2019 Rules of Golf

[Colin L]

More than a language change. A penalty area may be established in an area without a watercourse or anything else to do with water mentioned in the current definition of a water hazard.

[Mr. Bean]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

Yes, you are. This new Rule is really not that difficult to master.

 

Honestly, red penalty areas have ONE more option compared to yellow penalty areas. Not a big task for normal brains, I would say.

[fairways4life]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

Yes, you are. This new Rule is really not that difficult to master.

 

Honestly, red penalty areas have ONE more option compared to yellow penalty areas. Not a big task for normal brains, I would say.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say that I had any trouble discerning red from yellow. I said a lot of other people do. But thanks for the snark.

 

If I am off base with my understanding of the change, then do you care to explain what I'm missing? I mentioned that 3 changes that I understood and then asked if there was something else I'm missing. You said yes, but then didn't elaborate. Just went all childish and immature on me. Good for you though.

 

More than a language change. A penalty area may be established in an area without a watercourse or anything else to do with water mentioned in the current definition of a water hazard.

 

This was item number 3 that I already mentioned.

[Sawgrass]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

1) The (completely valid in my mind) differences between red and yellow penalty areas come into play in this way: you wouldn't want to live in a world where lateral relief was not available because too many times you'd have to ford a stream to take back-on-the-line relief -- and you shouldn't want to live in world where, under no circumstances, could the committee force you to always play over a water hazard.

 

2) A key change from the previous rules you didn't mention, which might get many people in trouble if they don't focus on it, is that you no longer "drop on a line" -- you drop in a "relief area" you establish surrounding the line. The importance of which is that, if you don't first select a specific reference point and your dropped ball bounces and comes to rest even an inch forward, it has come to rest in a wrong place.

 

The Ruling Bodies have given up calling the changes and effort to "simplify" the rules. They have settled on the goal of making them fairer an more consistent. They have succeeded in that.

[CheckJV]

Rogolf, here's one for You.

 

I am 254% sure I know the correct answer but in my country this issue is just about to escalate so I just throw it in here.

 

Here is the question:

 

'Player A putts and player B is attending the flagstick at the request of player A. As it happens, B is distracted by a topless female golfer passing by forgetting to lift the flagstick and A's ball collides with the flagstick.

 

Q1: Is there a penalty for the player A?

Q2: If so, where is that found in the Rules 2019?'

 

I am especially interested in Q2...

 

I have lots of questions.

 

Is the topless golfer playing alone?

 

If there are other players in the topless golfers group, are they also topless?

 

Did the topless golfer(s) start the round topless or did she lose her shirt during the round?

 

Is this some sort of “Strip Golf” betting game?

 

Is the topless golfer catching up to Player A and B and need to play through?

 

If it is a sunny day is it within the rules to offer the topless golfer sunscreen?

 

Is this a topless golf course?

 

If a golf tournament starts in 2018 and ends in 2019 under which rules is the tournament played?

 

I’ve never played at Top Golf and understand from the commercials that there are no rules. Can Top Golf be played topless in 2019?

 

 

[fairways4life]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

1) The (completely valid in my mind) differences between red and yellow penalty areas come into play in this way: you wouldn't want to live in a world where lateral relief was not available because too many times you'd have to ford a stream to take back-on-the-line relief -- and you shouldn't want to live in world where, under no circumstances, could the committee force you to always play over a water hazard.

 

2) A key change from the previous rules you didn't mention, which might get many people in trouble if they don't focus on it, is that you no longer "drop on a line" -- you drop in a "relief area" you establish surrounding the line. The importance of which is that, if you don't first select a specific reference point and your dropped ball bounces and comes to rest even an inch forward, it has come to rest in a wrong place.

 

The Ruling Bodies have given up calling the changes and effort to "simplify" the rules. They have settled on the goal of making them fairer an more consistent. They have succeeded in that.

 

So with regard to item #2, once you establish your straight line back you can then drop within one club length to either side of that line?

 

(And thank you for the adult response)

[rogolf]

The penalty area options are well explained here:

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/video-hub.html#brightcoveId=5834153651001&pageTitle=Rules%20of%20Golf%20Explained%3A%20Penalty%20Areas&playlist=rules-explained

[Shilgy]

If you want to reply to part of a post simply edit it.

