Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[FatReed]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430080790' post='11446175']
No Tapio's said his Dad wants right arm bent at impact. That doesn't mean it doesn't straighten in transition. Those arent mutually exclusive. Sergio actively straightens it in transition while keeping pivot back and has written multiple articles about it. He just doesn't want it completely straight by impact. And I don't want it straight at impact either.
[/quote]

Yes Dan, better paraphrasing on your part.

With regard to Tapio, you've also addressed why his post was deleted - history, not recent post content related.

Regarding topic of trail elbow extension, not sure why it always morphs into presumed intent to have right arm (fully) extended at impact? You've also made this point clear on many occasions.

Moving on . . . would it be possible to provide further insight with regard to below comments/questions from a prior post? Thank you.

"With regard to HOW to properly straighten the right arm, this does seem to represent a major source of confusion and difficulty for those trying to take advantage of Dan's expertise. . . The confusion, as I interpret it, stems from the directional intent . . . in vector terms, the direction the force (extension) is to be applied. Is one's intent to be directed as right arm extension straight down and back, parallel to target line; straight down and out to ball (perpendicular to target line); or otherwise???"

[bph7]

[quote name='FatReed' timestamp='1430080419' post='11446131']
Lefty, I don't know if you are referencing the bigger scheme of Tapio things, or as they pertain to this thread?

In any event, what I thought was a brief interlude (digression) has taken on its own life.

Sergio was referenced as a model player demonstrating trail elbow extension. Tapio chimed in by stating he knew Sergio's father (and coach, I presume) and, to paraphrase, Sergio's father was opposed to the intent of trail elbow extension in the transition/early downswing.

Again, I do not pretend to know Sergio's intent, nor am I dismissing Dan's teaching philosophies. I simply found it odd that Tapio's reasonable contribution was deleted, and wondered why?
[/quote]

He's been banned before and came back on a different username. That is against the rules and an automatic ban. What is so hard to understand about this? Also, why would we believe teeace about anything? Dude is /was a clown always, the fact that some of you think he really knows Sergio's dad shows people here will believe anything...

[flatnstuck]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]

He's a Gerry Hogan-ite, and, like the former poster Lane, nearly bot like in his perpetual droning about pinkies, palms up and the dastardly atttempts by the fraternity of golf instructors to keep golfers from getting better.

Don't waste your time. They eventually tire of not being engaged and migrate to another forum to spam it inhabitants until this lesson is learned again.

[mikah]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]


who said anything about using the hands to square the face?....


Coat Jones:

"[b][i]What generates speed through impact can be right arm straightening or forearm rotation...[/i][/b]

Nope, these can be mutually inclusive."..

"That requires active rotation of the forearms which includes within that process an overtaking relationship between the thumb and pinkie."


As we all know, the muscles located in the forearms are hand muscles.. nothing to do with arm movement.. all about using the hands and fingers.
Coat ... show me the money!

Glad to hear we are in agreement. Hitting with hands is the most timing dependent move in golf. 1/4 of a second gives us time to control our hands, the key to the golf swing.(key to all movements)

[mikah]

[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1430094751' post='11447491']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]

He's a Gerry Hogan-ite, and, like the former poster Lane, nearly bot like in his perpetual droning about pinkies, palms up and the dastardly atttempts by the fraternity of golf instructors to keep golfers from getting better.

Don't waste your time. They eventually tire of not being engaged and migrate to another forum to spam it inhabitants until this lesson is learned again.
[/quote]


" It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky"

Flatnstuck,

sound like Gerry Hogan?

[FatReed]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430093131' post='11447287']
[quote name='games' timestamp='1430071297' post='11445535']Just want to commend wmblake2000, iteach, and grayback for their contributions to this thread.

I'm in the same boat as wmblake2000: I feel like I'm finally using proper downswing technique, but can't find the accelerator. My guess is it's going to be a learning process of just turning through the shot faster while maintaining sequencing and synchronization of hands, arms, shoulders, and body.[/quote]For lifelong steep,angle throwing,pivot stalling,forearm rotating closed too soon flippers like myself,the proper arm motion is very awkward and does not seem right.Uncomfortable would be the word to describe it.I can totally understand why you wonder where the accelerator is because you are so use to the wrong accelerator.

