Playing it down and putting it out

[vinniev]

How closely do you follow the rules? My observations

I was reading someone else's post on what they shot and it got me thinking about how everyone plays their rounds of golf, ie. putt out, up in the fairways, lost balls, etc. On one of the municipal courses I play, I see a lot of the golfers move the ball around, even in the rough. The fairways aren't so great there so we play it up in the fairways but how can you do that in the rough. That's what the rough is for. On some of the other courses I play, most people still play it up in the fairways even though the fairways are in great shape. Here are some things I've noticed with putting:

In the grip for some people is like three feet.
I especially think it's funny when someone makes a half-hearted attempt at a two footer, misses the putt, but doesn't count the stroke because "they would've made it if they tried".
If you putt it through your legs on a short putt and miss it, don't count the additional stroke because you weren't really trying. We were playing for money once and the guy misses a putt for bogey but still has four feet for double. Well, he picks up his ball with his putter and gives himself a double even though he never holed out. We were playing stroke play, mind you.

What are your thoughts/observations?

[rkruff]

USGA Rules all the time....Ball played down unless the Pro announces otherwise.

[hoganfan924]

If you aren't playing by the rules, you aren't playing golf, you are practicing golf. In stroke play I always hole out. Picking up 2' or 3' putts is a very bad habit to get into - see how many of those "gimmies" you miss when you are in a tournament or have a few bucks riding on it.

 

Rolling the ball is cheating, plain and simple. Teeing the ball up in the rough can make for a much easier shot than one from a tight lie in the fairway (especially in wet conditions). There is supposed to be a penalty for hitting it in the rough. Play it as it lies, always (unless allowed by the rules to move it such as embedded ball, casual water, etc.)! If you can't, take an unplayable and your penalty.

 

In order to avoid disagreements when in a betting game, it's best to agree before the round that all USGA (or R&A) rules are in effect. At that includes being "out of the hole" if you refuse to take the stroke & distance penalty for a lost ball (one of my pet peeves)

[g8a_golf]

I always play by the rules. the people i play with take so many mulligans its amazing. they average about mid 90s, but if you add all the real strokes, their average would be about 105+. the other day, i shot a 97 with 7 pars and no three putts, but my driving was WAY off, so in 11 holes, i was 25 over! if i took mulligans i would have had about an 84... i can't stand when i play with my grandfathers friends and i putt a 20 footer to three feet and they knock the ball away towards me and say "good par" it pisses me off and i tell them right away, and some guys are so amazed that i wanna actually play golf and not knock it around for 5 hours... now, i make it very clear on the 1st tee that i play by the rules and count every stroke and do NOT knock away tap-ins.

[JNewsted]

Well... sometimes, people just want to go knock it around, who cares if THEY DONT play by the official rules. They just go play- gimmies, loose interpretation of the rules. Cool with me! (Im sure theres been discussion on this many times before...)

 

As far as my game, I dont know the entire rule book inside and out. I TRY to go as strict as I can on the scoring. It doesnt always work. My group will do occasional gimmie putts. Im trying really hard to break that habit though. Other things- if we see a ball roll into some crappy area and KNOW it is in there but cant find it, we'll drop one in that same crap and just move on... usually only when there's groups that are waiting on ours. When playing more than just the casual round, we'll tighten up on that though.

[dmboak]

I usually play anything inside the length of the grip is good. Unraked sand can be raked and ball placed, balls that land in the fairway but within the divot of another player must be played as it lies. What else...oh yeah, instead of reteeing when you discover your ball is OB, you can take your tee shot distance and add 2 strokes so you're hitting 4 where you drop. Speeds things up that way.

[Golfdog]

We play everything down, but concede putts--especially those that have no immpact on the match. Most of the guys I play with also play state/regional tourneys, and no one misses the kind of putts that are conceded in our matches.

