When to apply handicap percentage

[StudentGolfer4]

I have always wondered this but never gotten a definitive answer. If I am playing an event and the rule is 80% of your handicap is that 80% of the index or 80% of the course handicap?

 

Example 1). Someone is an 8.0 and getting 10 for the course handicap. Taking 80% they will get 8. 
 

Example 2). Someone is an 8. Taking 80% they get 6.4. Factor in the course handicap and they get 9. 
 

I know that most of the time they will be the same number but not always. We have all scene the decimal being .1 off and that equalling a full stroke. Or am I just overthinking all of this? 

[rogolf]

Have a look at these USGA infographics

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Handicap/WHS-How-To-Use-Your-Handicap-Index.pdf

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/handicap_allowances_detailed.pdf

 

[Newby]

From the WHS Rules of Handicapping

https://www.my-golf.uk/world-handicap-system-rules-of-handicapping-manual/

 

6.2 Playing Handicap Calculation

6.2a Standard Calculation

A Playing Handicap is calculated as follows:

Playing Handicap = Course Handicap x handicap allowance

The calculated Playing Handicap is rounded to the nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards.

For recommended handicap allowances, see Appendix C.

[StudentGolfer4]

Thanks guys. Found it: “handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

 

My only confusion there is course handicaps are always a whole number anyway. Why include unrounded course handicap? Indexes can be a decimal but not course handicaps. 
 

https://www.usga.org/handicap-calculator/course-handicap-table.html?cr=73.3&sr=133&par=72

[Hawkeye77]

29 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Thanks guys. Found it: “handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

 

My only confusion there is course handicaps are always a whole number anyway. Why include unrounded course handicap? Indexes can be a decimal but not course handicaps. 
 

https://www.usga.org/handicap-calculator/course-handicap-table.html?cr=73.3&sr=133&par=72

How do you apply the formula to determine course handicap and always get a whole number (before rounding)?

Edited March 2, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[SNIPERBBB]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

How do you apply the formula to determine course handicap and always get a whole number (before rounding)?

You dont

 

Note: The calculated 18-hole and 9-hole Course Handicap is rounded to the nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards, for the purpose of:

• Applying adjustments for maximum hole score (see Rule 3.1 Maximum Hole Score for Handicap Purposes) and when a hole is not played (see Rule 3.2 When a Hole is Not Played).
• Where applicable, calculating a Score Differential.

Otherwise, the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.

[StudentGolfer4]

31 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

How do you apply the formula to determine course handicap and always get a whole number (before rounding)?

Ah I see what you mean. When I plug in an index, slope, and course rating it always gives me a full number. The link I posted above showing a course handicap table already rounds that number for you. 

[rogolf]

2 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Thanks guys. Found it: “handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

 

My only confusion there is course handicaps are always a whole number anyway. Why include unrounded course handicap? Indexes can be a decimal but not course handicaps. 
 

https://www.usga.org/handicap-calculator/course-handicap-table.html?cr=73.3&sr=133&par=72

The instructions (at least in North America) are to use the unrounded course handicap, ie the value before it is rounded to whole number, in applying the allowance, then do the rounding for the playing handicap.  Imo, the purpose of using the unrounded course handicap is to reduce "rounding errors".  The more times you round numbers during a calculation process, the less accurate the final result will be.

Do an internet search for "rounding error".

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Thanks guys. Found it: “handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

 

My only confusion there is course handicaps are always a whole number anyway. Why include unrounded course handicap? Indexes can be a decimal but not course handicaps. 
 

https://www.usga.org/handicap-calculator/course-handicap-table.html?cr=73.3&sr=133&par=72

 

USGA Course Handicap Calculator

[Newby]

13 minutes ago, rogolf said:

The instructions (at least in North America) are to use the unrounded course handicap, ie the value before it is rounded to whole number, in applying the allowance, then do the rounding for the playing handicap. 

That is not the case in England. The CH is an integer.

[rogolf]

3 minutes ago, Newby said:

That is not the case in England. The CH is an integer.

And that's why I mentioned North America.  The World Handicap System is not the same around the world (yet).  I understand that Scotland uses the same method as NA?

