Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[Reasonability]

A little 4th of July history.

 

Didn't know why our flag isn't supposed to touch ground - only knew it's not supposed to. I "may" have found the answer. Frankly I don't know for sure since I'm just putting two and two together. Maybe one of you guys knows what truly behind the flag not touching ground.

 

Turns out Francis Scott Key was a Baltimore lawyer. Because the British and American forces both had amassed large numbers of POWs, Key was assigned to row out to a boat filled with American prisoners and offer a one-for-one prisoner exchange. To which the British Admiral agreed to said exchange - but also promised it was academic. The Admiral explained that IF the American Flag, flying over the rampart at Fort Henry would be lowered, that would be taken as surrender to British rule. And, if that flag were not lowered, the entire flotilla of British Naval armament just over the horizon would be summonsed to bomb Ft. Henry until that flag was blown off the map. Ergo the POW exchange would (according to the Admiral) be academic since by dawn's light that flag would either be lowered in surrender - OR - it and everything around it would be leveled.

 

By nightfall the flag hadn't been lowered. The flotilla moved into position and guns were unleashed. For hours into the night the flag would be seen by the flash of bombs aimed at it. And this lasted until dawn when she still stood - tattered and leaning. Turns out men would see her falling and run to set her back upright, stepping right into the line of cannon fire to do so. As they died seeing to it, others, would carry away their bodies and take a turn making sure that flag didn't fall. As the daylight swept over Fort Henry, she stood tattered and leaning. Many died making sure she stood... and many cannons were fired right at it to make sure she fell.

 

As witness to it all, Francis Scott Key penned the National Anthem. (F. Scott Fitzgerald btw was a relative of Key for those who didn't know).

 

Maybe that's why we don't let the flag touch ground.

 

I suppose there's a fine line between political topics, and just reporting historical events. I dunno. I don't even know if what I'm advancing here holds water. Sometimes war stories get told and retold with a little more drama attached to it than actually happened.

 

All I know is we aren't supposed to let her touch ground, and figured "maybe" this little tale of history, and our anthem are all lined up. We can drink whatever kool-aid we want about what sucks in this old world, things that really bugs or annoys us, and spend a lot of energy trashing what we've become.... I'm for sure not remotely trying to drum up chit-chat that's going to get any of us banned.

 

Just lobbing something out there "maybe" worth hearing on the 4th of July. Sometimes, some things lead a guy like me to wish I'd paid more attention in history class. If I've stumbled on to what everyone but me knew by the time they were in the 5th grade, I did a lousy job of listening back in the day.

[Fellaheen51]

Independence Day well wishes to all the Grille patrons. Day at the lake planned (Sister's home), some grill'n, more hot with t-storms possible in the afternoon, maybe a game or two of dominos. Potato salad yet to be made this morning. Hazy lazy day planned.

 

Went out for some shoot and scoot golf yesterday. Played 12 holes before the heat (92* and muggy) kind of got to me. Not Fella's optimum golfing weather. But one has to go when the opportunity is there. There is a finite number of days that golf can be played in the north latitudes. Wouldn't be complaining if was February. Don't know how well I'd be able to tolerate it if every day was like this in the summer. I digress.

 

Had a very good ball striking day. Isn't that the case, no one around to watch or play against, one hits the ball pretty good. The i20's apparently have been listening to all the aspersions I have casting their way. Suddenly been cooperative. And hitting some pretty good shots with them. Became temporarily backed up my a threesome in front, so jumped back to a hole that I had just played. (Easy to do on this goat track, can survey the course easily. Wasn't busy). Dropped a couple of balls at the 150 mark, using a 7 iron, put both on the green. What the! Moved back to about 170, two more balls with a 6 iron, both ended up on the green. Double what the! Granted, the course is getting quite dried out and hard (very hot with little rain here for the last two weeks). Getting some roll out. But still. I don't hit 170'ish 6 iron shots. And straight to boot. Have to admit, they do "feel" quite nice when flushed. Almost forged like. Even had some decent short pitch shots. Executed like it's suppose to be done. Maybe that aspect of the game is beginning to show some signs of improvement.

 

Liking the new, used Tyne putter so far. The weight of the head is doing what I had hoped. Smoothed out the putting stroke. Especially with shorter putts. Simply dragging the head back, and releasing through the stroke, the head weight prevents waving it around. At least giving myself a chance to make a 5 footer. Heretofore, not been a big insert fan. But this one has a nice crisp feel to it, soft without being "mushy". Yet to play a meaningful round with it yet (league or the buds) so YTBD when under pressure. The shape is even beginning to grow on me. And yes, very easy to scoop the ball with the rear fangs.

 

Have a safe and relaxing holiday gentlemen.

 

P.S. Did someone mention hybrid iron sets? Currently FS. Cleveland Hi-Bore's (3, 5 - PW). These were part of the 'find' from back in May. Never hit a golf ball with them. They ugly. Apparently, there is a fair amount of interest in them. Up to 8 watchers, no bids yet though. Also, two Halo hybrids (22* and 28*) listed separately. Take my clubs, please.

 

 

[BIG STU]

Toj,I am with you ! I and my wife are looking out over a move to Florida...or possibly Santee,So. Carolina. We have gone there for many years

on vacation. We both think it may be time to go permanently. ,and spend what time we have left in the heat and sunshine .

What was that old saying?? Youth is wasted on the young ! My grandfather used that all the time......towards me..

 

Toj,I am with you ! I and my wife are looking out over a move to Florida...or possibly Santee,So. Carolina. We have gone there for many years

on vacation. We both think it may be time to go permanently. ,and spend what time we have left in the heat and sunshine .

What was that old saying?? Youth is wasted on the young ! My grandfather used that all the time......towards me..

I think my bud Randy ( Old School Rocker) from over on the Classic Golf and Golfers forum just moved up there from the James Island area which is around Charlestown. Nice area I pass around there in my working travels when going to Charlestown or Huger (Berkley).

[BIG STU]

Lynx Silver Lynx 2i still with lead tape adhesive visible #bigstu This was the longest club in my bag growing up, looking at it now the lie seems super flat, maybe that's why I hit it well?

