Driver Fitting Advice / Musings

Chug Mulligan · May 19, 2021

Quick preamble...I'm a 43 year old 8 handicap, play 5 or 6 times a month, shoot in the low-to-mid 80's, try to break 80 every time I tee it up, which I probably do once or twice every 10 rounds.

I don't buy equipment regularly...I probably freshen up my bag every 10 years or so. I've only been fit for equipment twice...a driver fitting at the Callaway Performance Center in Vegas maybe 15 years ago for an old driver I no longer use, and an iron fitting at Ping in Scottsdale about nine years ago (and I still game the G20's I got from that fitting).

I've decided to get legitimately fit for a new driver this year to replace my ten year old Callaway Razr FIT that I bought after basically doing my own personal fitting (by which I mean I hit a few different heads and shafts without a fitter on a simulator at a Golfsmith in midtown Manhattan and picked what performed best.)

I've been doing a lot of research to figure out the best fitting experience for the average golfer that is both in-depth and affordable. Finding the best option has been a struggle. I'll also say (and no offense to anyone reading this), but my experiences in general with people who work in the golf services industry have not been great. Although there have been a couple of exceptions, most of the teaching pros and fitters I've dealt with have been, in my opinion, lazy, unmotivated, and gave off the impression that they would have rather been just about anywhere else than helping me with my golf game.

Hoping for a better experience, I first looked into potentially doing a driver fitting at Club Champion. To evaluate their process, I watched several CC fitting vlogs that people posted to YouTube, and came away unimpressed. It seems the CC fitting experience is very cookie-cutter, and after watching a handful of videos, several patterns emerged (and it became clear the fitters were following a script of sorts):

Have player hit 3 or 4 balls w/ their current driver (which inevitably were too high spinning)
Pull very expensive aftermarket shaft (or 3) off wall, pair it with players current head, have player hit 3 or 4 more balls, observe how spin is reduced
Once player was sold that "this is the shaft for you," pair said expensive aftermarket shaft with variety of new heads to get ideal spin, speed, and launch numbers
Once optimal combo is determined, fitter tells player that is the perfect head/shaft combo for them, at which point they tell them that the driver is $500, the shaft is an additional $400, and when all is said and done, your new driver is $1200 including fitting, tax, etc.
(And conveniently, the $150 hour long fitting session is now over, so there is no opportunity to try any of the stock shafts that don't have any upcharge)

I'll be honest...I am not looking to spend $1200 on a driver. Nor am I looking to have a fitting experience where the fitter is making a commission on the fitting and is incentivized to put me in the most expensive aftermarket shaft they can talk me into. Especially since I know brands like Ping and Titleist offer a great range of legit, aftermarket shafts as stock options.

So, because of the commission structure, cookie cutter experience, and tendency to put players into extremely expensive aftermarket shafts from the get-go, I decided to pass on Club Champion.

Next, I reached out to a very highly rated private fitter in Northern NJ. The fitter (who I will not name because I'm not trying to be overly critical of them) offers an indoor hitting bay with a garage door and a Trackman that allows you to hit out on to a range while still getting Trackman data. I was very interested, although had a couple concerns:

1. While I know people generally recommend doing an outdoor fitting in order to have the benefit of seeing the actual ball flight, this fitting is done with range balls. I can't help but question the value of seeing the ball flight while using balls that may spin way more/less and launch much higher/lower than the premium ball that I would usually play. What is the value of seeing the ball flight if the ball flight isn't remotely what it will be like on the course?

2. I learned through research that Trackman does have algorithms that convert range ball data to premium ball data to mitigate the range ball affect during fittings (and the conversion is supposedly pretty accurate), but at the end of the day, what is the point of hitting range balls outside only to have a computer convert the data? Aren't I better off hitting premium balls indoors on a GC Quad where I'm theoretically getting legit data instead of some algorithm approximation?

All that being said, I was very excited to go to this fitter. He has worked with tour pros and has a lot of great reviews online. That was until I had a less than stellar customer service experience...

