Big, tall, or round golfer's. Get on in here.

[northgolf]

...

 

The one thing I have zero doubt about after this week, a 37" putter is something I should have tried a long time ago. Most of mine are 34.5-35", but had a Scotty TEI3 extended to 37" and absolutely loving it. At minimum, it will allow more practice time before my back starts hurting. But I think the benefits are further reaching than that, just not able to articulate. I was putting unusually good on several occasions this week.

 

...

 

Dan

 

Now this is something I agree with. I use a 38" Odyssey Tank Cruiser 1 armlock putter as a normal putter and grip it with a normal grip. So much better than a short putter.

[northgolf]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

I never noticed how his back is rounded and elbows locked. I wonder if club lengthening was very taboo back then? Kind of if you had a good thing going, don't mess with it?

 

The back absolutely should be rounded. With arms in front and on top of chest shoulder blades get rolled inward. Pulling shoulder blades back and trying to have a straight back is one of the worst things you can do at setup. Nothing wrong with Faldo's setup

I've pulled my shoulder blades back and had a straight back for year's. It doesn't feel great, but that's what I was taught back then. Iteach, what's your opinion or thoughts on lengthening irons for your taller, wider, rounder golfers? Do you have a benchmark or system you go by with your clients?

 

I lengthen irons but generally not the 2-3" talked about here. Very player dependent. Lots of players in +1/2" to +1.5". My players that are 6'4-6'7 play +1" to +1.5"

 

Outside of lengthening, any other adjustments? Do you prefer lengthening to lie adjustment?

[martynbirch]

6' 1" about 240 ish. Always had a problem with open face coming into and if I can't flip it closed at impact as well. I'm convinced that broad chest means arms too much on the side which leads to separating elbows and out of sync arms which seems to open the face and prevent it closing.

 

Having some success in making sure arms are on top of chest (man boobs) and inward pressure on elbows throughout, does this sound legit?

[northgolf]

All of us here know about "feel".

[slantsflood]

Exactly...Look at Laura Davies....(many of us here, in drag)...She's got to get the left Bicep over her left boob, and leads the backswing with her head...

 

Slant's just wrote pretty much the same thing...So far, everyone that found the stuff I posted about how to stop the flip, or better body motion, and subsequently longer clubs BACKED UP by our (I officially declare him our Dean of Fitting in this 'treasonous thread') Rybo is very happy with what they're feeling

Hahaha this is treason at its highest, and I'll keep drinking it! There is soooo much in this thread already. But what it all comes down to for the "big, tall, and round" is how can you move your body with balance,speed,and power. We've all seen so many tall and big golfers look like they are ready to tip over when they swing. And some of the guys I played with, we're amazing athlete's. They could do things on the field that most couldn't. Yet, you put this little club in their hand, and they look like some of the most uncoordinated golfers you've ever seen. That just ain't right man!

 

Give them what fits them!

Let them "use their athlete" in their swing!

 

I realize that golf instruction is contradicting in so many ways for so many people. But for bigger people, keeping your head still and rotating around your spine with this tiny stick in your hands feels like a self induced mid evil torture device.

[northgolf]

Was so interested in finding someone tall and where it was easy to see the rising lead shoulder that I totally missed he is hunched over, has a rounded back and his elbows are locked in the first pic in the down the line views. The elbows need some flex, and Faldo's elbows are essentially locked because he's doing what he has to get the club to the ground. Tall people figure out a way to make it work, even if it's not the best method.

 

Before anyone blasts me it's difficult to critique and find any fault with Faldo's swing with the career he had.

 

The elbow position at setup is because he is keeping them close together, not because he needs to do that to reach the ground. Right out of Hogan. Hogan had the same elbow position and he wasn't what I'd call tall.

 

 

 

The illustrations in that book were all deliberately exaggerated. The publisher of the book wanted be sure things would stand out; his grip & spine tilt in the book too.

(need an inch, ask for a foot)

 

The guy in the picture can 'hit it like Hogan', the guy in the drawing won't break 100. Hogan had a freak physique, and while it may be treason to 'dis him' on wrx, hardly anything from THAT cat applies to MOST cats on this thread

 

First, I was specifically replying to Rybo's assertion that Faldo's arms were locked because he was reaching for the ball at address.