Yep sometimes with the lesser lofted longer clubs you do better with a flatter lie. I set my personal clubs on lies by the way I hit them. Shoot if someone who does not know me would run my irons on a loft and lie machine they would say I am screwed up. I do not do what they call "progressive lies" on my stuff. I set them where they "sit good" for me to hell with progressive lie numbers. Most of my stuff except the wedges I could not begin to tell you the lies. Now on the wedges I am a stickler for being at 65* lie. I sold a guy onetime a set of KZG Zo blades I had been messing with. He was going to the PGM school and of course put them on a loft and lie machine. He and his instructor said that was one messed up set of irons. They proceeded to mess them up worse. They took them to my buddy the Miura dealer and talked trash about me. My friend who is an expert fitter and craftsman knows exactly what I do on my stuff. He told them after calling and conferring with me that those clubs were set "eyeball spec" for me. I learned my lesson I will never again sell anyone of my clubs that I have bent up for me. I will set them to published specs. I do not jack lofts on my stuff either If I need to get a little more out of a club I have been playing golf long enough I can deloft one and on the other hand I know how to open the face to take some off too

[BIG STU]

Hi friends. Happy 4th.

 

On the return trip, we drove through 100F temps today. Evidently 170 million folks under extreme heat right now. Played in mid 90s heat yesterday, Despite all efforts to stay hydrated and cool, my score was chasing the thermometer.

 

I 100% agree we sometimes score better than we play - and sometimes it's the other way around.

 

Bill, Florida not having state income tax is sure appealing. Santee is a beaut, too. Lots of golf options in both. Best of luck deciding.

 

Yes, Thug - employment law, including filing/collecting unemployment does vary somewhat by state. And termination with "cause" can in many states reduce or eliminate the ability to collect. Otherwise folks would throw fellow workers off of a cliff and file unemployment when fired for it. You are correct. The good news, the unemployment rate is so low it's far more possible now to find work of some kind or another. The bad news, options for more senior unemployed people.don't jive with the unemployment rate regardless of the 1967 ADEA. Funny how that works and rarely is any employer challenged on it.

 

Hybrids.... Here's a dumb question. Most of us remember or even owned the Adams Tight Lies clubs. Kinda "hybrid-like" up and down the set.

 

So if hybrids are "better" and "easier"... Why didn't Tight Lies clubs fully take over the golf market and effectively bury traditional "irons"????

 

It's not a loaded question. Just a question.

I was down that way yesterday in the big truck. I took a load of guide wire in the dump trailer to Savannah on a special deal. And yes it was as hot as Hades. I was loaded heavy right dead on the limit of 80,000 lbs gross. I left Dirty Myrtle around 3 AM to run down in the cool of the morning. Came back empty. Saw quite a few big trucks and campers on the side of I-95 with tire issues. Of course we do run good tires but we do run recaps on the trailers.

 

Yep I agree sometime we have a better ball striking day than the score reflects. It used to bug my old man because he was all about GIRs and Fairways that I shot some sub par rounds with only hitting par 3s and par 5s in regulation

[BIG STU]

I generally like my hybrids to fly high and land softly and have predictable yardages with them. I think

of them as iron replacements. If I need to advance my ball as far as possible, off the deck, then I'll hit

a 3 or 4 wood or if my ball is in a fluffy lie I may get gutsy and hit driver, lol.

 

Driver off the deck/rough is gutsy in my book! I don’t have that shot in the bag. I hear you on hybrids as iron replacements, before this I carried a 21deg Apex it was definitely longer than my 4i and was still and iron so to speak, and it played like one for me. The Rescue is playing a good bit different and like I mentioned I have no real experience with true hybrids so I am finding my way with this club. So far I am liking it as an “eraser” of sorts, helping me make up ground on a poor tee shot, or teeing off with on par 4s that dogleg or the like...? I’m sure as I play it more I’ll get a better feel for it’s capabilities but I’m liking it in the bag even with its limited role.

 

That Ping ball is awesome! What a great find especially in that condition. Yesterday I found a Pro V1x with the Trump International Golf Club logo on it...thought that was pretty interesting as I live in GA, I am always curious of the stories behind lost balls...

 

I recently got my first true hybrid, TM M1 rescue 19deg. I played one of the original Rescues from TM when they first came out but mine was a full on hook machine-interesting because at that time I hit every other club to the right..lol. I picked it up used from the classifieds and it came with two shafts- Kuro Kage HyS 80g, super high launch, a little loose for me but the ball flew high and landed softly, almost no roll out. Had to set the weight to the fade side to stop the hooks with this set up.

 

Next round out I stuck the other shaft in it, an Aldila Tour Blue in TM TP graphics 85g TX, does not appear to be a hybrid shaft. I kept the weight in the fade setting. Didn't get much range time with this set up, few balls after the round, but on the course this set up produced low bullets that rolled out extremely well. This set up was a hole saver twice when my drives hit tree branched and fell straight down. Both times I needed it it delivered a low launch shot that flew well and rolled out nicely. After the round I tried a few off a tee and got a mid-high flight with a little fade on it.

 

I feel like the best shaft for me, for this club, is somewhere between these two. If I had to stick with one of the above I think the low launch and run that the Tour Blue provided would help me most where I would need this club- botched tee shot recovery or second shot on a par 5. Of course the "Ho" in me already has another shaft inbound: Matrix Ozik Xcon Altus 80X so we will see what happens with that.

 

Is there a hybrid set-up you prefer? Fly high land soft? Low bullet that's so easy out of the rough? Or somewhere in between?

For me it is the fly high land soft since I still carry and hit long irons. Mine is mostly a pinpoint landing club for layups etc. I also like it out of fairway bunkers and hardpan lies near the edge of the fairway. I can hit the little bullet stinger with it but I can also do that with the 2 3 or 4 irons. If it is really windy here the hybrid will come out and one of my 2 irons will go in.

 

Nothing about my game is “pinpoint” ...lol...but I can see the usefulness of using it as you describe it. For me at the moment it’s just a bigger hammer than my Apex was...lol. With a new shaft inbound I hope to find a better mix of high and soft as well as low bullet when needed.