Edited March 2, 2022 by rogolf

[nsxguy]

20 minutes ago, Newby said:

That is not the case in England. The CH is an integer.

 

CH is an integer in the US as well.

 

BUT, when calculating a Playing Handicap, the unrounded result, that is PRE-rounding result of the CH calc, is used before coming up with the PH.

 

Then the PH is rounded.

Edited March 2, 2022 by nsxguy

[Newby]

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

CH is an integer in the US as well.

 

BUT, when calculating a Playing Handicap, the unrounded result, that is PRE-rounding result of the CH calc, is used before coming up with the PH.

 

Then the PH is rounded.

I should made it clearer. The rounded figure is used to calculate the PH.

[Newby]

29 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I understand that Scotland uses the same method as NA?

You are correct

Edited March 2, 2022 by Newby

[StudentGolfer4]

46 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

USGA Course Handicap Calculator

This is what I have always used. It also led to my confusion about course handicap being a whole number but I understand that’s what others are saying too. 
 

What I’ve learned from this thread is find the course handicap and then take X percentage of that

Edited March 2, 2022 by StudentGolfer4

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

The instructions (at least in North America) are to use the unrounded course handicap, ie the value before it is rounded to whole number, in applying the allowance, then do the rounding for the playing handicap.  Imo, the purpose of using the unrounded course handicap is to reduce "rounding errors".  The more times you round numbers during a calculation process, the less accurate the final result will be.

Do an internet search for "rounding error".

 

Where to you get the unrounded CH, you calculate it with the formula? Who makes the calculation in a competition, the Committee?

[nsxguy]

23 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

This is what I have always used. It also led to my confusion about course handicap being a whole number but I understand that’s what others are saying too. 
 

What I’ve learned from this thread is find the course handicap and then take X percentage of that

 

If you're in the US you take the UNrounded CH and THEN apply the PH percentage.

 

That's what the calculator does (although I confess I haven't gone through enough manual calcs to prove it ).

[davep043]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Where to you get the unrounded CH, you calculate it with the formula? Who makes the calculation in a competition, the Committee?

In my experience, the Committee generally does provide the Playing Handicap, using computer software provided by the USGA (Golf Genius).  I've done a few spot checks, and the Playing Handicaps are indeed calculated as described, using the unrounded CH and then reducing by the appropriate percentage based on format of competition to determine a PH, rounded to a whole number.  The smartphone app used by most of us in the USGA areas also can do the same calculation correctly.

[nsxguy]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Where to you get the unrounded CH, you calculate it with the formula? Who makes the calculation in a competition, the Committee?

 

I would assume all competitors CHs and PHs are calculated by the Committee - you know, to avoid <cough> errors <cough>.

 

The calculator I linked above does both steps. I would assume the USGA app does as well (I seldom use phone apps).

[Mr. Bean]

8 minutes ago, davep043 said:

In my experience, the Committee generally does provide the Playing Handicap, using computer software provided by the USGA (Golf Genius).  I've done a few spot checks, and the Playing Handicaps are indeed calculated as described, using the unrounded CH and then reducing by the appropriate percentage based on format of competition to determine a PH, rounded to a whole number.  The smartphone app used by most of us in the USGA areas also can do the same calculation correctly.

 

Thanks.

 

When do you use these unrounded CHs? Only in handicap allowance competitions? We always use integers.

[davep043]

1 minute ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Thanks.

 

When do you use these unrounded CHs? Only in handicap allowance competitions? We always use integers.

We also only use integers when that is the "final" number.  I can't think of any time when a player would see the unrounded CH, unless he's seeing it as an intermediate step in calculating a PH.  I suppose you might see an unrounded number (CH or PH, it should work out the same either way) if you were responsible for dividing a group of players into flights of a specific size, based on Handicap.

[StudentGolfer4]

31 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

If you're in the US you take the UNrounded CH and THEN apply the PH percentage.

 

That's what the calculator does (although I confess I haven't gone through enough manual calcs to prove it ).

