Mind Blown -- The BEST DRILL EVER

[GMR]

Thanks for posting this....I had never heard of this concept until now. I purposely stay away from the instruction forum so I don't potentially get hit with a ban stick.

 

This offseason I finally resolved to fix my OTT move. To do that, I've had to deconstruct my swing where I'm taking the club away on plane, dropping inside and then not releasing early (which I used to have to do all the time, and got pretty good at). I've been struggling with the release part, except if I swing really really slow, where a ball might go 30 yards. The first time I tried this mental throwing technique with my left hand or right hand only (indoors on a camera, didn't actually throw the club), I saw that I could do this! As the OP said, you have to come inside, under the plane with some lag or else you will stick the club in the ground. I can feel now what I need to do. The trick is putting it together and untraining my body from how I used to release the club. But at least I have a training aid to help get the feel now.

Glad it helps. I can't stress though that the most helpful thing here is actually doing it--go outside and throw a club, either one-handed or two-handed doesn't matter too much. You may get different results than you expected (i.e. the club coming out 45* over your left shoulder). With some things you can easily picture what it might feel like, but this isn't one of those things. Throw some clubs and you might just have an epiphany!

[newportbeach]

I'm going to give this a try very interesting. Could be useful to speed up rounds at my local muni too :-)

[alfriday]

Thanks for posting this....I had never heard of this concept until now. I purposely stay away from the instruction forum so I don't potentially get hit with a ban stick.

 

This offseason I finally resolved to fix my OTT move. To do that, I've had to deconstruct my swing where I'm taking the club away on plane, dropping inside and then not releasing early (which I used to have to do all the time, and got pretty good at). I've been struggling with the release part, except if I swing really really slow, where a ball might go 30 yards. The first time I tried this mental throwing technique with my left hand or right hand only (indoors on a camera, didn't actually throw the club), I saw that I could do this! As the OP said, you have to come inside, under the plane with some lag or else you will stick the club in the ground. I can feel now what I need to do. The trick is putting it together and untraining my body from how I used to release the club. But at least I have a training aid to help get the feel now.

 

Check out Shawn Clement's videos on Youtube about getting rid of OTT. He is an advocate of throwing clubs. The big thing he stresses is the mental aspect of getting your attention away from hitting the ball to swinging to the target. Sounds simple, but it can have a major impact on OTT. Get the correct thought/vision/goal in place to direct your actions and do the club throwing drill to feel the movement. Focusing on swinging to the target will accelerate the "untraining my body".

[abrunn1133]

As Fred Shoemaker describes in his book Extraordinary Golf, you need to "feel" what your body is doing when you are throwing the club. "Feel" where your weight is during the move. "Feel" when your hands release. Once you have the "feel", you will then be able to replicate this move with your real swing much easier.

[zacgolf]

Another good video

 

 

[Birdie Mac]

I'm resurrecting this thread Lazarus style. I haven't followed this drill verbatim, but the idea behind it is a game changer. I've been struggling with executing my shots on the course, and have happened upon some fixes that involve manipulating the clubface, etc. Those fixes are not sustainable and don't hold up well under pressure. I feel like I have all the shots I need to score well, but continue to struggle.

 

I haven't actually thrown the club yet, but I did lighten my grip and waggle all the tension from my arms when I swing, and it has made a major difference. I'm basically swinging loose and carefree as if I'm going to throw the club but never actually release it. Works like a charm. I love that this is not a mechanical swing change - I'm just aligning, relaxing, swinging back and through. Cheers and thanks to the OP!

[GMR]

I'm resurrecting this thread Lazarus style. I haven't followed this drill verbatim, but the idea behind it is a game changer. I've been struggling with executing my shots on the course, and have happened upon some fixes that involve manipulating the clubface, etc. Those fixes are not sustainable and don't hold up well under pressure. I feel like I have all the shots I need to score well, but continue to struggle.

 

I haven't actually thrown the club yet, but I did lighten my grip and waggle all the tension from my arms when I swing, and it has made a major difference. I'm basically swinging loose and carefree as if I'm going to throw the club but never actually release it. Works like a charm. I love that this is not a mechanical swing change - I'm just aligning, relaxing, swinging back and through. Cheers and thanks to the OP!

Glad to be of help. Congrats on what sounds like a bit of a breakthrough!

[mstram]

I too first saw this drill in Shoemaker's "Extraordinary Golf".

