MD/VA/DC Golfers - Ten Seconds or Less

[eagle1997]

[eagle1997]

[jkc-rva]

jkc-rva, why are you shooting 107? If it's because you have a ton of 6 irons or more in to greens, move up. If it's because you are hitting 8 irons but shanking or fatting them, then skulling your chips and 3 putting, the length isn't the problem. I mean, moving up will have better scores in either case. But it's not the difference between an 89 at a 71.1/138 and 107 at 72.8/132. A big eye opener for me was when we did the red tee challenge awhile ago. It was paying 64.5/106 from 5200 yards and I shot something like 89 to put up a terrible terrible differential. That's a normal score for me from the blues, at 72.2/124 blues. I lost all my shots the same way I normally do: bad shots that were a complete waste of strokes from any distance.

 

Again, playing shorter is going to help scores in all cases. But it's probably equivalent to a 103 instead of 107, not 92 instead of 107.

It isn't issues off the tee. That 107 came from an especially windy day where the ball was literally getting affected on the green when putting. I had numerous 3 putts and two four putts. I did lose two balls due to me shanking them. It was an off day that only got worse after my frustrations from troubles on the greens. Back to reading Zen Golf to mellow me out (no joke).

 

I wish it was simply an issue of length, but on a non windy day (where I'm not teeing off into a headwind nearly every hole) I'm averaging 290 off the tee with the driver so a 6 iron would be a pretty long hole (my 6 iron is my 195 club). Most par 4s are driver and PW or less in. I actually used my GolfNow app GPS feature to play smart layups into all the Par 5s since I still don't know that particular course well.

 

I mainly asked because aside from it being extremely windy and frustrating, I was wondering if I should just be playing up one set of tees anyway.

 

JKC -

 

some famous golfer of yore (bobby jones? sam snead? ben hogan?) once said that he wouldn't let his students move back a tee box until they broke par from the most forward tees. sounds extreme, right? but just think about it. you'd develop touch and skill from the "scoring area" of the course. that skill hopefully would carry forward with you for the rest of your golfing days.

Makes sense. Playing from the Whites at Pendleton would totally change the course for me.

 

JKC -

 

some famous golfer of yore (bobby jones? sam snead? ben hogan?) once said that he wouldn't let his students move back a tee box until they broke par from the most forward tees. sounds extreme, right? but just think about it. you'd develop touch and skill from the "scoring area" of the course. that skill hopefully would carry forward with you for the rest of your golfing days.

 

I remember moving up to white tees about 2 years ago and still shooting the same or worse than the blue tees. It just goes to show that my wedge game was horrible in the 100 and less distance and something I needed to work on. TBH, I should probably play red tees until I can consistently shoot 80 or below.

My wedge game from less than 60 can be tough. I've been working on it a ton on the range. Especially when it is wet I have trouble with the "touch" shots that are less than 50-75%.

 

My wife just texted me saying I should practice today in the wet course conditions. I think she may be right.

[jkc-rva]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, guys. I'll be playing tees that match the course rating/slope of the tees I usually play at SCGC. I think that's the safe and smart way to attack new courses.

[TheCityGame]

[FAbb]

My wife just texted me saying I should practice today in the wet course conditions.

 

[SullGolf]

JKC -

 

some famous golfer of yore (bobby jones? sam snead? ben hogan?) once said that he wouldn't let his students move back a tee box until they broke par from the most forward tees. sounds extreme, right? but just think about it. you'd develop touch and skill from the "scoring area" of the course. that skill hopefully would carry forward with you for the rest of your golfing days.

 

I remember moving up to white tees about 2 years ago and still shooting the same or worse than the blue tees. It just goes to show that my wedge game was horrible in the 100 and less distance and something I needed to work on. TBH, I should probably play red tees until I can consistently shoot 80 or below.

 

In the same boat fellas. I may be losing some strokes off the tee, but I rack up A LOT more strokes gained about 60-yards in and on the green. Need to grind out short game this summer.

 

I'm going to go the opposite way with this one. For average players like us (and I'll toss in T.i.T., Boogs, and myself all in one pot as pretty close in ability), when are we ever even inside 60 yards with the chance to play those shots? Outside of par5s and really short par 4s, it's when we hit poor shots to begin with. Pros are what, 12 GIR on average (and higher on easier courses)? So they may only have 6 shots a round that are inside 60 yards but not on the green, and 5 of them are greenside I bet. Good players score better inside 60 yards for sure, but they also have far less times where they need to do so. Versus myself, I'll hit 3 GIR on a poor day and 10 on a really good day. So on days I'm not shooting well I'm giving myself at least 15 shots where I'm scrambling, and most of them are from worse than greenside.

 

So that's where I see how I shoot the same score on the red tees as the blues. It's not because my scoring inside 80 yards stinks and that's some exclusive category by itself that I need to work on. It's that my swing with a wedge stinks as much as my swing with an 7 iron, and my swing with a 4 iron off the tee stinks as much as my swing with the driver off the tee.

[jkc-rva]

Well, I definitely have an issue with touch less than 70 yards. My greenside chipping is pretty terrible too. When I struggle off the green, once I get to the green I'm kinda mind-f***** and sometimes it can throw off my confidence putting. We will see how I play today at SCGC.

[TheCityGame]

I had a conference call at 10. The callee had a fire alarm about 10:10. (literally, the fire-alarm went, "WhooooOOOOOOPPP. The building is on fire.") So we pushed the conference call to 11. I love those pre-programmed voices in society, like when the elevator talks to you. More robots.

[eagle1997]

For average players like us (and I'll toss in T.i.T., Boogs, and myself all in one pot as pretty close in ability), when are we ever even inside 60 yards with the chance to play those shots?

 

I'll hit 3 GIR on a poor day and 10 on a really good day. So on days I'm not shooting well I'm giving myself at least 15 shots where I'm scrambling, and most of them are from worse than greenside.

 

not to be completely facetious here, but anytime you miss the green and are scrambling.... those shots are less than 60 yards.

 

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

 

also: fabb avatar change FTW

[vtnerf]

Oh yeah, this is the new stance. #Citygaming is so 2014.

[TerpInTime]

For average players like us (and I'll toss in T.i.T., Boogs, and myself all in one pot as pretty close in ability), when are we ever even inside 60 yards with the chance to play those shots?

 

I'll hit 3 GIR on a poor day and 10 on a really good day. So on days I'm not shooting well I'm giving myself at least 15 shots where I'm scrambling, and most of them are from worse than greenside.

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

 

Exactly what I was implying. I could improve my GIR via better iron play, getting in better position off the tee, etc. But I think I would be saving 5-6 shots a round by not duffing chips, getting those approaches closer, and better lag putting to avoid three putts.

[therealsneek]

jkc-rva, why are you shooting 107? If it's because you have a ton of 6 irons or more in to greens, move up. If it's because you are hitting 8 irons but shanking or fatting them, then skulling your chips and 3 putting, the length isn't the problem. I mean, moving up will have better scores in either case. But it's not the difference between an 89 at a 71.1/138 and 107 at 72.8/132. A big eye opener for me was when we did the red tee challenge awhile ago. It was paying 64.5/106 from 5200 yards and I shot something like 89 to put up a terrible terrible differential. That's a normal score for me from the blues, at 72.2/124 blues. I lost all my shots the same way I normally do: bad shots that were a complete waste of strokes from any distance.

 

Again, playing shorter is going to help scores in all cases. But it's probably equivalent to a 103 instead of 107, not 92 instead of 107.

It isn't issues off the tee. That 107 came from an especially windy day where the ball was literally getting affected on the green when putting. I had numerous 3 putts and two four putts. I did lose two balls due to me shanking them. It was an off day that only got worse after my frustrations from troubles on the greens. Back to reading Zen Golf to mellow me out (no joke).

 

I wish it was simply an issue of length, but on a non windy day (where I'm not teeing off into a headwind nearly every hole) I'm averaging 290 off the tee with the driver so a 6 iron would be a pretty long hole (my 6 iron is my 195 club). Most par 4s are driver and PW or less in. I actually used my GolfNow app GPS feature to play smart layups into all the Par 5s since I still don't know that particular course well.

 

I mainly asked because aside from it being extremely windy and frustrating, I was wondering if I should just be playing up one set of tees anyway.

 

 

jkc-rva - IMO you should focus the most effort on eliminating 3 and 4 putts from your rounds. Not only working on putting, but chipping as well. The closer your chips/pitches/bunker shots are ending up to the hole the less risk there is of a 3-putt or worse.

 

My goal for this year is to have 30 putts or fewer in every round. Here is my logic:

 

Average of 7 GIR and make all pars = 14 putts

Get up and down 6/11 times = 6 putts

Two-putt bogey the rest of the time = 10 putts

Total = 30 putts

 

I am also working on eliminating lost balls from my round so that I am getting up and down for par and not double.

 

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with the practice!

[Golfer827]

JKC -

 

some famous golfer of yore (bobby jones? sam snead? ben hogan?) once said that he wouldn't let his students move back a tee box until they broke par from the most forward tees. sounds extreme, right? but just think about it. you'd develop touch and skill from the "scoring area" of the course. that skill hopefully would carry forward with you for the rest of your golfing days.

 

I remember moving up to white tees about 2 years ago and still shooting the same or worse than the blue tees. It just goes to show that my wedge game was horrible in the 100 and less distance and something I needed to work on. TBH, I should probably play red tees until I can consistently shoot 80 or below.

 

In the same boat fellas. I may be losing some strokes off the tee, but I rack up A LOT more strokes gained about 60-yards in and on the green. Need to grind out short game this summer.

 

Losing strokes in the long game and the putter, but short game is decent. Should probably move up a set.

[FAbb]

Sully might have misinterpreted the inside 60 yards comment, but he's making the right point. If you're a 15, you don't hit the ball well enough. I'm sure you could save strokes if you improved your short game. No argument there. However, your ballstriking is holding you back more than your short game at this point.

[SullGolf]

not to be completely facetious here, but anytime you miss the green and are scrambling.... those shots are less than 60 yards.

 

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

 

I get that, but my point is that those shots are not in isolation. You need to hit the shots that get you there. What I'm saying is that it's wrong to think "I had 15 scrambling opportunities and only got up and down 10%. If I just got up and down 50% like the pros, I'd save 7 shots!" Because a pro only has 6 chances instead of 15. So going from 10% to 50% of 6 shots is only 2-3 shots saved, while going from 15 scrambling chances to 6 saves 9 strokes. Similarly, I think it's wrong to think "if I just stopped 3 putting I'd save 4 strokes a round!" when in reality you are 3 putting because you are 40 feet from the hole instead of 25.

 

I'll add another related thing and say that I've never seen anyone that hits the ball like me, boogs, or T.I.T but has a stellar short game. Maybe they exist, but they are few and far between.

 

Let me sum it up in this one way that sounds contradictory: mid-cap players lose more shots in our short game due to a poor long game than due to a poor short game.

[Gmen1204]

Gotta agree with Sull.

[TerpInTime]

not to be completely facetious here, but anytime you miss the green and are scrambling.... those shots are less than 60 yards.

 

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

Let me sum it up in this one way that sounds contradictory: mid-cap players lose more shots in our short game due to a poor long game than due to a poor short game.

 

Fair. I've gone through about 4 or 5 swing maturations in the past 2 years. The poor ball-striking certainly carries much of the blame for playing off of a 16 right now.

 

I used to not care much about playing off a 16. I knew I took a long time away from the course. I knew there would be some growing pains. This is frustrating now.

[eagle1997]

valid.

 

 

i guess i see it through my own lens.

 

when i don't have my short game (scrambling, putting, sand), unless my ballstriking is really on point, i'm (pretty much) not breaking 80. i'm definitely not getting around par.

 

when i do have my short game going, i can go really low (for me) or i can save an ugly round from being awful. one of my favorite rounds last year was later in the year with fabb, DC and c.free. ball striking with the irons was godawful. i had these hogan blades in the bag and i couldn't hit them for shyte. driver was working, GW, around the greens, and putter was A+. 25 putts later, i walked off with a 76. zero chance that happens with my 'B' or 'C' short game.

 

 

when both ballstriking and short game is bad, i start questioning my sanity.

[mtn1414]

[Ocgolfrick]

not to be completely facetious here, but anytime you miss the green and are scrambling.... those shots are less than 60 yards.

 

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

 

I get that, but my point is that those shots are not in isolation. You need to hit the shots that get you there. What I'm saying is that it's wrong to think "I had 15 scrambling opportunities and only got up and down 10%. If I just got up and down 50% like the pros, I'd save 7 shots!" Because a pro only has 6 chances instead of 15. So going from 10% to 50% of 6 shots is only 2-3 shots saved, while going from 15 scrambling chances to 6 saves 9 strokes. Similarly, I think it's wrong to think "if I just stopped 3 putting I'd save 4 strokes a round!" when in reality you are 3 putting because you are 40 feet from the hole instead of 25.

 

I'll add another related thing and say that I've never seen anyone that hits the ball like me, boogs, or T.I.T but has a stellar short game. Maybe they exist, but they are few and far between.

 

Let me sum it up in this one way that sounds contradictory: mid-cap players lose more shots in our short game due to a poor long game than due to a poor short game.

 

Actually, they do exist. Play anybody over the age of 65 who has played golf for a while.

 

I'm serious.

 

We have match play at my club, and there is nothing worse than when I get matched up against one of these guys. You'll drive it past them at least 100 yards. You'll be on the green or close with your 2nd shot. They'll be not even within 100 yards of you then.

 

And then...

Boom. They 're on the green or just off.

 

And they get up and down EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

 

It a marvel to watch. Its like a clash of styles, and it gives me hope I'll be able to play this game when I'm older.

[GooseHook]

No matter what shape your long or short game is in, if you are talking about multiple 4-putts in a round nothing else will save you. IMO that should be the first thing addressed.

 

Want to see the limits of human frustration? Hit a green in regulation and make double.

[davechen]

 

 

 

Also hat hair. Hat hair is a big problem for mid-cap players.

[Puppetmaster]

No matter what shape your long or short game is in, if you are talking about multiple 4-putts in a round nothing else will save you. IMO that should be the first thing addressed.

 

Want to see the limits of human frustration? Hit a green in regulation and make double.

 

Don't forget the classic one chip/pitch + 3-putt. That's my specialty.

[FAbb]

Kent would like to weigh in on today's golf talk.

 

[Puppetmaster]

Too much logic and numbers for me to read any further. Need more memes and pictures. Heading out to get some enchiladas doused in extra cheese and saaawwwwssss.

[vtnerf]

not to be completely facetious here, but anytime you miss the green and are scrambling.... those shots are less than 60 yards.

 

i think T.i.T is saying anything inside 60 yards, including putting, chipping, short and long pitches and sand play.

 

I get that, but my point is that those shots are not in isolation. You need to hit the shots that get you there. What I'm saying is that it's wrong to think "I had 15 scrambling opportunities and only got up and down 10%. If I just got up and down 50% like the pros, I'd save 7 shots!" Because a pro only has 6 chances instead of 15. So going from 10% to 50% of 6 shots is only 2-3 shots saved, while going from 15 scrambling chances to 6 saves 9 strokes. Similarly, I think it's wrong to think "if I just stopped 3 putting I'd save 4 strokes a round!" when in reality you are 3 putting because you are 40 feet from the hole instead of 25.

 

I'll add another related thing and say that I've never seen anyone that hits the ball like me, boogs, or T.I.T but has a stellar short game. Maybe they exist, but they are few and far between.

 

Let me sum it up in this one way that sounds contradictory: mid-cap players lose more shots in our short game due to a poor long game than due to a poor short game.

 

Actually, they do exist. Play anybody over the age of 65 who has played golf for a while.

 

I'm serious.

 

We have match play at my club, and there is nothing worse than when I get matched up against one of these guys. You'll drive it past them at least 100 yards. You'll be on the green or close with your 2nd shot. They'll be not even within 100 yards of you then.

 

And then...

Boom. They 're on the green or just off.

 

And they get up and down EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

 

It a marvel to watch. Its like a clash of styles, and it gives me hope I'll be able to play this game when I'm older.

Beware the old guy in the 20 year old windbreaker. Partially because it still fits him, but mostly because he WILL get up and down from inside 20 yards 75% of the time. Comes from patience and experience. It's scary sometimes. And when you play against it, it's steady and constant. There are few surprises.

[GooseHook]

Or maybe what everyone's getting at is that to improve at golf, you can't neglect ANY aspects of the game?

 

Nahhhh, would make too much sense.

 

Side note, I'm hoping this rain on Saturday doesn't completely F up the clinic. Trying to get advice and work on your swing is tough enough in sunlight, pouring rain is going to hamper stuff that day.

[FAbb]

Kent has been checking your Game Golf driving distance stats, Sully. He's got some advice for you.

 

[SullGolf]

I was hoping everyone would ignore Hat Hair Sully in favor of Big Foot MTN, Disappointed FAbb, Frowning Winner Domes, and Smiling All the Time Kent.