Bend Woods upright?

[BallerNate]

Quick question for the Tech guys here on WRX.

 

I’m 6’7 and have my irons and wedges bent upright by 2*. My irons are extended by 1” and wedges by 1.4”.
 

I have a fitting booked at the end April, which is the earliest I could get...but appreciate help in the meantime.

 

Should I bend my Hybrid, Driving Iron, 3-Wood, and Driver upright by 2* also?

 

In the past I had success playing my Driver, 3-Wood, and Hybrid stock and not extending them or bending them upright (previously had Cally Rogue w/ Aldila Synergy shafts in all 3).

But now I have the SIM Max D Driver & 3-Wood (UST Mamiya Helium shafts), and Srixon Z H85 (PX Hzrdus Black 6.0), and Z U85 (UST Mamiya Recoil 95) and from a few simulator rounds, I am struggling badly with control with the Driver and 3-Wood especially.

 

The Driver and 3-Wood have historically been pretty good for me, although my misses are usually right. I bought the Max D’s to hopefully limit the right misses, but so far I miss right and hook left now.

 

Thank you for any help or advice.

[kjbuckeye]

10 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Quick question for the Tech guys here on WRX.

 

I’m 6’7 and have my irons and wedges bent upright by 2*. My irons are extended by 1” and wedges by 1.4”.
 

I have a fitting booked at the end April, which is the earliest I could get...but appreciate help in the meantime.

 

Should I bend my Hybrid, Driving Iron, 3-Wood, and Driver upright by 2* also?

 

In the past I had success playing my Driver, 3-Wood, and Hybrid stock and not extending them or bending them upright (previously had Cally Rogue w/ Aldila Synergy shafts in all 3).

But now I have the SIM Max D Driver & 3-Wood (UST Mamiya Helium shafts), and Srixon Z H85 (PX Hzrdus Black 6.0), and Z U85 (UST Mamiya Recoil 95) and from a few simulator rounds, I am struggling badly with control with the Driver and 3-Wood especially.

 

The Driver and 3-Wood have historically been pretty good for me, although my misses are usually right. I bought the Max D’s to hopefully limit the right misses, but so far I miss right and hook left now.

 

Thank you for any help or advice.

Won’t be able to bend the driver, 3 wood or hybrid. The 3 wood may be able to bent if someone has the special blocks to lock the head securely. The driving iron can be bent if needed. Wouldn’t say it needs to be bent 2* up like your irons. Get fit to see. 
 

all of these clubs should be looked at individually to see what adjustments need to be made. Most metal woods can’t be bent but if it has an adaptor, the lie may be able to be adjusted, if needed. 

[BallerNate]

14 minutes ago, kjbuckeye said:

Won’t be able to bend the driver, 3 wood or hybrid. The 3 wood may be able to bent if someone has the special blocks to lock the head securely. The driving iron can be bent if needed. Wouldn’t say it needs to be bent 2* up like your irons. Get fit to see. 
 

all of these clubs should be looked at individually to see what adjustments need to be made. Most metal woods can’t be bent but if it has an adaptor, the lie may be able to be adjusted, if needed. 

Aha...I had no idea the Driver and Hybrid couldn’t be bent.

 

Do you think the new issues I’m having with controlling the Driver and 3-Wood related to the shafts, or the more closed face on the Max D?

 

Last season I was probably 8/10 to 9/10 with solid contact on my Driver and 3-Wood, but right now I’m probably closer to 2/10. Could be rust or just needing to get used to new clubs, but feel like it’s probably more than that.

[kjbuckeye]

Shafts could be causing a timing issue but it seems like you are struggling with a two-way miss. Swing fault needs to be addressed. 

[BallerNate]

25 minutes ago, kjbuckeye said:

Shafts could be causing a timing issue but it seems like you are struggling with a two-way miss. Swing fault needs to be addressed. 

Makes sense, thanks.

 

I will say that most of the misses are still right, and there are a few other factors too: new clubs, not much practice with Woods over the Winter, only 4th time on simulator etc.

 

Probably for the best that my fitting isn’t until the end of April so I can work out some of those other kinks between now and then.

 

Thanks again for your help!

