Shot shaping by changing grip?

I may not understand everything completely but I think I have a fair understanding of how club face angle and swing path causes draws and fades in combination with pulls and pushes.

What I am wondering is what the general consensus is regarding changing the swing path to shape the shots (produce left and right spin to get draws and fades) vs just changing to a stronger/weaker grip and aiming left or right. It would seem to me that you could keep the swing the same but shape the shots by just making the grip stronger/weaker in combination with aiming right or left. What are the reasons one would want to also change the swing path, given how hard it is to ingrain new movement patterns?

I get it if you have an out-to-in swing plane, then you would have to use an exessively strong grip to close the face and also aim right to get straight shots (I think). Does it depend on whether the player is stuck with an out-to-in or in-to-out swing plane and can't or is unwilling to change that?

This leads me to a related thought. Instead of making the grip stronger, couldn't you just aim with the face a bit closed at address. I mean, isn't that what the strong grip results in anyway? Is it that it's easier to fine-tune the strengthness at the grip rather than at the club face, or is it that you want to see the club face pointing towards the target at address?

Regards

Olle

So many variables. Find what works for you on a consistent basis.

Do not change grip for different shots. The easiest way is to do it via ball position. Changing your grip brings even more variables into play....and the balls pretty much starts where the clubface is pointed. Let's say you take a strong grip to hit a draw....good chance you either hit a pull hook which is gonna go bye bye..or your body may try to hold off the face and flip at the last second and hit a snap hook....or you hold off too much and hit a block/cut.

With ball position......play the ball back an inch or two in the stance and make a normal swing....the ball will draw or at worst be a slight push. It may not draw as much but the big misses are pretty much out of play

Don’t change grip, rather try changing grip pressures. Increase trail hand ring finger pressure for a fade and increase trail hand middle finger for a draw. Path stays the same relative to the body. Aim the baseline where the ball should start.

Ferrispgm, what do you mean with "..and the balls pretty much starts where the clubface is pointed"? I know it does! And I do want it to start more right if I am intending to create a draw for example.

Are you saying that the grip change is harder to control, and you risk bigger effect than you intended?

With the ball position, am I right to assume that you try to take advantage of the face being relatively speaking straighter through-out the impact than the club path, so that if you hit the ball earlier the face is relatively straight but the club path is still coming slightly in-to-out? Or is that completely wrong?

I don't really see how the grip change introduces more variables though. I do realize that the mind will probably be aware of the closed club face and might try to compensate. And also that aiming right for a draw might cause you to go more over the top to compensate. But with the changed ball position, aren't you introducing more variables in that now you have to modify the swing to hit the ball since it's not in the original position, come down earlier or something like that?

Are you simply less likely to do compensating movements when changing ball position?

One disadvantage I realized with changing the grip strength though, is that the dynamic loft would get lower with a draw, and higher with a fade.

It's like this... the grip has like half inch in either direction of change to produce anything from overly closed face to overly open. Now try changing grip consistently to product a tiny draw. The room for error is tiny. With hundreds of hours of practice you will still make mistakes. Now move ball forward and back, you have about 24 or more inches to play. The room for error is much greater. However moving ball may also make your low point shift as you look at the ball.

Getting the ball moving through swing path may be even more room for error if you build your swing around a variable swing plane in the moment shot by shot. However this is probably pretty debatable. Considering a rigid one path ingrained swing may be argued to produce more consistent results.

I think a true master of this game knows the subtleties of all 3 of these methods and uses them as needed, and in conjunction with each other.

> @OlleEriksson said:

> **I get it if you have an out-to-in swing plane, then you would have to use an exessively strong grip to close the face and also aim right to get straight shots **

> This leads me to a related thought. Instead of making the grip stronger, couldn't you just aim with the face a bit closed at address. I mean, isn't that what the strong grip results in anyway? Is it that it's easier to fine-tune the strengthness at the grip rather than at the club face, or is it that you want to see the club face pointing towards the target at address?

Be careful with this. If your swing isn't matched up using too strong of a grip can actually cause you to present with an ultra steep downswing and an open face if you don't have the physical ability to rotate through excessively. You could aim the face closed at address, but why would you? If you want to play a draw your start line should begin to the right of your intended target or else you're looking at demoralizing pull hook. Find your normal grip, be it weak, strong, or neutral, and then try to shape the easy way. Ball position slightly forward (fade) or back, club face aimed at intended target and body aimed at intended start line and swing down the body line.

one more vote for no, changing grip is not a good idea if you want to produce a consistent ball flight.

In order to work the ball both directions with a normal ballflight, we are talking about a 4* or less difference in face angle at impact from square. When you change your grip, you change it way more than 4* i am sure, as that is barely even noticeable to the naked eye. This means that you will have to adapt to the grip change with something else during the swing in order to get it to go where you want. In short, there are much better ways to work the ball with consistency.

That doesn't even begin to get in to the fact that your grip is the only contact you have with the club or ball. Changing grip from shot to shot will change your feel, and most likely result in some severe inconsistency, as again, we are talking about a couple degrees in face angle. Too small to manipulate with your hands at high speed.

