Big, tall, or round golfer's. Get on in here.

[Howardz3]

I guess that could be a factor that I'm bending to much, but I feel like a longer club isn't going to help me at all. And 38" 7 iron and 65* is correct. And yes casting has always been a problem

[slantsflood]

Rybo- I invited Jim to the thread because he has a lot of knowledge and experience with the subject. I understand that you do too. And you share in the frustration of larger and taller golfers getting left out on fitting and swing philosophies. And I realize messages get mixed, but I don't want this to turn into a back and forth that ends up getting the thread locked with a lot of people with unknowns in their minds.

 

I know my eyes have been opened. I always thought it was the Indian and not the arrow. But as it may turn out, our bodies may be turning these clubs into "junior" sets. And if that's the case, we don't have much of a chance. This games hard enough as it as already is

[rybo]

Slant,

 

Sounds good. I think Jim and I are now on the same page. It's all good!

 

'Our bodies turning these clubs into junior sets' pretty much sums it up.

 

I have no issue with any swing philosophies, every instructor I have ever met has their take on the swing and how to apply it within a teaching environment. Regardless of what philosophy is used, at the end of the day the lead shoulder rotates around a fixed spine and will rise during impact. This is where the problem manifests itself for a taller individual because the clubs are too short.

 

 

 

 

[rybo]

I guess that could be a factor that I'm bending to much, but I feel like a longer club isn't going to help me at all. And 38" 7 iron and 65* is correct. And yes casting has always been a problem

 

The casting is an issue but not surprising. When you compress the body to fit the club a whole load of things can go wrong. Hosel rocket could be a lot of different things, maybe you're having an issue maintaining your upper body position. However at 6' 6" a 38" 7 iron is likely too short. 38 3/4" would probably be a good starting point.

 

What's the length of your wedges? Shorter clubs are more problematic for taller golfers.

[slantsflood]

Well said rybo and jim, and thank you.

 

This whole subject feels like Pandora's box. I think a lot of us fall into this cycle and we dont even realize it.

 

We get our first real set of clubs as teenagers

 

Get married, have kids.

 

Stash clubs in garage for 10 years playing 2 or 3 a year

 

Once things get somewhat normal, we have a little more time and money. We need that challenge in our lives, basically it's "you against you".

 

As time has went by, we either grew up or out, or both.

 

So we are ready to finally get serious about golf!

We clean up our old clubs and get after it. But we don't have the same body as before, not even close.

 

And the biggest problem? Our swing is "imprinted" on us like the fricken avatar movie hooking onto a flying rapture dragon, or whatever the hell those things were.

[Howardz3]

Oh my, that's a long club. I'll try it in a extra 7 iron I have. And my wedges are 1" over as well. But that's the best part of my game, I never shank them and they always play consistent for me. If need be I'm more than happy to post a video of my horrid swing.

[rybo]

Howard'z,

 

Can you hit a 4, 5 or 6 iron? If so then a 7 iron at any length like those clubs can be hit effectively. You may be used to looking down and visually seeing a certain amount of loft for a given length. Don't underestimate the effect an unusual visual can have on a golfers brain. Honestly the visual impact took some time for me to get used to.

 

 

[rybo]

Has anyone ever seen a tall golfer with a club that is too long?

 

I've seen plenty with clubs that were definitely too short, never any tall golfers(6' 2" & up) with clubs that were too long.

 

Plenty of short golfers with clubs that were too long, never any that are too short.

[CallawayLefty]

Has anyone ever seen a tall golfer with a club that is too long?

 

I've seen plenty with clubs that were definitely too short, never any tall golfers(6' 2" & up) with clubs that were too long.

 

Plenty of short golfers with clubs that were too long, never any that are too short.

 

One of my best golfing friends is 5'4" and plays clubs that are, I believe, 1/4" less than standard. I'm 6'2" and typically "fit" into between standard or +1/2" because I can hit the sweet spot when you put face tape on the club. Of course, where I hit the sweet spot doesn't change between standard and +1/2", so I'm not sure what that proves other than I'm capable of hitting the ball with the same club in different lengths.