 

Second, compare the picture of Hogan's arm positions with the picture of Faldo's at address, convincingly describe how the arms (specifically the elbows) are in different positions, and then explain to me how those differences demonstrate Faldo's arms are locked because he is reaching for ball and Hogan's aren't.

 

Third, I didn't argue that people should swing like Hogan, or that he was the greatest, only that Rybo was off base in his analysis of Faldo. The argument everyone should swing like Hogan is your straw man and it is irrelevant.

 

BTW, don't forget the ball between the forearms drill. Some tour pro's do it just to get that close together elbows feeling.

[northgolf]

I met Mr Hogan several times when I was a kid. The 'old pro' who taught my Dad my brothers knew him well, as did my uncle. Never played golf with him or got a lesson. A smile, handshake and an autographed Masters hat. We of course had his book (VHS hadn't been invented yet) and while Charlie (our pro) liked and admired him, he was a much bigger dude - gut too - than Hogan, and told us "You Awad's aren't built for this, you're too big - only Ben was built for this" . He told us (back in 1974) the illustrations were all exaggerated so people could 'see it better'. Often he told us Hogan was ACTUALLY "Flat as a pancake" and have a little chuckle. We knew he liked him very much.

 

Here's a pretty good analysis that's not 'selling anything'

 

 

Impressive!

[slantsflood]

I met Mr Hogan several times when I was a kid. The 'old pro' who taught my Dad my brothers knew him well, as did my uncle. Never played golf with him or got a lesson. A smile, handshake and an autographed Masters hat. We of course had his book (VHS hadn't been invented yet) and while Charlie (our pro) liked and admired him, he was a much bigger dude - gut too - than Hogan, and told us "You Awad's aren't built for this, you're too big - only Ben was built for this" . He told us (back in 1974) the illustrations were all exaggerated so people could 'see it better'. Often he told us Hogan was ACTUALLY "Flat as a pancake" and have a little chuckle. We knew he liked him very much.

 

Here's a pretty good analysis that's not 'selling anything'

 

That's awesome! Not many people can tell that story. I'd say you've seen a trend or 2 in the golf swing over the years.

[slantsflood]

Any big guys feel free to ask these guys questions or post some videos. This thread was made for you to answer some of the unknowns with the swing or iron lengths. Doesn't matter if you're low or high handicapper. It's all good in here, don't be shy, they won't judge you.

[danattherock]

I realize that golf instruction is contradicting in so many ways for so many people. But for bigger people, keeping your head still and rotating around your spine with this tiny stick in your hands feels like a self induced mid evil torture device.

 

 

Adding the straight left arm to your above list, is why Jimmy Ballards method appealed to me. Never thought much about it, but these specific things, that I can actually do (physically) are surely why I improved so much when trying his way of swinging a golf club. Like many, I've got a stack of golf instructional dvds, countless golf mag instruction article try and fails, and quite a few instructional aids in garage attic that still look new.

 

I've taken a few lessons from some talented folks, Pinehurst close to home, Atlanta, South Carolina, etc. Some success, but mostly frustration and in some cases, physically painful. Jimmy had me on a good path, which I learned about half of I would guess, prior to getting hurt in car crash and stopped playing. Weight transfer on (coiling onto) right leg, some bend in left arm, not twisting around my spine, among other natural feeling movements were the basics of what I was learning.

 

But typical modern golf instruction, just never clicked for me. It's that square peg, round hole analogy Jim Awad suggested. On steroids. Try, fail. Try, fail. It's a viscous cycle. The unanswered question is what percentage of the problem is lack of talent vs ill fitting golf equipment forcing contrived positions with devastating compensatory moves in the swing. I won't figure it out today, but I'm excited by the prospect that I might not suck forever.

 

 

Dan

[rybo]

let me clear up some things.

 

In no way am I advocating +2" or +3", etc. I am advocating make the wedges as long as needed while being able to be in a good posture. Build the rest of the set from there using some reduced step increment. ie.. 1/8", 1/4" or 3/8" . This will ensure the short irons fit and the long irons do not get exceptionally long. I feel +3" on a 6 iron will not be playable unless you are about 6' 10".

 

Ben Hogan - Maybe 5' 7" with freakishly long arms. Much like Jim has stated, my first instructor who taught me through HS said the same thing, essentially he said you are much too tall for a Hogan swing. Hogan built his swing for himself, not for others to emulate. Certainly not someone who is nearly a foot taller then him. The top of his head would literally come just past my shoulder.

