HackMotion wrist sensor

[RichieHunt]

The first time I got on HackMotion my numbers were something like +3 at address, +40 at the top and +10 at impact.  The bigger issue is that I had a very strong left hand grip with almost no flexion at address.  This was because I gripped the club in the fingers and almost perpedicular to the fingers with some forward shaft lean.   This made it very difficult for me to get reduce the radial deviation and the extension of the lead wrist.  I would also look back at old swings and I had very little to almost no extension of the trail wrist at the top.

 

I changed my grip around and experimented with some wrist patterns.  I found that a more neutral grip and trying to use the flexion towards extension pattern worked quite well for me.  But I started to develop this wrist pattern (difficult to see the graph, but I don't have an iPad).

 

 

This particular swing I got a little extension at the top.  But in the downswing it's going into flexion, but also going into more radial deviation.  This made it difficult for me to consistently get a flexion to extension pattern.  The big thing I was working on wasn't so much trying to get rid of the radial deviation, but get rid of the increase of radial deviation in the downswing.  I wanted to see the blue lines steadily go downward instead of that short upward slope (increasing radial deviation and then rapidly going into ulndar devation.

 

Finally I believe I figured it out.

 

 

I had been watching videos from teachers like Larry Cheung, Monte, Chris Como and Jason Sutton.  

 

There were some changes I had to make to the trail hand grip, it was really the concept of throwing out the club and downhinging that I was working on.

 

I couldn't quite get the concept at first, but I liked a video that Monte did where he talked bout telling amateurs at a Nike Tour clinic that he just creates all of the angles in the backswing and then unloads all of the angles in the downswing.

 

The key, I believe, is to downhinge starting immediately, even before you start to turn in the downswing.  Even then, I wasn't quite getting the concept until I started to throw the club out with a 'twist' of the grip into lead had flexion as well.

 

I then started to hit some big draws, but once I started to add lead arm supination I got the graphs to look like the 2nd graph above and the ball started to fly much straighter at the target.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[games]

10 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

Even then, I wasn't quite getting the concept until I started to throw the club out with a 'twist' of the grip into lead had flexion as well.

 

Monte and Chase Cooper had me feel like my lead wrist was in extension at the top of the swing.  From there, when you do what you describe it's almost an automatic shallowing move.

[GolfTurkey]

Does anyone know what the characteristics of a handle drag release would be on Hackmotion pro?

[RichieHunt]

1 minute ago, GolfTurkey said:

Does anyone know what the characteristics of a handle drag release would be on Hackmotion pro?

 

Here's a video on that.
 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[GolfTurkey]

17 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Here's a video on that.
 

 

 

RH

Thanks, I wish he had shown the radial/ulnar graph of his handle drag swing.
 

My graph looks almost identical to the Scott Cowx C pattern, but the thing that jumps out at me is that at impact my ulnar averages about 6 degrees lower than at address (ie more radial) and the tour players are basically the same at address and impact.

 

My common contact miss is skinny and from the DTL view, my handle is the same height at impact as at address. I’m wondering if this is all related and the skinny contact, less UD at impact than address and lack of handle raising is all the same thing in that it’s a lateral handle drag through impact without releasing / downcocking the wrists enough.

 

 

[RichieHunt]

Went for another lesson, but this time we just stuck to GEARS because we felt that my wrist pattern was pretty good and fairly consistent.  

 

We still had more work to do with upper thoracic spine extension.  In the backswing, I improved my UTSE by about 2 inches, but I have about another 2 inches to go.  But I'm also working on UTSE thru impact and into the finish.  It's been much easier for me to get the UTSE in the backswing than it is in the downswing.  A lot of it is just trusting the motion and making sure that I'm getting some pressure on the ball of my lead foot at p4 and not 'backing up' the pressure shift in the downswing.