 

So if you take my friend, who is 64 inches tall, his 37.75 5 iron is roughly 59% of his height. If you were to give me a 5 iron that was 59% of my height, it would have to be roughly 43.6", or +5.6 inches. I'm a realist enough to understand that that's not going to happen, but I have to say I've always had my doubts that the standard fitting system accommodates taller players. If you even start talking about +1" in front of a "normal" fitter, you get all kinds of weird looks and comments.

 

A question - you noted above that you were coming into the ball toe down. I do the same thing. Can you help me conceptualize what exactly that indicates?

[slantsflood]

Good point rybo. And your right, I've never once seen a tall golfer with clubs to long.

[northgolf]

ANY BIG/ROUND/SORE BACK guys can watch the video I threw up on youTube...Just write me for the link. IDGAF if the clique of geniuses here see it or not. They aren't worth my time to argue with. I'm SO SICK of watching videos of ANY instructor/tipster always showing RIDICULOUSLY - beyond any semblance of artistic license - EXAGGERATED swing moves and stating categorically: "IF you do X, this will happen". BS. Flat out BS!

 

Human's can absolutely mis-interpret anything, so all teachers need to be both patient and excellent communicators. Written instructional pieces need to be EXTRA specific and clear when released. I've been thinking about 'on line lessons' after so many of ya'll were kind enough to ask via DM. Butthere's so much BS out there, and I'm so 'hands on' - especially with atypical or special needs golfers, I don't think it's something I want to do.

 

My best professional advice?

 

IF after 2 or 3 sentences you're scratching your head trying to comprehend WTF someone just told you to do or feel - MYSELF INCLUDED - run away.

IF after 2 or 3 sentences a reply hasn't addressed your question while trashing anyone's reply - run away.

IF I'm EVER not clear, if what I write doesn't paint a clear picture in your minds eye immediately, just click elsewhere. No offense, no disrespect, no problem.

 

Go in peace...

 

We're (mostly) all grown-a** people here, life goes on, and that's how it should be. I'm about ready to only reply in person to legit questions and folks seeking PROVEN biomechanically sound swing advice.

Maybe it's just a 'style' thing. Even Ben Hogan (patron Saint of GWrx) said:

 

"Most Golf Professionals are terrible teachers (doesn't mean they're not good players) Anyone can tell their dog what to do, he doesn't need to know WHY you want him to do it. In order for students to learn and improve, they NEED to understand and know WHY you're telling them to do or change something"...

 

ALMOST the only thing from Hogan that actually applies to the gang in this thread.

FYl, you are getting dangerously close to soliciting. If you want to do that, then you need to sponsor a thread.

[rybo]

Has anyone ever seen a tall golfer with a club that is too long?

 

I've seen plenty with clubs that were definitely too short, never any tall golfers(6' 2" & up) with clubs that were too long.

 

Plenty of short golfers with clubs that were too long, never any that are too short.

 

One of my best golfing friends is 5'4" and plays clubs that are, I believe, 1/4" less than standard. I'm 6'2" and typically "fit" into between standard or +1/2" because I can hit the sweet spot when you put face tape on the club. Of course, where I hit the sweet spot doesn't change between standard and +1/2", so I'm not sure what that proves other than I'm capable of hitting the ball with the same club in different lengths.

 

So if you take my friend, who is 64 inches tall, his 37.75 5 iron is roughly 59% of his height. If you were to give me a 5 iron that was 59% of my height, it would have to be roughly 43.6", or +5.6 inches. I'm a realist enough to understand that that's not going to happen, but I have to say I've always had my doubts that the standard fitting system accommodates taller players. If you even start talking about +1" in front of a "normal" fitter, you get all kinds of weird looks and comments.

 

A question - you noted above that you were coming into the ball toe down. I do the same thing. Can you help me conceptualize what exactly that indicates?

 

Your 5' 4" friend is likely playing clubs that are too long for them. Just as you at 6' 2" are likely playing a club a bit too short for your body proportions. How does your friend hit the long irons? Do they just look too long before even taking a swing? Something I would like to point out is like most things in life nothing in golf is linear. Comparing 59% of his height to club length vs your height to club length will only produce bad data. Everybody has different body proportions, even people of the same height can have wildly different leg, arm, neck, inseam, etc lengths. Unfortunately this linear thought process is an all too common theme in the golf world. Since the 5 and 7 irons already have some additional length to them, they are likely not nearly as problematic as your wedges and higher lofted irons.

 

 

A toe down condition for the tall golfer in my opinion indicates a club that is too short. Almost every tall golfer I have encountered hits the ball toe side, rarely in the center, never in the heel. Divots can be thin slivers where only a small portion of the toe has turf interaction. These things are occurring because the tall golfer is attempting to get the club to the ground/ball while still maintaining some sort of natural body position. Where is the longest length measured on a golf club? From the end of the grip to the toe of the club. Tall people are using this longest length of a club to reach the hitting area not because they have bad swing mechanics but because its a natural attempt at utilizing the longest length of the club.

 

So now you have a club that is already too short coming in toe down and the 'fix' is to make a club more upright. As I explained earlier this only shortens the length and the problem of reaching the ground/ball only gets worst. This is why I have been stating for years you can not fix an incorrect length issue with a lie angle adjustment. It literally produces the opposite effect needed.

 

 

Fit for length on wedges and short irons first. Be generous with the length. Determine length progression for the rest of the set from this starting point. Then and only then can you make any attempt at fitting lie angle. You will likely still need some amount of upright lie angles. Personally I use a 2* max upright on wedges, anything more then this and I know the club is likely still too short for the golfer. And going more then 2* will require even more additional length to overcome the shortening effect.

[CallawayLefty]

Has anyone ever seen a tall golfer with a club that is too long?

 

I've seen plenty with clubs that were definitely too short, never any tall golfers(6' 2" & up) with clubs that were too long.

 

Plenty of short golfers with clubs that were too long, never any that are too short.

 

One of my best golfing friends is 5'4" and plays clubs that are, I believe, 1/4" less than standard. I'm 6'2" and typically "fit" into between standard or +1/2" because I can hit the sweet spot when you put face tape on the club. Of course, where I hit the sweet spot doesn't change between standard and +1/2", so I'm not sure what that proves other than I'm capable of hitting the ball with the same club in different lengths.

 

So if you take my friend, who is 64 inches tall, his 37.75 5 iron is roughly 59% of his height. If you were to give me a 5 iron that was 59% of my height, it would have to be roughly 43.6", or +5.6 inches. I'm a realist enough to understand that that's not going to happen, but I have to say I've always had my doubts that the standard fitting system accommodates taller players. If you even start talking about +1" in front of a "normal" fitter, you get all kinds of weird looks and comments.

 

A question - you noted above that you were coming into the ball toe down. I do the same thing. Can you help me conceptualize what exactly that indicates?

 

Your 5' 4" friend is likely playing clubs that are too long for them. Just as you at 6' 2" are likely playing a club a bit too short for your body proportions. How does your friend hit the long irons? Do they just look too long before even taking a swing? Something I would like to point out is like most things in life nothing in golf is linear. Comparing 59% of his height to club length vs your height to club length will only produce bad data. Everybody has different body proportions, even people of the same height can have wildly different leg, arm, neck, inseam, etc lengths. Unfortunately this linear thought process is an all too common theme in the golf world. Since the 5 and 7 irons already have some additional length to them, they are likely not nearly as problematic as your wedges and higher lofted irons.

 

 

A toe down condition for the tall golfer in my opinion indicates a club that is too short. Almost every tall golfer I have encountered hits the ball toe side, rarely in the center, never in the heel. Divots can be thin slivers where only a small portion of the toe has turf interaction. These things are occurring because the tall golfer is attempting to get the club to the ground/ball while still maintaining some sort of natural body position. Where is the longest length measured on a golf club? From the end of the grip to the toe of the club. Tall people are using this longest length of a club to reach the hitting area not because they have bad swing mechanics but because its a natural attempt at utilizing the longest length of the club.

 

So now you have a club that is already too short coming in toe down and the 'fix' is to make a club more upright. As I explained earlier this only shortens the length and the problem of reaching the ground/ball only gets worst. This is why I have been stating for years you can not fix an incorrect length issue with a lie angle adjustment. It literally produces the opposite effect needed.

 

 

Fit for length on wedges and short irons first. Be generous with the length. Determine length progression for the rest of the set from this starting point. Then and only then can you make any attempt at fitting lie angle. You will likely still need some amount of upright lie angles. Personally I use a 2* max upright on wedges, anything more then this and I know the club is likely still too short for the golfer. And going more then 2* will require even more additional length to overcome the shortening effect.