[Viking Golfer]

I have a cellular phone in my bag, a thermometer on the outside of my bag, a Golf GPS and a Laser Range finder (NO SLOPE) with me on the course - all these 4 things are against the rules in my country (only one (EDIT: Maybe two) club in the entire country allows the use of range finders such as GPS and Laser)

 

Should I dump them and play by the rules ?

 

I don't take gimmies, mulligans or things like that - but when I play with my friends, I don't play the ball from a bunker lie if I see a visible rock just in front of or behind the ball, I will remove the rock and play the shot. I will not ruin my Miura or other expensive clubs because the course manager or some other guy has placed rocks in the bunker, which will ruin & scratch the grooves on my clubs. NO WAY !

 

I played a shot from the bunker last week, and there was a small rock just in front of my ball - I should have removed it, because now I have a big scratch in my Miura 6 iron - because I followed the rules.

 

So maybe I practise golf and does not play golf - but no way in hell, I'll go to a course and not bring my cellular phone; neither will I smash my Miura irons down at rocks in the bunker if my ball lies in front of such a rock, knowing this will ding & scratch my expensive Miura clubs. If this is considered PRACTISING and not PLAYING golf, so be it.

 

PS I ALWAYS have my cellular phone on vibration alert - I don't use the phone on the course while playing, but I need it with me to check sms and emails every 2 hours or so).

[italianstallion]

Never "put it up" in the rough or fairway, unless it's winter rules for the fairways designated by the course or the rules official.

 

As for the 2-3 foot putt outs, I always putt those with my best effort. I've played with so many people who do what you described, and everytime I lag a putt within 4 feet, they always say "thats good." However, I always putt it out as if it were a tourny. If I make the putt, great, if I miss it, oh well, another stroke. I can't pick up a ball in my high school and junior tournys, so why would I do it when I practice?

 

In my mind, those 3 footers aren't as hard as every normal golfer makes them out to be.

[Diesel]

i play by all the rules when i can... always play the ball as it lies, unless it's casual water, or plugged in a fairway...

 

always hit 2nd tee shot if first one is questionable... if a ball i think was in play somehow is lost, i will go back to the box, if i can (sometimes not possible on a busy public course)... always putt out, never even pick up a 1 footer... i've missed a few of those, so i know there is no "gimme"...

 

a gimme by my friends definition is an agreement between 2 people that cannot putt... :(

[wwhitehead]

First of all, I prefer to play the ball down and to make all putts.

 

However, I played this weekend with a group that said (on the first tee) that all putts in the leather were good. Since our game was match play, everyone was essentially agreeing to concede all putts inside the leather throughout the round.

 

In other words, it can be done within the rules, I think.

 

WW

[Sean2]

I play by the rules so I can have an accurate handicap. However, I do agree if there is a large rock in a bunker or my ball is on a root I will move the rock or ball for safety purposes. Regarding the latter I will just take an unplayable and give myself a penalty stroke (in our local tournaments the Committee allows us to move large rocks from the bunker for safety purposes without penalty). Regarding the latter I'm not going to take the chance of hurting myself or ruining a club...I'll take the penalty instead. And I putt everything out...you never know. :-)

[norcalgolfer]

First of all, I prefer to play the ball down and to make all putts.

 

However, I played this weekend with a group that said (on the first tee) that all putts in the leather were good. Since our game was match play, everyone was essentially agreeing to concede all putts inside the leather throughout the round.

 

In other words, it can be done within the rules, I think.

 

WW

 

It is actually against the rules to do that. It goes against Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules).

 

Decision 1-3/2 (Agreement to Concede Short Putts) specifically addresses this:

 

1-3/2

Q. In a match, the two players agree in advance to concede all putts within a specified length. Is this contrary to Rule 1-3?

 

A. Yes. The players agreed to exclude the operation of Rule 1-1 and should be disqualified under Rule 1-3. Under Rule 2-4, the only stroke that may be conceded is the "next stroke" and it cannot be conceded in advance.

[norcalgolfer]

For handicap rounds (casual or tournament play) I try to stick to the following the rules very closely.

