US Kids Priority Status

[heavy_hitter]

> @yellowlover519 said:

> > @heavy_hitter said:

> > > @wildcatden said:

> > > > @mrshinsa said:

> > > > WTF... Our local tour price went up this season. Totally not worth it for those courses.

> > > > 9-hole: $65.00

> > > > 18-hole: $75.00

> > >

> > >

> > > I emailed USKG about the rate increase. Here is the response:

> > >

> > > "Our rates for tournaments are based purely off the rates quoted to us by the golf courses. If we can secure golf courses for better rates, then that savings is passed on to the consumers. I’m sorry that you feel like you are getting less value in these events in years passed. Hopefully, the rates negotiated by the golf courses will go down soon, and we can continue passing that on to you."

> > >

> > > OK, so who has had rates go **down** at their local tours in the last 5 years? Or go down at all at any time (perhaps during the 2008 financial meltdown)?

> >

> > I honestly wouldn't pay what you guys are paying. Someone is making a buck.

> >

> > Palm Beach Tour

> > 9-hole: $37.00

> > 18-hole: $47.00

> >

> > Sarasota Tour

> > 9-hole: $37.00

> > 18-hole: $47.00

> >

> > Tampa Tour

> > 9-hole: $45.00

> > 18-hole: $55.00

> >

> > Orlando Tour

> > 9-hole: $47.00

> > 18-hole: $57.00

> >

> > NorthWest Florida

> > 9-hole: $37.00

> > 18-hole: $47.00

> >

> > Naples

> > 9-hole: $37.00

> > 18-hole: $47.00

> >

> How cheap is public golf in Florida? $47 for a weekend 18 does not seem like a lot.

>

>

 

You have to remember when our season is. Our Season is from November to April and difficult to get on any track. The Stuart Local Tour happens during season and is played on two cow pastures. Beginning May to the end of October it is off season for us.

 

I know I didn't answer your question. I am a member at the course we live on and have our own cart. We pay the yearly cart trail fee so we never pay at our course.

 

My in-laws our members at another facility. Son's good friend is a member at another facility with two courses. Kid never pays when he goes there.

 

His high school coaches are at two separate facilities. The high end course, flipping unreal course as USGA mid-am was there, he can play at no cost either. They have three courses. Other coach is GM at a public facility and he pays $1 to walk there. The other local Muni in town has two courses and kids walk for $1 after 2.

 

FJT 36 hole tournaments in the state are $95 and usually at really nice facilities. Year round when you play their events practice rounds a week before the tournament is $25 and includes the cart. He played Streamson Red and Blue this summer for $25 and I drove. Really good deal. SFPGA tournaments are $110.00 and most practice rounds are $25.00 as well.

 

To try and answer your question, if we were going to play on reciprocal at any of the private courses, it would be $50.00 to $75.00. It is just hard to answer because we pay very minimal or not at all wherever he plays.

[tiger1873]

> @CTgolf said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @yellowlover519 said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > Local Tour events are not meant for development; they are used to introduce young kids to the game and be a (simple, in my opinion) test to separate the great players from the masses.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I've looked at the local tour par 3's and on paper there aren't any that are more than a 9 iron. That's pitch and putt level stuff. How many upper level events cater to the lowest common denominator?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Did you even read the post that you are quoting in response?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are so lost on this journey it's safer for the rest of us to let the wolves eat you.

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess you've got it all figured out as the parent of an 11yo.

> > > >

> > > > Some of us have been though the US kids events and now moving on to higher events. It's a different game and those who dominate US Kids or events at young age tend to be forgotten. As a parent of junior golfer it is very very tough to remember long term development of the full game is what matters.

> > >

> > > Are you sure about this? Check the top 50 ajga rankings and then google them and us kids. A majority of them played and were all good at the us kids level too.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Positive about this a lot kids we played with no longer play golf and some them were quite good. I think this is even more true than 5 - 10 years ago. There are so many reason's why this is the case. Some kids burnout end up hating golf, Others never had the skills to begin with and sadly other kids go off and do drugs. Usually the more casual parents are the ones who end up sticking with golf.

> >

> > A lot kids have played in US Kids tournaments but to know if they were serious at the time or not really is only something you see at the time playing with them. I also know looking at the PGA and LPGA a lot people came out of nowhere too. For instance I don't think Stacy Lewis was well known until after college? Same thing with Brooks Keopka I don't believe he tore up the US Kids circuit either week in week out.

