My Road to Improvement - swing video 3/15/24

[bortass]

49 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

The answer to this is obviously a new putter.  🤑

 

Seriously though, are you missing 3 footers due to read or execution? 

I am hoping to get a new putter but not sure if I can pull the trigger or not. My putter is close to twenty years old and was just bought off the shelf when I was still a noob.  I want to get fit and looking in the area my best bet may be Edel. There are a few fitters in the area for them. I haven't found much else and I've watched videos of the Edel fitting process and it looks interesting.

 

As far as the miss, it's execution I think. Putt breaks at the cup and misses or I try to be firm and lip out or miss high. It could also be line based though, probably both, sigh. I am hoping the putting matt will allow me to practice my putting much more than I have been and everything will improve. I've read some good feedback on people improving using the Wellputt.

[MattC555]

I agree that practicing on the Wellputt should give you some more information on read/vs execution.  A putter fitting would be great, as they'll be able to tell you how good your aim is.  I should probably do one as well.  I've been gaming the same off the rack Odyssey since the early '00s. 

[bortass]

10 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 I've been gaming the same off the rack Odyssey since the early '00s. 

That's what I'm doing. Bought a White Hot Two ball when they were the craze like a lemming but I have never replaced it even though I do have another putter floating around.

[SNIPERBBB]

On 2/28/2024 at 11:49 AM, bortass said:

I am hoping to get a new putter but not sure if I can pull the trigger or not. My putter is close to twenty years old and was just bought off the shelf when I was still a noob.  I want to get fit and looking in the area my best bet may be Edel. There are a few fitters in the area for them. I haven't found much else and I've watched videos of the Edel fitting process and it looks interesting.

 

As far as the miss, it's execution I think. Putt breaks at the cup and misses or I try to be firm and lip out or miss high. It could also be line based though, probably both, sigh. I am hoping the putting matt will allow me to practice my putting much more than I have been and everything will improve. I've read some good feedback on people improving using the Wellputt.

something on hitting firm putts...if this is something you dont normally do, the tendency is to pull the putt. so if youre not practicing this a lot on the practice green, dont do it on the course.

[bortass]

The Wellputt came in. I got the 13' green version. It rolled out very flat except for one edge which only took a reverse fold to get to sit flat. 

 

 

 

I played the intro 18 hole course and did poorly. You have three tries on each hole and just need one success to get the points. I looked at the harder courses and it may be succeed with two out of three balls and the tolerances are tighter as well.

 

Hole #1 is speed control to Zone 1. Success.

Hole #2 is a 3 foot putt from the right side using the dots and alignment aides, Success.

Hole #3  is speed control to Zone 2. Success.

Hole #4 is a 6 foot putt from the right side using the dots and aides. Sucess.

Hole #5  is speed control to Zone 3. Success.

Hole #6 is 10 foot putt from the right using the aides.  Fail.

Hole #7  is speed control to Zone 5. Success.

Hole #8 is a 6 foot putt from the left using the aides. Fail

Hole #9  is speed control to Zone 8. Success.

 

Hole #10 is speed control to Zone 10. Fail

Hole #11 is a 3 foot putt without using any of the aides on the matt. Success.

Hole # 12  is speed control to Zone 12. Fail.

Hole #13 is a 6 foot putt without using any of the aides, Success.

Hole #14  is speed control to Zone 14. Fail.

Hole #15 is a 10 foot putt without using any of the aides, fail.

Hole #16  is speed control to Zone 16. Fail.

Hole #17 is a 4.5 foot putt without using any of the aides, success.

Hole #18  is speed control to Zone 18. fail.

 

 

I already picked up on a couple of things. My eyes are inside the ball based on the circles they have to determine if they are over the ball. Not sure how much this matters.

 

I tried using the lines to square my putter and I had a hard time with it. I'm not surprised because I can remember having a hard time telling if the putter was aligned correctly or not years ago. The two white circles on my putter are not a magic aiming aide for me like people made it out to be when they first hit the market. The results were bad when I tried to use the lines, missed left every time. 

 

My stroke wobbles sometimes. I saw the putter head start back and then suck in towards me a tiny bit on the backstroke. It is not following an arc consistently. Having the putter head float around is not good...

 

Now it's a question of what am I going to do about it... I'm open to suggestions.

 

Rain today, so no range but I should be playing both days this weekend. 

 

Have a good one!

[bortass]

I did play the orange(intro) course on the Wellputt last Friday night and did much better, scored 50/73 which was up from the opening 37/73.