[MPAndreassi]

You can try the upright setting on the driver. The adjustable stuff isn't able to be bent, but the TaylorMade adapters with change it. I actually believe that the Standard setting on the TaylorMade is as flat as it can get, and every other adjustment makes it more upright. Lie angle is a bit more of an issue when you're interacting with the turf, however the dynamic lie can have an impact on strike point with a driver. That's usually a shaft issue though. As far as the utility iron goes, wait for the fitting and have them do quick check on that the same way they would for the rest of your irons. 

[BallerNate]

15 minutes ago, MPAndreassi said:

You can try the upright setting on the driver. The adjustable stuff isn't able to be bent, but the TaylorMade adapters with change it. I actually believe that the Standard setting on the TaylorMade is as flat as it can get, and every other adjustment makes it more upright. Lie angle is a bit more of an issue when you're interacting with the turf, however the dynamic lie can have an impact on strike point with a driver. That's usually a shaft issue though. As far as the utility iron goes, wait for the fitting and have them do quick check on that the same way they would for the rest of your irons. 

Good to know, thanks! First time owning a TM Driver, so didn’t know there were that many options with adjustability. Will do more research on that for sure.

[Valtiel]

It is very unlikely that lie angle is the culprit here as it starts to have less and less of an effect on direction as the clubs get longer and becomes more about visual preference and potentially strike manipulation. 

It is far more likely that there is a fitting issue with the new clubs compared to the old. If possible I would have everything measured on the old Callaways, particularly swing weight, length, and total weight, and also observe how they sit on the ground in terms of face angle. One of the more common causes of control issues with new clubs is that they are lighter, and at 6'7" with decently overlength irons that will be on the heavier side by default, a lighter wood can be that much more problematic.

If you can not measure the old Callaways then the first thing I would do is experiment with adding weight to the clubheads. Nothing fancy, just start slapping lead tape on them one strip at a time at the driving range and pay attention to whether your control of the club starts trending in the right direction. It may take a few sessions, but at the end you can hopefully have the clubs feeling better, and the lead tape can be taken off after and weighed to be replaced with a heavier weight in the head, or hotmelt if you want sound and feel augmentation as well. You could also potentially do this at the fitting depending on how much time you have and how qualified/in depth they are. 

Regarding the actual lie angles themselves, as @MPAndreassi said, all settings outside of the "Standard" sleeve sitting will raise the lie angle on TM clubs, so you can mess around with that to see if the visuals of a different lie angle are bugging you or not. Actual wood hosel bending can only be performed on fixed hosel clubs, and only ones with a hosel long enough to bend, and only by a very qualified professional with specialty equipment. Even then there is still the chance of failure. The driving iron however can easily be bent and I agree with that being addressed at a fitting. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Valtiel

[BallerNate]

11 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

It is very unlikely that lie angle is the culprit here as it starts to have less and less of an effect on direction as the clubs get longer and becomes more about visual preference and potentially strike manipulation. 

It is far more likely that there is a fitting issue with the new clubs compared to the old. If possible I would have everything measured on the old Callaways, particularly swing weight, length, and total weight, and also observe how they sit on the ground in terms of face angle. One of the more common causes of control issues with new clubs is that they are lighter, and at 6'7" with decently overlength irons that will be on the heavier side by default, a lighter wood can be that much more problematic.

If you can not measure the old Callaways then the first thing I would do is experiment with adding weight to the clubheads. Nothing fancy, just start slapping lead tape on them one strip at a time at the driving range and pay attention to whether your control of the club starts trending in the right direction. It make take a few sessions, but at the end you can hopefully had the clubs feeling better, and the lead tape can be taken off after and weighed to be replaced with a heavier weight in the head, or hotmelt if you want sound and feel augmentation as well. You could also potentially do this at the fitting depending on how much time you have and how qualified/in depth they are. 

Regarding the actual lie angles themselves, as @MPAndreassi said, all settings outside of the "Standard" sleeve sitting will raise the lie angle, so you can mess around with that to see if the visuals of a different lie angle are bugging you or not. Actual wood hosel bending can only be performed on fixed hosel clubs, and only ones with a hosel long enough to bend, and only by a very qualified professional with specialty equipment. Even then there is still the chance of failure. The driving iron however can easily be bent and I agree with that being addressed at a fitting. 

Great info, thanks very much!

 

Yeah, my whole bag is all brand new and I went with heavier shafts in my Irons (120g), Driving Iron (95g), and Hybrid (85g), so the lighter weight of the Driver and 3-Wood could definitely be an issue.