>

> Stacy Lewis was D1 NCAA Women's Champion

 

Yes I know that but I don't believe she was very successful as young junior. She a great example of a golfer who played but just kept getting better and didn't peak too early.

[CTgolf]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @CTgolf said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > @yellowlover519 said:

> > > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > > Local Tour events are not meant for development; they are used to introduce young kids to the game and be a (simple, in my opinion) test to separate the great players from the masses.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I've looked at the local tour par 3's and on paper there aren't any that are more than a 9 iron. That's pitch and putt level stuff. How many upper level events cater to the lowest common denominator?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Did you even read the post that you are quoting in response?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are so lost on this journey it's safer for the rest of us to let the wolves eat you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I guess you've got it all figured out as the parent of an 11yo.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some of us have been though the US kids events and now moving on to higher events. It's a different game and those who dominate US Kids or events at young age tend to be forgotten. As a parent of junior golfer it is very very tough to remember long term development of the full game is what matters.

> > > >

> > > > Are you sure about this? Check the top 50 ajga rankings and then google them and us kids. A majority of them played and were all good at the us kids level too.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Positive about this a lot kids we played with no longer play golf and some them were quite good. I think this is even more true than 5 - 10 years ago. There are so many reason's why this is the case. Some kids burnout end up hating golf, Others never had the skills to begin with and sadly other kids go off and do drugs. Usually the more casual parents are the ones who end up sticking with golf.

> > >

> > > A lot kids have played in US Kids tournaments but to know if they were serious at the time or not really is only something you see at the time playing with them. I also know looking at the PGA and LPGA a lot people came out of nowhere too. For instance I don't think Stacy Lewis was well known until after college? Same thing with Brooks Keopka I don't believe he tore up the US Kids circuit either week in week out.

> >

> > Stacy Lewis was D1 NCAA Women's Champion

>

> Yes I know that but I don't believe she was very successful as young junior. She a great example of a golfer who played but just kept getting better and didn't peak too early.

 

How do you get recruited to a top women's D1 program, at which she was a 4-time All American (immediate success), and not be successful as a junior golfer?

[tiger1873]

> @CTgolf said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > @yellowlover519 said:

> > > > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Local Tour events are not meant for development; they are used to introduce young kids to the game and be a (simple, in my opinion) test to separate the great players from the masses.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I've looked at the local tour par 3's and on paper there aren't any that are more than a 9 iron. That's pitch and putt level stuff. How many upper level events cater to the lowest common denominator?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Did you even read the post that you are quoting in response?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are so lost on this journey it's safer for the rest of us to let the wolves eat you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I guess you've got it all figured out as the parent of an 11yo.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some of us have been though the US kids events and now moving on to higher events. It's a different game and those who dominate US Kids or events at young age tend to be forgotten. As a parent of junior golfer it is very very tough to remember long term development of the full game is what matters.

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you sure about this? Check the top 50 ajga rankings and then google them and us kids. A majority of them played and were all good at the us kids level too.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Positive about this a lot kids we played with no longer play golf and some them were quite good. I think this is even more true than 5 - 10 years ago. There are so many reason's why this is the case. Some kids burnout end up hating golf, Others never had the skills to begin with and sadly other kids go off and do drugs. Usually the more casual parents are the ones who end up sticking with golf.

> > > >

> > > > A lot kids have played in US Kids tournaments but to know if they were serious at the time or not really is only something you see at the time playing with them. I also know looking at the PGA and LPGA a lot people came out of nowhere too. For instance I don't think Stacy Lewis was well known until after college? Same thing with Brooks Keopka I don't believe he tore up the US Kids circuit either week in week out.

> > >

> > > Stacy Lewis was D1 NCAA Women's Champion

> >

> > Yes I know that but I don't believe she was very successful as young junior. She a great example of a golfer who played but just kept getting better and didn't peak too early.

>

> How do you get recruited to a top women's D1 program, at which she was a 4-time All American (immediate success), and not be successful as a junior golfer?

 

I thought we talking about younger kids? Stacy Lewis wasn't winning Major Junior Events when she was 10. If you ever met her she is the nicest person. I know she did not have easy success at a young age either. It wasn't until college until she found success.