Hmmm just when I thought I had it figured out. Using the calculator you linked earlier, is there a way to get the Unrounded CH from that? It seems to keep giving me a rounded number 

[rogolf]

10 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Hmmm just when I thought I had it figured out. Using the calculator you linked earlier, is there a way to get the Unrounded CH from that? It seems to keep giving me a rounded number 

As nsxguy and the USGA references say, in North America, you use the unrounded course handicap to calculate playing handicap when applying an allowance.  Round to a whole number after applying the allowance.

Other countries may do it differently for whatever reason.

[nsxguy]

31 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Hmmm just when I thought I had it figured out. Using the calculator you linked earlier, is there a way to get the Unrounded CH from that? It seems to keep giving me a rounded number 

 

I just tried the APP and it's terrific. Gives you all the numbers at once.

 

For the LINK I gave you, no, I don't see any way of getting the unrounded number BUT, you don't need it.

 

It gives the rounded CH. Then, as you've no doubt discovered, you click on the Playing Handicap "button", enter the percentage and then it gives the PH rounded.

 

The calculator either "holds onto" the unrounded CH, or simply re-calculates from the beginning.

 

 

If you want to prove the PH numbers are accurate you'd have to use a real calculator to do the CH calc and then use the unrounded result for the PH and then round up or down and see if it matches - I'm sure it will. 👍

Edited March 2, 2022 by nsxguy

[rogolf]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I just tried the APP and it's terrific. Gives you all the numbers at once.

 

For the LINK I gave you, no, I don't see any way of getting the unrounded number BUT, you don't need it.

 

It gives the rounded CH. Then, as you've no doubt discovered, you click on the Playing Handicap "button", enter the percentage and then it gives the PH rounded.

 

The calculator either "holds onto" the unrounded CH, or simply re-calculates from the beginning.

 

 

If you want to prove the PH numbers are accurate you'd have to use a real calculator to do the CH calc and then use the unrounded result for the PH and then round up or down and see if it matches - I'm sure it will. 👍

Nobody uses a real calculator any more.  Everyone wants somebody or something else to work it out!

[davep043]

56 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Hmmm just when I thought I had it figured out. Using the calculator you linked earlier, is there a way to get the Unrounded CH from that? It seems to keep giving me a rounded number 

Why would you want to see the unrounded CH, other than checking that the computer is doing the calculation correctly?  If that's your goal, you can just use your own calculator, and the formula found in Section 6.1 here:

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

Course Handicap    =    Handicap Index    x    (Slope Rating ÷ 113)    +    (Course Rating – par)

and of course:

Playing Handicap    =    Course Handicap    x    handicap allowance

Now you could set up a spreadsheet, vary the Handicap Index by steps of 0.1, and calculate CH and PH for each.  You'd see the Rounded PH will break at different spots than it would if you used the Rounded CH.  

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by davep043

[Newby]

This is typical of charts used in England although all the apps available display the players PH also.

[StudentGolfer4]

4 hours ago, davep043 said:

Why would you want to see the unrounded CH, other than checking that the computer is doing the calculation correctly?  If that's your goal, you can just use your own calculator, and the formula found in Section 6.1 here:

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

Course Handicap    =    Handicap Index    x    (Slope Rating ÷ 113)    +    (Course Rating – par)

and of course:

Playing Handicap    =    Course Handicap    x    handicap allowance

Now you could set up a spreadsheet, vary the Handicap Index by steps of 0.1, and calculate CH and PH for each.  You'd see the Rounded PH will break at different spots than it would if you used the Rounded CH.  

 

If we are taking 80% of players course handicap it sounds like I need the unrounded CH. 

 

“handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

[Newby]

10 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

If we are taking 80% of players course handicap it sounds like I need the unrounded CH. 

 

“handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

It depends on which country you are playing in.

[davep043]

14 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

If we are taking 80% of players course handicap it sounds like I need the unrounded CH. 

 

“handicap allowances are applied to each players unrounded course handicap prior to determining their playing handicap for the round.”

Yes, in the USGA areas at least.  I was really just letting you know that you're not limited to the online Handicap Calculator, you can calculate these things the old-fashioned way, using the actual formulae from the Rules.  I suppose you COULD go even more old-fashioned, and use paper and pencil, if you can remember how to do long division (assuming you're old enough to have learned long division).