 

Well, I'll just say this weekend's rounds were a good walk in the slop. I'd like to just move past them, lol. CPO both days and there was no escaping casual water, the question was how bad was it. I would like to say my scores were laughable because of the conditions but that would discount the issues off the tee, including par threes. I was happy with one thing, Sunday's putting. I am ignoring Saturday for putting because it was at the sister course which I rarely play and the greens were exceptionally slow. Putts that should have gone way past the cup were coming up very short. I had a couple GIRS that left putts 60+ feet from the cup and never got the first putt reasonably close.

 

Sunday was the home course and the greens were running as expected and putting showed signs of life. The stats are a bit skewed because I picked up on two holes but I'm still going with things were better. I had twenty-eight putts for the sixteen holes I played. I missed a lot of greens and was chipping which led to six one putts. I had two three putts from forty-five and forty-eight feet respectively. That left me with eight two putts. My SG, compared to a 10 HCP, was +0.3 which is way better than normal. Of course I sank a very difficult twenty-six foot putt which really helps the SG stats.

 

The real positive was my make % for short putts.  I made everything inside two feet and I made 60% of my three to five foot putts, both misses were from five feet but I also one putt two five footers. The three to five foot band has been my kryptonite and I actually did good for a change. It's just one round and could very well be a fluke but I'll take it as a positive until proven otherwise. I plan to try and play the orange course on the Wellputt most weeknights and will attempt the blue course once I get better on the intro course.

 

Driver - a very mixed bag this weekend. I hit a few very good drives, one of which led to a penalty when I went through the fairway and into the lake. Solid baby draws. Problem is I still have the push fade miss. That push fade led to one OoB and two drops. It also caused a blow up yesterday when I hit a push fade with driver into the right edge of trees and I did not take the unplayable, so I compounded my error. I had another OoB shot when I aimed for the left side to avoid the lake on Saturday and I hit a strong pull.

 

Four wood, seven wood, and five iron off tees on par four and fives - Pretty bad. Topped the four wood and seven wood which lead to me picking up and a quad on the two holes I used it off the tee. The five iron was solid but a slight push fad einto the right trees and it took two shots to get out and led to a triple on a par five.

 

Par three tee shots - Some nice looking high draws but still a few push fades. Sunday, I hit 3/4 of the par threes but I was just 1/4 Saturday.

 

Other approaches, a few decent shots but mostly mediocre to bad. Topped woods off the deck, though some were well struck. Heavy irons and the push fade miss. I do attribute the conditions to some of these issues.

 

Partial wedges - These showed some signs of life. I hit a couple of very good ones and overall more of them were solid.

 

Short game - Probably a wash. It was pretty good Saturday and not so good Sunday. I hade the typical holes with multiple chips, sometimes both chips were with my putter. In all cases, my multiple chips were from hitting the ball too hard, I did not dub any short of the green which is a positive. I also managed a great up and down save on a par three Sunday when I chipped from a steep downhill lie in very thick rough to five feet. A very lucky chip.

 

I am still using the right hip feel on all my full swing and partial wedge shots. I do think it's helping. The weather is not looking great this week but I should be able to work on it tomorrow at the range. Rain is supposed to roll in later tomorrow through Wednesday and return Friday and Saturday. Hoping I can also get to the range on Thursday to work on it.

 

A positive sign I saw yesterday is some of the fairways are starting to turn green. Once the Bermuda wakes up and starts growing again, it will help with the water on the course. Winter golf conditions will hopefully be over in the next month.

[bortass]

I made it to the range this morning before the rain. It was off mats which is fine for what I worked on. I did the normal two twenty minute blocks of work with a five break in-between.

 

The first block was release one chips with range balls and my sand wedge. I am just working on making good contact, so I really don't care about distance control. The biggest issue I found is I sometimes rotate my right(trail) shoulder down which causes my weight to shift back and I thin it. Dan Grieves wants the shoulders to rotate fairly level around the lead leg. When I do that the results are improved. I think the block went well.

 

The second block was all about pivot. I did the start/stop drill from powershift. My standard pattern three sets of three drill swings followed by ten shots trying to capture the feel. I used my eight iron and an easy partial swing. The results were very good. It started rocky but I found a bit of a rhythm after the first three or four swings. Ball flight was very good, which I understand is not important with this type of practice, but still is very positive.

 

One thing I picked up on is the feel has changed a little bit. It's matured ever so slightly, if you'll humor me. I am starting to feel like I get the right hip back during the backswing and it is staying there longer through the downswing. So my right cheek is not coming off the wall for those familiar with the wall drill Monte uses. Essentially, my hip focus has expanded further into the swing than it had been. I am taking that to be a positive sign. Long way to go still but I think it will accelerate soon since I think range sessions before work will be a realistic option in the next week or so.