Dan made a few things very clear to me both on the phone and during the lessons.Getting a student to do the right mechanics can be very quick,but for the student to own it and make it fluid is where time and practice come in.The other thing is that the only people that will improve are those who are willing to be uncomfortable for a period of time until it gets comfortable.

Well,he got me to do the mechanics by day 2.How do I know?The camera does not lie and let me tell you,what I am doing in those swings feels incredibly uncomfortable and contorted.
[/quote]

Grayback,

Thank you for sharing.

My golfing journey over 20+ years since starting in childhood has boiled down to one swing component: transition optimization.

My thoughts, as confirmed through kind sharing of your own experiences, are that few naturally possess an intuitive and comfortable transition that maximizes swing potential.

For those who have come to this realization, and even those who have yet to realize it, perhaps you might be willing to express the feels/intents you have had to embrace along your personal journey?

Of course, it is given that no two golfers are the same, and there is no single approach that will prove universally beneficial. That said, we all appreciate and derive motivation from success stories.

[Coat Jones]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430094938' post='11447525']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]


who said anything about using the hands to square the face?....


Coat Jones:

"[b][i]What generates speed through impact can be right arm straightening or forearm rotation...[/i][/b]

Nope, these can be mutually inclusive."..

"That requires active rotation of the forearms which includes within that process an overtaking relationship between the thumb and pinkie."


As we all know, the muscles located in the forearms are hand muscles.. nothing to do with arm movement.. all about using the hands and fingers.
Coat ... show me the money!

Glad to hear we are in agreement. Hitting with hands is the most timing dependent move in golf. 1/4 of a second gives us time to control our hands, the key to the golf swing.(key to all movements)
[/quote]

You obviously have a desire to conflate issues by pulling disparate ideas into one bin of mulch and claiming the stink to be mine for your satisfaction in arguing an invalid point, made by you. It is a waste of my time, therefore this may well be my last post to you.

I was not discussing hitting with the hands at all. I was merely stating that your claim of a universal standard that if a thumb overtakes a pinkie it will be a lag loss is simply not accurate- just watch Ted Williams. I can't believe I'm even stooping to this level of discussion.

[i][b]As we all know, the muscles located in the forearms are hand muscles.. nothing to do with arm movement.. all about using the hands and fingers.[/b][/i]

You probably know more about muscles than I do, but to exclude the forearm, and its range of motion regardless of style or method of propulsion employed is simply preposterous. The forearm can rotate internally or externally either with, or without, arm participation which then reduces the equation to a response by the elbow and how that may affect face and rate of closure- pivot notwithstanding.

I'm done with you. It's too exhausting to speak with someone whose zeal clouds their reason.

So let me close by adding the hands are always hitting, it's just a matter of HOW WE ALLOW THEM TO HIT.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Coat Jones' timestamp='1430098451' post='11448027']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430094938' post='11447525']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]


who said anything about using the hands to square the face?....


Coat Jones:

"[b][i]What generates speed through impact can be right arm straightening or forearm rotation...[/i][/b]

Nope, these can be mutually inclusive."..

"That requires active rotation of the forearms which includes within that process an overtaking relationship between the thumb and pinkie."


As we all know, the muscles located in the forearms are hand muscles.. nothing to do with arm movement.. all about using the hands and fingers.
Coat ... show me the money!

Glad to hear we are in agreement. Hitting with hands is the most timing dependent move in golf. 1/4 of a second gives us time to control our hands, the key to the golf swing.(key to all movements)
[/quote]

You obviously have a desire to conflate issues by pulling disparate ideas into one bin of mulch and claiming the stink to be mine for your satisfaction in arguing an invalid point, made by you. It is a waste of my time, therefore this may well be my last post to you.

I was not discussing hitting with the hands at all. I was merely stating that your claim of a universal standard that if a thumb overtakes a pinkie it will be a lag loss is simply not accurate- just watch Ted Williams. I can't believe I'm even stooping to this level of discussion.