 

n casual rounds I am sometimes guilty of breaking the advice rule. Especially with my higher handicap friends. Tournament rounds I am very careful about advice and do not give or ask.

 

The other one during casual rounds is anything that will damage my club. If my ball is resting against a rock or something else that might damage my club and I do have a shot (ie if I wasn't worried about damaging my club I would be able to hit the shot, I will move my ball - most often this is hard pan with embedded pebbles). I won't move it if I don't have a shot (say it is between two rocks and there is no way to get a swing on it). Tournament rounds, I will take an unplayable in this circumstance if we are playing the ball down (no life/clean/place in effect).

 

The other one I will also do during a casual round is if I am going to max on the hole with respect to ESC, (say it is a par 4, and I put 3 balls O.B., I will just drop one in the fairway and play out, or just pick up). My score for the hole for handicap is going to be ESC. Tournament rounds I will play it out (I had 4 lost balls on one hole. That was a nightmare, shot a 13).

 

If money is involved, and I drop one in the fairway and play out (taking ESC for my score) I concede the hole.

 

Just for reference 60-75% of my rounds are what I consider tournament rounds (club tournaments, etc).

 

What others want to do when they play is their choice. I always putt out, I count all my strokes, I take my appropriate penalties. As long as we aren't playing for money or a fellow-competitor not following the rules isn't impacting me (ie casual round is fine, tournament round it is not okay).

[Furrankee]

Someone else mentioned this in another thread:

 

 

The pro at my club gave me these three rules to live by:

 

1. Play the ball as it lies

 

2. Putt everything into the hole

 

3. Leave the course in better shape than you found it

[thenewbie]

me and my normal partner ALWAYS putt out, unless its literally a couple inches away. the one thing we will do is give ourselves one single mulligan, off the tee, during each round. we are, however, slowly but surely weening ourselves off of this practice.

 

personally, I feel like I've cheated myself if I don't take my actuall score. sometimes I'll use the "I wasn't really trying" defense when I miss a 3 footer, but when I get back to the cart I almost always add the extra stroke. (unless we're being pushed by another group, then all bets are off) :(

 

I guess, when I tell anyone my score, I want to know that it's the score I truly earned. I suppose thats one of the big differences between someone who genuinely wants to improve and a weekend hacker.

[ronaldroettger]

I say big deal how people play as long as it doesn't affect your game. I regularily play with some 40-50 year old guys who don't 2 putt and won't give themselves any score over 9, just keep track in your head of your own score and tell them you putt out. They always seem to understand. I also play with a friend who likes to give himself mulligins and two uses of "the foot wedge" per round, I think its funny more than it is detrimental to the game.

 

If everybody had to play by the strict rules then half the people would quit playing and some more courses would close down due to lost revenue.

[vinniev]

One that really bothers me is the three-foot-miss-that-didn't-count-because-it-was-a-gimme-excuse or the through-the- legs-putt-from-three-feet which is funny if you make it but doesn't count if you miss it. Someone mentioned how some don't take the stroke and distance on a lost ball, which I've witnessed before and heard an explanation that went like this: "The pros never get this because they have spotters." I can kind of understand this explanation, but for me, it's easier to just rehit and take stroke and distance to avoid any guilt I'd feel if I shot a really good score after that.

 

It sounds like some of you go by strict USGA Rules while some of you have a looser interpretation of the rules. Considering the fact that our courses are not set up for PGA Tour competition, ie. unraked bunkers, questionable fairways, lack of ball spotters/gallery, etc. I can see someone's argument for a "loosening" of the rules in certain situations but I think it's important to get a ruling from your playing partners. Yes, this is key. Before being presumptuous, we should always confer with our playing partners to avoid any rules disagreements.

 

Now if someone is a 100 handicap, I don't care too much how they play because I want the game to be enjoyable for them. For them, it's just important to try and teach the rules and etiquette of golf. But if you're around my playing level and are planning to compare your score to mine, you should putt out. Last thing I want to hear from someone who took two mulligans, picked up four 3 foot putts, didn't take stroke and distance on a lost ball is, "Man, I almost beat you today." Yeah, right.

