"Bounce" in relation to "ball flight"? For full swings...

[Wardonation]

Title says it all, how does bounce effect ball flight on full swings?

[Aviador Naval]

I believe most folks will say ‘not at all’ but both Ping (Marty Jertson..?) and Aaron Dill are on record stating that under certain conditions more bounce aids in keep launch angle a bit lower.  Believe it had to do with stabilizing the club/ball/turf interaction in certain impact conditions - essentially it assisted in preventing the club head from deflecting toward more loft during impact.  There was an old Golfwrx video interview about a Ping club release that discussed it - same with Dill but his was more about approach type shots than it was finesse stuff around green.

[RobS]

 Some players tend to contact higher bounce clubs lower on the face will can lower launch and increase spin.  Opposite can be true for lower bounce.  The effect would likely be more noticeable on partial shots than full swings though.

[Golfrnut]

Shouldn't at all provided little ball is hit before the big one.  Fully aware that doesn't always happen though.  In theory, the AOD of the club would shallow and it would increase LA, lower the spin, etc.  About the same, but not as extreme, to hitting a ball fat off concrete.

 

The other half of that equation would be how it effects the impact location.  Some will ague, but still a firm believer there is still low side gear effect with irons with contact below the CG.  Whether that's through downward defection of the club at impact or head rotation, I'm absolutely open to discussion/debate on.  With larger heads (fairways, hybrids, etc), same rules on gear effect being applicable.

[Pepperturbo]

IMO - Where the COG is located and loft are more important to trajectory than bounce.  However, bounce and AoA are related.

 

 

[Wardonation]

56 minutes ago, Golfrnut said:

Shouldn't at all provided little ball is hit before the big one.  Fully aware that doesn't always happen though.  In theory, the AOD of the club would shallow and it would increase LA, lower the spin, etc.  About the same, but not as extreme, to hitting a ball fat off concrete.

 

The other half of that equation would be how it effects the impact location.  Some will ague, but still a firm believer there is still low side gear effect with irons with contact below the CG.  Whether that's through downward defection of the club at impact or head rotation, I'm absolutely open to discussion/debate on.  With larger heads (fairways, hybrids, etc), same rules on gear effect being applicable.

I have always thought for a "shallow" AOA you want low bounce? The club is able to get under the ball better and improve strike (hitting it on the higher grooves)? I am a +1 handicap that is a picker 100%. If I ever take a divot it was a mistake. The issue I have with wedges is "HIGH LAUNCH" and my 50,56 and 60 go nowhere. I am always jealous of the "low flighted wedge" with a ton of spin...

[pinhigh27]

11 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

I have always thought for a "shallow" AOA you want low bounce? The club is able to get under the ball better and improve strike (hitting it on the higher grooves)? I am a +1 handicap that is a picker 100%. If I ever take a divot it was a mistake. The issue I have with wedges is "HIGH LAUNCH" and my 50,56 and 60 go nowhere. I am always jealous of the "low flighted wedge" with a ton of spin...

Sounds like you are adding loft at impact 

[Golfrnut]

5 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

I have always thought for a "shallow" AOA you want low bounce? The club is able to get under the ball better and improve strike (hitting it on the higher grooves)? I am a +1 handicap that is a picker 100%. If I ever take a divot it was a mistake. The issue I have with wedges is "HIGH LAUNCH" and my 50,56 and 60 go nowhere. I am always jealous of the "low flighted wedge" with a ton of spin...

 

So we're more focused on wedges I presume?  'Want' would always be very personal IMO.  Personal thoughts here, but I would first try to figure out why your numbers are what they are.  Getting from point A to B could be due to a number of reasons really.  I wouldn't necessarily point to bounce as a root cause unless would are getting to the point where you are hitting the turf before the ball, like chips and pitches for example.  Speculating, but I would suspect what you are seeing on full shots would be more related to something else.

[Pepperturbo]

16 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

I have always thought for a "shallow" AOA you want low bounce? The club is able to get under the ball better and improve strike (hitting it on the higher grooves)? I am a +1 handicap that is a picker 100%. If I ever take a divot it was a mistake. The issue I have with wedges is "HIGH LAUNCH" and my 50,56 and 60 go nowhere. I am always jealous of the "low flighted wedge" with a ton of spin...

I, too, have a shallow angle of attack, and its partially why I play 620 MB/CB with shaved low bounce - 2i-5i = 0 bounce.  When I hit the ball, normally I scrap surface.  But because I hit the ball hard, I still get plenty of spin, even with wedges.  I flight my irons and wedges and use spin to control the ball.  I don't normally hit really high trajectory shots, unless it's needed.