As others have said try moving ball position forward/back in your swing arc.

Here's another one for the visual type.

- Draw: Finish your swing with the clubhead below your hands. if you release the club to hit a draw, the club will wrap around your back and finish below your hands.

- Fade: Finish your swing with the clubhead above your hands. This will promote more of a "hold off" move through impact to create a fade.

What I do to get draw is line up right of target then aim 20 yards right of where I am lined up. Same with fade, however with fade I usually tee it slightly higher and further forward 2 inches, then lineup and aim 5 yards left of where I am lined up. I get a pretty consistent 5 yard fade.

> @N0rs3man said:

> What I do to get draw is line up right of target then aim 20 yards right of where I am lined up. Same with fade, however with fade I usually tee it slightly higher and further forward 2 inches, then lineup and aim 5 yards left of where I am lined up. I get a pretty consistent 5 yard fade.

Are you saying for draw is " line up" club face right of target then "aim" swing path 20 yards right of club face?

To draw/fade it's as simple as adjusting the alignment/path via setup. After that, it's all in the takeaway that determines whether I'm coming in from the inside or outside.

The ONLY time I manipulate the face is in the short game or when I'm adjusting where I want the ball to start at impact. Sometimes I want more curve sometimes less. You can draw a ball with an open face.

Thanks a lot for the explanations. You make a convincing case. :)

> @OlleEriksson said:

> I may not understand everything completely but I think I have a fair understanding of how club face angle and swing path causes draws and fades in combination with pulls and pushes.

>

> What I am wondering is what the general consensus is regarding changing the swing path to shape the shots (produce left and right spin to get draws and fades) vs just changing to a stronger/weaker grip and aiming left or right. It would seem to me that you could keep the swing the same but shape the shots by just making the grip stronger/weaker in combination with aiming right or left. What are the reasons one would want to also change the swing path, given how hard it is to ingrain new movement patterns?

>

> I get it if you have an out-to-in swing plane, then you would have to use an exessively strong grip to close the face and also aim right to get straight shots (I think). Does it depend on whether the player is stuck with an out-to-in or in-to-out swing plane and can't or is unwilling to change that?

>

> This leads me to a related thought. Instead of making the grip stronger, couldn't you just aim with the face a bit closed at address. I mean, isn't that what the strong grip results in anyway? Is it that it's easier to fine-tune the strengthness at the grip rather than at the club face, or is it that you want to see the club face pointing towards the target at address?

>

> Regards

> Olle

Club path is related to angle of attack. If approach is from outside-to-in angle of attack is going to be steep compared to in-to-out which is going be more shallow. If something moves down attack is going to steepen, and if it moves up it is going to shallow. While strengthening the left hand (for right handed golfers) by putting the hand more on top of the grip can lead to a closed clubface, and weakening it can lead to an open club face it will not change the quality of contact. Likewise the right hand can have an effect on loft at impact (right hand underneath the club can lower ball flight, and right hand on top can make ball flight higher) it will not alter other areas of the swing.

Strong grips fit well with swings that use lots of body rotation, and neutral to weaker grips work well with arm active swings.

> @Nickc said:

> > @N0rs3man said:

> > What I do to get draw is line up right of target then aim 20 yards right of where I am lined up. Same with fade, however with fade I usually tee it slightly higher and further forward 2 inches, then lineup and aim 5 yards left of where I am lined up. I get a pretty consistent 5 yard fade.

>

> Are you saying for draw is " line up" club face right of target then "aim" swing path 20 yards right of club face?

When I say line up I mean use the feet to form target line then aim/look 20 yards right of that target line. 20 yards might give you a hook, I do 5 yards for a slight draw, but it takes a little practice so 20 yards gets the ball moving right to left pretty good.

> @OlleEriksson said:

> I may not understand everything completely but I think I have a fair understanding of how club face angle and swing path causes draws and fades in combination with pulls and pushes.

>

> What I am wondering is what the general consensus is regarding changing the swing path to shape the shots (produce left and right spin to get draws and fades) vs just changing to a stronger/weaker grip and aiming left or right. It would seem to me that you could keep the swing the same but shape the shots by just making the grip stronger/weaker in combination with aiming right or left. What are the reasons one would want to also change the swing path, given how hard it is to ingrain new movement patterns?

>

> I get it if you have an out-to-in swing plane, then you would have to use an exessively strong grip to close the face and also aim right to get straight shots (I think). Does it depend on whether the player is stuck with an out-to-in or in-to-out swing plane and can't or is unwilling to change that?

>

> This leads me to a related thought. Instead of making the grip stronger, couldn't you just aim with the face a bit closed at address. I mean, isn't that what the strong grip results in anyway? Is it that it's easier to fine-tune the strengthness at the grip rather than at the club face, or is it that you want to see the club face pointing towards the target at address?

>

> Regards

> Olle

Not sure I understand what you suggest but the easiest way is to align your body to get the swing path where you want, aim the club face and take normal grip + setup and just produce your normal swing.