 

I finally checked out how my wrists are doing on HackMotion yesterday and they were doing quite well.  I was getting flexion numbers of +10, 0, -10.  I also did a better job of lessening the radial deviation.  I'm guessing because with the UTSE I feel like I have enough leverage in the backswing to power the club.  Without the UTSE, I would feel like I didn't have enough leverage so I would use radial deviation to get me that leverage.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[slalomdude]

Anyone have a Pro version they want to sell. I stupidly sold mine on here last year and want to get back into using one. Thanks

[Duffer Mark]

Thoughts on the above video on Hackmotion? Seems like some odd swing changes based on the sensor. Would the swing changes mentioned in the video be a proper interpretation, etc.  of what Hackmotion is telling him?

[RichieHunt]

He has it correct.  Depends on the grip.  If he had a weaker grip orientation he would need more left wrist flexion, earlier in the swing.  He would also have less extension at address if he had a weaker grip orientation.  

 

Brendon has a fairly strong grip orientation and has a good amount of extension at address and that's fine.  But he would have an inside takeaway by getting the left wrist into flexion and that would mess up his wrist movements later and face orientation later in the swing and cause problems at impact.  So he's on the right path, I still don't think he quite understands how to use the ground, particularly in the backswing and that's causing some other issues.

 

 

 

RH

[Duffer Mark]

@RichieHunt, am I understanding correctly that the Hackmotion sensor may change one's swing for the better by adding a small loop in the swing? Because that is kinda what I'm getting from the Brendon's video (maybe I am misunderstanding). 

[RichieHunt]

11 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

@RichieHunt, am I understanding correctly that the Hackmotion sensor may change one's swing for the better by adding a small loop in the swing? Because that is kinda what I'm getting from the Brendon's video (maybe I am misunderstanding). 

 

Loop is just an end result.  The wrist action (getting the lead wrist into flexion in the downswing) squares up the face and applies an more efficient force to the club.  If you just tried to loop the club without the wrist action, the face could end up opening too much and that causes a host of other issues.

 

Focus on the lead wrist getting into flexion in the downswing more than the 'loop.'

 

And those are some of the better swings I've seen Brendon make.  Before he was getting this very inside takeaway and he had a 'reverse loop' style action.  

 

 

 

 

RH

[mwiklund]

I got a HM Player sensor this summer. I have a very similar pattern to Brendon with the W-pattern with the wrist moving into flexion a lot on the bs.

 

Doing the "spiderman" move with the lead hand does seem to help in keeping the wrist in a more stable extension pattern but feels VERY contrary to most generic descriptions on how the wrists should move (i.e. creating trail wrist dorsiflexion to maintain a stable/strong club face). Going the spiderman route feels like splaying the face wide open. This makes me really uncomfortable and very on the fence as to whether it is worth pursuing further. 

 

All in all, this unfortunately feels like a rabbit hole for me as I apparently do not fit into the most common problem which the HM people seem to focus on, i.e. creating excessive lead wrist extension in the backswing.

 

On the other hand, the HM has been great in helping me learn to control loft on short game shots. 

[RichieHunt]

I haven't used my HackMotion is a while.  But recently I had been struggling while I was working on other changes in my swing.  I was hitting the irons well, but things got worse with the longer clubs, particularly the driver.

 

Since I've used HackMotion for so long I could better sense that the clubface was still getting open even if I was geting the lead wrist into flexion in the downswing.  And sometimes it felt like I couldn't quite get the lead wrist into flexion.

 

That's when I harkened back to some of the instruction videos other instructors have discussed when using HM.  Particularly the one from Jason Sutton where they talk about the dangers of borth hands not being firmly attached to the grip.

 

About 6 weeks ago I was struggling and noticed that my left hand, particularly the palm, would come off the grip slightly and I couldn't control the face.  That issue was resolved and I started hitting it much better.  

 

This time I reasoned that the right hand grip was coming off the club a bit.  That would make it more difficult to get the left wrist into flexion in the downswing as the right hand would essentially be fighting against the left wrist.  And voila!

 

Started striping everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[gatorhead]

I might have missed this, but the hackmotion assumes a certain face angle at address correct?  I have a tendency to setup with the face closed and I’m assuming if I followed it’s directions on wrist movement and the face isn’t setup perfectly square then the results of the device would be skewed.

