Big, tall, or round golfer's. Get on in here.

[danattherock]

Thanks man. I was for some reason thinking the opposite, which watered down my excitement a bit this week. I'm hitting the ball very solid, but feel like I'm standing further from the ball, attempting my slightly flatter swing around my body. Results are good. But part of my confusion is because I just started back trying to play since Nov 2012, so I'm still struggling with proper ball position, in both directions. Feel further from ball with 2" over irons, but not as sure as I would be if playing consistently these last few years. Wondering if my previously too short clubs forced my steep swing plane, and possibly some other associated flaws. All I know, whole set is going to 2" over.

 

 

Dan

[rybo]

Dan

 

Just sent you a PM

[Galanga]

Rybo and others - really interesting stuff. It really seems like you are on to something with anthropometric charts. Fortunately, I guess I fit the 6'2" example nearly spot on except I am 6'1" with 59-59.5 shoulders and 36 WTF. Always felt cramped up with my irons - shorter ones especially. May have to try a +2.67" PW and give that a go. Not sure where to start with shafts but understand yours and others points to go lighter and likely graphite. Thanks for this insight.

[LCP]

6'5" 230 lbs. flexible and athletic 40-something. But very long wedges and short irons are the key (+2.25" at the bottom of the bag) to swinging comfortably and accurately. I could deal with shorter long irons (like +1" instead of +1.75") but kept them relatively long for more distance because at +/- 180-210 yds. distance is still the key more than accuracy, and I'd rather stretch out instead of compress my yardage gaps there -- that's usually a very bogey-likely long par 3 or a go-for-it in two par 5 shot, not a par 4 approach shot.

[rybo]

Rybo and others - really interesting stuff. It really seems like you are on to something with anthropometric charts. Fortunately, I guess I fit the 6'2" example nearly spot on except I am 6'1" with 59-59.5 shoulders and 36 WTF. Always felt cramped up with my irons - shorter ones especially. May have to try a +2.67" PW and give that a go. Not sure where to start with shafts but understand yours and others points to go lighter and likely graphite. Thanks for this insight.

 

I haven't figured out a good way to accurately measure shoulder height to the center.

 

You may want to try a few at 2" first.

[LCP]

Would appreciate any suggestion to this question.

 

With extended clubs, should I still be same distance from ball?

 

Reason I ask, when standing same distance, more upright spine, etc, I am not making great contact, chunking a few, and shanked 1-2. When standing slightly further from ball than normal, I'm able to swing a slightly flatter plane. My norm is a inside take away, with steep plane, and very high trajectory. So few moving parts here as I'm also working on swinging around my body more, flatter. Either way, standing what I'm perceiving as further from ball, I'm making much better contact, and more penetrating flight, with my attempt to swing slightly flatter. Could never swing flatter before as club wouldn't reach ground. Test clubs are 6&9 iron 2 degrees up and 2" over, 1.25" over historically. I'm 6'6".

 

Stand the proper distance that gets your lie angle correct. When I stand too far from the ball, two things happen -- my lie angle becomes too flat and/or I hit closer to the toe, leading to hooks/left shots due to lie angle being off, or I lose distance and hit short fades to the right, due to off-center toe hits. When I stand too close to the ball, the opposite two things can happen (including the occasional deadly shank).

[Jim Awad PGA]

hello moderator

 

how do I completely remove my name and everything from this place? can you guys do that for me. I'm done with unaccredited scumbags gang raping anyone who seems to challenge their existence. they're deliberately over complicating golf.

 

do you wrx people realize you'd have twice as many members and contributors IF you got rid of the unaccredited poisonous children here.

[rybo]

Anthropometric Hand Chart with a grip line. While not a golf grip it is much better then an open hand, closed fist or a WTF.

 

 

 

Another Anthropometric Chart with Arm Lengths. Add the upper and lower arms for a shoulder to wrist length.

 

 

 

Next is a chart using the data from the 3 anthropometric charts to determine a hand height by overall height.

 

It took some time to work out the different rates of change for each of the body parts. Body parts grow at different rates as you get taller. Shoulder height grows much faster then arm length, almost 2.5X's faster. Hand sizes enlarge at a faster rate. etc

 

 

 

The top box is all of the data from the charts. The rest I have worked out using rates of change to known anthropometric dimensions.