[i][b]As we all know, the muscles located in the forearms are hand muscles.. nothing to do with arm movement.. all about using the hands and fingers.[/b][/i]

You probably know more about muscles than I do, but to exclude the forearm, and its range of motion regardless of style or method of propulsion employed is simply preposterous. The forearm can rotate internally or externally either with, or without, arm participation which then reduces the equation to a response by the elbow- of which there would be 3 responses.

I'm done with you. It's too exhausting to speak with someone whose zeal clouds their reason.
[/quote]

All cult members are zealous until they realize the cult leader is a fraud ...

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='FatReed' timestamp='1430096249' post='11447719'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430093131' post='11447287']
[quote name='games' timestamp='1430071297' post='11445535']Just want to commend wmblake2000, iteach, and grayback for their contributions to this thread.

I'm in the same boat as wmblake2000: I feel like I'm finally using proper downswing technique, but can't find the accelerator. My guess is it's going to be a learning process of just turning through the shot faster while maintaining sequencing and synchronization of hands, arms, shoulders, and body.[/quote]For lifelong steep,angle throwing,pivot stalling,forearm rotating closed too soon flippers like myself,the proper arm motion is very awkward and does not seem right.Uncomfortable would be the word to describe it.I can totally understand why you wonder where the accelerator is because you are so use to the wrong accelerator.

Dan made a few things very clear to me both on the phone and during the lessons.Getting a student to do the right mechanics can be very quick,but for the student to own it and make it fluid is where time and practice come in.The other thing is that the only people that will improve are those who are willing to be uncomfortable for a period of time until it gets comfortable.

Well,he got me to do the mechanics by day 2.How do I know?The camera does not lie and let me tell you,what I am doing in those swings feels incredibly uncomfortable and contorted.
[/quote]

Grayback,

Thank you for sharing.

My golfing journey over 20+ years since starting in childhood has boiled down to one swing component: transition optimization.

My thoughts, as confirmed through kind sharing of your own experiences, are that few naturally possess an intuitive and comfortable transition that maximizes swing potential.

For those who have come to this realization, and even those who have yet to realize it, perhaps you might be willing to express the feels/intents you have had to embrace along your personal journey?

Of course, it is given that no two golfers are the same, and there is no single approach that will prove universally beneficial. That said, we all appreciate and derive motivation from success stories.[/quote]FR,First of all,I would not call my journey a success yet because it has not even been a week since I saw DC.Granted,my transition and downswing paths were clearly changed for the better in all of the swings he filmed.However,I am still in the conscious stages of learning a new motion and until those motions are ingrained into my swing pattern and my ball striking is sound,I really don't feel qualified or ready to state what I feel or what my intents are with any kind of authority.I can only offer what it is that I am currently working on.

[FatReed]

Grayback,

Exciting when you land in good hands and the mystery starts to unfold.

Looking forward to hearing more about your steps forward.

[wmblake2000]

Grayback and iteach. This idea seems really helpful. There are several related ideas - secondary tilt, r arm not stuck, r shoulder rotating rather than dipping, retaining the space created at address, etc. This element of r arm straightening and 'grayback's odd feel' (thxs grayback for the video link that illustrated) - this really seems to tie all these ideas together. My question re speed is resolved.... relax and just let her rip. The main thing this does as a secondary benefit is it makes me move the right shoulder better. With secondary tilt plus this move of hands moving away from shoulder from the top, everything - the arm, shoulder, torso - has to be on an aggressive/fast 'arc' to get the head to the ball.

Thanks to both, especially to grayback for sharing your learning. I think this really caps a huge leap forward that I am very excited about.

[mikah]

So let me close by adding the hands are always hitting, it's just a matter of HOW WE ALLOW THEM TO HIT.


BTW, in the kinematic sequence, wrists are free hinges and the hands become a part of the lever we call golf club.
, they are simply in the chain from proximal to distal.

But you keep hitting with your hands. .. that will stall your pivot very nicely... no wonder your thumbs overtake your pinkies.