[DLiver]

Geez this seems like the kind of device I buy, use a little bit, then find less than helpful in improving my swing.

[CasualLie]

Does Hackmotion still offer referral programs?  i.e.  you have a code that gets me a discount and you get some benefit from hackmotion?

[bbanksp]

so which is the proper one to get- HackMotion Player or Pro? can you get everything you need out of Player?

[Habitual Flipper]

On 7/15/2022 at 2:07 PM, ferrispgm said:

I bought one a couple years ago after working with Monte at a clinic and it's amazing the difference it made.  I used it every other weekend for 6-8 months to get my wrists working properly.  Now I just use it once in a while to double check things are still working properly.  One of the best swing aids out there imo.

I'm curious, where you a plus 3 before or after using the hack motion? 🙂

[ferrispgm]

56 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

I'm curious, where you a plus 3 before or after using the hack motion? 🙂

after....getting wrist angles better is a much bigger deal than you would think.....probably because it's not something widely taught.

[Habitual Flipper]

31 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

after....getting wrist angles better is a much bigger deal than you would think.....probably because it's not something widely taught.

That's awesome to hear. 

 

I have had many lessons over the last few years and countless youtube instructors talking about wrist angles (motorcycle move, bow wrist at impact, etc.) but I've never gave it a full commitment. I'd try it for a few shots, fail and go on to the next thing.

 

I've been struggling with low point issues (absolutely terrible fat shots), big blocks, and huge pulls this year so last night at the range I decided to commit an hour to proper wrist angles and filmed my results. I was able to get into the best impact position that I have ever filmed focusing on an extended trail wrist. Basically had a eureka moment. 

 

 

 

I think my ingrained flip is my current nemesis and wrist angles is the remedy. I ordered the hackmotion last night and am going to commit to solving this once and for all! 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[ferrispgm]

7 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

That's awesome to hear. 

 

I have had many lessons over the last few years and countless youtube instructors talking about wrist angles (motorcycle move, bow wrist at impact, etc.) but I've never gave it a full commitment. I'd try it for a few shots, fail and go on to the next thing.

 

I've been struggling with low point issues (absolutely terrible fat shots), big blocks, and huge pulls this year so last night at the range I decided to commit an hour to proper wrist angles and filmed my results. I was able to get into the best impact position that I have ever filmed focusing on an extended trail wrist. Basically had a eureka moment. 

 

 

I think my ingrained flip is my current nemesis and wrist angles is the remedy. I ordered the hackmotion last night and am going to commit to solving this once and for all! 

Congrats...it really makes sense when you think about it.  If you can get the face close to square, your dispersion will tighten so instead of having 50 yard misses they become more playable.  Also, the body reacts to the position of the face so if you get the face in a better spot, your body has a good chance at reacting and moving better. 

[Habitual Flipper]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:35 AM, mwiklund said:

I got a HM Player sensor this summer. I have a very similar pattern to Brendon with the W-pattern with the wrist moving into flexion a lot on the bs.

 

Doing the "spiderman" move with the lead hand does seem to help in keeping the wrist in a more stable extension pattern but feels VERY contrary to most generic descriptions on how the wrists should move (i.e. creating trail wrist dorsiflexion to maintain a stable/strong club face). Going the spiderman route feels like splaying the face wide open. This makes me really uncomfortable and very on the fence as to whether it is worth pursuing further. 

 

All in all, this unfortunately feels like a rabbit hole for me as I apparently do not fit into the most common problem which the HM people seem to focus on, i.e. creating excessive lead wrist extension in the backswing.

 

On the other hand, the HM has been great in helping me learn to control loft on short game shots. 

 

I just got the HM in and am seeing the exact same W pattern. Wrist goes extension → to flexion (p2-p3) → to extension (top of swing) → flexion → then extension into the release.

 

 

I would describe trying to feel consistent extension all the way to the top identically to how you describe it. Feels like the face is splayed wide open...