 

It's not necessary to actually let go of the club (i.e "really" throw it).

 

I get (and have taught people) the same feel by just "forgetting 'golf swing'", and make a motion as if you were going to throw the club.

 

It helps golfers who are restricting / have no concept of a "release" /and or have no lower body action (all arms).

 

Admittedly only a "sample of one", but I used this drill on an (very) occasional golfer at a pre-round warm up at the range.

 

After ~10 minutes of doing the drill, he went from an extremely restricted / over controlled motion that was producing ~160-170 yard sliced drives, to a decent motion ~200 yds+ with straigth-ish flight.

 

He kept working on it during the round, and on the ~15th hole or so, "unleashed" a drive that went ~280 ! This the same guy, who a couple of hours ago was barely getting 170 yds on his driver

[GungHoGolf]

My favorite sequence from Extraordinary Golf:

 

[nitram]

What a wonderful, informative thread. The pics from the post above speak volumes.

 

Funny, this is how I was originally taught to get the feel for a full swing almost 40 years ago.

[WILDTHING]

Strange thing is that Ernest Jones advocated this back in the 1930's .

[sheldonjhacker]

Strange thing is that Ernest Jones advocated this back in the 1930's .

Good fundamentals are timeless ! :nyam:

[tinman143]

GMR - how is this feel holding up for you?

 

For others that have successfully thrown a club far and straight consistently, has it translated to hitting a ball straight for you?

[High Draw]

I really like how throwing the clubs makes you extend through the swing as I have battled the chicken wing in my swing, off and on in the past. Thanks!

[danielryanw]

For those of you trying this drill, try it with a dodgeball kept between your arms. Then use the dodgeball for when you incorporate a ball.

This will help you feel what it's like to have passive hands, to have your arms and body in sync (keeping hands in front of the chest) and will show you how the rotation of the torso is what squares the club face.

 

If you are someone who is OOT, hits pushes/push-fades/pull-hooks, who drops the right shoulder, gets stuck/pinched, are too handsy and hit fat and thin shots then use the dodgeball between the arms and place a stick/rod/shaft 5 yards out in front of you. Your objective is to either focus on hitting the stick or hitting shots to the left of the stick while keeping the dodgeball between your arms. This will also give you the feel of what it's like to swing/rotate through the ball and not at it while being synced up.

 

Do it slow hitting 1/2 to 3/4 shots to begin with. Keep backswing thoughts out of your head!

Remember try not to be too mechanical, and keep it fluid. Don't be discouraged with ball striking consistency in the beginning: too often we expect these drills to immediately remedy our ball striking. That's usually the last thing to fall into place once the correct motion is down.

 

When you start to get it you'll feel how the body is swinging the hands/club (and squaring the club face) and it'll have a sensation of pressure in your right hand and up your right arm.

 

Good luck!

[nitram]

For those of you trying this drill, try it with a dodgeball kept between your arms. Then use the dodgeball for when you incorporate a ball.

This will help you feel what it's like to have passive hands, to have your arms and body in sync (keeping hands in front of the chest) and will show you how the rotation of the torso is what squares the club face.

 

If you are someone who is OOT, hits pushes/push-fades/pull-hooks, who drops the right shoulder, gets stuck/pinched, are too handsy and hit fat and thin shots then use the dodgeball between the arms and place a stick/rod/shaft 5 yards out in front of you. Your objective is to either focus on hitting the stick or hitting shots to the left of the stick while keeping the dodgeball between your arms. This will also give you the feel of what it's like to swing/rotate through the ball and not at it while being synced up.

 

Do it slow hitting 1/2 to 3/4 shots to begin with. Keep backswing thoughts out of your head!

Remember try not to be too mechanical, and keep it fluid. Don't be discouraged with ball striking consistency in the beginning: too often we expect these drills to immediately remedy our ball striking. That's usually the last thing to fall into place once the correct motion is down.

 

When you start to get it you'll feel how the body is swinging the hands/club (and squaring the club face) and it'll have a sensation of pressure in your right hand and up your right arm.

 

Good luck!

 

Great post man!

[Tanner25]

For those of you trying this drill, try it with a dodgeball kept between your arms. Then use the dodgeball for when you incorporate a ball.

This will help you feel what it's like to have passive hands, to have your arms and body in sync (keeping hands in front of the chest) and will show you how the rotation of the torso is what squares the club face.