Ted Williams was intelligent enough to figure it out himself... you? no so much. Thumbs over taking pinkies by impact????? 0:47

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lCtdF7q4I&feature=youtu.be&t=20"]https://www.youtube....e=youtu.be&t=20[/url]


Williams doesn't articulate it in his book but he employed a law of physics called The Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum. Simply stated as it applies here it means that [b]when you hold the arms close to the body and start the swing with your hips rather than your arms you will generate greater bat speed.[/b] Williams stated this simply in his book when he talks about starting the swing with the hips and holding the hands back as long as you can...[b]. the farther the hands get away from the body the slower the bat speed. It's a law of physics that simply cannot be overcome. The hands, wrists and arms add nothing to the speed of the bat[/b]. They are mere conduits through which the [b]power which is generated by the legs and the torso [/b]are transferred to the bat. Williams was intelligent enough to figure this one out on his own

[Coat Jones]

If you cannot see, or know the difference between, 'overtaking' and 'overtaken' mikah I'm afraid there is not anything more to say.

[mikah]

"nothing more to say"

promises , promises.



At impact, pinkies lead or they dont????

Ted Williams figured it out. You havent.. a law of physics that 'you cannot see or know difference'
.

[beutelwomb]

 

 

Sure, no straightening of the left arm in this case, you are totally right!

[Coat Jones]

Overtaking from underneath, simple to understand.
[attachment=2731759:file.gif]

[Coat Jones]

I always liked the phrase 'don't run out of right arm'. I changed it, and turned it into "save the right arm so you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done".

[mikah]

[indent=1]It's a law of physics that simply cannot be overcome. The hands, wrists and arms add nothing to the speed of the bat.[/indent]


[indent=1]They are [b]mere conduits[/b] through which the power which is generated by the legs and the torso are transferred to the bat.[/indent]

[games]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430142410' post='11450211']
I wanted to post a few stills from the video I was referencing earlier.Notice what happens with Christos hands from picture 1 to picture 2.Look at them in relation to his right shoulder and you'll clearly see how they have moved down and much further from shoulder.Right arm is unfolding without rotating closed.[/quote]

Thank you for sharing that video and stills, GB73. Funny, that it confirms some of my interpretations of the Arm Swing Illusion thread. I'm specifically thinking about the drop of the hands as being independent motion from body turn.

Funny that you get your instruction from iteach. I have taken lessons from Monte, purchased his videos, and watch his YouTube channel. It's threads like this where we see how good instructors like iteach and Monte (and Jim Waldron) share basic principles on swing theory. They just communicate it to their respective students, differently.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1430094751' post='11447491']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1430081358' post='11446209']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1430081090' post='11446193']
The universal truth is $$$

Not hitting with hands to square clubface on the back of the ball.
[/quote]

Who once said anything about using the hands to square the face? Your issue is you think you're so smart but are actually so ignorant you don't even understand the topic at hand so you can't even begin to have an intelligent discussion.

It's about getting arms wider WITHOUT rotating them. Perfectly compatible with your right palm to the sky yet you are so clueless you think we are talking right arm rotation which is independent of straightening.
[/quote]

He's a Gerry Hogan-ite, and, like the former poster Lane, nearly bot like in his perpetual droning about pinkies, palms up and the dastardly atttempts by the fraternity of golf instructors to keep golfers from getting better.

Don't waste your time. They eventually tire of not being engaged and migrate to another forum to spam it inhabitants until this lesson is learned again.
[/quote]

How do you know he isn't Lane ? A cult of one ...

[Coat Jones]

[i][b]It's a law of physics that simply cannot be overcome. The hands, wrists and arms addnothing to the speed of the bat.[/b][/i]

[i][b][color=#282828]They are [/color][b]mere conduits[/b][color=#282828] through which the power which is generated by the legs and the torso are transferred to the bat.[/color][/b][/i]


[color=#282828]I will make sure to inform the doorknob to my inner chamber that my forearm alone cannot create speed, via torque, upon the knob in order to open the door.[/color]

[b][color=#008000]"If you were teaching a child how to open a door, you wouldn't open the door for him and then describe at length how the door looked when it was open. No, you would teach him how to turn the doorknob so that he could open the door himself."[/color][/b][color=#282828]...[i][b]Ben Hogan[/b][/i][/color]

[color=#282828]Now I'm done with you. You should have read the correct Hogan book a little more closely.[/color]

[tinman143]

Gray, is this move working for you? Seems like your 1st move from transition is extending your right arm without rotation of shoulders correct?