 

I'm wondering if this is worth chasing. My impact isn't horrible but I wonder if a smoother address to top line would be more ideal.

 

As an experiment, I tried a cobra pattern swing. Maybe I should switch to the type of release. It hurts my elbow though lol

[ferrispgm]

3 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

I just got the HM in and am seeing the exact same W pattern. Wrist goes extension → to flexion (p2-p3) → to extension (top of swing) → flexion → then extension into the release.

 

 

I would describe trying to feel consistent extension all the way to the top identically to how you describe it. Feels like the face is splayed wide open...

 

I'm wondering if this is worth chasing. My impact isn't horrible but I wonder if a smoother address to top line would be more ideal.

 

As an experiment, I tried a cobra pattern swing. Maybe I should switch to the type of release. It hurts my elbow though lol

 

 

I'm in the same boat...start off with about 26* of extension, then go to 0'ish then back to 15ish extension then around 5* extension at the top.  I have found that getting a little less extension at address (around 15 or so) and then feeling like I maintain that until the top where I try and get more flexion, helps.  Maybe I'm wrong, but getting the wrists to flex around 25*-30* towards the top of the backswing is a lot of work with very little time.  10* is much more doable and less timing reliant.

[Habitual Flipper]

5 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

 

 

I'm in the same boat...start off with about 26* of extension, then go to 0'ish then back to 15ish extension then around 5* extension at the top.  I have found that getting a little less extension at address (around 15 or so) and then feeling like I maintain that until the top where I try and get more flexion, helps.  Maybe I'm wrong, but getting the wrists to flex around 25*-30* towards the top of the backswing is a lot of work with very little time.  10* is much more doable and less timing reliant.

 

I just got back from the range and tried exactly as you described. This was the best ball striking session that I have had in 16 months... it was actually incredible. It seemed to really help get my hands back out in front of my chest and then I could just turn as fast as I wanted. Hitting pretty mellow push draws with an occasional semi straight push or an over draw. 

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

[slytown]

I don't like any devices or drills that restrict movement. The golf swing is a motion. When you isolate the motions, you take out the natural reactions of the body that need to happen. The biggest issue with this thing, besides the $800 price tag (sheesh), is that it doesn't allow for the natural cupping a good path creates in the downswing. I could maybe see this being useful for a backswing to get the wrists not to cup at the top, but the downswing is not a continuous bowing of the wrists.

 

Noone should be trying to hold the release or actively bowing in the downswing, which I believe is the point of this device.

[Habitual Flipper]

35 minutes ago, slytown said:

I don't like any devices or drills that restrict movement. The golf swing is a motion. When you isolate the motions, you take out the natural reactions of the body that need to happen. The biggest issue with this thing, besides the $800 price tag (sheesh), is that it doesn't allow for the natural cupping a good path creates in the downswing. I could maybe see this being useful for a backswing to get the wrists not to cup at the top, but the downswing is not a continuous bowing of the wrists.

 

Noone should be trying to hold the release or actively bowing in the downswing, which I believe is the point of this device.

 

I believe that the majority of pros and elite golfers increase the amount of flexion (bowing) in their lead wrist from the top of the swing all the way to shaft parallel. From there, your release style determines the amount of flexion held (turn down pattern, woods/fleetwood) or the flexion is released in a delayed/late scoop (dj/hovland).

 

Bowing is a bit of misnomer though, because in my opinion it implies you have a super bent lead wrist like DJ. It is better to look at it as increasing flexion from address or the top of the swing. In other words, if you are +25 degrees "cupped" (lead wrist extension) at address and into the top of the swing, and then move into +5 "cupped" at impact, you are far from a "bowed" lead wrist but you have still increased your lead wrist flexion by a lot and have likely make a good move at the ball.

 

For reference, DJ gets into crazy amounts of flexion at the top and has huge increase from address to impact. I don't think any coach would recommend what he does, it requires obscene amounts of rotation among other things.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[ferrispgm]

15 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

I just got back from the range and tried exactly as you described. This was the best ball striking session that I have had in 16 months... it was actually incredible. It seemed to really help get my hands back out in front of my chest and then I could just turn as fast as I wanted. Hitting pretty mellow push draws with an occasional semi straight push or an over draw. 

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

 

That's awesome!  I'm glad to hear it!  

[ferrispgm]

5 hours ago, slytown said:

I don't like any devices or drills that restrict movement. The golf swing is a motion. When you isolate the motions, you take out the natural reactions of the body that need to happen. The biggest issue with this thing, besides the $800 price tag (sheesh), is that it doesn't allow for the natural cupping a good path creates in the downswing. I could maybe see this being useful for a backswing to get the wrists not to cup at the top, but the downswing is not a continuous bowing of the wrists.

 

Noone should be trying to hold the release or actively bowing in the downswing, which I believe is the point of this device.

 

 

No disrespect but I think you are missing a few key points.  

 

1. the device is not restrictive aside from price.

2. You do need some knowledge of how the wrists move in order to use it effectively

3. It's useful for the backswing and downswing as well.  It's a device designed to measure.  For example, my wrists may look flat at the top...they are measured at 18* or so extended.  No way to tell without the device.

4.There is literally no way to tell if you are improving without measuring it and that's the purpose of the device.  

5. If you are familiar with how the wrists work, you would notice that they move into flexion until a literal fraction before impact and then they release just prior to and through impact, so nobody is advocating holding a release.  you don't need to have a bowed leading wrist at impact but it should be less extended.

[slytown]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

 

 

No disrespect but I think you are missing a few key points.  

 

1. the device is not restrictive aside from price.

2. You do need some knowledge of how the wrists move in order to use it effectively

3. It's useful for the backswing and downswing as well.  It's a device designed to measure.  For example, my wrists may look flat at the top...they are measured at 18* or so extended.  No way to tell without the device.

4.There is literally no way to tell if you are improving without measuring it and that's the purpose of the device.  

5. If you are familiar with how the wrists work, you would notice that they move into flexion until a literal fraction before impact and then they release just prior to and through impact, so nobody is advocating holding a release.  you don't need to have a bowed leading wrist at impact but it should be less extended.

 

I see what ur saying. I just think as a tool it encourages manipulation of the wrists, which is not what people should be doing. My point was that proper flexion and pronation occur as a result of two things: good path and good grip. The claw podcast talks a lot about the importance of good grip as a basis for all swing fixes.

 

I think all of these tools for measurement are lost unless someone knows how to manipulate the club properly to get to those numbers it spits out at you. I could do a whacky swing like Matt Wolff and still get good numbers, but is it a good swing for me? Probably not.

[iacas]

57 minutes ago, slytown said:

I see what ur saying. I just think as a tool it encourages manipulation of the wrists, which is not what people should be doing.

 

But… those that do need to work on that, really need to work on that.

 

I'm one of those guys. I actually try to feel like I have a flat RIGHT wrist at the top (even arched!) and a SUPER cupped left wrist. I'm a righty, too.

 

A lot of my students need to work on wrist conditions. The wrists fairly directly control the clubface.

 

57 minutes ago, slytown said:

My point was that proper flexion and pronation occur as a result of two things: good path and good grip.

 

I can put people in a good grip, and they can have really poor wrist conditions throughout the swing. Since the wrists really have a big influence on the clubface, the path is often a result of the clubface to try to produce a usable golf shot. Face is king, so fixing the face is often the precursor to fixing the path.

 

Two lessons today I talked about wrist conditions. Both had really shut faces. They bent their right wrist back too much too early, and couldn't hinge properly.

 

No argument at all that a good grip is important. I fix a lot of grips. But good wrist conditions are NOT automatic or just "occur."

 

57 minutes ago, slytown said:

I think all of these tools for measurement are lost unless someone knows how to manipulate the club properly to get to those numbers it spits out at you. I could do a whacky swing like Matt Wolff and still get good numbers, but is it a good swing for me? Probably not.

 

Some decent instructors like to say… "If you're not measuring, you're just exercising."