 

Thanks for the insight. My 5'4" friend is a +5 handicap and maybe the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

[danattherock]

Rybo said..

 

"A toe down condition for the tall golfer in my opinion indicates a club that is too short. Almost every tall golfer I have encountered hits the ball toe side, rarely in the center, never in the heel. Divots can be thin slivers where only a small portion of the toe has turf interaction. These things are occurring because the tall golfer is attempting to get the club to the ground/ball while still maintaining some sort of natural body position. Where is the longest length measured on a golf club? From the end of the grip to the toe of the club. Tall people are using this longest length of a club to reach the hitting area not because they have bad swing mechanics but because its a natural attempt at utilizing the longest length of the club."

 

 

That is good stuff man. Thank you for sharing that. I may break my wrist trying, but I'm off to golf shop now with a sacrificial 6 iron for testing. All my clubs are 1.25" over and 2 degrees up. Will get it extended to 2" over and see what happens. I've always wanted to see China anyway. Getting putter at 37-38" while there. And 10-4 on hitting toe side, and 'sliver' (or no) divots, picker and sweeper mainly, since 1989. Ha ha.

 

 

 

Dan

[scottaz]

I lived off the toe for years. It was game changer for me.

 

And big thanks to rybo, never met the man but it was his post's/sharing years ago that got me heading down the right road.

[grantc79]

6'5 260 here.

 

I play single length irons (like 10 degrees upright). All my clubs are built to a 7 iron that is 1 inch over standard my lie angle on all my irons is 70 degrees.

 

I stand very upright on all my clubs so no back issues here.

 

[rybo]

Thanks for the insight. My 5'4" friend is a +5 handicap and maybe the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

 

Interesting, IMO much easier to play with a club a little too long than a little too short. Shorter people have been proving this for a long time. Hell Rory plays his driver at 45 1/2" long at a whopping what 5' 8" on a good day.

[rybo]

Rybo said..

 

"A toe down condition for the tall golfer in my opinion indicates a club that is too short. Almost every tall golfer I have encountered hits the ball toe side, rarely in the center, never in the heel. Divots can be thin slivers where only a small portion of the toe has turf interaction. These things are occurring because the tall golfer is attempting to get the club to the ground/ball while still maintaining some sort of natural body position. Where is the longest length measured on a golf club? From the end of the grip to the toe of the club. Tall people are using this longest length of a club to reach the hitting area not because they have bad swing mechanics but because its a natural attempt at utilizing the longest length of the club."

 

 

That is good stuff man. Thank you for sharing that. I may break my wrist trying, but I'm off to golf shop now with a sacrificial 6 iron for testing. All my clubs are 1.25" over and 2 degrees up. Will get it extended to 2" over and see what happens. I've always wanted to see China anyway. Getting putter at 37-38" while there. And 10-4 on hitting toe side, and 'sliver' (or no) divots, picker and sweeper mainly, since 1989. Ha ha.

 

 

 

Dan

 

Dan that sacrificial 6 iron may not show you what your expecting or anything for that matter. It's already sufficiently long enough to be hit well. Could probably even reduce the length and you could still hit it. Try extending a gap wedge, you'll notice the difference immediately.

[rybo]

I lived off the toe for years. It was game changer for me.

 

And big thanks to rybo, never met the man but it was his post's/sharing years ago that got me heading down the right road.

 

WOW!! Thank you for making my day!! I often wonder if any of my posts get used.

[danattherock]

Jim and Rybo,

 

Thank you.

 

 

Just got back from my test at range. Got PW extended to 2" on way, normally 1.25" over and 2 degrees up. It was actually only 1" over, since 2004 when ordered from Callaway Preowned. So I thought it was 1.25" but was actually 1" over. So added an inch today. Went to range and chunked a few, and that was it. Majority of the small bucket (35-40 balls) were the most solid shots I've hit since I quit playing in Nov 2012, time of car crash.

 

Powerful feeling, striking in center of face, not my norm since starting to hit balls for first time last week in 3.5 years. Aiming at 115 yard flag, landed all over it. Was on Flightscope last week with 6 iron and most were showing carry of 135-140 and longest was 145 yards, with clubhead speed of 78 mph. So hitting PW 115 today, into slight breeze, 4-6 mph from 10 o'clock, I was quite happy.