 

Unfortunately I sold my Rogue Driver and 3-Wood, so I can’t measure them, but trying heavier weight in the Driver and 3-Wood heads and/or shafts definitely makes a lot of sense.

 

For my fitting, it’s going to be my first one and my only concern is that they won’t be looking to make any adjustments to my current clubs (all purchased in the last 2-3 months), but will just sell me new stuff. I’ll do more research on the fitter and the options though for sure.

[Valtiel]

2 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Great info, thanks very much!

 

Yeah, my whole bag is all brand new and I went with heavier shafts in my Irons (120g), Driving Iron (95g), and Hybrid (85g), so the lighter weight of the Driver and 3-Wood could definitely be an issue.

 

Unfortunately I sold my Rogue Driver and 3-Wood, so I can’t measure them, but trying heavier weight in the Driver and 3-Wood heads and/or shafts definitely makes a lot of sense.

 

For my fitting, it’s going to be my first one and my only concern is that they won’t be looking to make any adjustments to my current clubs (all purchased in the last 2-3 months), but will just sell me new stuff. I’ll do more research on the fitter and the options though for sure.

You're welcome! My money is on a weight and/or length issue for sure. Stock driver head weights can vary by up to 10g depending on manufacturer and product line, not to mention variances in stock length and shaft weight, so I would be surprised if something significant didn't change there somewhere. 

Definitely look up the fitting as well, because you'll want a certain type based on what you need. A "sales" fitting will just leave you frustrated for all the obvious reasons and if often what you will get at big box and even more specialty places. The PGA Superstore has a thing they call a "gapping session" which costs like $50 for 90min and you are completely free to work with and fit your existing clubs, something like that is what you'll likely want. The one near me has a QCQuad and premium balls so you can really get some good work done there, however they are a bit like a self serve car wash in the sense that you do get some awesome tools to use and work with, but you still have do some things yourself. They aren't going to bust out a roll of lead tape for you or have much in terms of weights you can pop in and out (especially the Taylormade ones that require a Torx bit, I always break the tab off of those so I can use a regular hex bit), so you'll have to BYOB to a certain extent and sort of "produce" your own fitting. The fitters can range from relatively competent to just sales guys that know how to use the computer, so you have to be prepared for that. If you can do that though with the help of a decent fitter who can assist with lie and loft adjustments then you can get a lot out of those, and they have shafts you can usually demo as well. You'll also get a packet afterwards with everything documented should want to do the changes yourself or elsewhere. 

If you really want to get into it then I recommend picking up a selection of aftermarket weights for your clubs (eBay, GolfWorks, Billybobs etc) and some high density lead tape and either experiment with them yourself, or use them as tools in a fitting like I described above. Feel free to drop any other questions about that stuff in here, there are tons of people here that can help you down the self fitting path. 👍

[BallerNate]

23 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

You're welcome! My money is on a weight and/or length issue for sure. Stock driver head weights can vary by up to 10g depending on manufacturer and product line, not to mention variances in stock length and shaft weight, so I would be surprised if something significant didn't change there somewhere. 

Definitely look up the fitting as well, because you'll want a certain type based on what you need. A "sales" fitting will just leave you frustrated for all the obvious reasons and if often what you will get at big box and even more specialty places. The PGA Superstore has a thing they call a "gapping session" which costs like $50 for 90min and you are completely free to work with and fit your existing clubs, something like that is what you'll likely want. The one near me has a QCQuad and premium balls so you can really get some good work done there, however they are a bit like a self serve car wash in the sense that you do get some awesome tools to use and work with, but you still have do some things yourself. They aren't going to bust out a roll of lead tape for you or have much in terms of weights you can pop in and out (especially the Taylormade ones that require a Torx bit, I always break the tab off of those so I can use a regular hex bit), so you'll have to BYOB to a certain extent and sort of "produce" your own fitting. The fitters can range from relatively competent to just sales guys that know how to use the computer, so you have to be prepared for that. If you can do that though with the help of a decent fitter who can assist with lie and loft adjustments then you can get a lot out of those, and they have shafts you can usually demo as well. You'll also get a packet afterwards with everything documented should want to do the changes yourself or elsewhere. 

If you really want to get into it then I recommend picking up a selection of aftermarket weights for your clubs (eBay, GolfWorks, Billybobs etc) and some high density lead tape and either experiment with them yourself, or use them as tools in a fitting like I described above. Feel free to drop any other questions about that stuff in here, there are tons of people here that can help you down the self fitting path. 👍

Wow, awesome stuff!!