 

I'd sussed that one, but the unsolvable is the "too many quoted messages" message. ;)

Maybe it's because some of us tend to peruse the forum on mobile and some not..."Quote" is not an option on mobile. "Too many quoted messages" you can handle the same as what I wrote about deleting parts of post. If you're attempting to reply to just the last of a long string you can delete the messages of the earlier posts.

[QEight]

If you want to reply to part of a post simply edit it.

 

I'd sussed that one, but the unsolvable is the "too many quoted messages" message. ;)

Maybe it's because some of us tend to peruse the forum on mobile and some not..."Quote" is not an option on mobile. "Too many quoted messages" you can handle the same as what I wrote about deleting parts of post. If you're attempting to reply to just the last of a long string you can delete the messages of the earlier posts.

 

"Too many..." is pain in the butt when on mobile.

[Mr. Bean]

If I am off base with my understanding of the change, then do you care to explain what I'm missing?

 

Gladly.

 

You said that this change was only a language change while it is not. As already explained by others there is much more to it than plain language.

 

Furthermore, it is my understanding that the Ruling Bodies did consider the option of marking all penalty areas with red but waived that option. Reasons for the waiving are not known to me.

[DonatelloNobodie]

Televised golf will get even harder to watch when the new rules allow repairing any marks on the green. Time on the greens will get even longer as players and their caddies carefully groom the line of every putt. They'll examine every inch for the slightest imperfection and a blade of grass out of place will be deemed a spike mark.

[Mr. Bean]

Televised golf will get even harder to watch when the new rules allow repairing any marks on the green. Time on the greens will get even longer as players and their caddies carefully groom the line of every putt. They'll examine every inch for the slightest imperfection and a blade of grass out of place will be deemed a spike mark.

 

You may have missed the fact that players are supposed to play according to a time schedule as before. Thus players using too much time on a shot will ultimately be penalized.

[rogolf]

Televised golf will get even harder to watch when the new rules allow repairing any marks on the green. Time on the greens will get even longer as players and their caddies carefully groom the line of every putt. They'll examine every inch for the slightest imperfection and a blade of grass out of place will be deemed a spike mark.

 

You may have missed the fact that players are supposed to play according to a time schedule as before. Thus players using too much time on a shot will ultimately be penalized.

 

Maybe in amateur golf, but not on the professional tours. Yes, the tours have a "time schedule", but the players know how to work the system such that no group is out of position and the rounds still take 5 hours. Besides, most pro tour's "penalties" are only fines ($), not strokes.

College golf seems like a pace-of-play training ground for the professional tours.

[dormie1360]

College golf seems like a pace-of-play training ground for the professional tours.

 

You got that right.....not all players, but enough to gunk up the works. IMHO it starts with the coaches, who often dictate what the pace of play conditions for the event will be, if any.

[Mr. Bean]

Televised golf will get even harder to watch when the new rules allow repairing any marks on the green. Time on the greens will get even longer as players and their caddies carefully groom the line of every putt. They'll examine every inch for the slightest imperfection and a blade of grass out of place will be deemed a spike mark.

 

You may have missed the fact that players are supposed to play according to a time schedule as before. Thus players using too much time on a shot will ultimately be penalized.

 

Maybe in amateur golf, but not on the professional tours. 1) Yes, the tours have a "time schedule", but the players know how to work the system such that no group is out of position and the rounds still take 5 hours. 2) Besides, most pro tour's "penalties" are only fines ($), not strokes.

 

1) You are correct. As long as the group is in position there NORMALLY is no reason for a referee to time the players.

 

2) Well, that depends on the penalty. A certain amount of bad times within a limit will result in penalty strokes while other bad times only cost money.

 

My point was that also the new Rules do give referees and committees more than enough tools to keep the field moving. Smoothing spike marks for five minutes per green is not an excuse.

[fairways4life]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

[Augster]

Televised golf will get even harder to watch when the new rules allow repairing any marks on the green. Time on the greens will get even longer as players and their caddies carefully groom the line of every putt. They'll examine every inch for the slightest imperfection and a blade of grass out of place will be deemed a spike mark.

 

News flash, they’d ALREADY do this. The only difference is they don’t poke down the spike mark. The time loss will be completely negligible.

[Shilgy]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

I don't believe red and yellow are still a thing. All penalty areas are red. Except the opposite side relief is gone unless added as a local rule.