 

I will stick with my assessment from that picture that Faldo is a bit hunched over and his arms are very straight, but definitely not locked out. Being tall you recognize the subtle things that point to a tall golfer making themselves fit to the club. Us tall people can hide it pretty well, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

[Schnee]

...

 

The one thing I have zero doubt about after this week, a 37" putter is something I should have tried a long time ago. Most of mine are 34.5-35", but had a Scotty TEI3 extended to 37" and absolutely loving it. At minimum, it will allow more practice time before my back starts hurting. But I think the benefits are further reaching than that, just not able to articulate. I was putting unusually good on several occasions this week.

 

...

 

Dan

 

Now this is something I agree with. I use a 38" Odyssey Tank Cruiser 1 armlock putter as a normal putter and grip it with a normal grip. So much better than a short putter.

 

And he makes everything/is a GREAT lag putter with it. He knows what he's talking about here. I've seen it firsthand.

[slantsflood]

I realize that golf instruction is contradicting in so many ways for so many people. But for bigger people, keeping your head still and rotating around your spine with this tiny stick in your hands feels like a self induced mid evil torture device.

 

 

Adding the straight left arm to your above list, is why Jimmy Ballards method appealed to me. Never thought much about it, but these specific things, that I can actually do (physically) are surely why I improved so much when trying his way of swinging a golf club. Like many, I've got a stack of golf instructional dvds, countless golf mag instruction article try and fails, and quite a few instructional aids in garage attic that still look new.

 

I've taken a few lessons from some talented folks, Pinehurst close to home, Atlanta, South Carolina, etc. Some success, but mostly frustration and in some cases, physically painful. Jimmy had me on a good path, which I learned about half of I would guess, prior to getting hurt in car crash and stopped playing. Weight transfer on (coiling onto) right leg, some bend in left arm, not twisting around my spine, among other natural feeling movements were the basics of what I was learning.

 

But typical modern golf instruction, just never clicked for me. It's that square peg, round hole analogy Jim Awad suggested. On steroids. Try, fail. Try, fail. It's a viscous cycle. The unanswered question is what percentage of the problem is lack of talent vs ill fitting golf equipment forcing contrived positions with devastating compensatory moves in the swing. I won't figure it out today, but I'm excited by the prospect that I might not suck forever.

 

 

Dan

Well said Dan! You are definitely a golfer who has been there and done that. And it just gets tiring, exhausting, and painfull. In the corner of your mind you're always thinking "there's gotta be a better way to do this". And it's not from lack of trying or talent.

 

You would of been better off stranded on a deserted island. With a bucket of balls and some clubs. Granted, the clubs would have to "fit" you. But you would of figured it out by listening to your body, impact, and ball flight. On a island, there's no rush to redeem yourself to your buddies from last weekends disaster. But instead, we youtube what we think our problem is, and throw a band aid on it. You wouldn't be machine gunning balls looking for the unicorn swing. You would play around with it and say "oh well" I'll try tomorrow. After a couple months, you'd be knockin that banana out of that monkey's hand on the third branch up. With a 2 iron, from the sand!

 

Keep up the good fight big Dan!

[PowderedToastMan]

You tall, big guys seem like excellent candidates for the new influx of single length irons. Just get everything cut to like a 5 iron length and you're good to go.

[rybo]

 

 

Here is a picture of Hogan at address with an iron and his right forearm has about 20-30 degree bend from his upper arm. This is noticeably different then Faldo with his very straight arms.

 

The only way Faldo would be able to get his arms into this address position for his height would be with a club much longer then what he has in his hands.

[northgolf]

 

 

Here is a picture of Hogan at address with an iron and his right forearm has about 20-30 degree bend from his upper arm. This is noticeably different then Faldo with his very straight arms.

 

The only way Faldo would be able to get his arms into this address position for his height would be with a club much longer then what he has in his hands.

 

Oops, Dustin Johnson's clubs must be too short to, look how straight his arms are at address:

 

You better go tell Adam Scott he needs to be refit as well:

 

And Tiger Woods, his arms are way too straight:

 

You could save Tiger's career, who knew all he needed was for you to fit him with longer clubs!

[rybo]

A picture of Rory at address with an iron. Picked him due to similar height to Hogan.

 

Very straight back and standing quite tall in his posture, A very slight bend in the forearm but his arms are angled away from his body from the shoulders. I would call his setup a more modern evolutionary style, no rounded back, no rounded shoulders with the hands a bit further from the body.

