Room for improvement with driver ? (numbers provided) Rogue vs EPIC Max LS

[robr10]

Hi all 

 

Club Specs:
Callaway Rogue Driver in 9* head, D2 Swing Weight 
Playing it Neutral and -1 Loft setting on the hosel. 
Shaft is a VA Composites Vylyn, Stiff flex, pured.

Launch Average numbers are: (numbers provided by Rapsodo MLM, unfortunately don't have spin but assume it might be fairly high 3,000 considering the Apex? ) 
102 Club Head Speed
148 Ball Speed
1.45 Smash
16.2* Launch Angle
242yd Carry
255yd Rollout 
121ft Apex

 

Few questions:

1. Whats a good range for apex on a driver ? 
2. launch seems high at 16 ? 
3. would moving to a lower spin lower launch head like the EPIC MAX LS provide a benefit, I have to opportunity to get a 9* Max LS head for a good price that I can swap on to? 

Edited March 1, 2021 by robr10

[Roejye]

The club ho/tinkerer in me says to get the head anyways, especially since you said it's a good price. If it doesn't work out you could probably sell it. Unfortunately, I don't really have another answer to give you, wish I could be more helpful.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Roejye

[BustedBogeyMachine]

 

 

You’re either hitting 8* up (unless you were a long drive guy I doubt that) or you’re adding dynamic loft by leaving the clubface open coming into it. 

 

The number oitside of that are pretty darn good. I would work on losing spin some but that can be negative too if you go too far. I’d say something in the 2200-2500 range would be optimum maybe even a little less with your dynamic loft. 

 

Heres my kid swinging driver. If anything he has too low of spin but man do they roll out.  

 

Yes his stance is closed. No it’s not usually. Indoor sim isn’t the same as outdoor golf even if he sees the same roll and distance. You can see he has about the loft/launch you should have with a 9* driver hitting 3.5* up on it. He gets into the low

100-teens with it and it’ll be a legit weapon for him. Low darts at 290 already. 

[BustedBogeyMachine]

If offended(I re-watched the video, the instructor there used the F word not me, lol) I can pull the video no problem. Or watch it without sound. It doesn’t give sound of him hitting anyways, just the playback screen. Which unfortunately captured the F word from the instructor.  You probably won’t even hear it unless you’re listening for it (which everyone will be now, lol. 

[Golfrnut]

If the ball speed is right, the expected distance is within reason of what you would expect.

 

The biggest issue is not knowing where exactly your face impacts are (estimated spin from what I can see, which means it's realistically a crap shoot since gear effect means so much)

 

Don't know the accuracy of the launch angle (which I assume it uses to estimate the spin number).  If one is off, both would be effected most likely...which means actual distance would be off.

 

Since it's not measuring distance, total number revolves around the calculations above.

 

In the end, ball speed will always mean the most.  Use a means to verify contact quality (foot spray, etc) and make sure that's good, and distance is probably close to being within reason to actual.  If the ball speed and club head speed are accurate, you are leaving a bit of distance on the table most likely due to contact quality...but that all depends on if those numbers are true or not.

[Drivingrangehero]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:57 AM, robr10 said:

Hi all 

 

Club Specs:
Callaway Rogue Driver in 9* head, D2 Swing Weight 
Playing it Neutral and -1 Loft setting on the hosel. 
Shaft is a VA Composites Vylyn, Stiff flex, pured.

Launch Average numbers are: (numbers provided by Rapsodo MLM, unfortunately don't have spin but assume it might be fairly high 3,000 considering apex? ) 
102 Club Head Speed
148 Ball Speed
1.45 Smash
16.2* Launch Angle
242yd Carry
265yd Rollout 
121ft Apex

 

Few questions:

1. Whats a good range for apex on a driver ? 
2. launch seems high at 16 ? 
3. would moving to a lower spin lower launch head like the EPIC MAX LS provide a benefit, I have to opportunity to get a 9* Max LS head for a good price that I can swap on to? 

https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

pretty efficient, you may be able to drop spin slightly, but not much. Possibly loft down 1* or 1/2* ...... or change to a lower spinning ball, and you would be in optimum number range! 
 

