How much do you use your private golf club for business?

[Schley]

Numerous friends of mine justify their club because of entertaining clients or new business development.

1. do you use it for business?

2. does your company pay or subsidize your dues/guest fees?

3. has it helped?

4. do you think a more prestigious club helps you with your business development?

5. how many rounds a year are for business purposes?

 

Should be an interesting discussion.

[az2au]

Depends on which one. Work pays for two of the clubs we belong to (kinda, we pay taxes on those dues), one of my wife and one for me. We use those quite a bit. One of them hosts the Schwab Cup and we generally get pro-am spots and a suite there for clients. I've hosted maybe 30 people there as well. The other one I have to be more careful with because it is too hard for most of my clients. We mostly host co-workers and some golf fanatic clients there. It is a desert course and that automatically freaks people out.

 

The other club I belong to in the area that you've played at is one I've belonged to for a long time and I rarely host anyone work related there that isn't a very serious golfer because it is by far the hardest and one of the most difficult in the state. Work has nothing to do with that one at all but I can certainly expense client rounds there. The last one I did was with one of our other partners and one of his clients. The client was a "serious golfer" in town for a few days. The previous day the other partner had played with him at a local resort course where he shot around 80. Both of them were well above 90 at my club. I'm not sure the client broke 100. That's why I don't do it, most people aren't used to playing courses that challenging. It is by far my favorite of the courses I belong to however and it really isn't even remotely close.

 

Realized that I forgot to answer your questions:

1. Covered

2. Covered

3. Not really sure about whether it has helped or not but the clients I've host definitely appreciate it and I've received many nice bottles of bourbon for hosting :)

4. I don't know. The people that really know golf are really into playing the clubs I belong to. Something like Augusta, Pine Valley or Cypress might but not sure that anything below that really matters to most people. I'm more about earning the trust first and then doing nice things for people that have been good to me.

5. Less than 20

[raynorfan1]

I'll echo the above. Very little "classic" business use. To answer specifically:

 

1. I don't intentionally use it for business. "Business" happens around the edges. I certainly get some business benefit (introductions etc.) out of the relationships that I've built over the years, but that's a very secondary motivation. I don't think I've ever used it as a place to "close" a deal or entertain a prospect.

2. With the IRS clamping down on business entertainment expenses, you just don't see it as much any more. It's prohibitively expensive for a company to directly pay dues as opposed to just increasing somebody's salary to cover the cost. I have occasionally expensed meals or guest fees when there was an explicit business element, but it's very rare.

3. Building relationships always helps. But I wouldn't say that dangling a round of golf ever made a difference in any real transaction.

4. No. If I were a member of Augusta/Pine Valley/Cypress Point...I can't think of a single time when that would have made a material difference in a deal.

5. Again...depends on your definition. To close a deal? Very few. But I'll often seek out a game with members who I want to touch base with on a business topic or two.

[Phreddy]

About 20% for business. I generally turn off the cell phone, go for a walk and play with the express intent of leaving business behind.

[Carson33]

May 5, 2019 12:07pm #1

Numerous friends of mine justify their club because of entertaining clients or new business development.

1. do you use it for business? - Yes! All of the time. Of course, I play my normal rounds, but usually take clients out for golf at least one day a week.

2. does your company pay or subsidize your dues/guest fees? - Yes, my company covers any business expenses used at the club.

3. has it helped? - YES! I have easily paid for my membership 1000 times over. Actually picked up one of my best clients by randomly hitting balls one day during lunch. One conversation on the range has resulted in one recurring and LARGE client. This does not take into account the number of relationships that I have developed over the years of spending time with people on the course.

4. do you think a more prestigious club helps you with your business development? Of course. If you were to ask a CEO or COO to play golf, they would want to go to a "nice" place.

5. how many rounds a year are for business purposes? 50-60 rounds of taking multiple clients.

 

Should be an interesting discussion.

[oneunderbogey]

Carson what type of business? You can be general but I'm curious.