 

If a tall golfer wants to stand up taller like this, with a significantly straighter upper back and having the head sit higher, they are going to require a much longer club to do so

[rybo]

 

 

Here is a picture of Hogan at address with an iron and his right forearm has about 20-30 degree bend from his upper arm. This is noticeably different then Faldo with his very straight arms.

 

The only way Faldo would be able to get his arms into this address position for his height would be with a club much longer then what he has in his hands.

 

Oops, Dustin Johnson's clubs must be too short to, look how straight his arms are at address:

 

You better go tell Adam Scott he needs to be refit as well:

 

And Tiger Woods, his arms are way too straight:

 

You could save Tiger's career, who knew all he needed was for you to fit him with longer clubs!

 

Only Dustin would qualify as tall out of these three and much like Rory the arms have become straighter with the hands away from the body more. His upper back is not rolled and his shoulders are much higher and straighter at address.

 

Interesting tid bit, his college coach lengthened his clubs slightly at every regripping to get the clubs long enough for him to stand up more.

 

 

edit:

 

Would like to add both Adam and Tiger at address in those videos have very straight backs and their shoulders have very little rounding. These are significant. Put a 6' 3" and taller guy into these positions and see how long of a club they will need.

[rybo]

I'm truly baffled as to why anyone thinks one size fits all when it comes to club length. Do taller people get larger bike frames? a 6' 4" person would look funny as hell trying to ride 52cm bike when a 62cm or 64cm size frame fits their body. And their knees would be toast after one ride on a little bike.

 

Why is there such a reluctance to fit clubs properly for tall people?

[CallawayLefty]

A picture of Rory at address with an iron. Picked him due to similar height to Hogan.

 

Very straight back and standing quite tall in his posture, A very slight bend in the forearm but his arms are angled away from his body from the shoulders. I would call his setup a more modern evolutionary style, no rounded back, no rounded shoulders with the hands a bit further from the body.

 

If a tall golfer wants to stand up taller like this, with a significantly straighter upper back and having the head sit higher, they are going to require a much longer club to do so

 

I'm 6'2" and currently play standard length clubs. If I were to get into this address position with a mid iron, the sole of the club would be 2" off the ground at minimum. I'm not saying I'm running right out and extending my clubs by 2", but what I said is true. I wish I had the kind of resources to really tinker because I'd make myself all kinds of different clubs to try. I have a swing fault where my rear shoulder dips and stalls before/at impact. I wonder if it's a result of my mind understanding that if I kept the shoulder turning/move level that I'd basically miss the ball.

[Ghost of Snead]

I'm truly baffled as to why anyone thinks one size fits all when it comes to club length. Do taller people get larger bike frames? a 6' 4" person would look funny as hell trying to ride 52cm bike when a 62cm or 64cm size frame fits their body. And their knees would be toast after one ride on a little bike.

 

Why is there such a reluctance to fit clubs properly for tall people?

 

Who thinks that ? I would just add that arm length and wrist-to-floor measurement makes a difference in fitting clubs and not all tall people need 2-3" added to their clubs.

[rybo]

I'm truly baffled as to why anyone thinks one size fits all when it comes to club length. Do taller people get larger bike frames? a 6' 4" person would look funny as hell trying to ride 52cm bike when a 62cm or 64cm size frame fits their body. And their knees would be toast after one ride on a little bike.

 

Why is there such a reluctance to fit clubs properly for tall people?

 

Who thinks that ? I would just add that arm length and wrist-to-floor measurement makes a difference in fitting clubs and not all tall people need 2-3" added to their clubs.

 

Apparently most of the OEM's and some teachers. Only going up say +1" doesn't come close to solving the issues for tall golfers. It's like saying yes I know you have a 36" inseam but we only have +1" longer pant legs over the standard 30" inseam. 31" inseams will work for you, look it says so right here in this custom fitting chart the pant manufacturer provided.

 

Most tall people, probably over 90% would play much better with clubs that properly match club length with their shoulder height and arm lengths. Adding 2" or 3" to a 4 iron is likely going to be too much(maybe not!), +2" or more on lob, sand and gap wedges is definitely not.