From the link above. 
Your spin should be 2,600rpm if all other info you provided is verified 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Drivingrangehero
Missing info

[robr10]

Very cool - @Driving Range Herothanks for sharing that flightscope information it’s very helpful to have a general idea on spin. 

 

@Golfrnut I have the shot tracer video from my MLM shot tracer. This was one of my better strikes hitting 259 , also have a few 262s but were pushes. What’s interesting is I barely get any roll on these shots so definitely going to look into lofting down or even dropping tee high as I add a crap load of dynamic loft it appears. 

[BustedBogeyMachine]

If that tracer is accurate I don’t see a 17* launch. That looks pretty close to optimum ball flight to me. 

 

Do you have any GC Quad or Trackman type sessions to compare it to? I have no idea how accurate that is but that doesn’t look like a 17* launch (trust me I see enough of them to know, 😂). 

[robr10]

13 hours ago, BustedBogeyMachine said:

If that tracer is accurate I don’t see a 17* launch. That looks pretty close to optimum ball flight to me. 

 

Do you have any GC Quad or Trackman type sessions to compare it to? I have no idea how accurate that is but that doesn’t look like a 17* launch (trust me I see enough of them to know, 😂). 

@BustedBogeyMachine I wish buddy... maybe if I can get some access to an indoor sim but with Covid its been difficult. 

Not sure why it doesn't show on the video but the MLM also shows APEX on that shot was 121ft ... awfully high I believe, and you can see how the ball just drops straight down instead of a penetrating flight. If I am into the wind that will be knocked down pretty good.  I just think If anything I am losing yards on roll, carry seems about right for my swing speed.

[BustedBogeyMachine]

15 hours ago, robr10 said:

@BustedBogeyMachine I wish buddy... maybe if I can get some access to an indoor sim but with Covid its been difficult. 

Not sure why it doesn't show on the video but the MLM also shows APEX on that shot was 121ft ... awfully high I believe, and you can see how the ball just drops straight down instead of a penetrating flight. If I am into the wind that will be knocked down pretty good.  I just think If anything I am losing yards on roll, carry seems about right for my swing speed.

 

I see an efficient ball flight. If that tracked your accurate ball flight I just don’t see that as accurate. When I launch one 17* on Trackman it disappears from view for a couple seconds. 

 

That looks like a legit 12-13* launch. Sure if you want to chase a few total yards, and don’t we all brother, worry about that flight at all. Unless you’re 19* and getting to 205 and hitting a wall on the right side, you aren’t too bad. 

 

My kid swings at 105- with driver. He’s aired it out and hit 118 and 178 BS but prefers to keep it on the course for some reason? 

 

I’ll send you a 102.5 CHS swing net a 290 drive. I can futilely hack at well over that and not come close. 

[BustedBogeyMachine]

15 hours ago, robr10 said:

@BustedBogeyMachine I wish buddy... maybe if I can get some access to an indoor sim but with Covid its been difficult. 

Not sure why it doesn't show on the video but the MLM also shows APEX on that shot was 121ft ... awfully high I believe, and you can see how the ball just drops straight down instead of a penetrating flight. If I am into the wind that will be knocked down pretty good.  I just think If anything I am losing yards on roll, carry seems about right for my swing speed.

 

I see an efficient ball flight. If that tracked your accurate ball flight I just don’t see that as accurate. When I launch one 17* on Trackman it disappears from view for a couple seconds. 

 

That looks like a legit 12-13* launch. Sure if you want to chase a few total yards, and don’t we all brother, worry about that flight at all. Unless you’re 19* and getting to 205 and hitting a wall on the right side, you aren’t too bad. 