[Augster]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

I also don’t understand the snarky replies. To quote James Caan in Elf, “Wow. That’s weird.”

 

You have the changes about right. They could have just gone with all yellow or all red. They didn’t. Red used to allow the 2 CL drop. Now both do. Red also used to allow opposite margin drop, now neither do.

 

I think you have the understanding 100% except your quote:

“But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now). ””

 

The difference to your quote “each will still have their own set of rules” is not correct. Now they are unified. Red relief is the same as yellow relief. They could be the same color, they just aren’t.

 

 

[fairways4life]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

I also don't understand the snarky replies. To quote James Caan in Elf, "Wow. That's weird."

 

You have the changes about right. They could have just gone with all yellow or all red. They didn't. Red used to allow the 2 CL drop. Now both do. Red also used to allow opposite margin drop, now neither do.

 

I think you have the understanding 100% except your quote:

"But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now). ""

 

The difference to your quote "each will still have their own set of rules" is not correct. Now they are unified. Red relief is the same as yellow relief. They could be the same color, they just aren't.

 

Wait a minute. Mr. Bean so kindly pointed out in post #92 that "red penalty areas have one more option compared to yellow penalty areas."

 

That's different from what you said about "red relief is the same as yellow relief."

 

?

[fairways4life]

I think I finally found a good reference.

 

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/players-edition/rule-17

[rogolf]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

I don't believe red and yellow are still a thing. All penalty areas are red. Except the opposite side relief is gone unless added as a local rule.

Not so. It is up to the Committee in charge to determine whether they are red or yellow, see Rule 17.1

[rogolf]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

I also don't understand the snarky replies. To quote James Caan in Elf, "Wow. That's weird."

 

You have the changes about right. They could have just gone with all yellow or all red. They didn't. Red used to allow the 2 CL drop. Now both do. Red also used to allow opposite margin drop, now neither do.

 

I think you have the understanding 100% except your quote:

"But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now). ""

 

The difference to your quote "each will still have their own set of rules" is not correct. Now they are unified. Red relief is the same as yellow relief. They could be the same color, they just aren't.

 

Not so. There are still red and yellow penalty areas and relief options for each. There is one more relief option for red (the lateral option) which is not available for yellow.

[fairways4life]

Relief for red penalty areas = replay the shot from where you just hit; take straight line relief; take 2-club length lateral relief

 

Relief for yellow penalty areas = replay the shot from where you just hit; take straight line relief

 

So I guess the hypothetical situation I gave above about essentially taking lateral relief from a yellow area by taking advantage of the new "one club length in either direction" tweak still does apply. It would take just the right shape of the penalty area and just the right straight line for it to happen. But I could see it happening.

 

Anyone know if that would be a legit move?

[rogolf]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

 

No. Before measuring club-lengths, you need to establish a reference point to measure from. When using the back-on-a-line relief option, that reference point must be behind (and cannot be in the penalty area*) the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area. In your example, that would be behind the penalty area along the straight line created by the flagstick and the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

(* - checking on that)

[Augster]

I'm still not entirely clear on the whole "penalty area" thing. As I understand it, there are 3 changes:

 

1. You can ground your club

2. You can move loose impediments

3. Courses have more freedom to mark more things penalty areas

 

But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now).

 

If they really wanted to simplify things (which was supposed to be the point of the new rules), why not just make all penalty areas one color with one set of rules for proceeding? The confusion that I see with people surrounds the two different sets of rules for red vs. yellow (people often don't know the difference between how to proceed from a red vs. a yellow). These new rule changes do nothing to help that. People are still going to have to know the difference between red and yellow penalty areas and how to proceed from each.

 

It seems that it was mostly just a language change and not really a rule change.

 

Am I off base in my understanding of it?

 

I also don't understand the snarky replies. To quote James Caan in Elf, "Wow. That's weird."

 

You have the changes about right. They could have just gone with all yellow or all red. They didn't. Red used to allow the 2 CL drop. Now both do. Red also used to allow opposite margin drop, now neither do.

 

I think you have the understanding 100% except your quote:

"But it seems that there will still be "red penalty areas" and "yellow penalty areas" and each will still have their own set of rules for proceeding (which are the same as they are now). ""

 

The difference to your quote "each will still have their own set of rules" is not correct. Now they are unified. Red relief is the same as yellow relief. They could be the same color, they just aren't.

