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Driver shaft question (should I look for a new one, should i just adjust loft, get a bigger grip?)


rooski
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Hey so I have a driver that I truly love the head on (RadSpeed set to 9* with weight forward). I bomb this thing, love the feel, love the sound, love the look. However I bought it with a stock shaft from their website so didn't get a chance to test out anything else anywhere local

 

I currently struggle with a reasonably consistent (40-50% of shots roughly) left miss that doesn't seem to be related to any swing fault as I swing 1-2* in-to-out consistently and it doesn't show up in any other clubs down the line. I occasionally will leave one out right but I can always feel that being caused by a timing issue or swing fault. The left misses aren't hooks by any means, usually just a straight pull with a few yards of draw, that probably are a bit lower and fall out of the sky a bit quicker than the stock shot which is a higher draw from right center back to center. This would lead me to think that I'm just closing down the face a little bit but I'm not sure why.

 

What are the most likely culprits for this one? Should I spend some time looking for a new shaft? Could it simply come down to grip size? It comes with a grip that is maybe just over standard, I've got a bit over 8.5 inch hands so it seems like it could be likely but I have standard size grips on some interim irons while I wait for a new order and don't struggle with the same left miss.

 

Hoping for any ideas, what some of the experts here think I could do to get this figured out.

 

image.png.6166369cbad47b335a47ccb6961ae1a9.png 

Edited by rooski

Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

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What stock shaft do you have? There offerings are above average for most OEMs

Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with Hzrdus RDX Blue 70g 6.0 (back up:Callaway Epic Flash SZ with  Tensei Orange Pro S (1" tipped) at 44.75")

2H: Callaway Super Hybrid with Tensei Orange Pro Hyb 80 Stiff 

3H: Sub70 939X UST proforce V2 black F3 hybrid soft stepped XStiff 

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 1/4" long 

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid (Backup 54*,60*: Ping S Tour KBS Tour Stiff 3* up)

Putter: Putter: TAII #2  

Ball: Snell MTB-X

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

What stock shaft do you have? There offerings are above average for most OEMs

 

Hey sorry I probably should have put that in the post body but I incorrectly figured my signature might catch folks eyes on the way down. I'm rocking the HZRDUS Smoke Blue in X-Stiff, it's a fine shaft but I haven't really compared any other 2020 or newer driver shafts to know what is out there nowadays. I'm not even necessarily blaming the shaft as a reason for the miss cause I'm really not sure what's causing it, but I just think the ball heading left off this clubface intuitively feels more like a fitting issue than a swing issue as its consistent and doesn't match up with the stats I see on launch monitors for other clubs. 

 

Unfortunately I haven't been able to spend a lot of time on a monitor with a driver specifically

 

I swing the driver at ~125mph if that helps inform anything you're thinking about i.r.t the shaft

Edited by rooski

Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

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If your typical miss is low and left, my first thought is that you need a stiffer (or heavier) shaft, or a profile with less hinge (i.e. Diamana "white" instead of "blue"). 

 

Your signature shows a Smoke Blue in X-Stiff, but you don't mention if that's a 60-series or a 70-series. 

 

Its probably worthwhile to pay for a driver fitting to see what they would fit you for.  At your SS I'd bet they put you in a 70X, so if the current shaft is a 60X that might explain the low/left miss.

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4 minutes ago, hagimihale said:

Your signature shows a Smoke Blue in X-Stiff, but you don't mention if that's a 60-series or a 70-series. 

 

Its probably worthwhile to pay for a driver fitting to see what they would fit you for.  At your SS I'd bet they put you in a 70X, so if the current shaft is a 60X that might explain the low/left miss.

 

Thanks for the response my man, looks like it's the 60 if I'm reading Cobra's website correctly

 

smokeblue.png.87d3ffbd26a2d158eddf67ef236ea95b.png

Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

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10 hours ago, rooski said:

What are the most likely culprits for this one?

 

Most likely cause is playing length too long.    You can use this to help you test out that and adjust (as well as test for shaft weight and swing weight - which would be the next most likely suspects):

 

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Most likely cause is playing length too long. 

 

Not sure that one's the case. I read through that thread and the info in there would point to me having too short of a driver shaft rather than too long of one if anything

My impact is consistently on the sweet spot or out towards the toe, I can't remember the last time i hit the driver off the heel

Edited by rooski

Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

BallVice Pro Plus

 

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6 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

Not sure that one's the case. I read through that thread and the info in there would point to me having too short of a driver shaft rather than too long of one if anything

My impact is consistently on the sweet spot or out towards the toe, I can't remember the last time i hit the driver off the heel

 

I would take the advice given by Stuart_G. Between him and Howard Jones (who's post he references) are two of the best resources WRX has for club fitting. He also mentions shaft weight and swing weight too, not just length.

 

Also curious what makes you think the pulls are not a swing fault, but the right miss is a fault? The dispersion on the picture provided looks wide with a slight left bias - not necessarily someone who needs an "anti-left" driver build. Just going off the data, it looks like tightening the dispersion should be the goal.

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2 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

He also mentions shaft weight and swing weight too, not just length.

 

I read through the thread and it was excellent information without a doubt. There were a few things down the thread that Howard Jones had mentioned about swing weight/shaft weight that seemed to suggest my shaft was too light but definitely need to get out and test things to be able to make that determination I think.

 

4 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

Also curious what makes you think the pulls are not a swing fault, but the right miss is a fault? The dispersion on the picture provided looks wide with a slight left bias

 

This comes mainly down to seeing the ball flight of what feels like great swings most of the time, with impact right on the center of the face. Agreed the dispersion in general is just a bit high but when looking at it, there are 9 shots out of 59 I'd consider a true pushed miss. I can distinctly remember pretty much each of them and it was always like "woah I was so late on that shot" after a day of road tripping or something where my legs aren't working right. There are 25+ of those 59 shots that fall under what I would consider the "low pull" and I have no similar feeling or understanding rather than "huh that swing felt pretty good not sure". Historically I've been quite good at feeling what is happening in my swing and understanding what I did to cause misses which is what led me to making the post.

 

I'll go reread deeper into the pages of that thread and see what I can find that he mentions about swing/shaft weight to see if it matches up with my experience

Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

BallVice Pro Plus

 

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Howard_Jones had a really nice and long reply down further in the thread that I skipped over the first time mentioning his concept of visual fitting and the way he described the difference in shaft weights on what it "feels like" to swing the shaft was magnificent

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Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

BallVice Pro Plus

 

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40 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

Not sure that one's the case. I read through that thread and the info in there would point to me having too short of a driver shaft rather than too long of one if anything

My impact is consistently on the sweet spot or out towards the toe, I can't remember the last time i hit the driver off the heel

 

The face impact location is only one aspect of length fitting and is not an absolute indicator.  That tutorial was really written for people for which the length is specifically causing face impact issues - so it's a bit of a simplification.  But length can have other effects on the swing and the results besides face impact location.  Length will also almost always amplify any timing issues and inconsistencies in the swing.    Only way to find out for sure is to choke up, adjust the head weight and instead of impact position, focus on how the ball flight tendencies compare to it at full length.

 

The tutorial is also good at showing you how to check to see if shaft weight or swing weight might be part of the problem as well as length.  Again just don't get overly focused on face impact.   Pay attention to the feel and the effect on rhythm and tempo.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

Length will also almost always amplify any timing issues and inconsistencies in the swing.    Only way to find out for sure is to choke up, adjust the head weight and instead of impact position, focus on how the ball flight tendencies compare to it at full length.

 

The tutorial is also good at showing you how to check to see if shaft weight or swing weight might be part of the problem as well as length.  Again just don't get overly focused on face impact.   Pay attention to the feel and the effect on rhythm and tempo.

 

Excellent, I've re-read what he posted a few times already and definitely have a few things I'd like to try, thanks a lot for your opinions and thoughts.

 

I was probably too quickly focused on the face impact since it seemed to be the primary purpose of the post but now I understand I just skimmed it too fast.

 

I do currently feel like the way he described a strong player with a shaft too light fits the bill pretty well where I have to artificially make sure I micromanage my tempo and the transition feels forced and odd. I'm very interested to try his suggestion of simulating a higher shaft weight, although I will try out the shaft length simulations first to see if I can get some changes out of that

 

Thanks for your reply  

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Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

BallVice Pro Plus

 

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30 minutes ago, rooski said:

I do currently feel like the way he described a strong player with a shaft too light fits the bill pretty well where I have to artificially make sure I micromanage my tempo and the transition feels forced and odd. I'm very interested to try his suggestion of simulating a higher shaft weight, although I will try out the shaft length simulations first to see if I can get some changes out of that

 

Thanks for your reply  

 

No problem.

 

Sometimes the reading can take a bit more effort to digest fully since English isn't Howard's native language.

 

Just realize that the ideal is to go through the process to refit/retest the shaft weight (and swing weight) for each different length you try.   It can be time consuming but sometimes it can make a difference.   The more you do it, the faster the process becomes as you learn how your tendencies change with the various spec changes.

Edited by Stuart_G
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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2021 at 9:01 AM, Stuart_G said:

Just realize that the ideal is to go through the process to refit/retest the shaft weight (and swing weight) for each different length you try.   It can be time consuming but sometimes it can make a difference.

 

Thanks for your opinions in this thread, I spent a while on the range today with an acquaintance who's a master club fitter and while we didn't do much of any launch monitoring we did a really good feel and visual fitting for an hour or so with a number of different weights and shafts and determined that my shaft was both too long and significantly too light.

 

The different in dispersions between my current shaft and some others were hilarious.

 

Ended up ordering the Ventus Black 7X butt-cut one inch as the swing weight of the shorter shaft was ideal but I really don't need the 7x Black to be any stiffer than stock.

 

I would have never thought to look at shaft length without your opinions so thanks again for chiming in

Edited by rooski
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Driver Cobra RadSpeed 9.0* Fujikura Ventus Black 7X

Fairway: Cobra RadSpeed 3w Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 X

Utility Srixon ZX 18* / Fujikura Ventus Black HB 10TX
Irons:  Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW / Project X LS 6.5
Wedges:  Mizuno T20 Raw 50, 54, 58 / Project X LS 6.0

PutterOdyssey Toulon Atlanta / Ben Hogan BHM01 (37")

BallVice Pro Plus

 

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