 

My kid swings at 105- with driver. He’s aired it out and hit 118 and 178 BS but prefers to keep it on the course for some reason? 

 

I’ll send you a 102.5 CHS swing net a 290 drive. I can futilely hack at well over that and not come close. 

 

Child. 92 with a 4i, 

should not net 240. 

 

I love the child but I have to out old guy him now. 

[BustedBogeyMachine]

That was an 11* ish LA. 

 

I dont see it going that high above that line. No way it’s 16*+

 

i can show you those, too 😂 

Edited February 24, 2021 by BustedBogeyMachine

[mgoblue83]

7 hours ago, BustedBogeyMachine said:

 

I see an efficient ball flight. If that tracked your accurate ball flight I just don’t see that as accurate. When I launch one 17* on Trackman it disappears from view for a couple seconds. 

 

That looks like a legit 12-13* launch. Sure if you want to chase a few total yards, and don’t we all brother, worry about that flight at all. Unless you’re 19* and getting to 205 and hitting a wall on the right side, you aren’t too bad. 

 

My kid swings at 105- with driver. He’s aired it out and hit 118 and 178 BS but prefers to keep it on the course for some reason? 

 

I’ll send you a 102.5 CHS swing net a 290 drive. I can futilely hack at well over that and not come close. 

 

Child. 92 with a 4i, 

21EC7C4A-8646-4452-8D9A-471AF0DB5870.MOV 10.18 MB · 1 download should not net 240. 

 

I love the child but I have to out old guy him now. 

 

Agreed that his ball flight is efficient and I doubt he's launching it at 17 degrees but why do you keep bringing up your kid in a thread where he asked about his driver numbers? (Just curious)

 

@robr10 That launch monitor you are using is a nice tool and is probably pretty accurate with the ball speed number but there is no way it's accurate enough with all of those parameters to optimize a driver. If the price is good and you can afford it you might as well buy the new head, compare them side by side and sell the one you don't use. The only other option is to do a demo session on a Trackman or GCQ to really know if it's an improvement for you. 

[robr10]

34 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Agreed that his ball flight is efficient and I doubt he's launching it at 17 degrees but why do you keep bringing up your kid in a thread where he asked about his driver numbers? (Just curious)

 

@robr10 That launch monitor you are using is a nice tool and is probably pretty accurate with the ball speed number but there is no way it's accurate enough with all of those parameters to optimize a driver. If the price is good and you can afford it you might as well buy the new head, compare them side by side and sell the one you don't use. The only other option is to do a demo session on a Trackman or GCQ to really know if it's an improvement for you. 

 

@MGOBLUE You'd be surprised at how accurate it is compared to the Trackman. 

 

[mgoblue83]

12 minutes ago, robr10 said:

 

@MGOBLUE You'd be surprised at how accurate it is compared to the Trackman. 

 

@robr10 I'll stand by what I said. It's a nice device and is certainly helpful but the parameters it measures are not accurate enough to optimize a fitting.

[robr10]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

@robr10 I'll stand by what I said. It's a nice device and is certainly helpful but the parameters it measures are not accurate enough to optimize a fitting.

For sure,  Rapsodo MLM is $500 dollar device vs. Trackman $15000 +/- .

 

GC Quad might be the best way to go for a fitting as I think it does strike location as well.  

 

Thanks for the feedback, I am doing the Global Golf Utry for $25 bucks for the Epic Max LS. Will come back and show numbers when it arrives. If all fairs well I'll be on the hunt for a head. 

[BustedBogeyMachine]

16 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Agreed that his ball flight is efficient and I doubt he's launching it at 17 degrees but why do you keep bringing up your kid in a thread where he asked about his driver numbers? (Just curious)

 

@robr10 That launch monitor you are using is a nice tool and is probably pretty accurate with the ball speed number but there is no way it's accurate enough with all of those parameters to optimize a driver. If the price is good and you can afford it you might as well buy the new head, compare them side by side and sell the one you don't use. The only other option is to do a demo session on a Trackman or GCQ to really know if it's an improvement for you. 