[Aviador Naval]

55 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

I have always thought for a "shallow" AOA you want low bounce? The club is able to get under the ball better and improve strike (hitting it on the higher grooves)? I am a +1 handicap that is a picker 100%. If I ever take a divot it was a mistake. The issue I have with wedges is "HIGH LAUNCH" and my 50,56 and 60 go nowhere. I am always jealous of the "low flighted wedge" with a ton of spin...

Search for @isaacbm post on fitting at TPI Titleist.  Has good info on wedge design and usage toward the latter part of the thread.  Would post it for you but have to run...

Edited January 13, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[JCAG]

Keep in mind, that on a properly iron shot the ball is long gone from the clubface before the clubhead hits the ground. Yet when the clubhead hits the ground it will have a major effect on the feel of the shot and the follow through.

Ever hit a shot that felt thin but was fine? Ever hit a shot that felt thick but was fine?

Edited January 13, 2021 by JCAG

[BubbaBallesteros]

17 hours ago, Wardonation said:

Title says it all, how does bounce effect ball flight on full swings?

TXG have a video on this. 

 

High Bounce = Lower Flight

Low Bounce = Higher Flight 

 

This has to do with the sole interaction with the turf and this will effect the strike location.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuVmYXxIKGA

Edited January 14, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[Pepperturbo]

Thanks, @BubbaBallesteros - interesting video.  I've seen other TXG videos and generally appreciate their efforts. 

 

When I watch informational videos I try to objectively watch and closely listen looking to learn something of value.  But, I am sorry to say, that wasn't the case with that video.  There was so much minutia I eventually turned it off.  And to think, I've written complex computer programs and quite technical, except I don't live by charts and graphs. 

 

Everything surrounding golf for me is about feel and attention to details.  When I consider all the variables and challenges we face while playing golf, trying to assess where LM data has merit, is difficult at best.  Possibly why I haven't bothered with being fitted in recent years.

 

The prevailing conclusion: Low bounce = higher flight, and High bounce = lower flight has no applicable value least to this 4 index, as I flight the ball using 8* wedges.  Maybe LM data is used too much, considering most people don't understand it, and it's not making better golfers as evident by USGA "data."  There's that word again... LOL

 

The minutia in that video maybe why I haven't given Lunch Monitors much time either. LOL.  I rather see what the ball is doing and assess like or dislike with my eyes, vs believe what a LM says.  Then there's this: me laughing at the expensive TV LM tech used at PRO tournaments, so viewers can see the projected trajectory which seldom matches what I see standing on the ground when the ball lands and finishes.  Oh, well, I still love this game, just not inside Launch monitor data and all its figurative guessing. LOL.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[BubbaBallesteros]

17 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Thanks, @BubbaBallesteros - interesting video.  I've seen other TXG videos and generally appreciate their efforts. 

 

When I watch informational videos I try to objectively watch and closely listen looking to learn something of value.  But, I am sorry to say, that wasn't the case with that video.  There was so much minutia I eventually turned it off.  And to think, I've written complex computer programs and quite technical, except I don't live by charts and graphs. 

 

Everything surrounding golf for me is about feel and attention to details.  When I consider all the variables and challenges we face while playing golf, trying to assess where LM data has merit, is difficult at best.  Possibly why I haven't bothered with being fitted in recent years.

 

The prevailing conclusion: Low bounce = higher flight, and High bounce = lower flight has no applicable value least to this 4 index, as I flight the ball using 8* wedges.  Maybe LM data is used too much, considering most people don't understand it, and it's not making better golfers as evident by USGA "data."  There's that word again... LOL

 

The minutia in that video maybe why I haven't given Lunch Monitors much time either. LOL.  I rather see what the ball is doing and assess like or dislike with my eyes, vs believe what a LM says.  Then there's this: me laughing at the expensive TV LM tech used at PRO tournaments, so viewers can see the projected trajectory which seldom matches what I see standing on the ground when the ball lands and finishes.  Oh, well, I still love this game, just not inside Launch monitor data and all its figurative guessing. LOL.

I'm pretty sure they were talking about stock shots. Obviously one can flight a wedge shot down or hit it a bit higher. I take it that the "minutia" you are talking about is gear effect?

 

The strike location data checked out from their testing. Lower strike location with higher bounce and higher strikes with lower bounce. Which makes complete sense in theory if you think about it.