 

After my back surgery, I'm intentionally swinging very easy, body won't tolerate much in this deconditioned state, and pain is quite bad. Anyway, all I know is it felt good, high draws coming mainly off the face center. Just felt good. Natural. Nothing contrived about it. Will hit same club exclusively and get video soon to see if I can tell any difference vs old video.

 

Any suggestions as to why this extension yielded such dramatic changes in results? Either way, thanks for your contributions here. Would never have tried this otherwise. I know it's early, but I can already tell I'm onto something good. Just lack the understanding as to exactly what it is.

 

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

[danattherock]

Rybo said..

 

"A toe down condition for the tall golfer in my opinion indicates a club that is too short. Almost every tall golfer I have encountered hits the ball toe side, rarely in the center, never in the heel. Divots can be thin slivers where only a small portion of the toe has turf interaction. These things are occurring because the tall golfer is attempting to get the club to the ground/ball while still maintaining some sort of natural body position. Where is the longest length measured on a golf club? From the end of the grip to the toe of the club. Tall people are using this longest length of a club to reach the hitting area not because they have bad swing mechanics but because its a natural attempt at utilizing the longest length of the club."

 

 

That is good stuff man. Thank you for sharing that. I may break my wrist trying, but I'm off to golf shop now with a sacrificial 6 iron for testing. All my clubs are 1.25" over and 2 degrees up. Will get it extended to 2" over and see what happens. I've always wanted to see China anyway. Getting putter at 37-38" while there. And 10-4 on hitting toe side, and 'sliver' (or no) divots, picker and sweeper mainly, since 1989. Ha ha.

 

 

 

Dan

 

Dan that sacrificial 6 iron may not show you what your expecting or anything for that matter. It's already sufficiently long enough to be hit well. Could probably even reduce the length and you could still hit it. Try extending a gap wedge, you'll notice the difference immediately.

 

 

 

I read that last paragraph in your post this morning before heading to golf shop, regarding starting with extending a shorter club first. That's why I had the PW extended. Thanks for the insights, greatly appreciated.

 

 

Dan

[danattherock]

I just hit some balls in garage (net/mat) and recreated the good feeling balls from range earlier today once I started making a more decending blow. Appears I was coming in a bit shallow, hitting mat first. Guess the longer length involved with that, as I normally have a quite steep swing plane, with resultant high trajectory, and I'm normally a sweeper.

 

One question, would I want 2" added through entire set, assuming I am happy with 2"? Or is it a graduated thing along the set? Reason I ask, after testing with this old Callaway big Bertha gold set, I'm getting graphite shafts for set of Miura PP-9003's (5-PW) and three Miura wedges. They have stiff Nippon steel, my old norm, but now I need regular flex. Going with graphite as I've had surgery on both wrists and elbows.

 

Thanks for any additional insights.

 

 

Dan

[rybo]

Personally I think everyone should use 1/4" or 3/8 increments. Makes for a more consistent, easier to use set from top to bottom. Again 1/2" is for the convenience of the OEM's.

 

I am now using 1/8" spacing after a single length experiment and really liking it.

 

 

 

Edit:

Using a smaller increment is why I prefer to fit the wedges first. Once I ensure they are long enough any increment will provide clubs that are long enough throughout the rest of the set.

[Strike Force]

Gary Player at 5'6" with basketball Hall of Famer Yao Ming 7'6"

 

[Strike Force]

Friggin AWESOME...just made my day. What a great pic. Thanks for that

 

Almost scary...

 

[Strike Force]

John Daly and Yao Ming

[danattherock]

Holy cow. John Daly looks like a pudgy 3rd grader with alcohol and gambling propensities.

[dan360]

6'1 313lbs Long torso, long arms, short(er) legs. Normally play standard length 2° flat with Mizuno and Ping.

 

Have a set of Adams CB3 standard lie +1" I've been messing around with. Seems to work with a little less strain on the lower back.

 

May try to bend up my 33s and add a shaft extension...see what happens.

 

I've never seen my swing on a video or in pictures but those I've played with say it looks a bit like Lee Trevino (?)

[notsohard]

Great thread.

[rybo]

Gary Player at 5'6" with basketball Hall of Famer Yao Ming 7'6"

 

 

So +1/2" & 1* up should do it!!