When I am there, it is from a duff off the tee. I lose 6.72 strokes on approach shots, and the tip they give me is to gain .81 strokes. Ummm k. I get that the tips have to come from somewhere, and I am sure they have their method as to how to improve in an area, but that recommendation just seems insane.

That said, I look forward to see what comes in the future.

[ParHunter]

One thing I wonder is how or if penalties are taken into consideration. I was quite surprised to see that I only lose about 2 strokes on my drive but does that take the 3-off the tee into account?

I would also like to see more details on e.g. why I am losing so many strokes on my short game (a part where I actually think that I am better than my peers).
They will have that information, otherwise they couldn't create the recommendations (for me it is 2 shots alone from within 25 yards when in the rough)

[ParHunter]

And I can only recommend you add your ideas's to the SG ideas thread at GameGolf: [url="http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/10706070-strokes-gained-overview-feature-improvements"]http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests[/url]
and vote for it.

[TCMuc]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1447850674' post='12614424']
Where do you get that from? GG specifically says they cannot detect the flag, and that they place it 2-3 feet from the last tagged location as a default.
[/quote]

Someone on the Golf Monthly said it, I didn't know if this was true or not, that's why I asked. Where on the GG page did you find the information regarding the 2-3 feet from the last tagged location?

[quote name='Buddha' timestamp='1447853470' post='12614536']I lose 6.72 strokes on approach shots, and the tip they give me is to gain .81 strokes. Ummm k.
[/quote]

That is actually hilarious!

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1447866506' post='12615394']
One thing I wonder is how or if penalties are taken into consideration. I was quite surprised to see that I only lose about 2 strokes on my drive but does that take the 3-off the tee into account?
[/quote]

Probably not. Recently I've been losing a ball off the tee in almost every round, which would make for 2 lost shots vs. a scratch player alone. Plus my driving has been generally poor and short.
Still GG claims I'm losing only 3,49 shots with my driving and is trying to tell me driving is actually the strongest part of my game...

[ParHunter]

[quote name='TCMuc' timestamp='1447875078' post='12616022']
Probably not. Recently I've been losing a ball off the tee in almost every round, which would make for 2 lost shots vs. a scratch player alone. Plus my driving has been generally poor and short.
Still GG claims I'm losing only 3,49 shots with my driving and is trying to tell me driving is actually the strongest part of my game...
[/quote]
Your second drive is always the best ;-) That is the problem with GameGolf (or any other system for that matter), they only see the second good drive in the middle of the fairway and not the one that killed a cow on the adjacent field.

[TCMuc]

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1447922485' post='12618604']
Your second drive is always the best ;-) That is the problem with GameGolf (or any other system for that matter), they only see the second good drive in the middle of the fairway and not the one that killed a cow on the adjacent field.
[/quote]

I don't know if it has changed since the introduction of strokes-gained, but GameGolf used to ignore the second tee shot... According to their homepage "a shot is considered "Off the Tee" if it is your first shot on a Par 4 or Par 5 hole". I've had several occasions where I hit my first tee shot OoB, hit another one down the fairway only to have the first tee shot turn up in my "off the tee" statistics with a distance of 0 meters...

@larrybud

Update to the hole location question: I found the section on the GG knowledge base where they say the hole location is placed within 2 feet of the last putt. However, that information seems to be dated, since in the same section they claim they don't need to determine the exact hole location "as we do not provide putting stats in feet", which is no longer true since the introduction of the strokes-gained feature.

So I posted a question how the new system to determine the flag location works (and also pointed out it seem so be flawed). I will keep you updated as soon as I get a reply.

[ParHunter]

[quote name='TCMuc' timestamp='1447924459' post='12618622']
[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1447922485' post='12618604']
Your second drive is always the best ;-) That is the problem with GameGolf (or any other system for that matter), they only see the second good drive in the middle of the fairway and not the one that killed a cow on the adjacent field.
[/quote]

I don't know if it has changed since the introduction of strokes-gained, but GameGolf used to ignore the second tee shot... According to their homepage "a shot is considered "Off the Tee" if it is your first shot on a Par 4 or Par 5 hole". I've had several occasions where I hit my first tee shot OoB, hit another one down the fairway only to have the first tee shot turn up in my "off the tee" statistics with a distance of 0 meters...

@larrybud

[/quote]
See I enter that differently. If I have a three of the tee I just hit another drive and later add two penalty strokes on the drive. If I remember correctly the drives do not turn up as FIR even when they are on the fairway (which is the correct behaviour IMHO).

[BrooklynGolfer]

Tried the app for the 1st time yesterday. Had to edit a few shots here and there, but have to say, I'm very impressed with the free app. Managed to track my entire round with only minimal editing. The only real problem is that when you tag your club, you have to stand still on the tee box for 5-10 seconds in order for it to map exactly where you are.
I'm sold on game golf (even though it was free )

[larrybud]

[quote name='TCMuc' timestamp='1447875078' post='12616022']
[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1447850674' post='12614424']
Where do you get that from? GG specifically says they cannot detect the flag, and that they place it 2-3 feet from the last tagged location as a default.
[/quote]

Someone on the Golf Monthly said it, I didn't know if this was true or not, that's why I asked. Where on the GG page did you find the information regarding the 2-3 feet from the last tagged location?
[/quote]
https://gamegolf.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1447662-how-does-it-know-where-the-hole-is-

[cradd10]

is there a practice mode with Game Golf? I want to be able to hit 10-15 shots with a single club, then check the distance(s) on that particular club. Can that be done?

[ParHunter]

[quote name='cradd10' timestamp='1448043586' post='12624686']
is there a practice mode with Game Golf? I want to be able to hit 10-15 shots with a single club, then check the distance(s) on that particular club. Can that be done?
[/quote]

No not really, just use a GPS app for that (not a golf one but one where you can measure distance between two points)

[TCMuc]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1448024527' post='12623326']
[quote name='TCMuc' timestamp='1447875078' post='12616022']
[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1447850674' post='12614424']
Where do you get that from? GG specifically says they cannot detect the flag, and that they place it 2-3 feet from the last tagged location as a default.
[/quote]

Someone on the Golf Monthly said it, I didn't know if this was true or not, that's why I asked. Where on the GG page did you find the information regarding the 2-3 feet from the last tagged location?
[/quote]
[url="https://gamegolf.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1447662-how-does-it-know-where-the-hole-is-"]https://gamegolf.des...re-the-hole-is-[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks, found it (see my post #1632). Like I wrote there, the information is dated, since in that section GG is claiming they don't need to figure out the exact location of the flag because they don't measure putting distances, which is no longer the case after they introduced the strokes-gained stats.
I haven't hear back from them about how they determine the flag location now, but will let you know once I know more.

[phil75070]

For those of you who use the system consistently, how many rounds of data do you have? When have you had enough rounds to pin down your club distances, identify your weak areas and strengths and put the system aside? Or do you? I have used this for the last 78 rounds of golf I have played and I am not sure there is more insight to gain from it. I know you can filter it down to the last "X" number of rounds but how is that really useful if you can't, for example, compare the last "X" rounds to the previous set of "X rounds? Your thoughts?

[ParHunter]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1448114524' post='12627534']
For those of you who use the system consistently, how many rounds of data do you have? When have you had enough rounds to pin down your club distances, identify your weak areas and strengths and put the system aside? Or do you? I have used this for the last 78 rounds of golf I have played and I am not sure there is more insight to gain from it. I know you can filter it down to the last "X" number of rounds but how is that really useful if you can't, for example, compare the last "X" rounds to the previous set of "X rounds? Your thoughts?
[/quote]

I think what is missing right now is to view the stats over time. How is your GIR stat going, Are you improving? The whole thing about keeping starts is a) to analyse where you need to improve (gg is very useful here) and b) monitor your improvements over time. GG can't do that at the moment. I have actually created a spread sheet to keep track of the stats GG reports so that I can see e.g. whether my approach shots from 100-125 years improve.

[TCMuc]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1448114524' post='12627534']
For those of you who use the system consistently, how many rounds of data do you have? When have you had enough rounds to pin down your club distances, identify your weak areas and strengths and put the system aside? Or do you? I have used this for the last 78 rounds of golf I have played and I am not sure there is more insight to gain from it. I know you can filter it down to the last "X" number of rounds but how is that really useful if you can't, for example, compare the last "X" rounds to the previous set of "X rounds? Your thoughts?
[/quote]

Once you have enough data to determine the status quo of your game, identify the areas that need work. Then set goals that you can monitor via the stats, e.g. if you need to improve your approach game, set yourself a GIR target. A good starting point to finding realistic targets is the "compare" section, which shows you your stats vs. the stats of players of with a certain average score.. Say your average score is 85, and you want to get to an average score of 80. Just look what the GIR percentage is for a player with that average score, then try getting your stats down to that point.

[Dbogey]

I'm thinking about getting GG is it worth the extra $ to get the new live version?

[ParHunter]

[quote name='Dbogey' timestamp='1448137170' post='12628614']
I'm thinking about getting GG is it worth the extra $ to get the new live version?
[/quote]
It depends, if you play a lot of competitions then no as you can't use the live feature for competitions or when you post the round for handicap purpose. I would like to be able to upload the round via my phone after the round (especially when you travel) but for me it wasn't worth upgrading just for that.

[kaylor3435]

hello all, I have game golf and I heard somewhere that if you have game golf, that you could get game golf live at a discounted rate, does anyone know if this is true?