 

 I continues with the Wellputt practice last night. I am sticking with the intro course. I was 50/73 for my score, same as last Friday night. I did not get points on all the same holes though. For example I actually managed to get the points for hole #18 which is the toughest one. It's a speed drill and you need to stop the ball in a six or eight inch band that's about ten feet away. I have stopped the ball in it previous times but only because the very end of the matt curled up a touch. Those balls would have rolled off, so I never counted them. I could move onto the blue course which is the normal one but I really want to improve my score on the into course. I don't need to get all seventy-three points before moving on but I'd like to do better. The blue course will be harder since the number of balls needed to consider it successful changes. For example the blue hole #1 needs all three balls to stop in zone 1 compared to the orange course where only one ball needs to end up there. Also there is some break I am dealing with. Guess my basement floor is not completely level which is not a big surprise since the house is built on a slope.

 

I will say I am enjoying the Wellputt. I think being able to play a course that has different putts for each hole really helps keep it from being boring. It's also good random practice.

 

 

Last night's scorecard just for the heck of it.

 

[bortass]

Rain is due to start later today and into tomorrow, I do not expect to be playing this weekend. The weather pattern has been real bad for my Saturday group so far in 2024.

 

I did make it to the range early this morning. I did the same thing as Tuesday. Twenty minutes chipping range balls and twenty minutes doing the start/stop drill. I managed four sets, 3/10, of the start/stop drill today. I'm not sure why I was moving a bit faster but that extra set was nice to fit in. Overall both blocks went well and seemed about the same as earlier in the week.

 

I used the Wellput last night and Tuesday night. Orange(intro) both times. Tuesday was ugly with a score of 45/73 but last night was my best ever 63/73. I only had two holes I did not score on and think I will move on to the blue course which is the normal difficulty. I still find this putting practice to be fun and am curious how much it will help over time.

 

Go low if you are able to get out and play this weekend!

[ericg33]

Just curious, do you film any of your range sessions?  Also do you send any videos to Monte or just doing the clinics?

[bortass]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:21 AM, ericg33 said:

Just curious, do you film any of your range sessions?  Also do you send any videos to Monte or just doing the clinics?

Only once in a great while and I post the videos when I do. 

 

I did send Monte a video a few weeks ago but that's the first time I've done that. I hope to improve what he pointed out regarding my shift issue and see what he says at the clinic. He gave me three things but was very clear on what order to work on things and to not work on the shift and left wrist at the same time. I'd like to get him more video a few months post clinic to see how I'm progressing.

 

As expected no golf this weekend. The course looked too wet. At least trees are starting to bud and the grass is slowly turning green which will help dry things out.

 

On a completely unrelated topic, I've dropped twenty lbs since mid January. I have also been doing twenty minutes of stretching most evenings. Wife and I like the Peloton evening stretch classes and do one before bed about six nights a week. It's not golf specific but they include a lot of hip and spine stretches, both twisting and non-twisting. I used to cramp up in my sleep after golfing earlier in the day but that has stopped. Not sure if it's the change in diet, stretching, or both. This may not have a direct impact on my scores but being is better shape will improve my ability to possibly play better IMO. 

 

 

[ericg33]

Thanks. Congrats on the weight loss. I probably overdo the video but it’s very hard to self diagnose my swing just on ball flight and easy to try to adjust to compensate for things that might not even be wrong. Obviously someone like Monte is better than anything I can do on my own. 

[bortass]

10 minutes ago, ericg33 said:

Thanks. Congrats on the weight loss. I probably overdo the video but it’s very hard to self diagnose my swing just on ball flight and easy to try to adjust to compensate for things that might not even be wrong. Obviously someone like Monte is better than anything I can do on my own. 

It's a tough one IMO. I know I am not an expert and what I think I see may be completely wrong. An eye opener was years ago when I saw Monte talking about EE not being a swing fault but a compensation caused by something going wrong earlier. So I can probably figure out I have EE, but why? There is the blackhole of knowledge for me. Haven't a clue and there are enough stories of the boogeyman, I mean golfers who go from tip to tip and never get better on their own, that I try to stick with what I've been told. I won't say I always do a good job of it but I try.

 

The lack of video by me is about laziness. It takes time to get the phone set-up correctly and it just slows things down. I tend to not have copious amounts of time for the range, so prefer to spend as much of it working on things as I can. It'd be different if I were indoors with a video system already set-up, I'd probably use video all the time in that case. If I was very good and a competition golfer, my attitude about videoing my practice would likely change as well. 