 

The second box is what I believe to be the length of your shortest club. This is based on the anthropometric dimensional hand heights using the standard 64* lie angle of the golf industry.

 

So using myself as example at 6' 4" my shortest wedge should be 37.728". What you choose to build your set from this point is up to you. But this is an absolute minimum length maintaining same body angles as someone who is 5' 9" or the average height of the population.

 

Interestingly I now understand why average size people like there wedges 1* -2* flatter then the rest of their set, the clubs are simply too long to begin with.

[rybo]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

[CallawayLefty]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

 

To be fair, there are a lot of good players now that are taller. Look at DJ at 6'4". And I bet that he plays 0.5" overlength at most (just a guess based on conventional fitting wisdom). That said, I generally agree with the contention that most good golfers appear to be of more "average" proportions.

 

On another note, I just looked at the OLD Ping chart and see that at 6'2"+/- with 39" WTF, they would have me in +0.5" and maroon dot - e.g. 5 degrees upright (crazy!!!!). I'm thinking about trying a little experiment with an old 60* wedge I've got laying around. Might start at +2" an trim from there. What the heck - it's about to be winter and I don't have much else to do.

[endurancechiro]

6'4 and 300 here. I do use 1/2" extended clubs, I have ape arms or else they would be longer. My biggest issue is getting way too steep and swinging left. I don't have too many issues with mobility (could be better with some lost weight though), and the fact that I swing easy instead of hit at the ball takes away a lot of strain on my body.

Mobility wise, a great tool to use would be a foam roller and a jumpstretch band. Using the FR and getting into some band assisted stretches can improve range of motion dramatically, even for us big guys.

[Ghost of Snead]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

 

You forgot a few ... Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Stenson, Archer, Middlecoff, Faldo, Mickelson, DJ ... all great players.

[rybo]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

 

You forgot a few ... Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Stenson, Archer, Middlecoff, Faldo, Mickelson, DJ ... all great players.

 

Michelson yes (6' 2") but the rest I don't consider in the same league as Hogan, Jones, Nicklaus, etc. You may and that's fine but I don't. Let's agree to disagree.

 

Ghost it's obvious you don't agree and I'm fine with it. I only ask you dont try to disrupt this thread. We already have people sitting in the corner in time out. Don't need more.

 

Ultimately it's purely math. You don't have to agree with it but it doesn't change the fact of what a fitting based on anthropometric proportions would recommend.

 

I may have to trademark the term Anthropometric Golf Fitting

[northgolf]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

 

To be fair, there are a lot of good players now that are taller. Look at DJ at 6'4". And I bet that he plays 0.5" overlength at most (just a guess based on conventional fitting wisdom). That said, I generally agree with the contention that most good golfers appear to be of more "average" proportions.

 

On another note, I just looked at the OLD Ping chart and see that at 6'2"+/- with 39" WTF, they would have me in +0.5" and maroon dot - e.g. 5 degrees upright (crazy!!!!). I'm thinking about trying a little experiment with an old 60* wedge I've got laying around. Might start at +2" an trim from there. What the heck - it's about to be winter and I don't have much else to do.

 

2011 was the last year I could document DJ's iron lengths, at that time he play +3/4"

[CheckJV]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

[Ghost of Snead]

Interesting factoid, the greatest players in the game are all around the same height. I don't think it's a coincidence anymore.

 

 

Hogan 5' 9" (think this is overstated, probably more like 5' 7" or less)

Trevino 5' 9"

Bobby Jones 5' 8"

Sam Snead 5' 11"

Nicklaus 5' 10"

Palmer 5' 10"

Player 5' 6"

McIlroy 5' 9"

Woods 6' 0" (at best)

 

 

The one hold out is Byron Nelson at 6' 1". Still not all that tall for what is being discussed here.

 

 

Give them a club that is +2" shorter then they played and I suspect they would have some trouble scoring like they did/do. Essentially that is what tall players are being faced with, clubs that are in excess of 2" too short.

 

You forgot a few ... Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Stenson, Archer, Middlecoff, Faldo, Mickelson, DJ ... all great players.