 

 

I remember watching a playing lesson on TGC with a champs tour player (forget who) and he was

demonstrating hitting that driver shot off the deck when the ball is teed up on a fluffy lie. It's not a

situation one may encounter all that often but he was saying if the ball is sitting up it's not that hard

of a shot. I definitely wouldn't try it on a tight lie but if the ball is practically teed up I'll do it sometimes

just for fun.

The only metal driver I can hit off the deck is the Homna I am bagging now. One of the reasons I am not carrying a 3 or 4 wood just that little hot V-Steel 5 wood. Now persimmon drivers most of them I could hit off the deck. In fact after I switched to metal woods in 02 or so on certain courses I would pull out the 3 wood and carry my Penna persimmon driver with the graphite shaft. Good lay up club for me on certain par 4s and good off the deck with a good lie.

[BIG STU]

But RAD...Being a Ping player...aren't those I 500's a nice looking club? Really look great...You know you want them...Come on..

Its ok to go all in one more time before retirement....get those.....

Then give all the rest of us a good review of them,before we jump in there ! :taunt:

 

I may at some point Bill. If I did it would probably be a short set 7-P and pair it up with hybrids. If I do

a full review will be posted here, lol.

 

I still like mid and long irons but not sure if they still like me. The last time I hit a 3 iron was when I was

playing with MC in Kentucky in 2016. Hit a beauty to reach a par 5 in 2 and made birdie. I'm not sure

I could hit that shot now. I hit it with that Mac 3 iron. In my mind I still think I can.....but the body....well

it hasn't expressed it's opinion lately since I haven't been playing.

Something that is mind boggling--- Those 2013 forged Cally X irons I have I never could hit the 3 4 and 5 irons worth a hoot but can hit any of my Hogans or Macs fine. At one time I was carrying a dammed odd combo set PW thru 6 iron Callys 3 4 and 5 Forged VIP blades and a certain Hogan 2 iron. Then I built those VIPs that Mitchell sent me. Ain't going back. I will keep the Callys because Bear gave them to me. Debating right now on which set I am going to put the tuned R-300s I pulled from a Snake Eyes set. Either the MP-68s or the Callys or the 58 Macs--- Decisions Decisions Decisions

[Spooky67]

I still like mid and long irons but not sure if they still like me. The last time I hit a 3 iron was when I was

playing with MC in Kentucky in 2016. Hit a beauty to reach a par 5 in 2 and made birdie. I'm not sure

I could hit that shot now. I hit it with that Mac 3 iron. In my mind I still think I can.....but the body....well

it hasn't expressed it's opinion lately since I haven't been playing.

 

I bet the long iron swing is still there for sure. That shot from 2016 is proof. Keep pulling the long irons out and they will reward you!

 

Hybrids.... Here's a dumb question. Most of us remember or even owned the Adams Tight Lies clubs. Kinda "hybrid-like" up and down the set.

 

So if hybrids are "better" and "easier"... Why didn't Tight Lies clubs fully take over the golf market and effectively bury traditional "irons"????

 

It's not a loaded question. Just a question.

 

Not sure, I actually don't find them easier to hit. The Silver Lynx set I played was basically a hybrid-ish set and they were never popular...actually my set was the only set I have ever seen in person. I may hit eBay and track down a set. I wish I still had that original set. I think the reason hybrid sets haven't taken over is that they aren't actually better for most golfers, if they were then they would have taken over IMO.

 

. The i20's apparently have been listening to all the aspersions I have casting their way. Suddenly been cooperative. And hitting some pretty good shots with them.

 

I 100% believe that clubs respond like people. If the i20s heard you talking bad about them, I'm sure they did get it together. I have no problem putting a bad putter in the trunk of a car on a hot summer day and you know what....it usually acts right when I rescue it from the hot trunk...lol. I have a friend that carries two putters, one that he likes to use and another just so the gamer doesn't get too comfortable! LOL!

 

Debating right now on which set I am going to put the tuned R-300s I pulled from a Snake Eyes set. Either the MP-68s or the Callys or the 58 Macs--- Decisions Decisions Decisions

 

Love those tinkering decisions. MP-68s are awesome, I'd go with those.

[Reasonability]

It's good fun to read what you gents have experienced with sticks and shafts. I so clearly remember my big brother and dad telling me as a kid that by clubs were never a reason for bad shots... insinuating it was all about the Indian and never the arrow.

 

It was a different time back then. What I was told as a youngster was what 99% were told. The result is I tried different irons now and then but the list of irons I gamed is countable on one hand. Have experimented a little here and there - bought the occasional lone 6-iron on EBay to test some things, but I personally just don't have a vast array of various clubs I've gamed, then changed, then changed back. I admire those who can do that. Perhaps the worst thing that can happen to me is to shoot a super-good round with a set. LMAO, once that happens it's going to be years before I'm thinking seriously about changing them.

 

I confess however that over the years, it was a LONG time before finding a driver I fully trusted. And Wedges??? Those things turn me into a sailor hitting port as they proposition me. Wedges are little prostitutes and they can spot me from a mile away!

 

Spooky, I tend to "think" you make a good point about hybrids. I sorta-kinda think they "can" be the right stick in the right situation versus being a wholesale replacement for all irons, all of the time. I'm a long way from being an expert on them and therefore in a better position to ask dumb questions like I did versus making statements about them. Own one and it comes out a few times a year - preferring most of the time to fill that gap with my 5 metal. So dumber than a stump here when it comes to them in all honesty.

[tolmij]

It's good fun to read what you gents have experienced with sticks and shafts. I so clearly remember my big brother and dad telling me as a kid that by clubs were never a reason for bad shots... insinuating it was all about the Indian and never the arrow.

 

It was a different time back then. What I was told as a youngster was what 99% were told. The result is I tried different irons now and then but the list of irons I gamed is countable on one hand. Have experimented a little here and there - bought the occasional lone 6-iron on EBay to test some things, but I personally just don't have a vast array of various clubs I've gamed, then changed, then changed back. I admire those who can do that. Perhaps the worst thing that can happen to me is to shoot a super-good round with a set. LMAO, once that happens it's going to be years before I'm thinking seriously about changing them.