 

Not so. There are still red and yellow penalty areas and relief options for each. There is one more relief option for red (the lateral option) which is not available for yellow.

 

Ugh. Re-reading the rule they only allow 2CL relief for red? What is wrong with these people? Why not just make a penalty area a penalty area? No designation for red or yellow needed.

 

I’m with fairways4 on this one. They did nothing to simplify/unify the rules on penalty areas. They renamed them, allowed you to ground and move stuff, and took away opposite margin.

 

Other than that, they stay the same as before. A missed opportunity, for sure, to make the rules simpler.

[Sawgrass]

Relief for red penalty areas = replay the shot from where you just hit; take straight line relief; take 2-club length lateral relief

 

Relief for yellow penalty areas = replay the shot from where you just hit; take straight line relief

 

So I guess the hypothetical situation I gave above about essentially taking lateral relief from a yellow area by taking advantage of the new "one club length in either direction" tweak still does apply. It would take just the right shape of the penalty area and just the right straight line for it to happen. But I could see it happening.

 

Anyone know if that would be a legit move?

Red lateral relief provides a two club-length relief area from the penalty edge. Yellow provides a one club-length margin on either side of the line. These two might offer, in part, the same area.

[fairways4life]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

 

No. Before measuring club-lengths, you need to establish a reference point to measure from. When using the back-on-a-line relief option, that reference point must be behind (and cannot be in the penalty area*) the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area. In your example, that would be behind the penalty area along the straight line created by the flagstick and the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

(* - checking on that)

 

You may be right on this one. The relief area must be "in the same area of the course as the reference point." https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/players-edition/rule-17

 

So if the reference point is in the penalty area and you're trying to drop outside of the penalty area, those would not be the same areas of the course. (I take "area" to mean "fairway to fairway" or "rough to rough" etc.).

 

So it sounds like you are right.

[rogolf]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

 

No. Before measuring club-lengths, you need to establish a reference point to measure from. When using the back-on-a-line relief option, that reference point must be behind (and cannot be in the penalty area*) the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area. In your example, that would be behind the penalty area along the straight line created by the flagstick and the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

(* - checking on that)

 

You may be right on this one. The relief area must be "in the same area of the course as the reference point." https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/players-edition/rule-17

 

So if the reference point is in the penalty area and you're trying to drop outside of the penalty area, those would not be the same areas of the course. (I take "area" to mean "fairway to fairway" or "rough to rough" etc.).

 

So it sounds like you are right.

 

There are five defined areas of the course - general area, penalty area, bunkers, teeing area, putting green.

[Sawgrass]

When taking a drop from a yellow penalty area using the straight line through option, you will now be able to drop one club length in either direction of that line. Because of that new tweak, do you think there will be situations in which you can use that to essentially take red stake relief from a yellow stake?

 

Example =

 

Let's say your shot clears a yellow penalty area but then rolls back down the embankment on the other side and into the penalty area. Under the current rule, you could only drop on the side that you hit it from (when using the straight through option). But if that one club length was able to get you back on dry land (and out of the penalty area no closer to the hole), would you be able to drop on the side other side where it entered?

 

Let's say the shape of the penalty area is sort of U-shaped and the straight line is close enough to the side of that U-shape to where a full club length could get you on the side of the embankment (out of the penalty area line and no closer to the hole). Or if the lines of the penalty area were jagged and one club length was able to reach back across that jagged line (again, out of the penalty area and not closer to the hole).

 

Is this now an option?

 

No. Before measuring club-lengths, you need to establish a reference point to measure from. When using the back-on-a-line relief option, that reference point must be behind (and cannot be in the penalty area*) the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area. In your example, that would be behind the penalty area along the straight line created by the flagstick and the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

(* - checking on that)

 

You may be right on this one. The relief area must be "in the same area of the course as the reference point." https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/players-edition/rule-17

 

So if the reference point is in the penalty area and you're trying to drop outside of the penalty area, those would not be the same areas of the course. (I take "area" to mean "fairway to fairway" or "rough to rough" etc.).

 

So it sounds like you are right.

the reference point for relief from a penalty area is never in the penalty area, but rather outside it. It may be in any area of the course except the same penalty area.