I sent three emails to schedule a fitting and received no response.
After the third email, I called and finally spoke to someone who said that someone else would get back to me to schedule my fitting appointment.
I was contacted by a really nice PGA club professional who set up a fitting for me the following week.
The day of the fitting, the pro reached out to me to say that they were having trouble with their Trackman, and they might have to reschedule. He then called me about an hour before my fitting to say the Trackman still wasn't working and we definitely had to reschedule. I rescheduled for later that week.
About 5 hours before my 2nd fitting appointment, I emailed the pro to make sure we were confirmed for later that day. He responded that we'd have to cancel again because they had to get a new Trackman because they couldn't fix the old one, and the new one hadn't been installed yet. (A fact that I'm sure he knew well in advance, and I was left wondering when he was planning on calling me to cancel the 2nd appointment).
By that point, I was a bit annoyed, considering that I had to be the one to chase them down to find out if our appointment was happening or not. Again, back to my complaint about the golf industry. This type of thing would never fly with a physician or an auto mechanic. But it has happened to me repeatedly with golf industry professionals. But I digress...

The pro asked me to suggest some additional dates that would work for me. I said ok. I haven't contacted him since, and he's never followed up. He was a very nice guy. Polite. Apologetic. But by that point I was annoyed and decided I didn't want to give him my money.

By this point, I had done so much research into the fitting process that I almost think I could fit myself. I swing the driver around 105 mph. I know I need a head and shaft combo that launches the ball in the 13 to 15 degree range, spins it in the 2000-2300 rpm range, and gives me a ball speed in the low 150's. Part of me wishes I could just go to an indoor bay with a GC Quad, hit a bunch of drivers and different shafts for 2 hours, and pick what performs best with the best launch numbers and tightest dispersion.

Ultimately I decided to book a Tour Van Fitting with a certified master fitter at a PGA Tour Superstore in Paramus, NJ. First, their fitting prices are cheaper than anywhere else. Second, they use GC Quad, which, by all indications, is superior to Trackman indoors (although I've read that Trackman is more accurate when used outside...something to do with radar limitations at short distances indoors that makes GC quad better). Ultimately, I feel like I know enough about the equipment and process at this point to know what I'm looking for, and I think if I have a fitter who is halfway competent, I'll be able to find an almost perfect head and stock shaft offering that performs incredibly well.

Could I perhaps get slightly better performance with an aftermarket shaft...probably. And I'm not opposed to trying some (if they even have any at PGATSS) to see how much better they perform than the stock options, and I'd be open to spending the extra money if the performance boost is significant. But, if it ends up being like I've seen in a lot of YouTube videos, the $400 aftermarket shaft often buys you two extra yards of carry and a marginally better dispersion. Totally worth it for a tour player. Not really worth it for me, especially given the fact that, as I mentioned, the likes of Ping and Titleist offer legit (not-made-for) Tensei and Aldila shafts as stock options.

I'm particularly interested in hitting the Ping G425 as I've heard it is the most forgiving driver ever made. My feeling is, if I like the head, and I can't find a good combo between the stock Alta CB, Ping Tour, Tensei Raw Orange, and the Aldila Rogue White options, then I've got a problem.

I'm equally interested in trying the TSi2/TSi3 and the many aftermarket shaft options Titleist offers as stock or with a slight upcharge.

At the end of the day, I want to spend around $500-$600 on a new driver that optimizes my launch conditions, period. I don't want to spend $1200 on a driver that optimizes my launch conditions slightly better than the $500 driver.

I was put off by Club Champion because they seem like a car dealership who does everything they can to get you to pay for the undercoating you don't really need. I was put off by the mom and pop shop because they simply weren't great at customer service, and I was skeptical about the so-called benefits their fitting offered, although I like to think they would have spent more time with me in a low pressure environment.

So I'm rolling the dice with the big box retailer given that a) I feel like I'm much more knowledgeable about the whole process then when I started and know what I want and what to look for, and b) the fitter I'm scheduled with has numerous certifications and I hope is somewhat competent. I think between those two things, I'm confident that I'll come away with a great driver setup. And worst case scenario, I'll hit a ton of shots with a bunch of head/shaft combos and find another fitter if I don't like the experience or results.

Anyway, this ended up being much longer than I intended, but I hope it may be helpful for other anal retentives who may have questions about the fitting process. I'd love to hear others thoughts on their experiences and recommendations, and I'll bump the thread once I have my PGA Tour SS fitting next week.