 

I confess however that over the years, it was a LONG time before finding a driver I fully trusted. And Wedges??? Those things turn me into a sailor hitting port as they proposition me. Wedges are little prostitutes and they can spot me from a mile away!

 

Spooky, I tend to "think" you make a good point about hybrids. I sorta-kinda think they "can" be the right stick in the right situation versus being a wholesale replacement for all irons, all of the time. I'm a long way from being an expert on them and therefore in a better position to ask dumb questions like I did versus making statements about them. Own one and it comes out a few times a year - preferring most of the time to fill that gap with my 5 metal. So dumber than a stump here when it comes to them in all honesty.

 

I use a hybrid instead of fairway woods, cannot somehow hit a wood, they go anywhere but straight but my hybrid always goes well.

 

 

Happy 4th to you all, enjoy the day.

[tolmij]

I find the talk about heads, shafts, weights and all the other technical information fascinating, spent over 10 years on the other site and the majority of conversations were totally about reducing handicap, they would carry on for weeks discussing why was my last game not so good, posting about a reduction of 0.1 in their handicap, boasting about how that meant they were on the way to par, only to complain the next week about a 0.2 blowout. Several of them posted in fine detail asking how could I improve, detail all their games, every single stroke, boring to say the least.

 

It seems to me the Grillers have got it correct, equipment to suit the individual has to be of prime concern as none of us will play exactly the same, It was similar to my Judo coaching days, we taught everyone the same basic techniques but then had to fine tune the movement to suit the individual body type, mental atttide etc, I cannot see how golf is any different, we are not all from the same mould and individual characteristics must make a massive difference in the way we strike the ball.

[Conrad1953]

I heard an interesting tip from Travis Fulton on the radio the other day. We all talk about shaft lean at impact

with irons and there are many ways to get there. Bowed/flat lead wrist is one way; maintaining the trail wrist

set is another. Trying to bow my lead wrist leads to bad things for me so I've been one to hang on to the trail

wrist set and be careful to maintain it and not flip going through.

 

For some, perhaps, the focus on the wrists can be problematic and lead to bad things happening. So Travis

tells golfers to focus on the elbows instead and just bump the trail elbow toward the lead elbow coming down.

If you try it you quickly see how it puts your wrists into a good impact position (without having to think about

the wrists).

 

It's funny how we are all after the same impact position with our hands/wrists but we find different routes and

thoughts to get there. For some the "knuckles down" approach with the lead hand is money. For others that

thought may cause them to dig a deep trench and maybe injure their lead wrist (which I did many years ago).

I've had better success focusing on maintain my trail wrist set (cupped) and "holding off" the face as some

call it through impact and swinging left.

 

Not sure if I would try Travis's tip with the elbows but it sure seems like it would be an easy fix for some who

struggle trying to flatten/bow that lead wrist at impact. I think this is what good teachers, like Reasy, will do.

They can come up with various mental pictures and find what works best with an individual golfer. Travis's

elbows focus I think is probably better for most than a knuckles down approach.

 

Anyway, just thought I would toss this bit out there and see what approaches Grillsters use to get the pro like

impact with irons we all covet. I imagine for some it's no longer a thought or focus as they have long ago

grooved a good iron impact and probably don't think about it much anymore. I'm always thinking, lol, which

may not be a good thing.

[Conrad1953]

I hope everyone had a great 4th. I heard today about the Nathan's hot dog eating championship. I didn't know

there was one but I shouldn't be surprised. All sorts of eating contests all over.

 

I forget the guy's name that won but he's a real champ; having won 5 of the past 6. He won this time by eating

….……………………….74 hot dogs in 10 minutes. The 2nd place guy ate 45. They didn't say whether there

were buns involved. If so that's just crazy...…………………….7.4 hot dogs a minute. I wish I could remember

this guys name so I could google him and see what he looks like. I'm picturing some giant but that may not be

the case.

[BIG STU]

I hope everyone had a great 4th. I heard today about the Nathan's hot dog eating championship. I didn't know

there was one but I shouldn't be surprised. All sorts of eating contests all over.

 

I forget the guy's name that won but he's a real champ; having won 5 of the past 6. He won this time by eating

….……………………….74 hot dogs in 10 minutes. The 2nd place guy ate 45. They didn't say whether there

were buns involved. If so that's just crazy...…………………….7.4 hot dogs a minute. I wish I could remember

this guys name so I could google him and see what he looks like. I'm picturing some giant but that may not be

the case.

Naaw he is a little guy I have seen it on TV before and I can not honestly remember if there is a bun involved or not

[BIG STU]

I heard an interesting tip from Travis Fulton on the radio the other day. We all talk about shaft lean at impact

with irons and there are many ways to get there. Bowed/flat lead wrist is one way; maintaining the trail wrist

set is another. Trying to bow my lead wrist leads to bad things for me so I've been one to hang on to the trail

wrist set and be careful to maintain it and not flip going through.

 

For some, perhaps, the focus on the wrists can be problematic and lead to bad things happening. So Travis

tells golfers to focus on the elbows instead and just bump the trail elbow toward the lead elbow coming down.

If you try it you quickly see how it puts your wrists into a good impact position (without having to think about

the wrists).

 

It's funny how we are all after the same impact position with our hands/wrists but we find different routes and

thoughts to get there. For some the "knuckles down" approach with the lead hand is money. For others that

thought may cause them to dig a deep trench and maybe injure their lead wrist (which I did many years ago).

I've had better success focusing on maintain my trail wrist set (cupped) and "holding off" the face as some

call it through impact and swinging left.

 

Not sure if I would try Travis's tip with the elbows but it sure seems like it would be an easy fix for some who

struggle trying to flatten/bow that lead wrist at impact. I think this is what good teachers, like Reasy, will do.

They can come up with various mental pictures and find what works best with an individual golfer. Travis's

elbows focus I think is probably better for most than a knuckles down approach.

 

Anyway, just thought I would toss this bit out there and see what approaches Grillsters use to get the pro like

impact with irons we all covet. I imagine for some it's no longer a thought or focus as they have long ago

grooved a good iron impact and probably don't think about it much anymore. I'm always thinking, lol, which

may not be a good thing.

You said it all in the last paragraph. I get good impact but I have never considered myself a good ball striker. IMHO if one gets to thinking about mechanics too much you will be so tense you can not hit a ball period.

[BIG STU]

I find the talk about heads, shafts, weights and all the other technical information fascinating, spent over 10 years on the other site and the majority of conversations were totally about reducing handicap, they would carry on for weeks discussing why was my last game not so good, posting about a reduction of 0.1 in their handicap, boasting about how that meant they were on the way to par, only to complain the next week about a 0.2 blowout. Several of them posted in fine detail asking how could I improve, detail all their games, every single stroke, boring to say the least.

 

It seems to me the Grillers have got it correct, equipment to suit the individual has to be of prime concern as none of us will play exactly the same, It was similar to my Judo coaching days, we taught everyone the same basic techniques but then had to fine tune the movement to suit the individual body type, mental atttide etc, I cannot see how golf is any different, we are not all from the same mould and individual characteristics must make a massive difference in the way we strike the ball.

You nailed it in the last paragraph that has always been my golf philosophy. One of the reasons I never was or wanted to be an instructor. BTW do not know if I told you this but I did do Judo for a couple of years when I was a kid got to Green Belt.

[tolmij]

I find the talk about heads, shafts, weights and all the other technical information fascinating, spent over 10 years on the other site and the majority of conversations were totally about reducing handicap, they would carry on for weeks discussing why was my last game not so good, posting about a reduction of 0.1 in their handicap, boasting about how that meant they were on the way to par, only to complain the next week about a 0.2 blowout. Several of them posted in fine detail asking how could I improve, detail all their games, every single stroke, boring to say the least.

 

It seems to me the Grillers have got it correct, equipment to suit the individual has to be of prime concern as none of us will play exactly the same, It was similar to my Judo coaching days, we taught everyone the same basic techniques but then had to fine tune the movement to suit the individual body type, mental atttide etc, I cannot see how golf is any different, we are not all from the same mould and individual characteristics must make a massive difference in the way we strike the ball.

You nailed it in the last paragraph that has always been my golf philosophy. One of the reasons I never was or wanted to be an instructor. BTW do not know if I told you this but I did do Judo for a couple of years when I was a kid got to Green Belt.

 

 

Well done Stu, not a popular sport because it requires effort, good sport for balance and mental toughness, exactly the way I have always imagined you to be.

[BIG STU]

I find the talk about heads, shafts, weights and all the other technical information fascinating, spent over 10 years on the other site and the majority of conversations were totally about reducing handicap, they would carry on for weeks discussing why was my last game not so good, posting about a reduction of 0.1 in their handicap, boasting about how that meant they were on the way to par, only to complain the next week about a 0.2 blowout. Several of them posted in fine detail asking how could I improve, detail all their games, every single stroke, boring to say the least.

 

It seems to me the Grillers have got it correct, equipment to suit the individual has to be of prime concern as none of us will play exactly the same, It was similar to my Judo coaching days, we taught everyone the same basic techniques but then had to fine tune the movement to suit the individual body type, mental atttide etc, I cannot see how golf is any different, we are not all from the same mould and individual characteristics must make a massive difference in the way we strike the ball.

You nailed it in the last paragraph that has always been my golf philosophy. One of the reasons I never was or wanted to be an instructor. BTW do not know if I told you this but I did do Judo for a couple of years when I was a kid got to Green Belt.

 

 

Well done Stu, not a popular sport because it requires effort, good sport for balance and mental toughness, exactly the way I have always imagined you to be.

Thanks man. My lifelong friend who is 1/2 Japanese was big into judo for years. He won a lot of tournaments when he was young. In fact when he was 12 he was #3 in the nation. Wish now I had stayed into it longer for the discipline which I needed in my early and mid 20s. I never had good balance though still do not. One of the reasons I do the foot shuffle when playing golf or happy feet as they call it now. But now that I think about it even though I move my feet I DO keep my balance throughout the swing.

[Fellaheen51]

I hope everyone had a great 4th. I heard today about the Nathan's hot dog eating championship. I didn't know

there was one but I shouldn't be surprised. All sorts of eating contests all over.

 

I forget the guy's name that won but he's a real champ; having won 5 of the past 6. He won this time by eating

….……………………….74 hot dogs in 10 minutes. The 2nd place guy ate 45. They didn't say whether there

were buns involved. If so that's just crazy...…………………….7.4 hot dogs a minute. I wish I could remember

this guys name so I could google him and see what he looks like. I'm picturing some giant but that may not be

the case.

 

Joey Chestnut is 'Da Man in competitive hot dog eating. The JN, Babe Ruth, Michael Jordon of his sport (?). New world record of 74. No buns.

[Fellaheen51]

I find the talk about heads, shafts, weights and all the other technical information fascinating, spent over 10 years on the other site and the majority of conversations were totally about reducing handicap, they would carry on for weeks discussing why was my last game not so good, posting about a reduction of 0.1 in their handicap, boasting about how that meant they were on the way to par, only to complain the next week about a 0.2 blowout. Several of them posted in fine detail asking how could I improve, detail all their games, every single stroke, boring to say the least.

 

It seems to me the Grillers have got it correct, equipment to suit the individual has to be of prime concern as none of us will play exactly the same, It was similar to my Judo coaching days, we taught everyone the same basic techniques but then had to fine tune the movement to suit the individual body type, mental atttide etc, I cannot see how golf is any different, we are not all from the same mould and individual characteristics must make a massive difference in the way we strike the ball.

You nailed it in the last paragraph that has always been my golf philosophy. One of the reasons I never was or wanted to be an instructor. BTW do not know if I told you this but I did do Judo for a couple of years when I was a kid got to Green Belt.

 

 

Well done Stu, not a popular sport because it requires effort, good sport for balance and mental toughness, exactly the way I have always imagined you to be.

Thanks man. My lifelong friend who is 1/2 Japanese was big into judo for years. He won a lot of tournaments when he was young. In fact when he was 12 he was #3 in the nation. Wish now I had stayed into it longer for the discipline which I needed in my early and mid 20s. I never had good balance though still do not. One of the reasons I do the foot shuffle when playing golf or happy feet as they call it now. But now that I think about it even though I move my feet I DO keep my balance throughout the swing.

 

Fall prey to 'happy feet' syndrome every now and again. A thing that I've been cognizant of and trying to correct. But it still occurs occasionally. A bud, close friend for 50+ years, calls it my Billy "White Shoes" (Johnson) move when the funky chicken shows up while playing with him.

 

Reason offered the alignment stick under the arches tip a few pages back as a balance practice drill. Forgot about that the last time I went to the range.

[Fellaheen51]

I heard an interesting tip from Travis Fulton on the radio the other day. We all talk about shaft lean at impact

with irons and there are many ways to get there. Bowed/flat lead wrist is one way; maintaining the trail wrist

set is another. Trying to bow my lead wrist leads to bad things for me so I've been one to hang on to the trail

wrist set and be careful to maintain it and not flip going through.

 

For some, perhaps, the focus on the wrists can be problematic and lead to bad things happening. So Travis

tells golfers to focus on the elbows instead and just bump the trail elbow toward the lead elbow coming down.

If you try it you quickly see how it puts your wrists into a good impact position (without having to think about

the wrists).

 

It's funny how we are all after the same impact position with our hands/wrists but we find different routes and

thoughts to get there. For some the "knuckles down" approach with the lead hand is money. For others that

thought may cause them to dig a deep trench and maybe injure their lead wrist (which I did many years ago).

I've had better success focusing on maintain my trail wrist set (cupped) and "holding off" the face as some

call it through impact and swinging left.

 

Not sure if I would try Travis's tip with the elbows but it sure seems like it would be an easy fix for some who

struggle trying to flatten/bow that lead wrist at impact. I think this is what good teachers, like Reasy, will do.

They can come up with various mental pictures and find what works best with an individual golfer. Travis's

elbows focus I think is probably better for most than a knuckles down approach.

 

Anyway, just thought I would toss this bit out there and see what approaches Grillsters use to get the pro like

impact with irons we all covet. I imagine for some it's no longer a thought or focus as they have long ago

grooved a good iron impact and probably don't think about it much anymore. I'm always thinking, lol, which

may not be a good thing.

 

No "grooved swings" here. Swings trend towards a singular event, with the next being one I'm unfamiliar with. Both good and bad.

 

Have had to shelve the wrist cup business I was fooling around with awhile back. Began to "think" about the wrist and the release, and started yanking to many shots to the left. Now back to "whatever happens with the wrists, happens" position. Think there is some degree of naturally occurring cupping going on, kind of feel it, sorta has to happen, but not positive. Since I cannot see what's occurring.

 

Don't know if 'bumping the elbow' is the same as tucking in the trail elbow. But the latter is something I've been trying to become more cognizant of. Especially, as I attempt to get the feel for driving down and through the back of the ball with iron in hand. Tucking in the elbow, just a bit, seems to facilitate this move. Do this funny looking pre-shot routine where I get the feel for tucking the right elbow onto my rib cage. Doesn't stay there during the swing, but least I'm trying to get the sense of tightening up the elbow position rather than having it flying around "chicken wing" style. If I get to OTT, the elbow flies out. Keeping to a flatter swing plane, easier to keep the trail elbow better positioned. Or so it seems.

 

Perhaps one of the reasons why the i20's have been performing a little better of late. Steepening the angle of attack, trying to move away from a "sweepers" swing. Thus, the dreaded Ping bounce is put to use rather than being a detriment.

 

A big IDK to all of this. Seemingly, been trying a little of this, some of that this season. But some swing thoughts that have been rolling around in my head as I continue to putz with trying to improve ball striking.

 

Edit add after contemplation: Somewhat related side note. Not that anyone cares two hoots, but I'm feeling confessional. Wish I didn't have this real phobia towards taking some lessons. Find a Pro of my very own. Problem is some that I've crossed paths with are jackwagons, impressed with their own self importance. (Yes, gross characterization.) But more than willing to take your C-note.

 

The fear resides in revealing how I swing to someone knowledgeable, and it's determined that "It's pitiful" and need to start rebuilding it. Perhaps watching a vid and realizing it's pitiful. Bursting all sorts of preconceived bubbles. That this plodding along with a DIY approach when I don't really know much about the D part is dumb. A very real case of stage fright. But it's sorta like going to a chiropractor. Once you start, one seemingly doesn't ever stop going. (With no offense to anyone that realizes benefit from their services.) So I continue muddling along trying to play my best. And like it.

[Conrad1953]

Fella, I think tucking in the trail elbow is another way of saying it. When you do it you can see the lead wrist

flatten/bow as the trail wrist cups more. According to Travis this works much better for most folks than trying

to focus on the wrists. I would agree from my perspective.

 

And the good thing is this sets forth a chain of good things downstream, the good wrist position being one

and I would think a diminished tendency to flip at impact by just letting that trail elbow go with the body on

around to the left (for a right hander).

 

A big key for me, and I imagine for many, is to keep that upper body moving all the way around to the finish

and not stop before impact and throw the arms/hands at the ball...….nice to just keep everything moving

together and let the ball get caught up in it.

 

It's quite a few pages back now but that video Scotee posted of his swing is a good illustration of doing this

really well. That was one smooth well connected swing he posted. He gets easy power out of it too as I have

seen it in action.

[Reasonability]

You guys have no idea the restraint I'm exercising right about now. LOL!!!!!

 

Every fiber in my body is itching to comment on this every spec of this stuff. But I respect you gents. You play this game just like I play it. You experience it YOUR way. You carve out and explore things - VERY COOL THINGS - that allow YOU to find your own way and you're having fun doing it. The last thing anyone needs is for me to flood you with what my journey has taught me. And if I drop trou and start ranting, I know I'll lose your attention and respect.

