Big, tall, or round golfer's. Get on in here.

[northgolf]

No, no issue posting here, but I don't use IE or Edge and I turn off flash.

[Strike Force]

No issues here either. Windows 10 OS, using Chrome browser.

[danattherock]

My GolfWRX page froze. Closed. Reopened a new page. Working now. Pesky Russians. Haha

[slantsflood]

Had a chance to take some swings with a 6 iron I extended 3 inches. I've never swung a club this long before. I could break it down to all the different distances and different ball flights. But this is all that I'm going to say.

 

Your real swing with a ball, feels like your practice swings. You have this freedom that you have never felt before, your body flows, just like in your practice swings. You don't have to make this big effort to get back down to the ball halfway on your ds, it just happens. You can feel your body and feet gaining power, and letting it through instead of it just disappearing. By the time I was done, I was so happy, yet so disgusted. So happy that I knew I could swing like I always imagined I could. Yet so disgusted that I've hit thousands of balls, tried 6 different swings, wasted so much time and money. If anyone is even questioning this, try it immediately please! Worst case scenario is you take the extension back out. Words can't express how shocked I am by this. Thank you Jim and Dan!

[slantsflood]

Gary Player at 5'6" with basketball Hall of Famer Yao Ming 7'6"

 

 

If these 2 were fitted in my area, Gary would be standard length, and Yao would be +3/4 of an inch. Not kidding:)

[Ghost of Snead]

Had a chance to take some swings with a 6 iron I extended 3 inches. I've never swung a club this long before. I could break it down to all the different distances and different ball flights. But this is all that I'm going to say.

 

 

Did you adjust the lie angle as well ?

[northgolf]

I'm surprised everyone here is acting like there is no control sacrifice in going to longer irons.

 

I have a few problems with longer iron shafts:

1) longer length generally means less control

2) I have yet to find a local club fitter who adjusts kick point location along with shaft length - this definitely effects feel

3) Shaft flex - longer shafts flex more, this is rarely accounted for in fitting.

4) Swing weight. Shorten the shaft and club fitters will add weight to maintain swing weight, none around here drill out the head when lengthening

 

All of the above have lead me to have the experience that longer shafts result in me losing club head speed and accuracy. To swing the longer club with the same accuracy and speed that I do with standard length irons, I'd have to be stronger than I am. Now, I am not extremely tall by today's standards (6 3) with short arms, but standard lie 2 degrees upright make me happy (though you have to check each manufacturer for lies, for example: Mizunos tend to be flatter than Tittleists). For me, the ability to use shorter shafts is largely dependent on core and hamstring flexibility and a more upright swing plane.

 

The above stated, I do realize there is a point where lie adjustment would becomes too extreme and club shaft lengthening is necessary. I just believe there are too many fitters whose first go to is shaft lengthening who then don't do the adjustments to the rest of the club that would make it a workable solution.

 

edit: I just checked, and I am above the 95th percentile in height for my age (56), race, and gender.

[danattherock]

Had a chance to take some swings with a 6 iron I extended 3 inches. I've never swung a club this long before. I could break it down to all the different distances and different ball flights. But this is all that I'm going to say.

 

Your real swing with a ball, feels like your practice swings. You have this freedom that you have never felt before, your body flows, just like in your practice swings. You don't have to make this big effort to get back down to the ball halfway on your ds, it just happens. You can feel your body and feet gaining power, and letting it through instead of it just disappearing. By the time I was done, I was so happy, yet so disgusted. So happy that I knew I could swing like I always imagined I could. Yet so disgusted that I've hit thousands of balls, tried 6 different swings, wasted so much time and money. If anyone is even questioning this, try it immediately please! Worst case scenario is you take the extension back out. Words can't express how shocked I am by this. Thank you Jim and Dan!

 

 

Echoes my thoughts. Extended 9 iron to 2" the other day and after two range trips, I'm amazed. Drastic improvement. Thanks to Jim and Rybo for making me take the plunge. Dropped off 6 iron for same 2" extension yesterday. Heading out soon to get and hit it. Ordered a Callaway FT-iZ driver last night from Callaway Preowned, need regular flex now, all my clubs are stiff. Had them extend it 2", will cut down and regrip if needed. Figured why not. May end up with 2" over in short irons and wedges, 1.75" over in middle irons, 1.5" over on long irons, 1" over in woods. A graduated approach, applying length to clubs that need it most. Not sure. But I can tell I'm asking myself the right questions. After tinkering with these old 2004 big bertha golds, will get recoil 95's put in my Miura irons.

