Keeping Club Outside the Hands

[cardoustie]

Hello all. I've had a great start to this season (did a fun post on it) and I fully attribute it to a semi swing overhaul

Namely keeping the club outside the hands (I always visualize Ryan Moore) going back ... and then the Malaska move coming down. Like a true wrx'r I have posted on both moves before but this winter down South it seems I finally may have "got it."

It literally feels like I am making a fade swing but I am drawing the ball most of the time

My ballstriking is way more consistent this season. I've always been a 69-83 guy. Lower cap based on half the scores sort of player. Could be very low when timing was on and also garbage on bad days when I am out of synch. Controlling the club moving up going back, and not rolling, and then doing the same coming down is proving to be some sort of magic move for my lazy swing flaws

Now ... hooks are gone, pushes gone. Thins and fats way minimized. All my bad shots are playable and in play. Scoring range is tight ... and we are having an awful Spring weather wise, cool and damp. (It's like playing at sea level in November).

Anyways, curious to hear from any other players that focus on this type of swing move and what their personal swing thoughts/keys are?

 

[Jkinluv]

If I'm swinging my driver, my personal thought is always to feel like I'm going for a fade, the whole make my hips rotate towards target and open up so my hands can clear.

 

In my iron shots, my main focus is telling myself to keep my head behind the ball. I tend to sway if I don't constantly remind myself

 

Shoot low 80s for reference.

[cardoustie]

@jkinlov. Head behind ball is my last thought before I rip at a driver

I hear on feeling a fade. Hands going left, club across the ball. Small draws. Tells you how inside out I used to be

[ironcat]

What drills have worked for you? I've tried everything but always suck it inside.

[BB28403]

Clubhead outside the hands? That’s how I swing my wedges.

Is it a very steep club path that you have now?

Seems like this would be way OTT

[cardoustie]

> @ironcat said:

> What drills have worked for you? I've tried everything but always suck it inside.

 

Right wrist c o c k s upwards

Right arm straight and above left going back ... from iteach

 

 

[cardoustie]

> @BB28403 said:

> Clubhead outside the hands? That’s how I swing my wedges.

> Is it a very steep club path that you have now?

> Seems like this would be way OTT

 

That's a negative ghostrider

 

 

[BB28403]

> @cardoustie said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > Clubhead outside the hands? That’s how I swing my wedges.

> > Is it a very steep club path that you have now?

> > Seems like this would be way OTT

>

> That's a negative ghostrider

>

>

 

Just trying to understand what you are describing. You made a post telling us the virtues of this move.

Must be “mystical and impossible to understand” ;)

[glk]

Club head outside hands

[Krt22]

Such a simple thing, but such dramatic impact if you aren't doing it right. I got lazy and developed an inside take away, it was the root of a lot of my inconsistency as of late. Had Monte address it recently and tied my personal best 9 only working on it a few times at the range. Should have shot even par but 3 jacked a straight 30 footer lol

[cardoustie]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > Clubhead outside the hands? That’s how I swing my wedges.

> > > Is it a very steep club path that you have now?

> > > Seems like this would be way OTT

> >

> > That's a negative ghostrider

> >

> >

>

> Just trying to understand what you are describing. You made a post telling us the virtues of this move.

> Must be “mystical and impossible to understand” ;)

 

Bb

Google it or YouTube will explain it way better than I can !!!

 

 

[BB28403]

> @cardoustie said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > Clubhead outside the hands? That’s how I swing my wedges.

> > > > Is it a very steep club path that you have now?

> > > > Seems like this would be way OTT

> > >

> > > That's a negative ghostrider

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Just trying to understand what you are describing. You made a post telling us the virtues of this move.

> > Must be “mystical and impossible to understand” ;)

>

> Bb

> Google it or YouTube will explain it way better than I can !!!

>

>

It’s ok, I think I started doing this move this year anyway and just realized it.

I describe it in my thread “musings of an amateur”.

I never thought the club went outside but they sure do. And my hands get much higher than they used to. It adds a really nice flight to the ball.

Hope you start shooting low with the new move.

 

[cardoustie]

the start of this change was an online lesson from Dan where he told me to flatten my hand path ... the light bulb went off

[jimb6golf]

> @glk said:

> Club head outside hands

>

 

Good looking drill. I've also been told to take slow motion half swings that get the club on plane and pointing to the ball both on backswing and downswing. Very similar to what you are doing with the rod. Really makes a difference in swing and contact for me.

[cardoustie]

that is not me FWIW. I've got 80 pounds and 6" of height on that gent

[mattwood]

The very thing I have started working on but difficult to ingrain. Getting the clubhead behind the hands early for me usually ends up in duck hooks with longer clubs like the driver and that shot is the bane of my golfing existence.

[cardoustie]

> @mattwood said:

> The very thing I have started working on but difficult to ingrain. Getting the clubhead behind the hands early for me usually ends up in duck hooks with longer clubs like the driver and that shot is the bane of my golfing existence.

Matt,

I used to hit 4 or 5 of those snipes a round. Hate the toe hook !!!!!! No more

It's a double trick. I used to let it get behind me and lift it. Then on the way down I would really shallow it (again). Keeping the club "in front of me" has made me a very steady point A to point B player ... you just need to be aware of the flaw you have going back or coming down (or both like me)

[kdbrewst]

> @Jkinluv said:

> If I'm swinging my driver, my personal thought is always to feel like I'm going for a fade, the whole make my hips rotate towards target and open up so my hands can clear.

>

> In my iron shots, my main focus is telling myself to keep my head behind the ball. I tend to sway if I don't constantly remind myself

>

> Shoot low 80s for reference.

 

I've been working on this-this year. Have done something similar to drills mentioned but also, don't ground the club so the takeaway is with most of your torso and make sure clubface points towards the ball as long as possible.

 

I am now to the point where when I PLAY I don't ground the club unless it's a wedge - took me from an 8 to a 5 in an off-season.

[cardoustie]

I never ground it either

[mattwood]

> @cardoustie said:

> > @mattwood said:

> > The very thing I have started working on but difficult to ingrain. Getting the clubhead behind the hands early for me usually ends up in duck hooks with longer clubs like the driver and that shot is the bane of my golfing existence.

> Matt,

> I used to hit 4 or 5 of those snipes a round. Hate the toe hook !!!!!! No more

> It's a double trick. I used to let it get behind me and lift it. Then on the way down I would really shallow it (again). Keeping the club "in front of me" has made me a very steady point A to point B player ... you just need to be aware of the flaw you have going back or coming down (or both like me)

 

Just the words "toe hook" send shivers down my spine. This is no joke. When I first took up the game back in the day of real wood woods, I would actually create a small divot on the toe of the driver from hitting so many there. I never have been able to totally fix that issue and I'm hoping this may be the path to fixing it. I did the same thing you did. I would let the club get behind me, lift the arms in too steep of a position and because I would start down steep would have to really drop the club underplane and early extend which gets the hands high and the toe contact. Not much fun to play golf with that flaw.

[cardoustie]

> @mattwood said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > > @mattwood said:

> > > The very thing I have started working on but difficult to ingrain. Getting the clubhead behind the hands early for me usually ends up in duck hooks with longer clubs like the driver and that shot is the bane of my golfing existence.

> > Matt,

> > I used to hit 4 or 5 of those snipes a round. Hate the toe hook !!!!!! No more

> > It's a double trick. I used to let it get behind me and lift it. Then on the way down I would really shallow it (again). Keeping the club "in front of me" has made me a very steady point A to point B player ... you just need to be aware of the flaw you have going back or coming down (or both like me)

>

> Just the words "toe hook" send shivers down my spine. This is no joke. When I first took up the game back in the day of real wood woods, I would actually create a small divot on the toe of the driver from hitting so many there. I never have been able to totally fix that issue and I'm hoping this may be the path to fixing it. I did the same thing you did. I would let the club get behind me, lift the arms in too steep of a position and because I would start down steep would have to really drop the club underplane and early extend which gets the hands high and the toe contact. Not much fun to play golf with that flaw.

Dude ... if I can fix it, so can you

I too wore high toe marks in all my persimmon heads

 

 

[Hot Rod 71]

> @cardoustie said:

> the start of this change was an online lesson from Dan where he told me to **flatten my hand path** ... the light bulb went off

 

Can you elaborate on this? I can't picture it.

[cardoustie]

[cardoustie]

[cardoustie]

[cardoustie]

> @"Hot Rod 71" said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > the start of this change was an online lesson from Dan where he told me to **flatten my hand path** ... the light bulb went off

>

> Can you elaborate on this? I can't picture it.

It was hard for me as well at first

Your hands go inwards going back while club head stays outside and feels shut, not rolling open

 

 

[cardoustie]

Paging Dr. @iteachgolf to the ER

[Ghost of Snead]

> @cardoustie said:

> > @"Hot Rod 71" said:

> > > @cardoustie said:

> > > the start of this change was an online lesson from Dan where he told me to **flatten my hand path** ... the light bulb went off

> >

> > Can you elaborate on this? I can't picture it.

> It was hard for me as well at first

> Your hands go inwards going back while club head stays outside and feels shut, not rolling open

>

>

Another thought that may work for same is as you start the club back, keep the trail hand facing away from you or even a little away and down . If you roll your forearms at all, drag it inside, your trail palm will be pointing up.

 

[ironcat]

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > > @"Hot Rod 71" said:

> > > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > the start of this change was an online lesson from Dan where he told me to **flatten my hand path** ... the light bulb went off

> > >

> > > Can you elaborate on this? I can't picture it.

> > It was hard for me as well at first

> > Your hands go inwards going back while club head stays outside and feels shut, not rolling open

> >

> >

> Another thought that may work for same is as you start the club back, keep the trail hand facing away from you or even a little away and down . If you roll your forearms at all, drag it inside, your trail palm will be pointing up.

>

 

Be careful on this, my trail palm is down but my clubhead way inside and low.

 

Trail palm looking at the target for the first few feet works better for me

[elthrill]

Other ways to think of this to help you:

 

-Club drags the grass on the way back

-Club face looks at ball in the way back

-Hands brush your thighs on the way back

-Pressure with your right hand down onto your left thumb as your start takeaway