Chug

MelloYello · May 19, 2021

Where to begin?

#1

I would highly recommend you prioritize getting your baseline information over everything else. Try and book a personal session somewhere that has Trackman or something similar and hit enough shots with your driver such that you can see what your good and bad actually looks like. Look at all the launch parameters and observe how they vary according to the quality of the swing & strike. Once you have your own baseline information you can then do an incredibly good job just shopping for yourself using OEM literature (website info), user reviews and forums like these to clarify your concerns. You're not the first person to hit these shafts. There are tons of people out there who can report on how something feels or performs relative to some alternative.

#2

Fittings are as much a product as anything else these days. They're just another way for companies to add a service (and a fee) or for an entrepreneur to start a business. No disrespect to fitters, but I would wager they make the majority of their money on folks who are just looking to get the experience and spend the cash all while trusting them (the fitter) to make all the decisions.

If you're really serious about things you should take ownership of the process and be willing to scour the market yourself, possibly buying a few shafts to actually try before recouping what you can selling those you don't want. Most of us who have expensive shafts didn't just hand someone cash to tell us what we should play. Most of us that spent the money on premium shafts did so because we cared a lot about what we played. We put a lot of effort into it because ultimately we kind of enjoyed it--the idea of finding something that would help us play our best and hit shots to the best of our abilities. We were always guided by a goal. We wanted a lower flight or a shaft that felt smoother or something we worked right-to-left. Thus, we were able to make our own decisions.

#3

You should be able to do this for virtually nothing. I have an expensive $300 aftermarket shaft in my driver. That said, I have no reason to ever replace it. I like it. It worked in my M3 and is now working just as well in my SIM. It will continue to work should I move on to another driver at some point. I could very well use this shaft for the next 10 years as long as it holds up, LOL.

Tiger has been using the same Diamana shafts forever. Dustin constantly reverts back to his Fujikura Speeder regardless of what he tries in his driver. People find what they like and stick with it. Thus, the initial investment ends up being next to nothing spread across many years of service.

#4

Consider using Ebay as a way to obtain (and sell) shafts. Try things out. See what you like and don't. Over some period you'll find stuff that works. Words like "optimal" are what's misleading. Optimizing requires first determining a single metric. Optimal according to what criteria? A person could optimize around a ton of things in a golf shaft: feel, consistency, dispersion, carry, total distance, etc.

In the end, the fitter will have 10 shafts on the wall that all suit you just fine. Each OEM probably has at least 1 if not 3-4 and there are a dozen or so OEMs. Talk about paralysis by analysis! The idea that you're going to go in and find a single shaft that is perfectly fit to you is silly. And no matter how much you pay, there's no fitter who can change that.

So relax.

I would encourage you to get fit if that's what you want to do, but understand that you're correct, a lot of fitters are charging for the Trackman and for the shaft availability. You may not find those fitters any more knowledgeable than you are personally. They may not have any secrets that help you.

It's not a lie to say that you'll find more credible people here than you will in most "fitting studios." Those are just regular people doing a job pressing buttons on a computer. It's unlikely you'll run into someone who makes it their hobby obsessing about the minute details like the guys here do. The collective intelligence here won't be wrong of misleading. It might be diluted among the aggregate of 20 posts about a particular shaft, but it's here. Guys pressing buttons are a dime a dozen. A good fitter is hard to find. They're undoubtedly out there but you'd do better realizing it's really up to you.

Edited May 19, 2021 by MelloYello

MattC555 · May 19, 2021

I went to a Mizuno fitting for new irons recently and wasn't blown away either. The guy was talking about how he had to leave to go to his "other" job as soon as we were finished, and had basic information mixed up with older models.

I ended up going to another local golf shop and the owner worked with me further to make a final decision. Ended up placing an order for Mizuno's through him.

Conversely I recently was recently fitted for a new 3W using Chris Cote's tour fitting here in CT. Cost was a reasonable $75 in the garage format you alluded to. Trackman with range balls and 100s of shafts to try. Hilariously we found the best option was a made for Ventus blue in a Sim 2 Max. Solid fitter and was genuinely interested in finding the best fit for me.

My wife's sister lives in Toronto. I think I'll try TXG for my next fitting. Those guys seem pretty passionate.

So, in summary, I think you're going about things the right way.

Edited May 19, 2021 by MattC555

mgoblue83 · May 19, 2021

Your priority needs to be finding the best driver for your game not all the little stuff you are worried about.

#1 Choose one of the options where you can see the actual ball flight outside. Range balls may not fly exactly like a Prov1 but the differences in drivers will be obvious and will have a much higher chance of translating to the course. For as much hype as GC Quad seems to get it has some REALLY messed up algorithms for high speed/low spin driver shots. It drastically over estimates carry distance and makes it look like you are hitting a tight draw when in reality you are hitting a knuckleball without enough spin to stay in the air that is hooking off the planet. I'd choose the outdoor setting with Trackman and range balls vs. any indoor monitor and premium balls. You have to see the ball flight.

#2 Don't get sold on "low spin" and estimated total distance. Low spin is great if you have 175+ mph ball speed but most people are better off with 2500 spin vs. 2000 or less to keep the ball in the air longer and increase the forgiveness. Spin is your friend when it comes to forgiveness.

#3 Looks, sound and feel matter. Don't buy something you don't like just because the monitor says it has 1 mph faster ball speed.

Chug Mulligan · May 19, 2021

Mello, Matt, and Go Blue, thanks for all of the thoughtful feedback...really appreciate your time and insights.

Mello, I'm probably going to stick with the PGATSS fitting largely because it is a cheap way for me to hit and try a lot of things and get some quantitative feedback that I otherwise couldn't do. (Does anyone know what their policy is if you take something to the course and aren't thrilled with it?)

To your point about shafts, I actually have an Aldila NV Green and a Diamana Kai'li that I alternate between in my current driver, neither of which I was fit for but both of which I like. I'll definitely bring those along to the fitting for comparison sake and ideally to try them in some new heads if possible to compare them to the latest OEM offerings.

Go Blue, fair point about seeing the ball flight, even with range balls. I'll give some thought to possibly going back to the independent shop that will let me hit outside.

And thanks for your point about spin. I definitely had that experience when I tried out my buddies SIM last year that had a really low launch, low spin shaft. Came out like a lame duck and just dove into the ground. I definitely don't want a repeat of that.

But overall, I agree 100% about finding something that improves my game. More than anything, I'm looking for something that helps me hit it straighter with the tightest dispersion. I'm not the longest guy, but I hit it far enough. If I can gain a few yards, great, but I'm mostly looking for something more forgiving that helps me hit it straighter and find more fairways, as I think lack of accuracy and consistency off the tee is definitely my biggest problem at this point. I'm certainly not chasing the fastest ball speed in this process.

Matt, I'm originally from CT and my family still lives there. I was actually looking into possibly going to Chris Cote, but it just wasn't the most convenient for me. I must admit, I'd love to go to TXG. Love their videos and their advice on all things equipment.

And glad to hear that the made for option was the best for you. I feel like too many people dismiss made for stuff as junk, but I'm just as curious to hit them and see how they perform alongside the aftermarket options.

Thanks all. Will report back after my session next week.

Chug Mulligan · June 27, 2021

Just wanted to send an update after my PGA Tour SS Tour Van driver fitting session in Paramus, NJ.

Overall I had a positive experience. I thought the fitter was knowledgeable, patient, and wasn't at all pushy about angling for a sale of either a club or aftermarket shaft. Over 90 minutes, I hit pretty much every new head on the market with a variety of stock shaft options.

First, I was shocked at how high spinning my previous Razr FIT driver was. Most of my drives were in the 3000-4000 rpm range, with my usual ballooning, push-fade miss.

The clear winner for me from the get go was the TSi2. For me personally, it was without a doubt the straightest and most forgiving head with the tightest dispersion. The only issue we were having was that it was a bit too high spinning (my swing speed was in the 105mph to 110mph range, typically averaging around 107mph). We kept experimenting with the TSi3 to help bring the spin down, but it simply wasn't forgiving enough for me, and the poor strikes were inaccurate and lost too much yardage.

While I've typically played a 10^oor 10.5^odriver in the past, we went down to 9^oin the TSi2 to knock off some spin, which definitely helped. We tried every Titleist featured shaft and even some of the premium Graphite Design Tour AD options but couldn't seem to get the spin and dispersion just right.

With about 15 min left in the session, the fitter had me try a VA Composites Slay shaft, a high launch, low spin aftermarket option, in an attempt to bring the spin down while keeping the launch where it was. The results were incredible. Straight, penetrating ball flight, super smooth to swing, and the carry and dispersion were the best of any shaft I had tested.

I remember remarking out loud to the fitter "Well, that was the best one of the day," on my very first swing with it after hitting balls for almost an hour and a half. And the next dozen balls I hit were just as good. I hadn't been hitting the ball that great towards the end of the session, and I thought I was simply running out of gas. But the shots I hit with the Slay at the end of the session were far and away the best of the entire day. I was tremendously impressed with the VA Composite shaft, which wasn't a brand I was familiar with prior to the fitting, and it was only a $200 upcharge.

Given that I went in only looking to buy an exotic shaft if there was a clear performance boost, I felt the cost was well worth the results I was seeing. Also, the fee for the fitting was waived with purchase. When you factor in that I was able to sell the Tensei Raw Blue shaft that came stock in the TSi2 on ebay after the fact, the lack of a fitting fee and the shaft re-sale basically paid for the shaft upgrade.

Anyway, I definitely would recommend the PGA Tour SS fitting experience. They weren't pushy, and I don't think I could have had a much better fitting experience elsewhere.

Also, I am glad that I did the fitting indoors on the GC Quad, and have no regrets about not doing it outdoors. While I know some folks expressed skepticism about the accuracy of the GC Quad, I've found that the driver performs on course almost identically to the flight characteristics calculated by the GC Quad. Yes, the carry distances may have been slightly longer on the monitor, but the overall ball flight and distances have been spot on

Where I did find the experience to be a bit lacking was with the build, which I suppose is to be expected from a big box store. I had to wait about a week for the VA shaft to come in. When I went back for the installation, the guys in the club repair area initially couldn't find it (the entire area was a completely disorganized mess of clubs, shafts, grips, etc.). When they did finally put the club together, they didn't install the grip properly, which i didn't even realize until I played with the driver a few days later (the butt end of the grip was twisty and squishy, and I suspect they didn't pull it on all the way) and I had to have the pro at my course remove and reinstall it a week later. Not a huge deal, but not exactly the "master club builders" they claim to be at PGATSS.

But, all in all, if you are looking for an inexpensive fitting experience without the pushy sales tactics that I've heard you can encounter at the commission driven outfits like Club Champion, I think you can do worse than a knowledgeable fitter at a PGA Tour SS Tour Van fitting.

DYOS4 · June 28, 2021

Sounds like you had a good experience and got what you wanted, which is usually not how posts in this forum go, so that's good!

Can we go back to your, physician and auto mechanic, comment though...

I am going to need names of said medical people that don't make you wait in the lobby, then in the room, then go back out to figure why you are there, wait after, charge you even though you have insurance, take every single piece of personal information then ask for it again, then you have to call them at least twice for results/discussion, then call again regarding insurance information, then go back in to get your money back.

Mechanic... Confirm when to drop the car off, "any time this week" is not good enough, confirm they know what they are actually going to do, confirm that they have the actual parts there, confirm that the "only mechanic" who works on your car will be there "any time this week", call day after day to see if your car is ready, wait the weekend and call on Monday to see if it's ready, look at the bill and see that they didn't do what they were supposed to do. Repeat the cycle...

Hit em straight! 🙂

Edited June 28, 2021 by DYOS4

naws-golfer · July 2, 2021

That’s a lot for sure. A few thoughts.

if it’s an indoor bay fitting, just bring the balls you play the most. Done.

the ping g425 has 5 stock shaft options, and I know most companies have a number of shafts that are no charge. You should be able to tell any fitter your budget, so he doesn’t try to put you into a wildly expensive exotic tour-only shaft.

ping does a really nice job of having very different stock shafts and should be able to find a profile that is most advantageous for your swing and budget.

also most place that charge a fitting fee can offer a rebate or Petipa rebate of that feel if you buy the driver through them.