 

Yeah, I’m in Canada, so our options are always more limited than in the States.

 

My fitting is with a company called Modern Golf in Toronto, but when I asked if they have any prior generation clubs or shafts they said they only have 2021 stuff, and it’s one of those where the fitting fee is waived if you spend over $500.

 

Going to do more research if I can get the type of fitting you’re talking about where I can get my current clubs adjusted/maximized, because I don’t have the budget for a new $700 Driver, $1,600 Irons, and $500 3-Wood or $500 shafts, which is what the prices are like for new stuff in Canada.

 

I also like the lead tape/weights idea and doing as much of the work/adjustments as I can on my own for sure!

Edited March 9, 2021 by BallerNate
Typo

[BallerNate]

16 hours ago, Valtiel said:

My money is on a weight and/or length issue for sure. Stock driver head weights can vary by up to 10g depending on manufacturer and product line, not to mention variances in stock length and shaft weight, so I would be surprised if something significant didn't change there somewhere. 
 

Just circling back to let you know I looked up the specs of my previous Driver and 3-Wood, and you were definitely that there’s a significant difference in weight, length, and lie angle between them. I couldn’t find the head weight, but these were the specs I found:

 

Driver Specs:

 

Rogue 9*:

length 45.50”

Lie 58* (adjustable)

Swing weight D3

460cc

Aldila Synergy 50S, weight 60g

(Torque Mid, Kickpoint Mid)

 

Max D 9*

Length 45.75”

Lie 56-60*

Swing weight D3

460cc

UST Helium 5, weight 54g

Torque 5.5, launch High, spin Mid-High

 

3-Wood Specs:

 

Rogue 15*

Length 43”

Lie 57*

171cc

Swing weight D2

Aldila Synergy 60 S, 68g

Torque Low-Mid, Kickpoint Mid-High

 

Max D 16*

Length 43.25”

Lie 59*

190cc

Swing weight D2

Helium FW5, 56g

Torque 5.5, launch High, spin Mid-High

[Awainer1]

I also play 2 upright and my 3 wood at 43 inches is 58.5 lie angle. I just find woods that match my specs and buy them. I use a 1-1 slope chart from my irons to arrive at my wood specs. The driver lie angle I don’t worry about too much although I’ve always wondered about a driver that’s 1.5 inches longer already playing upright from my woods. But your always hitting off a tee so I don’t think it matters as much. 

[BallerNate]

10 hours ago, Awainer1 said:

I also play 2 upright and my 3 wood at 43 inches is 58.5 lie angle. I just find woods that match my specs and buy them. I use a 1-1 slope chart from my irons to arrive at my wood specs. The driver lie angle I don’t worry about too much although I’ve always wondered about a driver that’s 1.5 inches longer already playing upright from my woods. But your always hitting off a tee so I don’t think it matters as much. 

Makes sense for sure. Yeah, I think the issue with my Driver and 3-Wood right now is weight and would prefer them to be a little shorter. The 3-Wood especially being shorter, heavier and more upright would be a better fit for me.

 

I have a fitting booked on April 23rd, so just going to wait until then to make any changes, whether that means adjusting what I have, replacing the shafts, or just replacing them.

[Awainer1]

3 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Makes sense for sure. Yeah, I think the issue with my Driver and 3-Wood right now is weight and would prefer them to be a little shorter. The 3-Wood especially being shorter, heavier and more upright would be a better fit for me.

 

I have a fitting booked on April 23rd, so just going to wait until then to make any changes, whether that means adjusting what I have, replacing the shafts, or just replacing them.

Ya if u go shorter go even more upright. My 5 wood is either 42 or 42.5 and I play those at 59 or 59.5. It makes a huge difference for me to have those lies correct. 

[BallerNate]

50 minutes ago, Awainer1 said:

Ya if u go shorter go even more upright. My 5 wood is either 42 or 42.5 and I play those at 59 or 59.5. It makes a huge difference for me to have those lies correct. 

Makes sense. Yeah, I’ve never gotten fitted, so all of my adjustments and purchases have been made based of feel and research.

 

Looking forward to finally getting fitted in April and get a professional perspective. All my clubs were bought in the last 2-3 months, but like any true WRX’r I’ll flip all of them if I have to, Lol!