 

I am in on the fringes category

[Oliver Klozoff]

1. I probably should. My club is mid-tier, so there's nothing special about it. My biggest issue is I don't enjoy playing with bad golfers. So bringing a client with a cap over 8 doesn't do it for me.

2. I am an owner in a business. And other than guest fees and their food I can't expense anything. Once the IRS removed the ability to expenses monthly dues/initiation fees, I think clubs took a hit. I would use it for business a ton if I could write off my monthly dues.

3. I think a high-end club would help. But other than top 5-10 courses in your state, I don't see much coming from it other than hoping for reciprocity at their clubs.

4. See above.

5. Maybe 5 rounds. If I was at a higher-end club it would be way more.

 

I think a special club can open up doors for business, and for great reciprocity. But there's a huge price to pay to get that. Initiations at nicest DC area courses are $80K-$100K. Monthlies are $1K. The $200+ guest fees + food + caddies + drinks = $1500/day whenever I did this. Say that's 30x per year. So $45K in guest charges over a year. I can make that up in 2 deals. But my business partners don't see it that way.

[ryder2015]

1. do you use it for business?

yes. I take clients probably 3 times a month

2. does your company pay or subsidize your dues/guest fees?

only guest fees and meals associated with it.

3. has it helped?

I think so. When can you actually get 4 hours of face time with a client. Helps build a relationship for sure.

4. do you think a more prestigious club helps you with your business development?

That's a hard one that I am struggling with now. I just joined one of the nicest clubs in my area but I did it for my family/personal use. Is the perception of clients that I am too successful if I take them there? I am trying to figure that out now and may keep the mid level club just for business.

5. how many rounds a year are for business purposes?

Probably 15-20.

 

[MaxBuck]

1. do you use it for business? NOT REALLY

2. does your company pay or subsidize your dues/guest fees? NO; none of my employers has

3. has it helped? HASN'T HURT; probably has helped me with a couple of clients

4. do you think a more prestigious club helps you with your business development? NOT ESPECIALLY in my experience; had a salesman call on me and offer to take me to a top-25 club that I'd seldom played, but I gave the business to a guy who wasn't a golfer

5. how many rounds a year are for business purposes? MAYBE 5; usually away from home

[Petethreeput]

1. No, not expressly. I never go to “entertain” a client. I don’t love playing golf with people who aren’t very good whom I don’t know. That could go either way and I like to play golf, not “work” golf.

2. Yes, not the dues but all scrip is covered by business, but it took some justification.

3. Yes.

4. I would doubt it, depending on the size of the client or the sale. If I were selling advertising to a VISA exec, yeah. If I am selling plumbing supplies it would be an experience for the prospective client but does it put off the wrong vibe? I would think so.

5. Every single one. I play almost every single time with clients I have met on the golf course. I never asked them for business, it just happens, and my friends become clients. This helps explain #2. The boss thought I was golfing, but when I produced the results of being seen on the golf course, the boss not only encouraged me to expand my playing partners (I haven’t) and they pay for all my food/drink.

[cristphoto]

Zero business since I'm retired. I do enjoy conversations about investments or retirement planning with others. Often helpful or reassuring (that I'm on the right track).

[Bonneville85308]

I've spent most of my career at the "individual contributor" level in major publicly-traded companies. I've often been involved in the selection of a contractor or service provider to carry out my projects.

There's always been so much red-tape, policies, company codes of ethics I had signed, etc. that there is/was no way I could sway business towards a particular contractor or supplier simply because they invited me to play at a top club. To do so would put my job at risk. What I could do, was make sure they got invited to the bidding process, so long as their company met the basic requirements for whatever the product or service needed was, met our safety/insurance requirements, etc.

I was never comfortable getting invited by a supplier to play golf on company time. It falls into a weird area where it is sort of work related, but nobody wants to use PTO for it, and my non-golfer co-workers would get all petty about it if they learned I was playing golf on company time while they toiled in the office. It was much easier to go out to a fancy dinner with the supplier at the end of the work day, that nobody else would know about in my office.