[wwhitehead]

First of all, I prefer to play the ball down and to make all putts.

 

However, I played this weekend with a group that said (on the first tee) that all putts in the leather were good. Since our game was match play, everyone was essentially agreeing to concede all putts inside the leather throughout the round.

 

In other words, it can be done within the rules, I think.

 

WW

 

It is actually against the rules to do that. It goes against Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules).

 

Decision 1-3/2 (Agreement to Concede Short Putts) specifically addresses this:

 

1-3/2

Q. In a match, the two players agree in advance to concede all putts within a specified length. Is this contrary to Rule 1-3?

 

A. Yes. The players agreed to exclude the operation of Rule 1-1 and should be disqualified under Rule 1-3. Under Rule 2-4, the only stroke that may be conceded is the "next stroke" and it cannot be conceded in advance.

 

Ah....well said. I stand corrected.

 

WW

[Konrad]

Hell, I'm all for the rules. Except if I lag a 55 foot putt to a foot, I'm not walking 55 feet back and forth when I'm never going to miss it. Anything inside of a foot is good to me, I don't really care who you are. If I have to make you putt out 12-inch putts to win, I've got better things to worry about. I think some of you may be spoiled with not moving it around in the fairways. Not everyone plays at a private course, you know. Rough is rough, okay. But the fairway is just that, fair. And hitting a perfect drive into a bald patch or a spot that the mower didn't get to isn't right.

[mcon22]

I suppose thats one of the big differences between someone who genuinely wants to improve and a weekend hacker.

 

Weekend hackers can genuinely want to improve too. Just because they're not afforded the luxury of playing every day, it doesn't mean they ain't trying. I'm arguing semantics, I know, but I find this implication somewhat bothersome. Anyway, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, and I'm just being a baby.

 

I shot my personal best (cough...94...cough) yesterday, and it was even more exciting knowing that I didn't take a single gimmie all day. That's something I'm trying my best to stick to these days. And also, limiting myself to one mulligan per round.

 

Oh, and I'm pretty new to the game, but when you guys say "playing it up" in the rough, are you talking about teeing it up? Could I possibly be understanding this right? I'm certainly no stranger to knocking my ball away from a root or something like that, but even I've never considered teeing it up from the rough. It's so crazy it's actually awesome.

[hoganfan924]

Oh, and I'm pretty new to the game, but when you guys say "playing it up" in the rough, are you talking about teeing it up? Could I possibly be understanding this right? I'm certainly no stranger to knocking my ball away from a root or something like that, but even I've never considered teeing it up from the rough. It's so crazy it's actually awesome.

 

No, usually when someone say's "teeing it up in the rough" or "playing it up in the rough" they're talking about someone rolling their ball to a nice fuffy patch of rough where the ball will sit up nicely and be easy to hit, not actually sticking a tee in the ground. However, I've heard some folks will encourage beginners to actually put the ball on a tee in the fairway and rough, although I've never seen it done.

 

This is one of my pet peeves in my weekly golf league. League rules allow rolling the ball anywhere (except hazards) so a few players regularly roll their ball while most do not. Of course they will roll their ball into the best spot available to hit it from which give a big advantage. Why should league rules be written to favor cheaters who are in the minority, I just don't understand it? (and yes, I've raised this issue several times with the guys on the league and just get a bunch of shoulder shrugging)

 

I've been starting to play in some tournaments in the last 3 years and playing rounds where you break the rules is a very bad habit to get into. Case in point - last year I was in a club Championship (stroke play) and one of my playing partners almost picked up his short putts 3 times, I had to tell him all three times just as he was reaching down to pick up the ball "Putt it out!" Fortunately, I was paying attention and could gauge his intent before he touched his ball, saving him from penalty strokes.

[iskysoma01]

I play by the rules, however after hitting a ball out of bounds try to go back to the tee box with a group alredy there on a busy day and see what happens.

[hoganfan924]

I play by the rules, however after hitting a ball out of bounds try to go back to the tee box with a group alredy there on a busy day and see what happens.

 

That's why when you have any suspicion that you might have hit one OB, you mark, declare, and play a provisional. If you hit one OB on a hole without realizing it on the tee, and don't take the stroke & distance, I hope you aren't posting that round for handicap.

[TexasAg]

[

This is one of my pet peeves in my weekly golf league. League rules allow rolling the ball anywhere (except hazards) so a few players regularly roll their ball while most do not. Of course they will roll their ball into the best spot available to hit it from which give a big advantage. Why should league rules be written to favor cheaters who are in the minority, I just don't understand it? (and yes, I've raised this issue several times with the guys on the league and just get a bunch of shoulder shrugging)

 

They're probably just tired of hearing you call people cheaters who by your own admission are just following the league rules. If it's allowed and it improves your score, why wouldn't you do it? It's a competition isn't it?

[jmc]

This post is reminding me of a fella I played with about 3 weeks ago. The greens on the course weren't great, but it is what it is. On the last hole, a 190 yard par 3, he hit it to the front fringe and had about 24 feet left to the hole. He his putt and it ended up just right of the hole about 3 mm from going in... It was a nice putt and I even congratulated him. He then says, "Since the greens are so crappy, I'm gonna give myself that one for a birdie." You should have seen the look of disgust on my face... heck, I wish I could have seen the look on my face.

 

The same sorta stuff had happened throughout the round, but that was the coup de gras. Needless to say, my "real" 82 got whooped by a "76." I was just so mad that he thought he had played a lot better than I did, when I know I had won by at least 4 strokes. Whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy.

 

I mean, why not just step up the tee, hit the green and say, "That was gonna go in, but because of the conditions it didn't... Woo-hoo! My 50th ace of the year!"

 

That being said, I do sometimes take a putt if it's within 8 inches. But if I hit it with my putter and miss, then that counts on the scorecard...

[vinniev]

I've never heard of anyone giving themselves a putt from that far out for that reason. I can't even understand the logic in that one. Now I have seen someone say that because the pin was placed in the hole right before he putted his three footer and missed, that the putt counted.

[Joe Schmoe]

Lets see the rules I bend... If I hit in the fairway i'm not playing a plugged ball, any significant mud on the ball, or from a divot. Off the fairway I play it as it lies unless club damage is likely. On the green I've been putting out.

Oh if the greens were just aerated(sp?) We say a maximum of 2 putts.

 

I don't get out enough to risk wrecking my clubs. And I don't hit enough fairways to take the random penalties of hitting out of divots in the fairway.

 

Oh and i see enough pro's complain about divot lies in the fairway I really think that rule needs to change. why are you penalized for hitting a good shot?

[mchepp]

This is a very interesting discussion amongst golfers. One side says they just want to play for fun and I would agree with them. Golf is a hard game, if they want to bump the ball or take a gimme it is fine with me. On the other hand, there are rules, and rules are made to be followed. In my group we play for what we think is a lot of money and to avoid arguments we play by the rules. On occasion we will break the advice rule, or some days we will concede putts, but usually that leads to heated arguments so our default is to play by the rules.

 

It is great to hear from everyone on this topic.

[belote]

I'm a rules guy, but, heres something for all of us to think about and remember when a 'cheater' pisses us off. Posting a round that is lower than what you actually deserve is only detrimental to yourself. Most tournaments at clubs use the handicap system as a way to make competition fair. Therefore, if you post 10 76's when they should be 82's, when you go shoot 82 in a tournament, your handicap is only going to make up for 4 strokes instead of 10, so its essentially your loss.

 

Also, people who sandbag or "forget" to post their ESC (equitable stroke control) score are worse cheaters than those who post too low of a score. If you have a low handicap and post anything more than bogey or double then it improperly inflates your handicap and gives you an edge in tournaments when that comes into consideration.

 

Everyone should understand the benefits of EVERYONE fairly using the USGA handicap system