 

There are so many ways to do things and we just need to find what works best for us and go with it 🙂 

[absoludicrous]

It’s annoying, I agree. But it’s helpful to be able to keep track of your swing over time. It’s helped me to make sure I’m making progress with the things Monte has wanted me to work on. You don’t need to record every session, but it’s a small price to pay to make sure all of your hard work is going towards the right places.

[betarhoalphadelta]

23 hours ago, bortass said:

It's a tough one IMO. I know I am not an expert and what I think I see may be completely wrong. An eye opener was years ago when I saw Monte talking about EE not being a swing fault but a compensation caused by something going wrong earlier. So I can probably figure out I have EE, but why? There is the blackhole of knowledge for me. Haven't a clue and there are enough stories of the boogeyman, I mean golfers who go from tip to tip and never get better on their own, that I try to stick with what I've been told. I won't say I always do a good job of it but I try.

 

The lack of video by me is about laziness. It takes time to get the phone set-up correctly and it just slows things down. I tend to not have copious amounts of time for the range, so prefer to spend as much of it working on things as I can. It'd be different if I were indoors with a video system already set-up, I'd probably use video all the time in that case. If I was very good and a competition golfer, my attitude about videoing my practice would likely change as well. 

 

There are so many ways to do things and we just need to find what works best for us and go with it 🙂 

 

BTW first and foremost congrats on the weight loss and the commitment to stretching... Good stuff!

 

I honestly don't find getting video during a range session to be THAT much of a hassle. I have a tripod that's easy to set up and know exactly how high it needs to be to be at hand height. Starting a video and then taking a few shots isn't hard. I don't video everything--generally a few swings slow-mo and a few full speed, DTL and FO.

 

Although per one of Monte's threads when I start working on my shift I should probably take some from behind too... I'll make sure not to post those to YouTube so none of y'all need to look at my butt lol...

 

The bigger annoyance is that I HATE HATE HATE looking at them on my phone, so I have to wait until I get home to copy them over to my computer. And then if I want to cut them up and put them together (especially necessary w/ slow-mo) I have to spend some time in Microsoft ClipChamp to do it. That gets annoying too. 

 

But I don't know of any other way to checkpoint that I'm actually doing what I'm supposed to be doing...

 

[bortass]

I know what I am about to write is not the smart thing nor am I defending it. I'm just trying to convey my state of mind( I am leaving it present tense since I have not actually changed my ways as of yet)

 

I know video checkpoints are the way to go, yet I have all these 'barriers' with it. The 'barriers' are just lame reasons that let me tell myself it's a PITA and takes too long. My self made issues are, I need to take my phone out of its' case since it will not fit otherwise. I have to get the tripod set to the right height. Add the phone. Make sure it's aimed correctly. Go press a button to take the video. Go look at it to make sure it looks okay i.e. I have everything set up correctly.

 

What tends to happen is I go to the range and expect to spend about 45 minutes to do two blocks. If I do video, I use one of those blocks for it and depending on how much and what I video I may be there longer than planned. I enjoy practice, especially when I have a purpose. So do I practice( fun!) or take video (hassle!)? Video almost never wins with my train of 'logic'.

 

That said, it is starting to look like I will be able to resume my before work range sessions. That should get me out three to four times a week which is plenty of time to practice and devoting some time every two to four weeks to snag video would not have as much impact like it does when I can only get out about once a week. I can also speed up the process if I find a way to mark my tripod to get the height pretty close. I almost always have it in my bag, so it's not like I have to do anything special if I do decide to film. It's just a question of time and making it a priority versus an optional PITA 😉 

[betarhoalphadelta]

You don't have to defend it. Heck, I remember one of the guys in another thread saying he doesn't take video because he feels self-conscious at the range doing it. That's actually one of my own things too--I always feel a little self-conscious pulling out the tripod and filming my swing. I realize nobody on the trash range I hit balls at gives a flying eff what I'm doing, so I got over it. 

 

I understand why you think it's a hassle, but I think if you're able to practice more often and can video once every two weeks, that's plenty. 

[Long_Left]

22 minutes ago, bortass said:

I know what I am about to write is not the smart thing nor am I defending it. I'm just trying to convey my state of mind( I am leaving it present tense since I have not actually changed my ways as of yet)

 

I know video checkpoints are the way to go, yet I have all these 'barriers' with it. The 'barriers' are just lame reasons that let me tell myself it's a PITA and takes too long. My self made issues are, I need to take my phone out of its' case since it will not fit otherwise. I have to get the tripod set to the right height. Add the phone. Make sure it's aimed correctly. Go press a button to take the video. Go look at it to make sure it looks okay i.e. I have everything set up correctly.

 

What tends to happen is I go to the range and expect to spend about 45 minutes to do two blocks. If I do video, I use one of those blocks for it and depending on how much and what I video I may be there longer than planned. I enjoy practice, especially when I have a purpose. So do I practice( fun!) or take video (hassle!)? Video almost never wins with my train of 'logic'.

 

That said, it is starting to look like I will be able to resume my before work range sessions. That should get me out three to four times a week which is plenty of time to practice and devoting some time every two to four weeks to snag video would not have as much impact like it does when I can only get out about once a week. I can also speed up the process if I find a way to mark my tripod to get the height pretty close. I almost always have it in my bag, so it's not like I have to do anything special if I do decide to film. It's just a question of time and making it a priority versus an optional PITA 😉 

Video is a pain to take, and only beneficial if someone (smart) else looks at it. Plus there is a mental hurdle of being "that guy" on the range. It's dumb to be self conscious over trying to get better at this game but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Setting up the phone and hitting 5 hosel rockets is tough on the ego for sure. 

 

Taking it and sending it off for feedback would get pretty spendy pretty quickly. I'd be hard pressed to justify the worth of "self analysis" over using that extra time on drills given to me by an instructor if my time is limited. 

 

 

[Nels55]

I have done a lot of video over the years including quite a bit using a camera or my phone in my home sim setup.  I have a two camera system now that videos every swing that I take and that works pretty well as it is easier to look at a swing immediately after taking it compared to having to load the video from the camera or phone to my computer or look at it on a smaller screen.  Being able to look at every swing with one click allows me to spot my usual swing faults a lot more quickly when I start hitting poor shots.  So, yeah shooting video previous to having my current setup did not not help me much as I am not smart enough to be able to get useful information doing that.  I need to be able to see the swing and then make and adjustment and look at the next swing to see if the adjustment worked.   

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Long_Left said:

 

Taking it and sending it off for feedback would get pretty spendy pretty quickly. I'd be hard pressed to justify the worth of "self analysis" over using that extra time on drills given to me by an instructor if my time is limited. 

 

 

IMHO I don't know that it's all that spendy. I know Monte (and a lot of other instructors) offer monthly improvement plans which, while they're not cheap, aren't massively expensive when compared to some of the other stuff golfers spend money on. The improvement plan allows you to send video swings to him for his feedback w/o actually incurring a "video lesson fee" or anything like that.  That also includes discounts on lessons so while it's not enough to "pay for itself", there's another caveat that makes it maybe not as expensive as it looks up front. I personally don't do the improvement plan (I don't honestly get enough practice time to justify it IMHO), but for someone like @bortass if he's going to the range 3-4 times per week on the regular, might actually be worth it. 

 

But even without that, a good thing in any lesson is to work with the instructor on HOW to checkpoint your own video. An instructor can give you drills, but are you actually doing them the way you "feel" you're doing them? Make sure you leave the lesson with a clear understanding of "when I look at my swing on video, exactly what should I be looking for?"

 

One of mine was a setup issue, and I'll pull stills of the videos I shoot, copy/paste into Powerpoint, and draw lines that allow me to figure out if I'm drifting away from where I need to be. That's how far forward bent I am at address (should be 35-40 degrees) but also checking the relationship between the center of my shoulders and the center of my hands (straight below) and the butt of the club relative to a line coming up from my toes (butt of club outside the toes). My most recent lesson was the thread Monte started re: eyeline, and that's a REALLY easy thing to checkpoint on video. My next thing to target is sway, which again will be easy to checkpoint on video. 

[Long_Left]

52 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

IMHO I don't know that it's all that spendy. I know Monte (and a lot of other instructors) offer monthly improvement plans which, while they're not cheap, aren't massively expensive when compared to some of the other stuff golfers spend money on. The improvement plan allows you to send video swings to him for his feedback w/o actually incurring a "video lesson fee" or anything like that.  That also includes discounts on lessons so while it's not enough to "pay for itself", there's another caveat that makes it maybe not as expensive as it looks up front. I personally don't do the improvement plan (I don't honestly get enough practice time to justify it IMHO), but for someone like @bortass if he's going to the range 3-4 times per week on the regular, might actually be worth it. 

 

But even without that, a good thing in any lesson is to work with the instructor on HOW to checkpoint your own video. An instructor can give you drills, but are you actually doing them the way you "feel" you're doing them? Make sure you leave the lesson with a clear understanding of "when I look at my swing on video, exactly what should I be looking for?"

 

One of mine was a setup issue, and I'll pull stills of the videos I shoot, copy/paste into Powerpoint, and draw lines that allow me to figure out if I'm drifting away from where I need to be. That's how far forward bent I am at address (should be 35-40 degrees) but also checking the relationship between the center of my shoulders and the center of my hands (straight below) and the butt of the club relative to a line coming up from my toes (butt of club outside the toes). My most recent lesson was the thread Monte started re: eyeline, and that's a REALLY easy thing to checkpoint on video. My next thing to target is sway, which again will be easy to checkpoint on video. 

All fair enough points, I have no direct experience with costs, only passing familiarity with things like Skillest and SwingTweaks etc...

 

I'd still argue that the relationship of the butt of the club to your toes or your precise spine angle relative to the ground or the fact that your hips move laterally 3 inches when 1.75 inches is your goal or whatever are all symptoms of bigger problems and correcting them without understanding the root cause results in frustration and more compensations/matchups that may make you better or may make you worse. Plenty of golfers could see that they are swaying off or swaying into contact, but not many could say why it's happening or "just decide" to quit doing it without help. There are simple drills that teach proper rotation though, and the only feedback required is contact and ball flight (and patience.)

 

I'm not against video by any stretch of the imagination, sometimes it's the only way to convince someone that their "feel isn't real."

 

We all know the guy who rolls the club wide open and sucks it back inside on takeaway who's working on "shallowing the club" right? There's a half dozen at the range I go to at any given moment, 2 or 3 of them know that what they are trying is physically impossible, yet still they persist. I'm getting into elitist jerk territory here, no offense intended, I've just seen a LOT of guys go down a lot of rabbit holes chasing angles and positions they see on video while ignoring the root of their faults.

[betarhoalphadelta]

13 minutes ago, Long_Left said:

All fair enough points, I have no direct experience with costs, only passing familiarity with things like Skillest and SwingTweaks etc...

 

I'd still argue that the relationship of the butt of the club to your toes or your precise spine angle relative to the ground or the fact that your hips move laterally 3 inches when 1.75 inches is your goal or whatever are all symptoms of bigger problems and correcting them without understanding the root cause results in frustration and more compensations/matchups that may make you better or may make you worse. Plenty of golfers could see that they are swaying off or swaying into contact, but not many could say why it's happening or "just decide" to quit doing it without help. There are simple drills that teach proper rotation though, and the only feedback required is contact and ball flight (and patience.)

 

I'm not against video by any stretch of the imagination, sometimes it's the only way to convince someone that their "feel isn't real."

 

We all know the guy who rolls the club wide open and sucks it back inside on takeaway who's working on "shallowing the club" right? There's a half dozen at the range I go to at any given moment, 2 or 3 of them know that what they are trying is physically impossible, yet still they persist. I'm getting into elitist jerk territory here, no offense intended, I've just seen a LOT of guys go down a lot of rabbit holes chasing angles and positions they see on video while ignoring the root of their faults.

 

Understood. And be aware that for me, it's using video to checkpoint that I'm doing what a qualified instructor wants me to do. 

 

As I said in another thread, I really love AMG. Their videos have helped me to develop a much better conceptual understanding of the golf swing. As an engineer, understanding things at that level is useful to me. I think a lot of their content is fabulous. But I don't use it to diagnose nor address my flaws--that's what Monte is for. 

 

A lot of people use video and YouTube, misdiagnose their own swing issues, and apply the wrong/irrelevant fixes based on whatever the darling YouTube theory of the day is. And then they spend about a week trying it, it doesn't drop their index by 7 strokes in that week, so they move on to something else. I think those are the folks you're describing. 

[bortass]

There are two use cases for video being discussed which are very different.

 

First there's the use video to figure out what you are doing wrong. I'm in the camp that this is likely a rabbit hole unless you really know what you are doing. Personally while I may see what's going wrong such as over the top move, I do not think I could say why I am over the top. There's a big difference. It's easier to point out the result but the cause is another story. For me, the why needs to come from a teacher. As I have mentioned Monte pointed out three different things that need to get resolved in my swing and the order to tackle them in. I have a drill for the first issue and he pointed out what I am looking for for both the first and second. he's hoping the third may resolve itself after #1 and #2 are fixed, I hope he's right.

 

That leads to the second use case, monitoring/check in. That's what @betarhoalphadelta is talking about and how I'd be using it. Take some swing video to see if I am actually doing what Monte has prescribed. I can vouch for the fact I feel like I am doing it but we all know feel is not real. So video is helpful to see what, if any, progress is being made. 

 

As for the improvement plan , I've never really looked into it and not sure if there's a way to break even with it or not. I know the few reviews of it I have read have been very positive. Realistically an actual lesson is probably every couple months unless you want to hear him say "XYZ is better but you need to keep working on it". Black Friday/End of year sale is the time to check things out. I know I saved quite a bit with the clinic using the Year End sale and I'm sure it would have been the time to snag a lesson pack as well.  Maybe I'll ask him about the improvement plan when I see him in April, lol.

[absoludicrous]

Yeah, monitoring was the point of my suggestion too. We all know what our instructors are recommending that we work on. It’s hard to know if you’re actually improving without video, unless you’re able to get in front of your instructor again. 

 

I had something to work on after a lesson and practiced it for a few months. I thought I improved and was disappointed to hear him bring up the same exact issue on my next lesson. He shows me the video and it’s the same exact problem, but in different clothes.

 

I was pretty upset with myself that I spent all that time thinking I was doing better, but made no actual improvement. I spent the next few months recording myself to make sure I was seeing change. The next lesson I had, we got to move on to the next issue… my head movement in the backswing.

 

I recorded myself recently and was happy to see a lot of progress. It’s not perfect, and he warned me it could take months to see change. But it helps me gain some confidence that I’m doing the right thing and to continue to work through it, even when you might have a bad day. It’s easy to start tinkering with something else when you’re not seeing improvement in your game. 

[bortass]

9 hours ago, absoludicrous said:

I had something to work on after a lesson and practiced it for a few months. I thought I improved and was disappointed to hear him bring up the same exact issue on my next lesson. He shows me the video and it’s the same exact problem, but in different clothes.

 

This is the concern I had with this year's clinic. Was I going to show up and have it be the short backswing? So I sent him some video and he confirmed it's better and to work on the shift.  Now, I am pretty sure the backswing length is not 100% fixed but it's better. The video that would real helpful is during a round not knowing it's being filmed. That removes the watcher effect, wish I could recall the actual name for it. The act of observing changes the outcome.

 

The subject of game improvement is interesting. I tend to find I notice an improvement in micro parts of my game fairly quickly. These micro improvements could be I executed a chip better than normal or I hit a couple more very solid shots. These do not always show up on the scorecard though, at least not for me lately. I find ways to blow up and keep the score just as bad as before I worked on things. What I do know is that my iron shots fly very differently when I make very good contact. I get a very high baby draw, sometimes slight fade, that will land on the green and stop within a yard of its' pitch mark. The challenge is getting enough of these tiny improvements during a round to move the needle.

 

 So we need to learn that the needle moves slowly over time in a lot of cases. Improving our game is like losing weight, it's hard and takes time and discipline which goes against the quick fix mentality that is prevalent. The big picture is our friend. What are the trends?

 

On the surface I should be embarrassed that my index is 19.4. I mean I was at an all time low of 14.4 last September and it's only 19.4 because I hit the soft cap which slows upward movement months ago. I can step back though and realize that my index was 22.3 this time last year and my all time low was around 18.9(I know it was 18.X).  I know I am a better golfer than last year even if my posted rounds are all in the high 90s. Winter golf tends to do this which is another reason I'm not bent out of shape with the poor scores. That always happens late fall through winter. I'll just keep plugging away and realize that I am moving my game in the right direction. Of course it also helps I wrote about trying to break 100 and 90, so I sometimes reread those threads and it becomes more obvious how far my game has come and how much parts of my swing issues have not changed, lol. I guess that's one advantage I have, I'm not relying on my memory of the good( bad) ole days when I teed off with a seven wood, couldn't get the ball in the air, and double bogey was actually good. 

 

Can you tell I like to ramble about golf?

[Long_Left]

27 minutes ago, bortass said:

This is the concern I had with this year's clinic. Was I going to show up and have it be the short backswing? So I sent him some video and he confirmed it's better and to work on the shift.  Now, I am pretty sure the backswing length is not 100% fixed but it's better. The video that would real helpful is during a round not knowing it's being filmed. That removes the watcher effect, wish I could recall the actual name for it. The act of observing changes the outcome.

 

The subject of game improvement is interesting. I tend to find I notice an improvement in micro parts of my game fairly quickly. These micro improvements could be I executed a chip better than normal or I hit a couple more very solid shots. These do not always show up on the scorecard though, at least not for me lately. I find ways to blow up and keep the score just as bad as before I worked on things. What I do know is that my iron shots fly very differently when I make very good contact. I get a very high baby draw, sometimes slight fade, that will land on the green and stop within a yard of its' pitch mark. The challenge is getting enough of these tiny improvements during a round to move the needle.