 

Easy enough answer. Ball flight is similar. I don’t see the LA numbers he has. 

 

Trying to point that out through a low launch angle player. 

 

But taken. I will try not to bring any pertinent points up. 

[A.Princey]

My avg driver numbers are:

 

 

12* driver

150mph ball

2500 total spin

16.5*(14-19) LA

 

And yes, I do hit up on the ball a considerable amount. These numbers aren't that ridiculous, but maybe with a 9* driver they would be.

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by A.Princey

[robr10]

Just got the EPIC MAX LS in a 9* head in for testing...  some interesting info gathered. Both heads are 9* but the MAX LS definitely launched lower to start. I set it up just the same as I had with my rogue, -1 / N on the optifit hosel.  After 5- 10 shots, I went up to N/S and still launching low with trouble getting shots to carry over 230 yards. Next, I went up to +1 / N ... and here is where I found a better comparison. 

To recap- I'm gaming currently a Rogue Driver (standard) ... 

Rogue Driver, Vylyn Shaft, -1 / N optifit setting (Average numbers):

• 102 Club Head Speed
• 148 Ball Speed
• 1.45 Smash
• ~16.2* Launch Angle (12.6 - 19.2)
• 242yd Carry
• 255yd Rollout 
• ~121ft Apex (114ft to 130ft)

 

NEW EPIC MAX LS, Vylyn Shaft , +1 / N optifit setting (Average numbers):

• 104 Club head speed
• 152 Ball Speed
• 1.5 smash
• ~ 14* Launch Angle (12.3 - 14.8)
• 248 Carry 
• 264 Rollout
• ~105ft Apex (90ft to 116)

 

Looks like the lower launch of the MAX LS is eeking out some additional yards on carry and also helping with the rollout. Dispersion was good as well, more straight in flight to target, a few left of center with a draw but a lot sitting right on the target line. I haven't touched the rear sliding weight at all yet, if I keep the driver I will likely see how my patters fall over time and maybe make some slight adjustments. Here is some of the additional info I have along with with my best drive video captured, distance is carry in this video not TOTAL.

NOTE: I classified the EPIC MAX LS as a 3W in the APP as they don't have a way to create a new label and I didn't want the data mixed up with my current gamer so I could see the difference.  I do not play a 3wood so these numbers are just for the Epic Max LS.  I also verified the app does not make any adjustments when changing clubs types from 3W to Driver.  

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by robr10

[robr10]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:07 PM, A.Princey said:

My avg driver numbers are:

 

 

12* driver

150mph ball

2500 total spin

16.5*(14-19) LA

 

And yes, I do hit up on the ball a considerable amount. These numbers aren't that ridiculous, but maybe with a 9* driver they would be.

 

 

 

@A.PrinceyCurious what your yardages are like with those numbers.

Edited March 2, 2021 by robr10

[A.Princey]

245-250 carry

Edited March 2, 2021 by A.Princey

[A.Princey]

I would imagine you spin the Rogue around 3000, and the Epic LS around 400-500 less. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by A.Princey

[BustedBogeyMachine]

The math of a 104CHS swing and a 152 ball speed (not bad numbers) equaling a 1.5 smash? 

 

Makes my head hurt. 

[robr10]

7 hours ago, BustedBogeyMachine said:

The math of a 104CHS swing and a 152 ball speed (not bad numbers) equaling a 1.5 smash? 

 

Makes my head hurt. 

 

Haha yes interesting, maybe some way its doing averaging for the month of shots ? 

 

Doing another session tomorrow to validate the head to head results.

Edited March 4, 2021 by robr10

[tyorke1]

I am deciding between the two heads forward the la 10.5 and 9 rogue 130s , The nine works great but I’ll test the 10.5 today .