 

 

 

Dan

[danattherock]

I'm surprised everyone here is acting like there is no control sacrifice in going to longer irons.

 

I have a few problems with longer iron shafts:

1) longer length generally means less control

2) I have yet to find a local club fitter who adjusts kick point location along with shaft length - this definitely effects feel

3) Shaft flex - longer shafts flex more, this is rarely accounted for in fitting.

4) Swing weight. Shorten the shaft and club fitters will add weight to maintain swing weight, none around here drill out the head when lengthening

 

All of the above have lead me to have the experience that longer shafts result in me losing club head speed and accuracy. To swing the longer club with the same accuracy and speed that I do with standard length irons, I'd have to be stronger than I am. Now, I am not extremely tall by today's standards (6 3) with short arms, but standard lie 2 degrees upright make me happy (though you have to check each manufacturer for lies, for example: Mizunos tend to be flatter than Tittleists). For me, the ability to use shorter shafts is largely dependent on core and hamstring flexibility and a more upright swing plane.

 

The above stated, I do realize there is a point where lie adjustment would becomes too extreme and club shaft lengthening is necessary. I just believe there are too many fitters whose first go to is shaft lengthening who then don't do the adjustments to the rest of the club that would make it a workable solution.

 

edit: I just checked, and I am above the 95th percentile in height for my age (56), race, and gender.

 

 

My thoughts over last 25 years of golfing are same. But that's changing. I think the swing flaws that short clubs introduced to my swing are apparently more impactive than the physics supportng the idea longer clubs are harder to hit straight. I gained 6-8 yards on my meager 115 yard 9 iron the other day. Bouncing back from back surgery, slow swing speed. More importantly, I was peppering the flag with the extended club, 2" over. Drastic improvement. Nothing subtle about it. Lots of testing and tweaking ahead, but it's obvious I've played clubs too short to date.

 

 

 

Dan

[northgolf]

Dan,

 

As I age, I find my biggest impediment is loss of flexibility. Almost every swing flaw I've had pointed out in the past 3 years can be directly tracked to compensations I make to get the club to my old P4 position that my body can no longer reach using good form.

 

How is the rehab going from your back surgery? So far, I've been fortunate enough to not have back issues.

[danattherock]

Slow man. Heading out door now to first rehab appt. Found them on Titliest Performance Institute. A sports rehab place in Pinehurst, PT, rehab, golf oriented, postural restoration, post surgical folks like me. Eager to see how it helps. Hit first ball last week since Nov 2012, time of car crash. Lots of lost strength and flexibility. Curious how much I can regain. But it's nice to be off the couch, irregardless. Got tired at range yesterday, just sat there enjoying breeze, watching folks hit balls, some old guy struggling in practice sand trap, taking it all in. I can say this, nearly dying does offer one perspective. I will never take a day at the range or golf course for granted again.

 

 

Dan

[slantsflood]

Had a chance to take some swings with a 6 iron I extended 3 inches. I've never swung a club this long before. I could break it down to all the different distances and different ball flights. But this is all that I'm going to say.

 

 

Did you adjust the lie angle as well ?

 

I have not yet, that will be the next step.

 

Here's how I am looking at this.

 

Make the club adjust to YOUR body. Not making your body adjust to the CLUB.

 

Basically take your athletic stance from the waist down. A position where you can move and turn your body in a athletic move. Then with your upper body, get to where you feel comfortable. Not straight up, but not leaned over so far you'll have to compensate.

 

In this position, without a club, look at where your hands are? If you're in this thread, there's a good chance they are much higher than where they were before.

[Ghost of Snead]

Had a chance to take some swings with a 6 iron I extended 3 inches. I've never swung a club this long before. I could break it down to all the different distances and different ball flights. But this is all that I'm going to say.

 

 

Did you adjust the lie angle as well ?

 

I have not yet, that will be the next step.

 

Here's how I am looking at this.

 

Make the club adjust to YOUR body. Not making your body adjust to the CLUB.

 

Basically take your athletic stance from the waist down. A position where you can move and turn your body in a athletic move. Then with your upper body, get to where you feel comfortable. Not straight up, but not leaned over so far you'll have to compensate.

 

In this position, without a club, look at where your hands are? If you're in this thread, there's a good chance they are much higher than where they were before.

 

No I'm good .. I'm 6-2 215 and clubs are +1/4, lie angle 1 flat. Most of you guys are a lot bigger than me.

[slantsflood]

That's great, because now you know you're good to go.

[rybo]

I'm surprised everyone here is acting like there is no control sacrifice in going to longer irons.

 

I have a few problems with longer iron shafts:

1) longer length generally means less control

2) I have yet to find a local club fitter who adjusts kick point location along with shaft length - this definitely effects feel

3) Shaft flex - longer shafts flex more, this is rarely accounted for in fitting.

4) Swing weight. Shorten the shaft and club fitters will add weight to maintain swing weight, none around here drill out the head when lengthening

 

All of the above have lead me to have the experience that longer shafts result in me losing club head speed and accuracy. To swing the longer club with the same accuracy and speed that I do with standard length irons, I'd have to be stronger than I am. Now, I am not extremely tall by today's standards (6 3) with short arms, but standard lie 2 degrees upright make me happy (though you have to check each manufacturer for lies, for example: Mizunos tend to be flatter than Tittleists). For me, the ability to use shorter shafts is largely dependent on core and hamstring flexibility and a more upright swing plane.

 

The above stated, I do realize there is a point where lie adjustment would becomes too extreme and club shaft lengthening is necessary. I just believe there are too many fitters whose first go to is shaft lengthening who then don't do the adjustments to the rest of the club that would make it a workable solution.

 

edit: I just checked, and I am above the 95th percentile in height for my age (56), race, and gender.

 

In order:

1. Longer doesn't necessarily mean less control. If this was truly the case the LPGA would have a ton of players never being able to hit a fairway. Generally the women play their drivers longer then PGA guys. When first going longer it could feel like their is a loss of control but given some time to adapt to the better posture and there is always an improvement. A tall person trying a new longer club has never been able to swing with good posture. Never been able to let the lead shoulder rotate up properly during impact. Never had enough room to come from the inside. I have to say there is a bit of a learning curve because you are having to undo years of improper swings. My short irons have improved since going longer. Sample size is n=1 of course and correlation does not prove causation.

 

2. I agree!! Trying to find a fitter who truly understands how to fit a tall person properly is extremely difficult. Most know what they have learned from fitting schools or OEM manuals; and both of these truly miss the mark. See #3

 

3. Some of this relates back to #2. I have found that mid flex shafts tend to work better then say high kick shaft. The butt sections on a mid kick shaft are usually a bit stouter then high kick shafts. Personally I have had outstanding success using XP115's. No balloning like I get from Dynamic Golds. Also have noticed that if you find a shaft profile that you really get along with going to a softer flex can really make the swing easier. While flex is obviously important, I now believe finding the right profile for your swing is ultimately more important. I'm not into the shaft being the engine or transmission crap, for sure it's the only thing that bends during the swing and it had better be swinging with you and not against you.

 

4. Swingweight is definitely an issue. I finally took the plunge and drilled out an some old wedges. It was easy and quick and made a world of difference. One thing to consider is grip weight, if you are going longer you likely have larger hands. I am currently playing jumbo with 4 wraps and up to 7 on the lower hand to remove most of the taper. Sounds like it would be ginourmous but the reality is my middle and ring finger can still touch and now my hands don't hurt anymore. I squeeze into an XL glove, probably should be wearing XXL. Anyway jumbos weigh 80 grams or so. That's alot of weight to help keep the swing weight feeling normal. It's not tricking the scale either. Weight is weight and MOI increase any time weight is added anywhere on a club. All of that said, it can take some time to find what works for you. I have the luxury of having a full compliment of golf tools in the garage to work on clubs. Another thing to try is light shaft.

 

 

 

"For me, the ability to use shorter shafts is largely dependent on core and hamstring flexibility and a more upright swing plane." Using shorter clubs then what fits your stature puts a lot of strain on your hamstrings and abdominal muscles, also your glutes. Eventually the lower back will hurt.

[rybo]

Drilled wedges

[danattherock]

Insightful info about the grips, counterbalance, etc. I've read weight can be added in butt, but not heard specifics.