 

All I can say out loud at the moment is this stuff is as good as it gets. You're plowing that field where you at least TRY - where you uncover subtle but all important little bits and pieces of what amounts to feeling confident in your setup, your grip, and anticipating what the upcoming motion is going to feel like... all so you can relax out there and "let" it happen. There's ZERO wrong with peeling back the onion and exploring what tends to happen (repeatedly and therefore consistently) once you do little things with your grip, your trail elbow, your feet, etc.

 

I've died and gone to heaven. I get to hear golfers explore. Doesn't get any better.

 

I've died and gone to hell. I know the better part of valor is to give you a wide berth and hold my rants about what I personally think/believe about all of it to a minimum. Doesn't get any worse! lol

[scotee]

Not a bit of P this or that here. No talk of power accumulators. No talk of flying wedges or pronation or lag or shaft lean or spin loft. No talk at all :) (not that there is anything wrong with that)

 

 

I should watch this one before I go play. Prolly a Conrad fav too. A Geoff Jones student. I see a lot of Ballard thinking here too.

[Conrad1953]

 

Not a bit of P this or that here. No talk of power accumulators. No talk of flying wedges or pronation or lag or shaft lean or spin loft. No talk at all :) (not that there is anything wrong with that)

 

 

 

 

I should watch this one before I go play. Prolly a Conrad fav too. A Geoff Jones student. I see a lot of Ballard thinking here too.

 

 

Ah, yes great stuff! Simplicity...…..I like and you know I'm a fan of Geoff Jones; who BTW learned to teach

under Jimmy Ballard. I have Ballard's one and only book and still read it now and then. Had read it before

I happened onto the epic 9-3 thread in I and A so I had some mental prep for Geoff's ideas.

 

I like watching that video of Geoff's student......and some of his other students. It's seems so long ago now

when Geoff was posting here at WRX. A good teacher who did not want to waste effort arguing with some

of the goofballs in I and A any longer.

 

A good idea to watch that video before playing.

 

I think I may have seen that first video before too. I may need to be thinking about a "senior" swing before

long, lol. When I pick the sticks back up and start playing again I'll soon find out.

 

Hey Reasy, don't hold back. A lot of us enjoy the swing talk and I think benefit from it. And I think it's good to

post videos and illustrations as sometimes they can get across ideas that can be difficult to get across by

words alone. I know I am a visual learner and like to "see" things to process them better.

 

I think when I am retired and playing again I will want to post some videos demonstrating things I am working

on in my swing to get feedback from all of you. I hope others will do it too. The way I see it we are all here for

each other; to help each other out. No egos just good fun and hopefully better golf.

[Spooky67]

For some the "knuckles down" approach with the lead hand is money. For others that

thought may cause them to dig a deep trench and maybe injure their lead wrist (which I did many years ago).

I've had better success focusing on maintain my trail wrist set (cupped) and "holding off" the face as some

call it through impact and swinging left.

 

I'm always thinking, lol, which may not be a good thing.

 

IMO thinking is ALWAYS a good thing...we may get in our own way at times but keeping the ol' noodle involved is a plus in my book.

 

I have worked a little on knuckles down, or bowing the lead wrist, or as you mentioned cupping the trail. My ingrained swing flaw is over rotating the lower body early, getting my arms trapped behind and fanning through the ball..or worse. So after practicing supinating the lead arm a bit my ball striking improved dramatically. Over the next few rounds it left me- I think I started creeping closer and closer to the ball..? and started shanking the ball. I'm still trying to work through matching the right amount of rotation with the right amount of knuckles down...I like to get steep too so I can dig a ditch with the best of them..lol.

 

 

 

 

No "grooved swings" here. Swings trend towards a singular event, with the next being one I'm unfamiliar with. Both good and bad.

 

 

Edit add after contemplation: Somewhat related side note. Not that anyone cares two hoots, but I'm feeling confessional. Wish I didn't have this real phobia towards taking some lessons. Find a Pro of my very own. Problem is some that I've crossed paths with are jackwagons, impressed with their own self importance. (Yes, gross characterization.) But more than willing to take your C-note.

 

The fear resides in revealing how I swing to someone knowledgeable, and it's determined that "It's pitiful" and need to start rebuilding it. Perhaps watching a vid and realizing it's pitiful. Bursting all sorts of preconceived bubbles. That this plodding along with a DIY approach when I don't really know much about the D part is dumb. A very real case of stage fright. But it's sorta like going to a chiropractor. Once you start, one seemingly doesn't ever stop going. (With no offense to anyone that realizes benefit from their services.) So I continue muddling along trying to play my best. And like it.

 

You just summed up my entire golf life with that statement. Well said, and so true for me too,

 

I agree with you on the lessons. I had a lesson from a very well respected coach in Atl and the entire hour boiled down to "Try to get your belt buckle to face behind the ball at impact, you won't be able to do it, but try to." Ok so he's slowing my hips.... and "You're a blacksmith right now...I need you to be a ballerina." Ok so quit trying to kill the ball... That was it. No real position or tech talk..which I get, some coaches just supply swing thoughts/feels. His advice did help a little..? Maybe? Sometimes I think more lessons are in order, sometimes I think just time on the range developing a repeatable move would be better..?

 

You guys have no idea the restraint I'm exercising right about now. LOL!!!!!

 

Every fiber in my body is itching to comment on this every spec of this stuff.

 

Let's hear it. That's the nice thing about people further along in a journey, perspective can be extremely valuable. Experience is priceless as is sharing it.

[Reasonability]

Lessons - Guys if there is one thing I could magically just give to each of you, it would be matching any/all who would consider it, with a truly great teaching pro locally. I've experienced the conceptual mumbo-jumbo artists more interested in his own ego than my swing.

 

I've also had just the opposite. It actually is possible to find someone out there who is a great communicator, who truly wants to help. We're talking about people who reach into you golf soul and beautifully get you from A to B. They explore OPTIONS with you to find the simplest/easiest map. They take your calls or will follow-up with you at will. Believe it or not they can become your friend - true friend who would help you golf-wise or otherwise. Such people are out there.