[BertGA]

> @CTgolf said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > @yellowlover519 said:

> > > > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @CTgolf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Local Tour events are not meant for development; they are used to introduce young kids to the game and be a (simple, in my opinion) test to separate the great players from the masses.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I've looked at the local tour par 3's and on paper there aren't any that are more than a 9 iron. That's pitch and putt level stuff. How many upper level events cater to the lowest common denominator?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Did you even read the post that you are quoting in response?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are so lost on this journey it's safer for the rest of us to let the wolves eat you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I guess you've got it all figured out as the parent of an 11yo.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some of us have been though the US kids events and now moving on to higher events. It's a different game and those who dominate US Kids or events at young age tend to be forgotten. As a parent of junior golfer it is very very tough to remember long term development of the full game is what matters.

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you sure about this? Check the top 50 ajga rankings and then google them and us kids. A majority of them played and were all good at the us kids level too.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Positive about this a lot kids we played with no longer play golf and some them were quite good. I think this is even more true than 5 - 10 years ago. There are so many reason's why this is the case. Some kids burnout end up hating golf, Others never had the skills to begin with and sadly other kids go off and do drugs. Usually the more casual parents are the ones who end up sticking with golf.

> > > >

> > > > A lot kids have played in US Kids tournaments but to know if they were serious at the time or not really is only something you see at the time playing with them. I also know looking at the PGA and LPGA a lot people came out of nowhere too. For instance I don't think Stacy Lewis was well known until after college? Same thing with Brooks Keopka I don't believe he tore up the US Kids circuit either week in week out.

> > >

> > > Stacy Lewis was D1 NCAA Women's Champion

> >

> > Yes I know that but I don't believe she was very successful as young junior. She a great example of a golfer who played but just kept getting better and didn't peak too early.

>

> How do you get recruited to a top women's D1 program, at which she was a 4-time All American (immediate success), and not be successful as a junior golfer?

 

Depends on what period of junior golf you are crushing it. As most of us know that follow this forum, college coaches don’t give much merit to competitions before 12 years old. So you could easily be pedestrian until you are 13, steadily improve until you are winning at 15-16, and still be heavily recruited.

[kcap]

@leezer99 . With all due respect your 11 hits in a mile and I believe someone remarked that his SS is at the top 5% for his age group. You already mentioned that plays 6300 yards (shoots low) and is able to reach most 400+ yards Par 4 in regulation. What am I getting at, you cannot use his ability to judge the USKG 11 Local distance- that tour is not meant for your son or the top 5% it meant for the masses .. so let us enjoy it!

 

@tiger . There are always exception to the rule but a thread a while ago already showed that the top 10% in USKIDS worlds about 5 years ago were playing D1 college. I can’t find it but someone did the work! Your explanation of drugs, girls distractions can be applied to anything in life.. I don’t know why but you always preach to us (parents with JR golfers under 12).. don’t preach, make sound points, we can judge.

 

I said this a while ago.. I don’t see why USKG needs to be played in isolation. We play different tours, distance and the works.. they all serve a purpose

 

[tiger1873]

> @kcap said:

> @leezer99 . With all due respect your 11 hits in a mile and I believe someone remarked that his SS is at the top 5% for his age group. You already mentioned that plays 6300 yards (shoots low) and is able to reach most 400+ yards Par 4 in regulation. What am I getting at, you cannot use his ability to judge the USKG 11 Local distance- that tour is not meant for your son or the top 5% it meant for the masses .. so let us enjoy it!

>

> @tiger . There are always exception to the rule but a thread a while ago already showed that the top 10% in USKIDS worlds about 5 years ago were playing D1 college. I can’t find it but someone did the work! Your explanation of drugs, girls distractions can be applied to anything in life.. I don’t know why but you always preach to us (parents with JR golfers under 12).. don’t preach, make sound points, we can judge.

>

> I said this a while ago.. I don’t see why USKG needs to be played in isolation. We play different tours, distance and the works.. they all serve a purpose

>

 

I am not preaching at all just stating fact that a lot kids who play well in us kids at a young are not even playing when the kids get older.

 

US kids courses are just very short pars are sort like playing with old guys at a

Country Club and they tell you they birdied a hole. It sounds great until you find out they birdied with there handicap and really got a 5 instead of there usual 6 on a par 4.

 

 

 

 

[Pinewood Golfer]

> @kcap said:

> @leezer99 . With all due respect your 11 hits in a mile and I believe someone remarked that his SS is at the top 5% for his age group. You already mentioned that plays 6300 yards (shoots low) and is able to reach most 400+ yards Par 4 in regulation. What am I getting at, you cannot use his ability to judge the USKG 11 Local distance- that tour is not meant for your son or the top 5% it meant for the masses .. so let us enjoy it!