 

Never considered more wraps on lower portion. Natural golf grip? Saw infomercial 20 years ago.. hah.

 

 

Dan

[slantsflood]

Thank you Jim. I forgot, I did this to a ping eye 2 white dot, which is + 1/2 to begin with, and I remeasured without the grip and the club is + 3 3/4. So almost 4 freaking inches lol. Now I know why I've always carried a 2 iron and was my favorite club in the bag.

 

I don't know how or why to figure out the end result. Right now I don't care, I'm just so happy to have that free feeling. I actually had a much easier time not getting stuck on my bs. I was playing around with choking down on the grip and anything below 2 inches, I lose that free feeling. So if anyone is trying to gauge this, your body will kind of tell you where the sweet spot is, in my experience anyway.

[slantsflood]

As always, thanks Jim! Got golf on the mind, can't sleep...

 

I keep watching your video and keep going to the parts with wie (wonder why) and Norman. This feels very different than any other swing I've felt before. It feels very much "across" your body, than "around". Now, that's just a feel, which may not be real. And I know if done correctly, there is no sway.

 

I've tried to swing "around" my body for a long time. One month I would shoot mid 70s, next month mid 90s lol. It all depended on if I was dropping and shootin 3 from my driver. So frustrating, so this really feels like a whole new way to swing and play.

 

Here is how it's gone so far

 

Takeaway---starting the swing as an actual swinging motion is a great feeling. Especially if you have has some experience with "Swinging the clubhead". That rhythm can setup the whole sequence, especially once you trust it. Having the left arm be in control is easy for me. First lesson I ever had was a left sided pull the rope, ring the bell swing. And having the fingers on the right hand light on the shaft collecting the energy feels right.

 

The setup(backtracking here) is very important, but if you read and reread Jim's steps, then you will create a discipline for it. It's a very solid athletic stance. Middle linebackeresq (have to go foward,backward,left,right,on a dime) butt up, belt buckle down made me feel my pelvis for the first time in a long time. Read Jim's words and descriptions as a preset checklist.

 

Bs- this part I'm enjoying most of all and is the most challenging for me. 2 things have followed me over the years and tend to sneak back in my swing. Inside takeaway that gets my left bicep pinned under my chest. And not keeping my right knee flexed. I know how to keep it flexed, it's just other swings didn't require it like this does. Once my hands get to my right leg, this is the part that feels across instead of around. I'm so used to keeping head still, trying to turn around my spine in a barrel. I almost feel like I'm using more ground pressure in my feet to get my left side to my right. I haven't checked it out on camera yet, still filling my brain that controls the body. There's a lot of things in Jim's video, but it's just like he's says. The more you watch it, the more you will pick up and it's true.

 

Ds- this is the really fun part! It is the crane swinging the wrecking ball. If you have ever pitched, quarterbacked, hell lots of sports, then you already know this move. It's one big chain reaction of what you've just built up. And you just have to let it take its course. Don't grind it's gears,let things unwind the way they were meant to be just like other sports. Push off the right side and then backhand that puppy with your left hand. You'll feel when it's time for righty to join the party, anything earlier will feel "uninvited".

 

There are a lot of things I missed and didn't cover. Important details with this swing. I'm just relaying my experiences and feels from the beginning. And im sure if some of you have been on this site long enough, weve probably tried some of the same swings. Im doing this swing because I enjoy the instructor, he realizes im not your typical 5'10 170lb build, and it's good for the back. And I want to play this game for a long time.

 

Will this swing be difficult to learn?

Yep.

 

Is it tougher than other swings on this site?

Nope.

 

It's just like anything, if you commit, have tunnel vision, and do everything you can to master it, you'll be fine.

[rybo]

Here is a sequence of Nick Faldo who is a legit 6' 4". Pay attention to lead shoulder at address and at impact, it has risen several inches which can easily be seen since the pics are against the tree line off in the distance. This impact position with the high lead shoulder is what every golfer needs to be fit to. Shorter golfers have clubs that are sufficiently long enough while taller golfers do not. This high shoulder at impact has to occur with the wedges.

 

 

[rybo]

Thank you Jim. I forgot, I did this to a ping eye 2 white dot, which is + 1/2 to begin with, and I remeasured without the grip and the club is + 3 3/4. So almost 4 freaking inches lol. Now I know why I've always carried a 2 iron and was my favorite club in the bag.