[cardoustie]

6'2" and sadly north of 260, multiple back surgeries in 2004

 

I did a thread a while back on taller players and short iron challenges (as I was noticing I missed the centre on a SW more often than with a 7i)

 

I found that moving to plus 3/4" on the irons and +1" on the wedges has really helped

 

I also add 4 or 5 extra wraps to my grips and go with heavier swingweights

 

My s55's have Nippon 1150x in them but the new iblades (arriving today!!!!) have the Nippon 950 in X.., 17g less weight per shaft (104 grams). Hoping this helps with hand and elbow issues

 

I play my driver at 46"

 

Actually did a driver fitting with a pro who is in one of the big mags next month. I hit 46 as straight as 43. Also 55x is as straight as 85x. Not normal I was told

 

Sometimes you can find gold experimenting with your specs

[danattherock]

All I can contribute is conjecture as just this past week I've extended 9 iron, then 6 iron to 2". Loving it, and the switch has been easy. Looking forward to range tomm with 6 iron. Just hit first time yesterday in garage net. But wasn't chunking everything as I expected.

 

Lots of testing in store. But so far so good. I'm loving the more upright posture. Got 47" driver on brown truck. Will extend hybrid next week. Moving slow, but so far so good. Lots of swing characteristics will change if I'm on the right track.

 

Biggest struggle so far, not standing further from ball. Trying to stand more upright, but naturally keep standing further away. Some effort required.

 

 

Dan

[BManTx]

So, I'm 6'5" with a 40" WTF. I'm playing with Ping G25s, +1" with the standard graphite shafts.

 

Aside from having plenty of swing issues, I keep thinking of trying something a little longer and a heavier shaft. I've picked up a couple of heavier graphite shafts to try out this week.

 

And I'm always open to thoughts or suggestions...

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

[northgolf]

Wow, static fitting guidelines. Just shoot me now.

[northgolf]

Next up, lie boards don't lie.

[iteachgolf]

So, I'm 6'5" with a 40" WTF. I'm playing with Ping G25s, +1" with the standard graphite shafts.

 

Aside from having plenty of swing issues, I keep thinking of trying something a little longer and a heavier shaft. I've picked up a couple of heavier graphite shafts to try out this week.

 

And I'm always open to thoughts or suggestions...

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Hey Tex, like to see a face on view and I'd be glad to make a suggestion or two...Looks like you've got a long torso - NOT 'just' long legs. You're definitely too 'flat footed' coming into and at impact. (Rt. foot) I can't stop and toggle video thru here but looks like Rt. hand is doing too much; lotsa shaft droop making the head a lil out to in, or square to in at best and you're definitely too flat footed and 'scrunched up' coming into and through impact...

 

That suggests not making a good weight shift to START the downswing and too much right side AND RT HAND doin all the work. Also, NOT as 'tall above the belt line' as you could at address contributed to some of this :)

 

What do you mean by lots of shaft droop?

[slantsflood]

So, I'm 6'5" with a 40" WTF. I'm playing with Ping G25s, +1" with the standard graphite shafts.

 

Aside from having plenty of swing issues, I keep thinking of trying something a little longer and a heavier shaft. I've picked up a couple of heavier graphite shafts to try out this week.

 

And I'm always open to thoughts or suggestions...

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

Big Tex, I'm not qualified enough to help with swing advice. But for how tall and wide you're frame is? I'd definitely take an old iron laying around and experiment. What do you have to lose, ya know? At least then you won't have that unknown floating around in your mind.

[ksgolfcoach]

So, I'm 6'5" with a 40" WTF. I'm playing with Ping G25s, +1" with the standard graphite shafts.

 

Aside from having plenty of swing issues, I keep thinking of trying something a little longer and a heavier shaft. I've picked up a couple of heavier graphite shafts to try out this week.

 

And I'm always open to thoughts or suggestions...

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Hey Tex, like to see a face on view and I'd be glad to make a suggestion or two...Looks like you've got a long torso - NOT 'just' long legs. You're definitely too 'flat footed' coming into and at impact. (Rt. foot) I can't stop and toggle video thru here but looks like Rt. hand is doing too much; lotsa shaft droop making the head a lil out to in, or square to in at best and you're definitely too flat footed and 'scrunched up' coming into and through impact...

 

That suggests not making a good weight shift to START the downswing and too much right side AND RT HAND doin all the work. Also, NOT as 'tall above the belt line' as you could at address contributed to some of this :)

 

What do you mean when you say the right hand is doing too much?