 

Michelson yes (6' 2") but the rest I don't consider in the same league as Hogan, Jones, Nicklaus, etc. You may and that's fine but I don't. Let's agree to disagree.

 

Ghost it's obvious you don't agree and I'm fine with it. I only ask you dont try to disrupt this thread. We already have people sitting in the corner in time out. Don't need more.

 

Ultimately it's purely math. You don't have to agree with it but it doesn't change the fact of what a fitting based on anthropometric proportions would recommend.

 

I may have to trademark the term Anthropometric Golf Fitting

 

Not trying to disrupt anything ... just pointing out that every golfer does not necessarily needs clubs are 2-3" longer. I'm out ...

[CallawayLefty]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

[rybo]

Not all do you are correct. Only tall golfers. Those who are in the 1% of the population, those above 6' 2".

 

Please explain how a tall golfer is expected to maintain a proper posture and reach the ball with a club that is 2" or more too short.

 

If Rory, Hogan, Jones,,etc bend let's say 10* forward from the waist why should a tall golfer be expected to bend say 15* or more. They can stand with their shoulders in their natural position, upper back not rolled, yet if a tall golfer does this the club will be several inches off the ground.

 

Do you agree with the anthropometric charts?

 

Do you understand body proportion changes are not linear? These different rates of changes cause different lengths to be needed for different heights. And it accelerates as one gets taller.

 

[rybo]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

So which of those three clubs would fit say a 6' 5" individual the best? And what would be the correct length for a 6' 5" golfer?

 

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

[CallawayLefty]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

So which of those three clubs would fit say a 6' 5" individual the best? And what would be the correct length for a 6' 5" golfer?

 

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

 

Absolutely agree. I've been toying with the idea of trying this for years. I think now may be as good of a time as any! Thanks for all your comments in this thread. Very thought provoking.

[Ghost of Snead]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

 

How do you define best posture ? Was Faldo in his best posture ? How about DJ ?

 

Look at tall hitters in baseball ...do they stand the same way at the plate ? Some crouch ... some stand straight up ...

[northgolf]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

 

How do you define best posture ? Was Faldo in his best posture ? How about DJ ?

 

Look at tall hitters in baseball ...do they stand the same way at the plate ? Some crouch ... some stand straight up ...

 

Hey ghost, Baseball is a bad comparison - all the tall players are swinging bats that are way to short and heavy for them, the anthropometic charts prove it!

[rybo]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

 

How do you define best posture ? Was Faldo in his best posture ? How about DJ ?

 

Look at tall hitters in baseball ...do they stand the same way at the plate ? Some crouch ... some stand straight up ...

 

IMO Faldo was not in his best posture. His arms are too straight his shoulders are rolled, his upper back is rolled, he's hunched over, hands are close to his thighs, very upright etc.

 

DJ actually has a lot of leg movement. Much more then you see with say Rory or generally someone of average height. Excessive leg movement is a common problem for tall people. Also wonder if that cupped left wrist is a product of playing clubs that were too short and he found a way to make it work.

 

In more general terms I prefer the posture of Rory, Tiger, and Adam Scott. Nearly straight upper back, shoulders comfortably sitting in their natural position with very little roll, small bend from the waist, etc.

 

Baseball is an entirely different animal. The ball is several feet off the ground and bats used are generally around 34". They play to a spot in the air that is much closer then to the spot on the ground a golfer plays to.

[Ghost of Snead]

Thinking about high level players and club fitting...I'm pretty sure you could give an over length or under length club to any high level player and they could overcome the misfit and still play good, great even.

 

Think it's more important to ask if you were to give an average joe golfer a club that's 2 inches too long or too short, could they ever play to their potential? Probably not, they just don't have the skill.

 

I think this is the right way to look at it. If you gave me 3 7 irons in a fitting at standard, +0.5" and +1", I could probably generally hit the face with all of them. The question is over time which one makes me most comfortable and gives me the best chance of swinging my best swing.

 

There is a length that would make it possible to stand in your best posture and hit the dead center of the face with zero compensations. When you find this length, whatever it is, you will practice and play to the best of your abilities.

 

How do you define best posture ? Was Faldo in his best posture ? How about DJ ?

