What is the one rule you wish could be changed

[Sawgrass]

Making one thing more penal than another is a choice. In this case you don't like it, fine. Many other people don't like it either (though I and many others do). What's of great interest here is your clinging on to the rationalization that your opinion is driven by logic instead of by preference. Surely even you can see both sides' "logic," so your insistence is rather perverse.

In any case, for the foreseeable future, we're all going to have to learn to live with your being unhappy with this rule.

[davep043]

I agree with you, and I believe Tufts does too. He generally seemed to draw broad generalities in situations (cannot play the ball as it lies), and then looks at smaller differences to evaluate whether those smaller differences warrant exceptions to the more general principles. He explains the "exceptions" to his general rule for hazards and unplayable lie. He also notes that these exceptions (especially regarding hazards) dilute some of the more general principles, something he's not fond of. What seems germane to the current discussion is that there's no reason to make an "exception" to the general principles for lost balls or balls OB.

[Newby]

 I question it as a bad and illogical rule.

I think we were aware of that but it doesn't mean everyone or even anyone agrees with you

[Vindog]

I did, many many moons ago, you just don't agree that it should be that way. There's a difference.

 

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[LeoLeo99]

That is not correct. You can play from the neighbor's yard or a public street unless it's marked OB. There may be other restrictions but not from rog. There is also an abomination called internal OB whereby you can be on the golf course and still be OB.

[LICC]

The illogic comes from balls physically unable to be played and balls OB being treated differently. Not being able to play a ball because of criminal trespass laws compared to not being able to play a ball because you may die from drowning if you tried doesn’t justify more harsh scoring treatment for one over the other.

To the rest of the situations and arguments, people here seem to just go along with the idea that some results should just arbitrarily be penalized more than others, because golf is a random game, or golf should be harder than general principles of fairness would warrant. I belief golf would better better with fair and equitable rules.

[Vindog]

We should add "For unplayable lies in Penalty areas the player MUST proceed under Stroke and Distance".

 

That would settle it

[Londoner]

Ha ha. It's the old "everybody is marching out of step apart from my lad" !

[Mr. Bean]

I doubt it pays out trying to explain this to LICC as he will not accept any explanation anyway. So stop feeding the troll.

[nsxguy]

Surprised most of you guys didn't stop 4 or 5 pages ago. LOL

[Londoner]

I agree. Banging your head against a wall springs to mind.

[LICC]

Josh Sens agrees with me: "In American jurisprudence, it’s known as double jeopardy, a procedural defense that protects us from being prosecuted twice for the same crime. Sounds reasonable, right? No such safeguard exists for a golfer who bangs a ball into oblivion, only to be slapped with a stroke penalty on top of loss of distance. That’s two punishments for one misdeed, and it’s unjust by any measure. We, the people, call for a one-stroke penalty and lateral relief."

As does Gene Sarazen: "Golf is a game of luck. The stroke and distance penalty gives luck extra value. A guy gets into trouble at the wrong time or on the wrong hole and it is the equivalent of two strokes added to his card. The population is growing and taking up more space, so out-of-bounds holes are increasing. The double penalty rule is entirely unnecessary."

And Patrick Hruby: The Dumbest Rules in Sports- "Golf's Stroke-And-Distance Rule Among the most punitive in sports. Hit it out of bounds? Can't find your ball off the tee? No worries. Just return to the tee, hit another drive and suffer a 1-stroke-plus-the-distance penalty. A more charitable game might allow you to drop a ball approximately where your shot crossed the out-of-bounds line or entered the woods -- then again, since when has golf been charitable?"Mike Bailey: "Out of bounds rule is out of bounds- I hate white stakes (which are often there because homes are too close to the course) and don't understand why the penalty for white stakes is more severe than red stakes. You can hit a drive off the tee 275 yards, and if it's a millimeter out of bounds (Rule 27.1), the penalty is stroke and distance. In other words, you're re-teeing, essentially making it at least a 2-stroke penalty. And if you didn't hit a provisional, is there anything worse than going all the way back to the tee to strike what is now your third shot? If the Rules of Golf treated white stakes like red stakes, pace of play might improve."Mike Purkey: "But the rules-making organizations deserve a two-shot penalty for an illegal drop for failing to right one of the great wrongs in the rules for which golfers have needlessly suffered for years: stroke-and-distance for a ball out of bounds. It’s the most penal and unfair rule in the game, outside of disqualification. You don’t lose distance when you hit a ball into a hazard, sorry, penalty area. So why should you suffer a bigger penalty for crossing the out-of-bounds line? ... What should have been done is for out of bounds to be played as if it were marked a red penalty area. You could drop within two club lengths in a “relief area” with a penalty of one stroke. One of the rules addresses “equity,” and the penalty for hitting into a “penalty area” should be the same as for hitting out of bounds."Francis Quimet: "But it seemed as though the double dose of loss of both distance and stroke, put forth as the cure, was entirely too strenuous a remedy. It looks as though it would hurt a healthy part of the game- the long tee shot or brassie on the fairway. ... Does it not seem as though the cost of distance is sufficient penalty in either case? I think so ..."

[sui generis]

Scraping the barrel a bit, we see. Some sportswriters no one's ever heard of and a couple of old guys who played persimmon woods and golf balls made out of tree sap a hundred years ago. LOL. Perhaps, stay active, try a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and higher in fiber.

[LICC]

Writers for Golf Digest, ESPN, and GolfAdvisor and legendary players of golf are "scraping the barrel" to you. Sure ...

[davep043]

Perhaps you should add "The Principles behind the Rules of Golf" to your reading list. Its just 72 pages, and cheap: Principles Behind The Rules of Golf: Paperback (effective through 2018 to 2019)

[Newby]

Apart from Sarazen, who these?

Edit:

Reading posts above,it seems being able to use a pen or typewriter make a good golfer. Perhaps we should all carry them in our bag.

[davep043]

Not necessarily a good golfer, but someone who can speak knowledgeably about the Rules of Golf, if we are to accept all of these. As we've seen over and over, good golfers don't necessarily have an actual grasp of the Rules, let alone enough knowledge to tell anyone what the rules SHOULD say. I have no idea of the qualifications of any of these in that area.

[isaacbm]

Yes all of these people agree with you that they also do not LIKE the out of bounds rule. Still doesn’t make it illogical Still just means you, they, and I don’t like it.

[nsxguy]

 

[davep043]

You're right, I see "unnecessary", I see "unjust" and "uncharitable", and I see "too strenuous". I didn't see any who said "illogical".

[KevCarter]

Deleted. Sorry, totally missed the context of your post...

[Londoner]

Do you think at some stage "somebody" may have lost the club championship by a single shot, after going out of bounds? ?

[LICC]

Mike Purkey's comments go to the illogical nature of the rule.

Add Peter Kostis to the list of those who agree that I am right: “You’re penalized less for whiffing your tee shot than you are for making solid contact and hitting it out of play,” says CBS Sports golf analyst and Top 100 Teacher Peter Kostis. “Out of bounds should be played as a lateral hazard rather than stroke-and-distance. The current penalty is too severe. Also, playing OB areas as lateral hazards would speed up play. Many recreational golfers already play OB areas as a lateral hazard for that reason. That and the fact they are too embarrassed to walk back to the tee while another group is waiting there!”

[Newby]

That and the fact they are too embarrassed to walk back to the tee while another group is waiting there!”

A logical reason for changing a rule of course.

But they were really embarrassed for not taking a provisional - not a macho thing to admit your shot may be pretty duff.

[Vindog]

Nah. Just says too severe and too embarrassing. It would be more congruent with the spirit of that particular rule to make unplayable lies in PA's (bottom of a pond) S&D. Nobody wants to think about that though.

[Mr. Bean]

I bet all those people who say S&D is unjust, too severe or illogical consider any vegetation on the course into which a ball may be lost equally unjust, too severe and illogical.

I have grown into this game believing it is a game of accuracy and being successful in it requires not only good planning but also excellent execution. Hitting a ball OB or lost does not sound too good execution and may even be an example of poor planning.

[LICC]

I’ll note you agreeing that the rule is inconsistent, or not “congruent” as you called it.

[LICC]

There is a big difference in the natural environment of the playing field leading to random results, and the rules being illogically inconsistent.

[Newby]

To the best of my knowledge, in all ball sports, if the ball is not within the confines of the pitch/playing area/course. it is out of play or considered not to exist. Otherwise it is still in play, perhaps with certain restrictions on what may or may not be done with it.

The rules of golf are practically and logically consistent with that principle.

[LICC]

Not baseball. Foul balls can be caught for outs and runners can then advance. And in other sports teams don’t get doubly penalized for balls going out of bounds.