>

> @tiger . There are always exception to the rule but a thread a while ago already showed that the top 10% in USKIDS worlds about 5 years ago were playing D1 college. I can’t find it but someone did the work! Your explanation of drugs, girls distractions can be applied to anything in life.. I don’t know why but you always preach to us (parents with JR golfers under 12).. don’t preach, make sound points, we can judge.

>

> I said this a while ago.. I don’t see why USKG needs to be played in isolation. We play different tours, distance and the works.. they all serve a purpose

>

 

I did the research. More than 75% of USKG World PARTICIAPNTS at age 9 play college golf

[yellowlover519]

Also re distance. I’ve played my share of golf in Southern California. Those fairways are fast and firm. Totally different and maybe playing USKG yardages in SoCal seems way too short. The balls just go forever. Same with Arizona. Obviously, places like CO would be ridiculous as well.

[leezer99]

> @yellowlover519 said:

> Also re distance. I’ve played my share of golf in Southern California. Those fairways are fast and firm. Totally different and maybe playing USKG yardages in SoCal seems way too short. The balls just go forever. Same with Arizona. Obviously, places like CO would be ridiculous as well.

 

Not true. In winter they are firm and get some roll but that's mitigated by colder temps. In summer fairways are soft due over watering to simply keep them alive. The exception is maybe rustic canyon. What courses were you playing?

[kcap]

@tiger1873 : you are staying the obvious, in all sports, not only golf.. kids begin to drop out between ages 12-16.. it’s called puberty and distractions. It is quite likely that kids who mainly play local tour and don’t have the game to make it to Worlds will likely drop out.

 

As Pinewood pointed out and he has done the research.. kids who qualify for worlds and do well, play college golf. That is a fact.

What you state is an opinion but call it a fact - thus I used the word preach.

[tiger1873]

> @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > @kcap said:

> > @leezer99 . With all due respect your 11 hits in a mile and I believe someone remarked that his SS is at the top 5% for his age group. You already mentioned that plays 6300 yards (shoots low) and is able to reach most 400+ yards Par 4 in regulation. What am I getting at, you cannot use his ability to judge the USKG 11 Local distance- that tour is not meant for your son or the top 5% it meant for the masses .. so let us enjoy it!

> >

> > @tiger . There are always exception to the rule but a thread a while ago already showed that the top 10% in USKIDS worlds about 5 years ago were playing D1 college. I can’t find it but someone did the work! Your explanation of drugs, girls distractions can be applied to anything in life.. I don’t know why but you always preach to us (parents with JR golfers under 12).. don’t preach, make sound points, we can judge.

> >

> > I said this a while ago.. I don’t see why USKG needs to be played in isolation. We play different tours, distance and the works.. they all serve a purpose

> >

>

> I did the research. More than 75% of USKG World PARTICIAPNTS at age 9 play college golf

 

Looking at stats and citing them is meaningless when you say participated. It pure marketing BS. What does this really mean? Lots of kids play college golf and at all levels are we talking D1 , D2 or D3. That is a big difference. One would also think that parents who are dedicated enough to bring there kids to US Kids worlds that number should be a lot higher.

If you look at the US Kids worlds and top 5 kids from way and then look at PGA tour later how many of them won a PGA tournament ??????? Probably not many.

 

If that is not good enough how about US Amature Majors?????

 

The fact is the leaders on tour come from very diverse backgrounds and more often then no they take years to achieve success at a high level.

 

[Pinewood Golfer]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > > @kcap said:

> > > @leezer99 . With all due respect your 11 hits in a mile and I believe someone remarked that his SS is at the top 5% for his age group. You already mentioned that plays 6300 yards (shoots low) and is able to reach most 400+ yards Par 4 in regulation. What am I getting at, you cannot use his ability to judge the USKG 11 Local distance- that tour is not meant for your son or the top 5% it meant for the masses .. so let us enjoy it!

> > >

> > > @tiger . There are always exception to the rule but a thread a while ago already showed that the top 10% in USKIDS worlds about 5 years ago were playing D1 college. I can’t find it but someone did the work! Your explanation of drugs, girls distractions can be applied to anything in life.. I don’t know why but you always preach to us (parents with JR golfers under 12).. don’t preach, make sound points, we can judge.