 

Look at tall hitters in baseball ...do they stand the same way at the plate ? Some crouch ... some stand straight up ...

 

IMO Faldo was not in his best posture. His arms are too straight his shoulders are rolled, his upper back is rolled, he's hunched over, hands are close to his thighs, very upright etc.

 

DJ actually has a lot of leg movement. Much more then you see with say Rory or generally someone of average height. Excessive leg movement is a common problem for tall people. Also wonder if that cupped left wrist is a product of playing clubs that were too short and he found a way to make it work.

 

In more general terms I prefer the posture of Rory, Tiger, and Adam Scott. Nearly straight upper back, shoulders comfortably sitting in their natural position with very little roll, small bend from the waist, etc.

 

Baseball is an entirely different animal. The ball is several feet off the ground and bats used are generally around 34". They play to a spot in the air that is much closer then to the spot on the ground a golfer plays to.

 

I don't have a tool for measuring back angles down to the feet, but I'd like to see what they really are for the folks mentioned above.

 

The point with baseball was that they get it done in varying postures fit to their comfort level - not that the ball is above the ground.

 

I do agree that club fitting techniques, as with swing analysis, can always be improved with perhaps additional measurements and tech. But the ultimate call

is what's comfortable for the player, not a standard 2-3" addition.

[rybo]

Don't shoot the messenger, only using openly available data to show there are significant differences in length requirements of a golf club as an individual goes up in height. The information and science behind anthropometry has already been agreed to and proven to be factual. It's used for everything from designing car seats to bicycles to work stations to furniture to anything that comes in contact with the human body.

 

 

 

[iteachgolf]

The shoulders SHOULD be rolled forward and inward and chin SHOULD be down. Straight upper back would be the definition of poor posture at setup. Especially for golfers with wide/thick builds. Wider the shoulders the more the arms are across the chest at address and therefore the more the shoulders should be rolled forward and inward. This maximizes potential range of motion. For a thick chested guy the absolute worst thing he could do is have a straight upper back with arms at his side rather than shoulders rolled inward and arms on top of the chest. You'd be taking a guy with limited mobility and make it exponentially worse.

[rybo]

And using the chart I provided a 1.5" increase in length would literally cover all people right to the edge of the bell 99% curve; all of the population up to 6' 2". I think the OEM's know this and are ok with it. It's those of past 6' 2" that need more length and much more then we've been told.

 

No where have I said a standard 2"-3" length increase. I'm interested in properly fitting someone like myself who is 6' 4" and literally never felt like I was properly fit.

[rybo]

 

 

The shoulders SHOULD be rolled forward and inward and chin SHOULD be down. Straight upper back would be the definition of poor posture at setup. Especially for golfers with wide/thick builds. Wider the shoulders the more the arms are across the chest at address and therefore the more the shoulders should be rolled forward and inward. This maximizes potential range of motion. For a thick chested guy the absolute worst thing he could do is have a straight upper back with arms at his side rather than shoulders rolled inward and arms on top of the chest. You'd be taking a guy with limited mobility and make it exponentially worse.

So since I'm much taller then average I should look like this

 

 

 

 

Then this?

 

 

[iteachgolf]

 

 

The shoulders SHOULD be rolled forward and inward and chin SHOULD be down. Straight upper back would be the definition of poor posture at setup. Especially for golfers with wide/thick builds. Wider the shoulders the more the arms are across the chest at address and therefore the more the shoulders should be rolled forward and inward. This maximizes potential range of motion. For a thick chested guy the absolute worst thing he could do is have a straight upper back with arms at his side rather than shoulders rolled inward and arms on top of the chest. You'd be taking a guy with limited mobility and make it exponentially worse.

So since I'm much taller then average I should look like this

 

 

 

 

Then this?

 

 

 

Neither is ideal. Way to ignore what's actually said. And if I had to choose one it'd be the top one over there bottom. If the top player raised his hands it'd be near perfect. And he wouldn't need longer clubs to raise his hands. Also comparing someone hitting a wedge to a mid iron is a joke.

 

 

These guys did ok

 

[rybo]

Adam Scott. Arguably the best swing in golf right now.

 

 

 

Straight upper back, properly set shoulders looks a lot like Rory and nothing like Charlie