[tinman143]

Makes sense thx.

[jbw749]

You can't straighten the right arm too fast too soon. If the right arm is straight at impact rather than bent it's because shoulder stalled not because the arms are firing too fast. Right arm must begin straightening before wrist begin uncocking. Coming down immediately, hands need to move away from the right shoulder down and forward getting wider. This results it more "lag" not less. The majority of people have the right arm way too bent and back halfway down and are generally the ones who end up with it straight at impact. Doesn't begin straightening fast enough or soon enough, so then they go "oops" the shoulder stops and they straighten it completely very late to get down to the golf ball.

 

 

Look how far his hands are from his right shoulder and how straight right arm is early

 

 

 

Now look at Phil. His hands don't move away from his rear shoulder in transition. His rear arm is straight at impact because it didn't start straightening soon enough fast enough. Which I know sounds crazy. But look at the 3rd photos in each sequence. Phil's rear shoulder works down early with his hands (why he looks narrow) but between the 2nd and 3rd photo his rear shoulder has stopped working down in an effort to get his hands down and away from the shoulder late. This shoulder stalling because his rear arms wasn't straightening soon enough is why it was too straight at impact.

 

 

 

Now compare Phil and Sergio in transition. Phil's rear arm is still bent 90* and hands haven't moved away from rear shoulder at all. Sergio on the other hand has his hands TWICE as far away from his rear shoulder and his right arm is bent maybe 120* at the point.

 

 

Sergio straightening the rear arm soon allowing it to get away from his rear shoulder allows his shoulder to turn FASTER through impact and his rear shoulder never stalls.

 

 

 

Same with Hogan. Hands moved away from rear shoulder immediately.

 

I like the way dan explains the right arm straightening in this thread.

It is not similar to what GG is teaching imo. This thread is a great read starting with this post on page 1.

[psufish]

It is a great thread, thanks for bumping it. And I completely and utterly misunderstood all of the fantastic info (especially from Dan) until Mike Emery's illustration of right arm straightening. Now it all makes way more sense... Stupid Game :)

[mikah]

You can't straighten the right arm too fast too soon. If the right arm is straight at impact rather than bent it's because shoulder stalled not because the arms are firing too fast. Right arm must begin straightening before wrist begin uncocking. Coming down immediately, hands need to move away from the right shoulder down and forward getting wider. This results it more "lag" not less. The majority of people have the right arm way too bent and back halfway down and are generally the ones who end up with it straight at impact. Doesn't begin straightening fast enough or soon enough, so then they go "oops" the shoulder stops and they straighten it completely very late to get down to the golf ball.

 

 

Look how far his hands are from his right shoulder and how straight right arm is early

 

 

 

Now look at Phil. His hands don't move away from his rear shoulder in transition. His rear arm is straight at impact because it didn't start straightening soon enough fast enough. Which I know sounds crazy. But look at the 3rd photos in each sequence. Phil's rear shoulder works down early with his hands (why he looks narrow) but between the 2nd and 3rd photo his rear shoulder has stopped working down in an effort to get his hands down and away from the shoulder late. This shoulder stalling because his rear arms wasn't straightening soon enough is why it was too straight at impact.

 

 

 

Now compare Phil and Sergio in transition. Phil's rear arm is still bent 90* and hands haven't moved away from rear shoulder at all. Sergio on the other hand has his hands TWICE as far away from his rear shoulder and his right arm is bent maybe 120* at the point.

 

 

Sergio straightening the rear arm soon allowing it to get away from his rear shoulder allows his shoulder to turn FASTER through impact and his rear shoulder never stalls.

 

 

 

Same with Hogan. Hands moved away from rear shoulder immediately.

 

 

Hogan moved his upper body as a unit:

both arms and shoulders, from the top.

At P5 his right elbow is still lower than his left elbow,(Hogans Slot) just as it was at the top of his BS.