> > >

> > > I said this a while ago.. I don’t see why USKG needs to be played in isolation. We play different tours, distance and the works.. they all serve a purpose

> > >

> >

> > I did the research. More than 75% of USKG World PARTICIAPNTS at age 9 play college golf

>

> Looking at stats and citing them is meaningless when you say participated. It pure marketing BS. What does this really mean? Lots of kids play college golf and at all levels are we talking D1 , D2 or D3. That is a big difference. One would also think that parents who are dedicated enough to bring there kids to US Kids worlds that number should be a lot higher.

> If you look at the US Kids worlds and top 5 kids from way and then look at PGA tour later how many of them won a PGA tournament ??????? Probably not many.

>

> If that is not good enough how about US Amature Majors?????

>

> The fact is the leaders on tour come from very diverse backgrounds and more often then no they take years to achieve success at a high level.

>

 

Good lord...go back and find it if you want. I looked at it two years ago. There was very little correlation between finish position and (a) whether or not they played at any level and (b) what level college golf they played. The bottom 15-20 of the field had a lower rate but that was it. So the top 125 or so played at a very high rate and it was consistent regardless of finish position. Feel free to look at it yourself and then come back to disputed. We were all very surprised with the reaults

 

[tiger1873]

I went back and looked at past winners for US Kids

Here is the winners list.

https://www.uskidsgolf.com/tournaments/world/world-champions

 

from a quick glance Lexi Thompson is the only kid who actually achieved any success and won a US Kids event.

 

Looking at that list early success means nothing. A much better predictor is when there older and about 17 or 18 and have amateur status.

 

I should also add you need to ignore recent names in the last 4 or 5 years because we still have no clue how they will do but ones from 12-18 years ago do not have a good record.

[mrshinsa]

3, 2, 1... and just like that at 75bux a pop and two days later, our local tour is sold out...

:D

[kcap]

@tiger1873.

OMG. Your notion of success! Is winning on the PGA tour?. Do you realize how hard that is? Forget that, even earning and maintaining your card is extremely hard. A very low percentage of golfers make it that far! You need to chill out and enjoy the journey. I can assure, if your goal and reason for playing golf at 12 yr old is to play the PGA tour .. it will never happen.

[tiger1873]

> @kcap said:

> @tiger1873.

> OMG. Your notion of success! Is winning on the PGA tour?. Do you realize how hard that is? Forget that, even earning and maintaining your card is extremely hard. A very low percentage of golfers make it that far! You need to chill out and enjoy the journey. I can assure, if your goal and reason for playing golf at 12 yr old is to play the PGA tour .. it will never happen.

 

I would think for all those kids that won US Kids worlds their parents had dreams of them becoming a successful pro a goal for them after they won. I would say the pressure was even more so for multi-year winners. Look at the list of current winners I am sure more then one of those parents think the PGA is a sure thing now for them.

 

This again has nothing to do with mine or anyone else’s goals for their kids. If US Kids wins mattered you would see a lot names you recognize on that list.

 

 

[yellowlover519]

> @tiger1873 said:

> I went back and looked at past winners for US Kids

> Here is the winners list.

> https://www.uskidsgolf.com/tournaments/world/world-champions

>

> from a quick glance Lexi Thompson is the only kid who actually achieved any success and won a US Kids event.

>

> Looking at that list early success means nothing. A much better predictor is when there older and about 17 or 18 and have amateur status.

>

> I should also add you need to ignore recent names in the last 4 or 5 years because we still have no clue how they will do but ones from 12-18 years ago do not have a good record.

 

Ricky, Karl and Michael all won world's didn't they? Aren't they top 3 in the junior rankings (or were at one point)?

[yellowlover519]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @kcap said:

> > @tiger1873.

> > OMG. Your notion of success! Is winning on the PGA tour?. Do you realize how hard that is? Forget that, even earning and maintaining your card is extremely hard. A very low percentage of golfers make it that far! You need to chill out and enjoy the journey. I can assure, if your goal and reason for playing golf at 12 yr old is to play the PGA tour .. it will never happen.

>

> I would think for all those kids that won US Kids worlds their parents had dreams of them becoming a successful pro a goal for them after they won. I would say the pressure was even more so for multi-year winners. Look at the list of current winners I am sure more then one of those parents think the PGA is a sure thing now for them.

>

> This again has nothing to do with mine or anyone else’s goals for their kids. If US Kids wins mattered you would see a lot names you recognize on that list.

>

>

 

again, too early to tell the impact and correlation of US Kids. It's only been as popular as it is the last 12-15 years. You have to wait and see...

[tiger1873]

> @yellowlover519 said:

>

> Ricky, Karl and Michael all won world's didn't they? Aren't they top 3 in the junior rankings (or were at one point)?