 

If you are someone who is OOT, hits pushes/push-fades/pull-hooks, who drops the right shoulder, gets stuck/pinched, are too handsy and hit fat and thin shots then use the dodgeball between the arms and place a stick/rod/shaft 5 yards out in front of you. Your objective is to either focus on hitting the stick or hitting shots to the left of the stick while keeping the dodgeball between your arms. This will also give you the feel of what it's like to swing/rotate through the ball and not at it while being synced up.

 

Do it slow hitting 1/2 to 3/4 shots to begin with. Keep backswing thoughts out of your head!

Remember try not to be too mechanical, and keep it fluid. Don't be discouraged with ball striking consistency in the beginning: too often we expect these drills to immediately remedy our ball striking. That's usually the last thing to fall into place once the correct motion is down.

 

When you start to get it you'll feel how the body is swinging the hands/club (and squaring the club face) and it'll have a sensation of pressure in your right hand and up your right arm.

 

Good luck!

 

Great post man!

 

Anyone try the throw with the left hand (rightie), have had some success with it during practice. Also, combined it with tossing it all the way to the sky on the follow through. Nice high shots!

[GMR]

GMR - how is this feel holding up for you?

 

For others that have successfully thrown a club far and straight consistently, has it translated to hitting a ball straight for you?

It's working and something I keep coming back to. I'm continuing to make mechanical changes, but I approach them with a new mindset--not how do I swing while doing this, but more how would I throw this club to the target doing this? What it really does is keep the motion freer and more target-focused, which in turn helps me to harness my speed and deliver the club in a more consistent manner "through the ball" and not "to the ball." As I said before, it's not a complete fix-all by itself, but it's the one consistent feel I can apply with whatever else I'm working on and know that I'm going in the right direction.

[Halebopp]

I don't visit the instruction section very often but I'm glad I checked this thread (despite its clickbait header).

 

I played my last round in late November and I've only visited a dome twice this winter as I've been busy and happy cross-country skiing. I've just worked on my grip, where my backswing should go, checking my wrist angles at the top and shoulder rotation in the downswing. The first visit to the dome, in January was terrible but last Thursday I started to hit some very good shots.

 

I came across this thread over the weekend and I haven't had a chance to go throw clubs anywhere but I have to say swinging away at home with these ideas seems to be working.

 

I take lessons more or less regularly and the last time I had one last year we discussed about the need to get my hands more forward at impact and the low point of my swing also more forward, of course these things are very much connected. The thoughts presented in this thread have certainly helped with those issues. The pro suggested watching George Gankas' videos for help but when I've tried to figure out the moves, I've been concentrating on the positions which has lead to a more "armsy" swing and even more issues.

 

With these ideas of throwing the club I feel like I'm starting to do and feel the things my pro would like to see and what GG tries to get his students do. The weight transfer has also improved a lot and I'm also getting towards that nice, high finish position. The shaft is certainly closer to the top of my head than the neck. I'm also feeling a bit of that tug in my shoulders, which naturally leads to the higher finish.

 

Of course, once I do get a ball in front of me, it'll probably make a mess of everything, the direction of my motion might be way off and club face control might be all over the place but so far this experiment has looked very interesting.

[GMR]

I don't visit the instruction section very often but I'm glad I checked this thread (despite its clickbait header).

 

I played my last round in late November and I've only visited a dome twice this winter as I've been busy and happy cross-country skiing. I've just worked on my grip, where my backswing should go, checking my wrist angles at the top and shoulder rotation in the downswing. The first visit to the dome, in January was terrible but last Thursday I started to hit some very good shots.

 

I came across this thread over the weekend and I haven't had a chance to go throw clubs anywhere but I have to say swinging away at home with these ideas seems to be working.

 

I take lessons more or less regularly and the last time I had one last year we discussed about the need to get my hands more forward at impact and the low point of my swing also more forward, of course these things are very much connected. The thoughts presented in this thread have certainly helped with those issues. The pro suggested watching George Gankas' videos for help but when I've tried to figure out the moves, I've been concentrating on the positions which has lead to a more "armsy" swing and even more issues.

 

With these ideas of throwing the club I feel like I'm starting to do and feel the things my pro would like to see and what GG tries to get his students do. The weight transfer has also improved a lot and I'm also getting towards that nice, high finish position. The shaft is certainly closer to the top of my head than the neck. I'm also feeling a bit of that tug in my shoulders, which naturally leads to the higher finish.

 

Of course, once I do get a ball in front of me, it'll probably make a mess of everything, the direction of my motion might be way off and club face control might be all over the place but so far this experiment has looked very interesting.

Glad it seems to be helpful--will be interested to hear if it translates once you are able to get outside and actually throw some clubs and/or hit some balls incorporating the feels.

 

And yes sorry about the "click-bait" header. Was truly a reflection of how excited I was at the time I wrote it, and most of what I post doesn't get read anyway so figured it needed all the help it could get haha.

[Frohlich]

Ok, so I am a Shawn Clement fan and love his perpetual motion drill. I have seen his throw the club video and never tried it but saw this thread and thought I would give it at try today. I have an extra sand wedge in the garage that I use to swing around the house. Here is an honest recap:

 

1)Drove to baseball field that was 100% empty this morning.

2)First throw to my target was not so great and the club went about 30 yards left of my intended target...and I almost hit my own car in the parking lot.

3)After 4 or 5 more attempts my release was getting timed better but my overall results were that I still tended to release my club left of target.

4)My club seem to have a low flight even when I tried to aim higher.

5)on my last attempt I was aiming at a fence about 30 yards away and hit my target...and snapped by club in half...you can't make this stuff up folks.

6)Tried to take it to the range right after I tried this on the baseball field and was hitting weak right shots. I realize I didn't give it a fair shot but after about 20 tries I just switched back to my regular swing thoughts.

 

Still like Shawn and still like the perpetual motion drill but this one just hasn't sunk in yet for me.

[wadesworld]

You should really, really look at the teachings of Shawn Clement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/clemshaw

 

I believe with every fiber of my being Shawn has found the right and best way to learn the golf swing, and conventional instruction has done more to hurt the average golfer than help. Note that these concepts are not exclusive to Shawn. As others have pointed out, Fred Shoemaker is an example of another pro teaching similar concepts. But I think Shawn has done the best job of bringing it together.

 

Shawn is all about giving your brain a task and getting out of its way. The better you can do so, the better a golfer you will be.

 

Conventional instruction can work, but there's only a subset of golfers for which it will work. Let's take the example of the pro trying to teach the hacker how to "swing out to the right" by putting an alignment rod a few yards out and saying "start the ball to the right of that."

 

There are three types of golfers who will respond differently to this drill.

 

1) The "natural athletes." These people just get it, and they don't know why. They realize if they want the ball to start to right, they're going to have to get behind the ball, and let the club swing to a target to the right, rather than trying to hit the ball. Actually, they don't really realize it, they just do it. That's why they're natural athletes.

 

2) The "eventually I'll get it crowd." These people will sit on the range and do 10,000 repetitions of the drill. Eventually, just through habit or on about repetition 9, 950, they go "Aha!!! THAT's what the pro is wanting me to feel."

 

3) The "I'll never get it crowd." (My crowd). We stand on the range and do our 10,000 repetitions. We take another 5 lessons. But we just can't get it. We're making a confused, awkward swing. The pro tells us "you have to get worse before you'll get better. Keep at it." But we just don't. The only thing we know is that the minute we get on the golf course, we revert to our old ways.

 

Shawn has taught me the absolute best way to swing the club is to give my brain a task, and get out of the way. When you stop trying to control the club and just let it swing utilizing gravity, you get the most beautiful weight shift, contact, compression, release and penetrating ball flight. You will NOT get those things when you're focusing on body parts, trying to start the downswing by bumping your left hip, or any other number of crazy things conventional instruction tries to tell us to do.

 

Now, will you become a scratch golfer overnight using Shawn's teachings? Not likely. One of the bigger struggles is that it's very hard to resist the temptation to be in control. Frequently this desire will overwhelm you, and it will ruin the swing you're tying to allow to happen. Or, something will distract your mind in the backswing and having lost its target, your brain will default to the ball, again, resulting in a less-than-optimal swing.

 

Additionally, the more we practice a task, the better we get at it. So if you only play once a month, it's unlikely you're going to be scoring in the 70s just because of Shawn's teachings. But it's the practicing of the task and giving up control which makes us better, not the mechanical repetition of positions.

 

Shawn's revelations of utilizing gravity and letting go of control were paradigm altering for me. No pro in my 40 years of taking lessons had ever said the word "gravity" to me or talked to me about focusing on a task rather than mechanics.

 

There are some people who can swing around swim noodles and eventually get it. That's certainly evidenced by the fact there are good golfers who have learned only via conventional instruction. However, I remain steadfast in my belief that they became good almost in spite of conventional instruction, rather than because of it. Conventional instructors are very good at diagnosing your faults. However, they are not nearly as good at teaching you the fix in a manner that doesn't have you focusing on body parts.

 

Like I said, you sound the perfect candidate for Shawn's teaching. Check it out and let me know if you have questions.

[wadesworld]

Ok, so I am a Shawn Clement fan and love his perpetual motion drill. I have seen his throw the club video and never tried it but saw this thread and thought I would give it at try today. I have an extra sand wedge in the garage that I use to swing around the house. Here is an honest recap:

 

1)Drove to baseball field that was 100% empty this morning.

2)First throw to my target was not so great and the club went about 30 yards left of my intended target...and I almost hit my own car in the parking lot.

3)After 4 or 5 more attempts my release was getting timed better but my overall results were that I still tended to release my club left of target.

4)My club seem to have a low flight even when I tried to aim higher.

5)on my last attempt I was aiming at a fence about 30 yards away and hit my target...and snapped by club in half...you can't make this stuff up folks.

6)Tried to take it to the range right after I tried this on the baseball field and was hitting weak right shots. I realize I didn't give it a fair shot but after about 20 tries I just switched back to my regular swing thoughts.

 

Still like Shawn and still like the perpetual motion drill but this one just hasn't sunk in yet for me.

 

Not every metaphor clicks for every person. That's why Shawn uses several (throw the club, cut the dandelion, slash the sword, hammer through the doorframe).

 

The one that has worked the most effectively for me lately is paying attention to the dynamic weight (aka ball on a string):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlFjKP1fItQ

[BreakingPar]

Great discussion, very enjoyable thread. Thanks OP!

[Frohlich]

This is my favorite video of shawn's..the one that resonates for me. Only started trying it a few weeks ago. Pretty darn good on the range with it but still not 100% ingrained and still revert to bad habits on the course. But when it works I have hit some really flush shots with it. Just need to stick with it.

 

Perpetual Motion

[me05501]

Great stuff, great thread. I have a field near my house where I should be able to throw some clubs soon.

 

Short of that, I tried to use something that seems quite similar today at the range. It worked pretty well so I thought I'd share.

 

It has always been hard for me to create the "WHOOSH!" sound past the ball position with two hands on the club. I've tried it with the club held normally and with it held upside down. My WHOOSH always begins before the ball. It may get louder past the ball, but I can hear the power gradually beginning to leak out before the clubhead reaches the ball position.

 

Today I tried making practice swings one-handed. It turns out that I can make the whoosh sound 100% beyond the ball position using either hand by itself. It's only when I put both hands on the club that I struggle.

 

This drill feels sort of normal with my left arm, but it feels quite different for my right. Obviously my "normal" motion involves losing that right wrist angle and power before the ball. This is consistent with all the video I've watched and the fact that my swing speed rarely breaks 90 though I'm quite fit.

 

After taking several right-hand only swings with the WHOOSH coming past the ball position, I usually stripe the ball, long and high, and the swing feels effortless.

 

Hopefully this drill will finally help me start using my right arm correctly. The bonus is that I can easily do it on the course, since it doesn't involve hitting a ball (or chucking a club!).

[Smash Factors]

I took the advice of this thread and started tossing my girlfriend around a little bit.

 

She goes into the kitchen much more often now.

[Frohlich]

I took the advice of this thread and started tossing my girlfriend around a little bit.

 

She goes into the kitchen much more often now.

#METOO

[27x10.5]

The feel of throwing the club definitely helps me...but isn't this a direct contradiction of Waldron and Gankas's "leave the hands up"? Seems so opposite to me

[cmckelvmi]

Great thread! I am definitely going to give this a try as it appeals to my baseball instincts. I have struggled with being OTT and will try anything to cure it. When I read and watch Waldron or George Gankas, they make sense and I feel like I can do it in slo-motion. However, put a ball in front of me and I am back to struggling.

 

Questions: How much damage does this do to clubs? Do I have to count on using an older club that I no longer use?

 

Now I need to convince my wife or son to go with me to the park so I don't look like a maniac having a temper tantrum.... :haha: