700 yard par 5s and 600 yard par 4s

[MaddMaxx]

Two 3 woods to eagle a 667 yard par 5, from not even one of the longest hitters, is it just a matter of time?

[SadTrombone]

Yep. Because if you roll the ball back, people will quit playing. Or so I've read...

[dlygrisse]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

[Strömsborg]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

 

The second shot was still 300 yards carry, with a cut 3-wood...

[jslane57]

If you just walk a little faster you can still play in less than 4 hours!

[PostandGhost]

Yep. Because if you roll the ball back, people will quit playing. Or so I've read...

 

Presently, everyone is trying to roll the ball forward and people still quit playing.

[JaNelson38]

Two 3 woods to eagle a 667 yard par 5, from not even one of the longest hitters, is it just a matter of time?

 

It's not just about length.

 

JT made that 3 wood stick because the green was soft enough to let him. No way in hell he tries that shot to a firm green where it will just bounce like a rocket off of it.

 

Course and weather conditions have more to do with professional scoring than a number on a yardage book.

[JaNelson38]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

 

The second shot was still 300 yards carry, with a cut 3-wood...

 

No it wasn't. It was 299 to the pin. It didn't carry to the flag. It bounced just on the front of the fringe and rolled out.

[mjen43]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

 

The second shot was still 300 yards carry, with a cut 3-wood...

 

No it wasn't. It was 299 to the pin. It didn't carry to the flag.

 

Also, the fact it was a cut makes no difference. Trackman has proven we can optimize launch conditions with both left or right spin axes.

[widow-maker]

Koepka hit a 369 yard 3 wood off 18 tee and that was a straight shot not cutting anything. Wind, firm... that's still a long ways. One thing is for sure... the pros didn't have a problem with 7800 yards.

[dlygrisse]

Koepka hit a 369 yard 3 wood off 18 tee and that was a straight shot not cutting anything. Wind, firm... that's still a long ways. One thing is for sure... the pros didn't have a problem with 7800 yards.

 

Correct. But 369 3 wood is NOT normal even for long hitting pros. The conditions allowed it. Added probably 75 yards.

[mjen43]

Koepka hit a 369 yard 3 wood off 18 tee and that was a straight shot not cutting anything. Wind, firm... that's still a long ways. One thing is for sure... the pros didn't have a problem with 7800 yards.

 

Correct. But 369 3 wood is NOT normal even for long hitting pros. The conditions allowed it. Added probably 75 yards.

 

 

Yep. Here is the trackman read out of Koepka hitting a driver. That translates to a 297 yard carry. I can assure his 3 wood is not carrying farther than his driver so one could expect his 3 wood carry to be around 280ish. He is just not going to hit a 3 wood 369 without a multitude of outside factors working in his favor.

[shortstop20]

It's all conditions. I was at the course on Thursday and there are plenty of holes where there are some major assists by the land.

 

Then there's the wind of course.

[Strömsborg]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

 

The second shot was still 300 yards carry, with a cut 3-wood...

 

No it wasn't. It was 299 to the pin. It didn't carry to the flag. It bounced just on the front of the fringe and rolled out.

 

I'd bet my left pinky that it was 310 to the flag. I could be wrong.

[Z1ggy16]

That 380 drive from Koepka was downwind and downhill. Not taking away from a total bomb, but it was probably something like 260-270 carry with no wind or elevation adjustments, then the rest of the yards comes from those other factors.

 

Even for pro's, a links style par 5 that's 700 yards still isn't even a huge challenge to make birdie, unless there's a massive head wind. Assume the average guy drives it 290 or so, then takes a 3w about 265-270, he's looking at a 8 or 9 iron into the green, which is the same outcome in many situations on the longer par 4's for these guys now. IF you really want to make it challenging and eliminate the "bomb's away" approach, make par 5's have multiple dog legs or put water on both sides of the fairway where the typical 3w might land. Otherwise..... just accept guys are getting better at golf quicker than the community can react.

 

Guys won't be getting much longer in the coming years anyway as COR and other factors that affect distance are pretty much at the limit by all OEM's. The only way balls will go further is by swinging faster, which will come from longer shafts or by golfers physically generating more speed (or if the rules of golf change... doubt that). Don't think we'll see too many 48'' shafts on the tee box anytime soon, so a yard or two every year won't impact much.

[MtlJeff]

If the USGA wants people to stop training to hit it further and further, making holes and courses longer is not the solution.

 

It's like putting all food in the world on 10 foot shelves and then complaining in 25yrs that people are jumping higher and acting shocked as to how this could have happened

[Ashley Schaeffer]

If the USGA wants people to stop training to hit it further and further, making holes and courses longer is not the solution.

 

It's like putting all food in the world on 10 foot shelves and then complaining in 25yrs that people are jumping higher and acting shocked as to how this could have happened

 

I've read this analogy before (maybe from you), but it doesn't make it less 100% spot on.

 

[Sean2]

Depends on the lay of the land. You need to remember that while Fox was reporting on these feats of strength that not all was as it seems. For example when you measure a hole you go down the fairway not as the crow flies, being that there were no trees cutting the corner was just a matter of carrying a bunker in the 275-290 range, not a big deal for most of the field especially down wind. Then the ball caught a down slope and was propelled 50 more yards down a firm fairway.

 

So in reality if you had the balls to take the agressive line and pull off the carry you shortened the hole quite a bit. Some of the slopes on those fairways will create substantial roll out even if the ball is just dropped, let alone launched from a Titanium driver.

 

I saw JT also hit driver with a carry of 272. It's not like these guys hit their 3-woods that far all the time.

[MtlJeff]

If the USGA wants people to stop training to hit it further and further, making holes and courses longer is not the solution.

 

It's like putting all food in the world on 10 foot shelves and then complaining in 25yrs that people are jumping higher and acting shocked as to how this could have happened

 

I've read this analogy before (maybe from you), but it doesn't make it less 100% spot on.

 

 

Probably from me lol, I've used it before here!

[Slackattack]

Watch the same guys play Pebble on a cool, damp day in February. I guarantee that you will not see a 369 yard fairway wood then.

[cardoza]

Two 3 woods to eagle a 667 yard par 5, from not even one of the longest hitters, is it just a matter of time?

 

JT is 11th in driving distance, tied with Bubba Watson. Not sure where you're getting the thought that he isn't one of the longest hitters. Dude can move it.

[KrazyTrain18]

Lengthening and widening courses to accommodate big hitters simply is the wrong way to go about testing the best players in the game. Look at Olympic Club in 2012 and Merion in 2013. They each played 7170 yards and 6800 yards respectively and each produced exceptional US Opens with very difficult scoring conditions even in the rain at Olympic.

[jsp9999]

if usga truly wants to challenge tour pros by length, they should roll out 10K course. even that, maybe not. based on Erin hill condition, top scores could still manage to get -5 even @10K length. modern day golf equipments including balls are just too good, player conditions are better.

[SadTrombone]

Lengthening and widening courses to accommodate big hitters simply is the wrong way to go about testing the best players in the game. Look at Olympic Club in 2012 and Merion in 2013. They each played 7170 yards and 6800 yards respectively and each produced exceptional US Opens with very difficult scoring conditions even in the rain at Olympic.

 

Merion was pretty wet also. That was a fun open minus the wicker basket thing. I know many loved it, I just wasn't one of the many.