 

Going it alone does indeed have it's major advantages. No one is trying to turn you into anything you don't want to be or don't relate to. There's always going to be time spent between lessons trying to think and do things for yourself anyway. Golf is prolly one of THE most self-taught sports and not having outside help does carry a certain amount of pride. A man can always say, "Whatever it is or isn't... it's all mine and I'm OK with that."

 

All I can say is if you can find one of those truly good ones... it's amazing. We all tend to fix one thing and break two others in the process. An objective pair of eyes will see you doing things (right and wrong) you don't even realize you're doing. The stance and grip are hard to figure out all by your lonesome.

 

Would give anything if I could magically wave a wand and give you guys that opportunity to let a great one work with you for a couple of months. It's so understandable that so many just don't want to risk going through the process of finding a great one and wandering in the path of a poor one. It's just like finding a good Doc, or mechanic, or anything else. Some are going to rub your fur the wrong way and you never trust them. Some are just the opposite. It's SO worth it to find a great instructor. And it's fun when it happens.

[Spooky67]

Lessons - Guys if there is one thing I could magically just give to each of you, it would be matching any/all who would consider it, with a truly great teaching pro locally. I've experienced the conceptual mumbo-jumbo artists more interested in his own ego than my swing.

 

I've also had just the opposite. It actually is possible to find someone out there who is a great communicator, who truly wants to help. We're talking about people who reach into you golf soul and beautifully get you from A to B. They explore OPTIONS with you to find the simplest/easiest map. They take your calls or will follow-up with you at will. Believe it or not they can become your friend - true friend who would help you golf-wise or otherwise. Such people are out there.

 

Going it alone does indeed have it's major advantages. No one is trying to turn you into anything you don't want to be or don't relate to. There's always going to be time spent between lessons trying to think and do things for yourself anyway. Golf is prolly one of THE most self-taught sports and not having outside help does carry a certain amount of pride. A man can always say, "Whatever it is or isn't... it's all mine and I'm OK with that."

 

All I can say is if you can find one of those truly good ones... it's amazing. We all tend to fix one thing and break two others in the process. An objective pair of eyes will see you doing things (right and wrong) you don't even realize you're doing. The stance and grip are hard to figure out all by your lonesome.

 

Would give anything if I could magically wave a wand and give you guys that opportunity to let a great one work with you for a couple of months. It's so understandable that so many just don't want to risk going through the process of finding a great one and wandering in the path of a poor one. It's just like finding a good Doc, or mechanic, or anything else. Some are going to rub your fur the wrong way and you never trust them. Some are just the opposite. It's SO worth it to find a great instructor. And it's fun when it happens.

 

Great post. I agree with you, IF I could find that instructor I'd love lessons. Golf is a lot like other pursuits that have "no one way" you see all kinds of swings work and all kinds of variation in instruction so it's clear that there's room for all thoughts and ways...

 

But like you mentioned, finding the perfect fit is key. I have yet to do so. I would love to find it and I know I would progress exponentially as right now I am working through the school of hard knocks...lol. If you know of anyone in Peachtree City, Fayetteville, Newnan or around Atlanta please let me know.

[Fellaheen51]

Believe Sco posted that 'Easiest Swing' video awhile back. Nevertheless, a very good one. The second one is outstanding. No necessary verbiage over the video. Pared down, easy to understand bullet points illustrating what one is observing. Without unnecessary lingoism. Can watch in totality through the entire swing process. But importantly for me at least, watch in smaller size increments to gain some understand of a individual component. Read, view, repeat. "Oh yeah, I see what he's doing there." And then try to replicate the detail. TFP.

__________________

 

Reason. Be careful with exercising excessive restraint. You may pull something. I'll echo what others have already said. Fire away when you feel the need. Don't be hesitant with how it may be received. All are read and pondered, plus opening up discussion for other thoughts on the subject. You obviously take a fair amount of time in composing your swing posts. It doesn't come on the quick. Plus, you seem to know a little bit about such things. It helps a lot to read a followup to a swing thing that I (or others) have thrown out there. What may seem like a minor detail (i.e. grip changes) can become a expanded discussion on the detail. Not knowing if I'm properly articulating various swing points I'm fiddling with, it is of benefit for you to add some depth to see if the idea has merit (setup), versus others that may be bit off kilter (pop stoke).

 

Furthermore, the early morning swing musings often have a ulterior motive. Sorta like "chumming the waters" for a rise. Rather than posting......Hey Reason, what's your take on 'this' that I'm now working on". Ask to many times, you might be sending me a bill for services rendered.

_____________

 

Played today. Some good shots, some not so good. Didn't care. Was hotter than Hades (95*, 60%, indexed at 107). The back nine was brutal. Became gassed by the 16th hole and just want to get it over with. Two golf gloves were soaked along with the towel I kept wiping down with. Drank seemingly a gallon of water and didn't have to take a leak once. If it wasn't for a playing commitment, would have stayed in A/C today. Fella don't do well in this much heat.

[Reasonability]

Loved the Scotee vids, FWIW. That first one is the epitome of smooth relaxed tempo. It actually has a nice tie to the second vid where it's suggested the hands and sternum should spend a lot of time right in front of each other (versus letting the handle wander anywhere/everywhere regardless of what the body is doing).

 

That first vid... the man doesn't even speak! LOVE how he let a picture be worth a thousand words. Love that smooth tempo. Love that he just LETS rather than forces his lower body (feet, knees, hips) roll right along with his swing back and through so rhythmically. He's the poster child for how a beautifully relaxed and flowing swing trumps technical mumbo-jumbo.

 

Love in that 2nd vid how we get to see the very rare look at a golfer not from dead face-on or down the line, but at angles were the hands and handle move into and out if impact. It's only from that angle we can see that happening in all it's glory.

 

Good stuff!

 

Yes, I'll serve up more thoughts - but later if it's OK. Having too much fun listening to you guys and your thoughts. Have ZERO desire to stilt the great convo. I'll agree to not hold back if you'll do the same in return!