 

I am no means an expert but didn't Ricky only get serious about golf when he was a teenager? With Karl Vilps I am not sure if there old enough to comment on if there ultimately successful. I would say the same thing about others on that list who are not old enough to play professionally.

 

The results on US Kids Worlds shows it has been around for about 20 years now. The vast majority of winners with the exception of Lexi Thompson I would say did not continue to dominate and become top players on the professional level. If we are honest about raising junior golfers we should be looking at the best golfers in the world not college golfers as a benchmark.

 

I am using PGA and LPGA as reference for success because we are talking about elite players at the younger level and did they continue to play at that level as they aged. I think this is a very telling tale.

 

.

 

 

[wildcatden]

> @mrshinsa said:

> 3, 2, 1... and just like that at 75bux a pop and two days later, our local tour is sold out...

> :D

 

We are passing on $65/9-holes.

[kcap]

@tiger1873 - I am pretty honest with myself and I don't agree with your definition of success. The end result for my son is by no means being a Pro (I do not even know if he is going to play college golf) . That said, he continue to play golf and I spend an exorbitant amount of time and money on this journey.

 

You are entitled to your views. So while you keep preaching, I just disagree and lets just move on.

[yellowlover519]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @yellowlover519 said:

> >

> > Ricky, Karl and Michael all won world's didn't they? Aren't they top 3 in the junior rankings (or were at one point)?

>

> I am no means an expert but didn't Ricky only get serious about golf when he was a teenager? With Karl Vilps I am not sure if there old enough to comment on if there ultimately successful. I would say the same thing about others on that list who are not old enough to play professionally.

>

> The results on US Kids Worlds shows it has been around for about 20 years now. The vast majority of winners with the exception of Lexi Thompson I would say did not continue to dominate and become top players on the professional level. If we are honest about raising junior golfers we should be looking at the best golfers in the world not college golfers as a benchmark.

>

> I am using PGA and LPGA as reference for success because we are talking about elite players at the younger level and did they continue to play at that level as they aged. I think this is a very telling tale.

>

> .

>

>

 

Even if you use that as a measure, it's too soon to tell. You are talking about really the last 10 years or so since USKG has had the popularity it has today. If you want to do a similar analysis, look at IMG Junior World results (previously, Callaway). That was basically the same tournament (with respect to prestige) prior to USKG for 12U golf. I'm sure you will get a better landscape of golfers that won that tournament and USKG at 12U and played in a pro event. Just looking at USKG past champions, I see the following players that have or will play in a pro event:

Alexa Pano, Karl Vilips, Cole Hammer, Giana Clemente, Cheyenne Woods, Michael Thorbjornsen and Lexi Thompson.

And we are limiting this to winners of the event itself. If you broadened it to participants (which is really what we're talking about), I'm sure the correlation between your PRO STANDARD and participation in USKG at 12U would be significant. Add in Callaway Junior Worlds, which was effectively the biggest 12U event prior to USKG, you'll see a pretty decent correlation between participation in that event and golfers that turned pro.

[tiger1873]

> @yellowlover519 said:

 

> Alexa Pano, Karl Vilips, Cole Hammer, Giana Clemente, Cheyenne Woods, Michael Thorbjornsen and Lexi Thompson.

> And we are limiting this to winners of the event itself. If you broadened it to participants (which is really what we're talking about), I'm sure the correlation between your PRO STANDARD and participation in USKG at 12U would be significant. Add in Callaway Junior Worlds, which was effectively the biggest 12U event prior to USKG, you'll see a pretty decent correlation between participation in that event and golfers that turned pro.

 

 

What do you work for US Kids???? I am talking about actual winners of there biggest event. I don't know about you but 20 years is a long time. This is long enough to see a generation grow up. How many more years do you need? Let's give it 50 years and see if anyone makes the champion tour?????

 

I could argue 10 other tours with better more participation if we are talking about just participation. Junior Golfers just play events period.

 

In 20 years the only winner to win an event and go on to gain some success is Lexi Thompson. That is not good odds. You listed some kids who are this years winners ??? I know you listed Alexa Pano but I would not say long term success i guaranteed. How about Dottie Ardina??? or Clare Legaspi???? The truth is Pano has a good game but she needs to gain additional strength and drive a little longer to compete on the LPGA. If we don't see that in the next year or two she probaly will not do well on the LPGA. She is still young but that is what I heard from a lot people.

 

Here is a list of US Kids multiple winners. Look up some the older names on there and then tell me did they live up to the hype.

 

5 Alexa Pano 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016

5 Dottie Ardina 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

5 Clare Amelia Legaspi 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

5 Marijosse Navarro 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

5 Phillip Dunham 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

4 Jim Liu 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006

4 Joshua Martin 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008

4 Allan Kournikova 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015

3 Yuuma Nemoto 2016, 2017, 2018

3 Mimi Chen 2012, 2014, 2015

3 Stephen Abrams 2005, 2006, 2007

3 Ratchanon Chantananuwat 2014, 2015, 2016

3 Jimmy Beck 2000, 2001, 2004

3 Allisen Corpuz 2006, 2007, 2009

3 Jed Dy 2011, 2013, 2014

3 Yueer Cindy Feng 2004, 2007, 2008

3 Jonnie Motomochi 2001, 2002, 2003

3 Paloma Martinez 2000, 2001, 2003

3 Cory Whitsett 2002, 2003, 2004

3 Terrence Zhang 2005, 2007, 2009

 

[yellowlover519]

@tiger1873 what exactly is your point or argument? That winners of USKG worlds don’t make it to the professional level? As opposed to winners of what?

[tiger1873]

> @wildcatden said:

> > @mrshinsa said:

> > 3, 2, 1... and just like that at 75bux a pop and two days later, our local tour is sold out...

> > :D

>

> We are passing on $65/9-holes.

 

Are you including the cart fee's and tour season registration fees? I figured out here in Florida even though the tournament fee's are less we end up paying about the same.

 

Not having a cart is not an option because if you have a long walk between holes and everyone else has carts especially the group in front you will end up way behind and they will complain your holding others up. After trying to explain we can't run to every hole a few times I just decided a cart is a requirement for every tournament locally.

[wildcatden]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @wildcatden said:

> > > @mrshinsa said:

> > > 3, 2, 1... and just like that at 75bux a pop and two days later, our local tour is sold out...

> > > :D

> >

> > We are passing on $65/9-holes.

>

> Are you including the cart fee's and tour season registration fees? I figured out here in Florida even though the tournament fee's are less we end up paying about the same.

>

> Not having a cart is not an option because if you have a long walk between holes and everyone else has carts especially the group in front you will end up way behind and they will complain your holding others up. After trying to explain we can't run to every hole a few times I just decided a cart is a requirement for every tournament locally.

 

LOL, no we don't rent carts for 9 holes. Tournament fee is $40 and there are 6 events for the tour....so just under $7/tournament tacked on to the $65. Still, people in the Bay Area signing up in droves to pay ~$72/9-holes event in cold, wet fall conditions on absolutely cr-phole, run-of-the-mill courses.

 

[leveragedbuyout]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @yellowlover519 said:

>

> > Alexa Pano, Karl Vilips, Cole Hammer, Giana Clemente, Cheyenne Woods, Michael Thorbjornsen and Lexi Thompson.

> > And we are limiting this to winners of the event itself. If you broadened it to participants (which is really what we're talking about), I'm sure the correlation between your PRO STANDARD and participation in USKG at 12U would be significant. Add in Callaway Junior Worlds, which was effectively the biggest 12U event prior to USKG, you'll see a pretty decent correlation between participation in that event and golfers that turned pro.

>

>

> What do you work for US Kids???? I am talking about actual winners of there biggest event. I don't know about you but 20 years is a long time. This is long enough to see a generation grow up. How many more years do you need? Let's give it 50 years and see if anyone makes the champion tour?????

>

> I could argue 10 other tours with better more participation if we are talking about just participation. Junior Golfers just play events period.

>

> In 20 years the only winner to win an event and go on to gain some success is Lexi Thompson. That is not good odds. You listed some kids who are this years winners ??? I know you listed Alexa Pano but I would not say long term success i guaranteed. How about Dottie Ardina??? or Clare Legaspi???? The truth is Pano has a good game but she needs to gain additional strength and drive a little longer to compete on the LPGA. If we don't see that in the next year or two she probaly will not do well on the LPGA. She is still young but that is what I heard from a lot people.

>

> Here is a list of US Kids multiple winners. Look up some the older names on there and then tell me did they live up to the hype.

>

> 5 Alexa Pano 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016

> 5 Dottie Ardina 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

> 5 Clare Amelia Legaspi 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

> 5 Marijosse Navarro 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

> 5 Phillip Dunham 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

> 4 Jim Liu 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006

> 4 Joshua Martin 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008

> 4 Allan Kournikova 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015

> 3 Yuuma Nemoto 2016, 2017, 2018

> 3 Mimi Chen 2012, 2014, 2015

> 3 Stephen Abrams 2005, 2006, 2007

> 3 Ratchanon Chantananuwat 2014, 2015, 2016

> 3 Jimmy Beck 2000, 2001, 2004

> 3 Allisen Corpuz 2006, 2007, 2009

> 3 Jed Dy 2011, 2013, 2014

> 3 Yueer Cindy Feng 2004, 2007, 2008

> 3 Jonnie Motomochi 2001, 2002, 2003

> 3 Paloma Martinez 2000, 2001, 2003

> 3 Cory Whitsett 2002, 2003, 2004

> 3 Terrence Zhang 2005, 2007, 2009

>

 

Quick google search on each revealed some intriguing findings…

(Players who are still Junior age excluded, except for Pano due to her high WAGR ranking)

 

Alexa Pano 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016

WAGR Ranking: 43

Co-Medalist 2019 US Women’s Am Stroke Play

Round of 16 2019 US Women’s Am Match Play

 

Dottie Ardina 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

LPGA Tour Player

$86,000 Career Earnings

20 LPGA Tournaments Played in 2019; made 4 cuts

LPGA Bio: https://www.lpga.com/players/dottie-ardina/98389/bio

 

Clare Amelia Legaspi 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Junior on UCLA Women’s Golf Team

UCLA Bio: https://uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=8475

 

Marijosse Navarro 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

Symetra Tour Player

$877 Career Earnings

Symetra Bio: https://www.symetratour.com/players/marijosse-navarro/88403/overview

 

Jim Liu 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006

At 14, he was youngest to win US Junior Am in 2010, defeating Justin Thomas in the Final

Left Stanford golf team in middle of sophomore season

Currently an IB Analyst at BofA Merrill Lynch

 

Joshua Martin 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008

WAGR Ranking: 335

Senior on UNC’s Men’s Golf Team 2018/2019

UNC Bio: https://goheels.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=14751

 

Stephen Abrams 2005, 2006, 2007

Not much online about Stephen’s current golf situation, if any.

3rd best golf prodigy all time per this list: https://www.thetoptens.com/child-golf-prodigies/

Limited Recruiting Profile: https://www.ncsasports.org/mens-golf-recruiting/north-carolina/wilson/beddingfield-high-school/stephen-abrams1

 

Jimmy Beck 2000, 2001, 2004

Korn Ferry Tour Player

Korn Ferry Bio: https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.49376.jimmy-beck.html

 

3 Allisen Corpuz 2006, 2007, 2009

Senior on USC’s Women’s Golf Team

USC Bio: https://usctrojans.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=10610

 

Yueer Cindy Feng 2004, 2007, 2008

LPGA Tour Player

LPGA Bio: https://www.lpga.com/players/yueer-cindy-feng/98023/overview

 

Jonnie Motomochi 2001, 2002, 2003

Teaching Pro – Morgan Creek Golf Course

Bio: https://www.morgancreekgolf.com/blog/196-welcome-jonnie-motomochi

 

Paloma Martinez 2000, 2001, 2003

limited info available online

Grad Year was 2010

2008-09 FCWT Junior Tour Profile: https://fcwt.bluegolf.com/bluegolfw/fcwt8/event/fcwt839/contest/7/profile/pmartinez22/tresults.htm?next=%2Fbluegolfw%2Ffcwt19%2Fevent%2Ffcwt839%2Fcontest%2F7%2Fcontestant%2F5229%2Fstat%2Feaglecount.htm

 

Cory Whitsett 2002, 2003, 2004

Played some events on PGA Tour in 2014-2015

PGA Tour Profile: https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.36836.cory-whitsett.html

Caddied for Justin Thomas at the 2018 Hero World Challenge; https://www.thecaddienetwork.com/aspiring-pga-tour-pro-corey-whitsett-on-the-bag-for-former-bama-teammate-justin-thomas-hoping-for-an-education-at-hero-world-challenge/

 

Terrence Zhang 2005, 2007, 2009

IB Analyst Wells Fargo Securities

 

[Kcct82]

Great info, I really appreciate it. But you guys seem to have a lot of free time on your hands lol.

[kcap]

@leveragedbuyout .. that was a good post.. fun to read and reflect. Although as @ kcct82 said you do have a lot of time on your hands.. guess it’s the mkt no LBOs happening!