[iteachgolf]

You can't straighten the right arm too fast too soon. If the right arm is straight at impact rather than bent it's because shoulder stalled not because the arms are firing too fast. Right arm must begin straightening before wrist begin uncocking. Coming down immediately, hands need to move away from the right shoulder down and forward getting wider. This results it more "lag" not less. The majority of people have the right arm way too bent and back halfway down and are generally the ones who end up with it straight at impact. Doesn't begin straightening fast enough or soon enough, so then they go "oops" the shoulder stops and they straighten it completely very late to get down to the golf ball.

 

 

Look how far his hands are from his right shoulder and how straight right arm is early

 

 

 

Now look at Phil. His hands don't move away from his rear shoulder in transition. His rear arm is straight at impact because it didn't start straightening soon enough fast enough. Which I know sounds crazy. But look at the 3rd photos in each sequence. Phil's rear shoulder works down early with his hands (why he looks narrow) but between the 2nd and 3rd photo his rear shoulder has stopped working down in an effort to get his hands down and away from the shoulder late. This shoulder stalling because his rear arms wasn't straightening soon enough is why it was too straight at impact.

 

 

 

Now compare Phil and Sergio in transition. Phil's rear arm is still bent 90* and hands haven't moved away from rear shoulder at all. Sergio on the other hand has his hands TWICE as far away from his rear shoulder and his right arm is bent maybe 120* at the point.

 

 

Sergio straightening the rear arm soon allowing it to get away from his rear shoulder allows his shoulder to turn FASTER through impact and his rear shoulder never stalls.

 

 

 

Same with Hogan. Hands moved away from rear shoulder immediately.

 

 

Hogan moved his upper body as a unit:

both arms and shoulders, from the top.

 

At P5 his right elbow is still lower than his left elbow,(Hogans Slot) just as it was at the top of his BS.

 

 

And? What does that have to do with anything. The right elbow should and will be under the left arm as right shoulder works down. That has literally zero to do with straightening the right arm. It's only the part below the elbow which moves. The right arm could be completely straight with the right elbow below the left. His hands begin moving away from his shoulders immediately. At p5 hands are further away from right shoulder than at the top of the swing.

[mikah]

And? What does that have to do with anything.

 

Ben Hogan moved his upper body. ie two arms, shoulders together from the top of BS to P5.

That was the Slot he wrote about in 5L.

 

That is what Ben Hogan moving his upper body (two arms and shoulders) as one unit from top of BS to P5 is about.

 

BTW, "as a unit" means relative distances remain the same.

 

 

(have you even watched and /or listened to Ben Hogans 'training' video?...

"letting your arms and hands FOLLOW")

 

He explains it very clearly, "what starts first from the top of the swing"".

 

one your students? At P5, left elbow is already lower than right elbow....

 

Thats the difference between what Hogan did and right arm straightening from the top of BS.

 

BTW, not making a judgment, just saying right arm straightening from the top of BS

is not what Ben Hogan did, not even close.

 

Ben Hogan at P6, with right elbow still below left elbow.

[iteachgolf]

And? What does that have to do with anything.

 

Ben Hogan moved his upper body. ie two arms, shoulders together from the top of BS to P5.

That was the Slot he wrote about in 5L.

 

That is what Ben Hogan moving his upper body (two arms and shoulders) as one unit from top of BS to P5 is about.

 

BTW, "as a unit" means relative distances remain the same.

 

 

(have you even watched and /or listened to Ben Hogans 'training' video?...

"letting your arms and hands FOLLOW")

 

He explains it very clearly, "what starts first from the top of the swing"".

 

one your students? At P5, left elbow is already lower than right elbow....

 

Thats the difference between what Hogan did and right arm straightening from the top of BS.

 

BTW, not making a judgment, just saying right arm straightening from the top of BS

is not what Ben Hogan did, not even close.

 

Show me a student of mine for any length of time with right elbow above the left. Find me one. JCs right elbow absolutely is not above his left at p5. You do realize I have that swing in 3D right?

 

I showed pictures that prove his hands are significantly further from his shoulder at p5 than they were at p4. You literally quoted them and prove yourself wrong. Hogan also felt his hips were 90* open at impact. I don't care what he thought he did. I care what he did.

[iteachgolf]

 

Which elbow is lower than which?