 

I don't know how or why to figure out the end result. Right now I don't care, I'm just so happy to have that free feeling. I actually had a much easier time not getting stuck on my bs. I was playing around with choking down on the grip and anything below 2 inches, I lose that free feeling. So if anyone is trying to gauge this, your body will kind of tell you where the sweet spot is, in my experience anyway.

 

With the +1/2" married to the white dot (3* up) that club should be 2* up. Ping adjusts lie angles by length. They have their fitting ideas and they are going to keep you within them unless you tell them specifically what you want the club(s) to be.

 

What club did you have lengthened?

[slantsflood]

Man, you pull up some good stuff rybo. It was a 6 iron

[danattherock]

Great insights guys. I had great success with my 9 iron extended 2" this week. Picked up 6 iron yesterday to test but at range, grip was slipping. Wasn't glued in properly after 2" extension. Beamed a few to right, shank even, then realized grip was tearing as it twisted, Winn OS wrap. Took it back and got new grip, eager to hit it.

 

Tall man Golf (website) returned my email and confirms a demo club program. So may be possible to test out a long club if anyone is interested. Regarding weight drilled out of wedges in pic earlier, I also read on Tall Man Golf site that his clubs are made with 30% reduction in club head weight. My clubfitter said oversize grips will help balance the longer clubs, and some type of butt located counter weight is possible.

 

As Jim awad said. I think, most manufacturers don't offer long shafts. I've emailed many this week as I'm changing my set over to graphite. Tall Man gets his 3-5" longer shafts from UST, maybe they will sell same shafts to individuals. Aerotech rep said their steel fiber are long enough to allow 2" over length, which along with Recoil 95's, are on my short list. While not certain, my clubfitter thinks ordering 2-6 iron shafts for my 5-PW, will effectively allow the same.

 

The one thing I have zero doubt about after this week, a 37" putter is something I should have tried a long time ago. Most of mine are 34.5-35", but had a Scotty TEI3 extended to 37" and absolutely loving it. At minimum, it will allow more practice time before my back starts hurting. But I think the benefits are further reaching than that, just not able to articulate. I was putting unusually good on several occasions this week.

 

Just a few random thoughts this morning. Great conversation here.

 

 

 

 

Dan

[rybo]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

[slantsflood]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

[iteachgolf]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

 

The back absolutely should be rounded. With arms in front and on top of chest shoulder blades get rolled inward. Pulling shoulder blades back and trying to have a straight back is one of the worst things you can do at setup. Nothing wrong with Faldo's setup

[CallawayLefty]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

 

I think I recall from a golf digest right after Faldo's last masters win that he played his irons at +1". I could be remembering incorrectly, but I've had that in my head for a long time.

 

EDIT: Found a link that has some info: http://persimmongolf...rg/archives/675

 

Looks like his 5 iron was +0.625" to today's standards. I think that may have been more like 1" over of the "then" standards. Of course his driver was 1.5"-2" less than today's standard.

[northgolf]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

The elbow position at setup is because he is keeping them close together, not because he needs to do that to reach the ground. Right out of Hogan. Hogan had the same elbow position and he wasn't what I'd call tall.

 

[slantsflood]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

 

The back absolutely should be rounded. With arms in front and on top of chest shoulder blades get rolled inward. Pulling shoulder blades back and trying to have a straight back is one of the worst things you can do at setup. Nothing wrong with Faldo's setup

I've pulled my shoulder blades back and had a straight back for year's. It doesn't feel great, but that's what I was taught back then. Iteach, what's your opinion or thoughts on lengthening irons for your taller, wider, rounder golfers? Do you have a benchmark or system you go by with your clients?

[iteachgolf]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

 

The back absolutely should be rounded. With arms in front and on top of chest shoulder blades get rolled inward. Pulling shoulder blades back and trying to have a straight back is one of the worst things you can do at setup. Nothing wrong with Faldo's setup

I've pulled my shoulder blades back and had a straight back for year's. It doesn't feel great, but that's what I was taught back then. Iteach, what's your opinion or thoughts on lengthening irons for your taller, wider, rounder golfers? Do you have a benchmark or system you go by with your clients?

 

I lengthen irons but generally not the 2-3" talked about here. Very player dependent. Lots of players in +1/2" to +1.5". My players that are 6'4-6'7 play +1" to +1.5"