 

 So we need to learn that the needle moves slowly over time in a lot of cases. Improving our game is like losing weight, it's hard and takes time and discipline which goes against the quick fix mentality that is prevalent. The big picture is our friend. What are the trends?

 

On the surface I should be embarrassed that my index is 19.4. I mean I was at an all time low of 14.4 last September and it's only 19.4 because I hit the soft cap which slows upward movement months ago. I can step back though and realize that my index was 22.3 this time last year and my all time low was around 18.9(I know it was 18.X).  I know I am a better golfer than last year even if my posted rounds are all in the high 90s. Winter golf tends to do this which is another reason I'm not bent out of shape with the poor scores. That always happens late fall through winter. I'll just keep plugging away and realize that I am moving my game in the right direction. Of course it also helps I wrote about trying to break 100 and 90, so I sometimes reread those threads and it becomes more obvious how far my game has come and how much parts of my swing issues have not changed, lol. I guess that's one advantage I have, I'm not relying on my memory of the good( bad) ole days when I teed off with a seven wood, couldn't get the ball in the air, and double bogey was actually good. 

 

Can you tell I like to ramble about golf?

I hit the soft cap myself about this time last year, winter golf can be a bear. You're actively trying to improve which is nothing to be embarrassed about. 

 

I started 4 years ago, work from home and lockdowns and all that left me with more time due to not commuting an hour each way to and from work. Went from not carrying an index and happy to break 80 once or twice a year (probably about a 10) to a low of 2.9 over 3 years, back in the office for the last year or so hasn't helped my game in the slightest but I'm still miles better than I was. Scoring doesn't change as fast as your skills do, it takes a fair bit of time to build trust in any given swing and better strikes alone don't make for better shots unless you account for it.

[bortass]

 

Welp, I snagged some video today. I made it to the range before the rain rolled in. I spent twenty minutes working on the start stop drill and did three sets of 3/10 and closed out the last four minutes just hitting balls with a partial swing like I use in the sets. I didn't think I had time to complete a fourth set. The range session itself was okay. Did not strike it as well as the last few times but that's okay. I don't need to worry about the ball flight when I do these is what I kept reminding myself.

 

The video is with seven iron. Let's just say I had a hard time making decent contact. The DTL Slow Motion and FO normal speed had the best ball flight. The other two were not struck as well. I have not looked at them in depth but the early shift right it still there. What I haven't figured out yet is if it's any better than the last time I grabbed video. This is a bummer but I have only managed a few range sessions to work on this. That's about to change, so I hope to make better progress by the time the clinic rolls around. My guess is this will still be a key issue at that point in time.

 

Feel free to tear these swings apart. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hammersia]

Haven't been keeping up with this thread but I'd maybe go back and have a look at your setup. Your shoulders are pointing quite a bit left, and stick your hips back a bit, feel your weight more through the middle of the foot not the toes.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Obviously you know what my advice is worth on the golf swing... But I do see something here. 

 

How bent is your right arm at the top? It's tough to tell just based on video, but it *looks* like you're collapsing your arm structure, perhaps in your effort to extend your backswing. And like the am in the below video, it looks like you're bending that right arm early too.

 

 

[bortass]

@betarhoalphadelta it's bent. It's something I have noticed when doing  some backswing work indoors where I'm just trying to do the start stop drill in the house w/o making a full swing. 

 

@stevesteven1 That is not a drill. My swing is a thing of beauty, lol. 

[bortass]

Golf has been rough. Played Saturday and it was wet and pretty high winds. They were a steady 17 MPH with much higher gusts which had a big impact on some holes. For example #8 which is a par three with an elevated tee box was playing over 200 yards with the gusts per Arccos. It was a back pin and normally I would hit my seven iron and instead hit my seven wood. It was a very solid shot that missed the green left and about pin high.

 

I want to make note that I had a major mental error. On #11, par four with a stream to carry short of the green, I hit my tee shot into the right rough. My plan as I left the tee box was layup since I would be hitting either five iron or seven wood into the green. I get to the ball and my five iron will reach the back of the green because of the tailwind on this hole. One of the guys says go for it. So like a lemming, I do. Hit it thin, a low push that didn't clear the stream. I drop  and have a short pitch to the green, maybe 25 yards or so.  I chunk it maybe six yards and into the stream... So I picked up. I can't say the layup would have led to a better score but the odds would have been much better, lol.

 

I did get to the range twice. I worked on chipping and putting one day and partial wedges and my pivot the other. The pivot work went much better than the prior week. Rain is forecast for tomorrow, so i may not be able to get out again 'til Wednesday.

 

 

I created something to provide a laugh: