Will shorter iron lengths help me not be so upright?

[NerdyGolfer]

I’ve taken a few lessons lately and one of the things I’m consistently hearing (from different coaches) is that I’m far too upright. I can’t seem to snap out of it and continue to go back to a fairly upright position. They push me down and it just doesn’t feel comfortable. I know when I’m back at it because I usually will have a series of shanks. 
 

my most recent round I had multiple shanks back to back, got up to the next hole and ripped an iron with nearly perfect contact. My change? I choked down. Did I do this on purpose, no. But it got me thinking…

 

Ive gone and shortened my driver and started getting strikes further out on the face. I’m planning on doing the same for my woods and hybrids. Would shortening my irons help me get back over the ball and greatly reduce my chance for a shank?
 

for reference, I tend to have a bit of a fade. My swing path is fairly over the top. My strikes are fairly heely and I’m a smidge over 5’-7”. SS around 103-105 for my driver

 

Thank you!

[hammersia]

Or you could flatten the lie angles if you already like the swing weight. Need a video really.

[ShortGolfer]

Have you seen a fitter?  My clubs are 2 degrees upright.  The fitter bent a club to  be sure that worked for me.

 

[NerdyGolfer]

5 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

Have you seen a fitter?  My clubs are 2 degrees upright.  The fitter bent a club to  be sure that worked for me.

 

I’ve seen many fitters and no one ever focuses on shorter lengths. They only take your “standard” look at lengths based on your height.
 

My current setup is 2* upright, so that isn’t the fix. It’s more of the theory behind if your strike it on the heel for your driver, a shorter shaft will help push your strikes further out on the face. 

[NerdyGolfer]

15 minutes ago, hammersia said:

Or you could flatten the lie angles if you already like the swing weight. Need a video really.

If I flatten my clubs, I’ll slice like crazy lol. Currently play 2* upright. 
 

let me see if I can dig up an old video!

[Dufferonius]

Gripping-down on the club may or may not be the right thing to do.  Amateur golfers often apply fixes to flaws that compensate for a flaw, rather than fix it.

 

I'd start with the Ping static fitting chart to get a gross take on whether "standard" length clubs are right for you, in the first place.  This is no substitute for a proper fitting, but it's a start.

 

Can you tell us just what changes in your stance these various instructors have been recommending?

 

I no longer recall the checkpoints for a traditional (aka: "athletic") golf stance (shoulders back, butt-out), but a proper stance with my current training (rounded shoulders, straight back) results in a stance where there should be a straight line from my armpits, across the fronts of my knees, to the balls of my feet, and my hands more-or-less just out over my toes.

 

One of the things I've done in my training is placed registration markers on the floor so I always assume the exact same setup--ingraining the feel of that stance and club position.  One drill I do is get in my stance and put the club down with my eyes closed, then look to make sure the club head ends-up behind the "ball."  Then, on the range or (eventually) course: I'll take that ingrained position, irrespective of where my club head ends up, and kind of shuffle/duck-walk the club head to the ball.  This ensures I won't subtly alter my stance and setup.

 

It's important to understand the golf swing is kind of like dominoes.  You have to have a proper stance to get a proper setup.  You have to have a proper setup to achieve a proper take-away.  You have to have a good take-away to achieve a good back-swing.  You have to have a good back-swing from which to initiate a good downswing.  Get anything wrong any step of the way, and everything "downstream" will suffer.

 

[ShortGolfer]

The Ping chart suggested I could used standard ladies clubs.  My fitter suggested an inch shorter.

While waiting for my new clubs I cut the old ones down an inch and found that worked better for me.

I took them out to the back yard and tested them with Callaway foam golf balls.

I discovered that the lower swing weight wasn't an issue, so I didn't bother adding lead tape.

Previously I'd add lead tape because I thought the swing weight was too low.

A huge benefit to getting fitted was learning what was wrong for me.  When you are a beginner you don't know whether it is the club or your swing.

For me, I learned my swing is "good enough."  If it doesn't feel right is the the club.

Often, the first swing is the best swing I'll take with a club.

Edited September 26, 2022 by ShortGolfer

[mikpga]

Improve path into ball…

[Cwing]

From your post, it sounds like you are taking lessons from different coaches? I’d ask why you would do this and if the advice/suggestions you are getting are consistent from coach to coach and lesson to lesson?

 

Also, are looking for a quick fix or for an improved golf swing? 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Cwing

[bladehunter]

I’d be hesitant about anyone who tells someone to stand farther from the ball.  Or swing flatter.  Upright is a gift if used correctly.  
 

improve your path.  Shanks are never ever ever caused by standing too close to the ball. Or being too upright. They’re caused by coming from the inside too much.  Laying the plane down and or standing farther away usually makes that worse ( coming from the inside. ).    I’d see someone here like Monty etc for another opinion with video.  
 

im upright and I can line up on the hosel and can’t hit a shank to save my life.  Unless I suck it inside for a hook.  Fix the path.  Not the plane. 
 

tyat being said. At 5-7.  You might be onto something with under length irons etc.   I’m opposite and need almost an inch over titleist stabdard , and all my wedges are a full inch over and all same length.   And I went from  toe contact to middle Doing that years ago.  I couldn’t  reach the ball.  
 

Easy to test. Just choke up for a round  or two 

Edited September 26, 2022 by bladehunter

[NerdyGolfer]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’d be hesitant about anyone who tells someone to stand farther from the ball.  Or swing flatter.  Upright is a gift if used correctly.  
 

improve your path.  Shanks are never ever ever caused by standing too close to the ball. Or being too upright. They’re caused by coming from the inside too much.  Laying the plane down and or standing farther away usually makes that worse ( coming from the inside. ).    I’d see someone here like Monty etc for another opinion with video.  
 

im upright and I can line up on the hosel and can’t hit a shank to save my life.  Unless I suck it inside for a hook.  Fix the path.  Not the plane. 
 

tyat being said. At 5-7.  You might be onto something with under length irons etc.   I’m opposite and need almost an inch over titleist stabdard , and all my wedges are a full inch over and all same length.   And I went from  toe contact to middle Doing that years ago.  I couldn’t  reach the ball.  
 

Easy to test. Just choke up for a round  or two 

This is exactly what I was looking for. Based on some of my research, I've found exactly what you are describing. "Generally speaking" if your clubs are too short you might see a ton of toe strikes. If your clubs are took long, you might see a bunch of heel strikes. Now this varies from player to player for obvious reasons, but this school of thought stems from Howards DIY driver fitting and many others agreeing with this very broad school of thought. Swing path can change this quickly, but one thing is for certain, I am a heel striker and when I shortened my driver I got out on the toe side of center and it has been a literal life saver. No fitter has EVER suggested this and it blows my mind. I've never had a fitter look at face contact on irons or woods and suggest shorter or longer shafts and that just blows my mind..

 

As for the lessons and my "coaches". Bit of a long story there, but had a really good coach and he left the state, moved to someone else and he was half rate at best and I bounced for a bit and have yet to find a quality coach for my game. 100% of them have said I'm too upright and I agree. When i'm further "over" the ball my path is much better. When I'm more upright I rely too heavily on fractions of an inch of timing or I hit a shank. However, when I'm further over the ball, my contact gradually pushes further out on the face, I'm able to turn the ball over and hit nearly any shot I'd like. This is fairly new for me and something I think I picked up when I hurt my wrist over a year ago.

 

Would love to line up on the hosel and never hit a shank lol. I know there are drills that do that exact thing, but that's more of a mental/ timing thing and that's just a quick fix, not a permanent one

[NerdyGolfer]

31 minutes ago, Cwing said:

From your post, it sounds like you are taking lessons from different coaches? I’d ask why you would do this and if the advice/suggestions you are getting are consistent from coach to coach and lesson to lesson?

 

Also, are looking for a quick fix or for an improved golf swing? 

Responded to your comment on the wrong quote. But see above for my coaching dilemma. Definitely not looking for a quick fix. 

[NerdyGolfer]

1 hour ago, mikpga said:

Improve path into ball…

Care to elaborate?

[NerdyGolfer]

2 hours ago, ShortGolfer said:

The Ping chart suggested I could used standard ladies clubs.  My fitter suggested an inch shorter.

While waiting for my new clubs I cut the old ones down an inch and found that worked better for me.

I took them out to the back yard and tested them with Callaway foam golf balls.

I discovered that the lower swing weight wasn't an issue, so I didn't bother adding lead tape.

Previously I'd add lead tape because I thought the swing weight was too low.

A huge benefit to getting fitted was learning what was wrong for me.  When you are a beginner you don't know whether it is the club or your swing.

For me, I learned my swing is "good enough."  If it doesn't feel right is the the club.

Often, the first swing is the best swing I'll take with a club.

All good things here. I agree on the SW as I too have found lighter seems to work better for me, but I'm toeing a fine line between too light and just right.

 

I've yet to have a fitter suggest shorter for me and it's insanely frustrating. I've been to over a dozen different fitters with the same results. Everyone fits for the same length and never suggests shorter unless you are very short or a female. I self fit now because of the knowledge I've gained and it has worked well for me. I'm fairly dialed in when it comes to shafts and such and know my profile and swing very well. I'm just looking to see if there's any commonsense behind shortening based on my contact location. 

 

I also read somewhere that about 80-90% of golfers are playing "too long" of clubs and could benefit from going shorter. That stat blew me away because of how fearful fitters are of going shorter. With tour driver shaft lengths averaging well below the stock lengths that is just insanity.

[NerdyGolfer]

2 hours ago, Dufferonius said:

Gripping-down on the club may or may not be the right thing to do.  Amateur golfers often apply fixes to flaws that compensate for a flaw, rather than fix it.

 

I'd start with the Ping static fitting chart to get a gross take on whether "standard" length clubs are right for you, in the first place.  This is no substitute for a proper fitting, but it's a start.

 

Can you tell us just what changes in your stance these various instructors have been recommending?

 

I no longer recall the checkpoints for a traditional (aka: "athletic") golf stance (shoulders back, butt-out), but a proper stance with my current training (rounded shoulders, straight back) results in a stance where there should be a straight line from my armpits, across the fronts of my knees, to the balls of my feet, and my hands more-or-less just out over my toes.

 

One of the things I've done in my training is placed registration markers on the floor so I always assume the exact same setup--ingraining the feel of that stance and club position.  One drill I do is get in my stance and put the club down with my eyes closed, then look to make sure the club head ends-up behind the "ball."  Then, on the range or (eventually) course: I'll take that ingrained position, irrespective of where my club head ends up, and kind of shuffle/duck-walk the club head to the ball.  This ensures I won't subtly alter my stance and setup.

 

It's important to understand the golf swing is kind of like dominoes.  You have to have a proper stance to get a proper setup.  You have to have a proper setup to achieve a proper take-away.  You have to have a good take-away to achieve a good back-swing.  You have to have a good back-swing from which to initiate a good downswing.  Get anything wrong any step of the way, and everything "downstream" will suffer.

 

"proper fitting" is subjective. I've been to far too many fitters and none of them have suggested going shorter on my clubs.

 

But your take on the swing is spot on. Dominoes is the perfect analogy here as there's no other way to describe it. 

 

Most of the coaches have suggested getting more bend at my hips, sticking my butt out further and slightly more bend in my knees. All of it feels weird, but sometimes it works. Swing changes always feel uncomfortable, but this is one that just hasn't stuck with me. However, after reading a few things on the old google, I did find that clubs that are too long for someone will force them to stand too upright due to overcompensation. This is where I'm really getting at with my post. For some reason it just feels like I HAVE to stand upright as when I bend it just doesn't feel right. But when I choke down it naturally forces me to bend in a more natural way that doesn't seem forced. (if that makes sense). So basically...could I be onto something is really what I'm after

[ShortGolfer]

I clearly communicated to my fitter what I wanted.  I made it clear that dispersion was more important than distance as I was perfectly happy playing from the forward tees.

 

It may be that fitters have had bad reactions to suggesting ladies clubs or short clubs, even though that is what fits best.

My Stealth driver/3HL have ladies heads which are lighter than the men's version.

 

I've not taken lessons as an adult.  My job is to figure stuff out.  If I have a problem with my swing I've always been able to figure it out.

As a stroke survivor I have a keen sense on how long it takes to adapt to new things.  Well, sort of.  It was slow at the beginning to the season,

then everything came together really quickly.  No sophomore slump!😀

Edited September 26, 2022 by ShortGolfer

[bladehunter]

49 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

This is exactly what I was looking for. Based on some of my research, I've found exactly what you are describing. "Generally speaking" if your clubs are too short you might see a ton of toe strikes. If your clubs are took long, you might see a bunch of heel strikes. Now this varies from player to player for obvious reasons, but this school of thought stems from Howards DIY driver fitting and many others agreeing with this very broad school of thought. Swing path can change this quickly, but one thing is for certain, I am a heel striker and when I shortened my driver I got out on the toe side of center and it has been a literal life saver. No fitter has EVER suggested this and it blows my mind. I've never had a fitter look at face contact on irons or woods and suggest shorter or longer shafts and that just blows my mind..

 

As for the lessons and my "coaches". Bit of a long story there, but had a really good coach and he left the state, moved to someone else and he was half rate at best and I bounced for a bit and have yet to find a quality coach for my game. 100% of them have said I'm too upright and I agree. When i'm further "over" the ball my path is much better. When I'm more upright I rely too heavily on fractions of an inch of timing or I hit a shank. However, when I'm further over the ball, my contact gradually pushes further out on the face, I'm able to turn the ball over and hit nearly any shot I'd like. This is fairly new for me and something I think I picked up when I hurt my wrist over a year ago.

 

Would love to line up on the hosel and never hit a shank lol. I know there are drills that do that exact thing, but that's more of a mental/ timing thing and that's just a quick fix, not a permanent one

To clarify.  Lining up on the hosel to never shank it rewires an outside to inside path both going back and coming into the ball .  It’s more of a point driven trick I was shown to illustrate how shanks happen.  Usually it’s inside to out path and no real turn.  So all hands.  
 

in your case. It may be very well the club length.   Common sense says if too short makes toe strikes where you can’t get down to reach the ball , then too long might cause the opposite.  Especially if compounded with a part issue or a dip of the head etc. 

 

mid put a reminder ( marker stripe etc ) on my grip to remind me to choke down for a couple rounds and see. It’s not an exact same simulation but it’s close.  If it’s favorable , have them cut and regripped. 

[Dufferonius]

30 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

"proper fitting" is subjective. I've been to far too many fitters and none of them have suggested going shorter on my clubs.

Ok, so: You've had instructors tell you to stand more upright and fitters feel your clubs are the correct length for you.  I'm going to suggest that maybe, just maybe, your clubs are the correct length for you and your stance is, in fact, bad?

 

30 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

 

But your take on the swing is spot on. Dominoes is the perfect analogy here as there's no other way to describe it. 

You'd be surprised how few amateur golfers get that.  Even something as "little" as a grip change can bubble through your entire swing.

 

30 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

Most of the coaches have suggested getting more bend at my hips, sticking my butt out further and slightly more bend in my knees. All of it feels weird, but sometimes it works.

Ah, so the "traditional" (aka: "athletic") stance.  Shoulders back, head up, butt out.  Yeah, that's what my first instructor taught us.  It felt weird. It felt uncomfortable.  I hated it.

 

One of the problems to which it can lead is, in an attempt to emphasize the "shoulders back, butt-out" thing, amateur golfers often unconsciously curve their backs in.  Very, very bad for the back.  Good path to back injury.

 

According to my current instructor, the traditional/athletic stance is all wrong, biomechanically.

 

30 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

But when I choke down it naturally forces me to bend in a more natural way that doesn't seem forced. (if that makes sense). So basically...could I be onto something is really what I'm after

You may be, but there are "ways to bend" and "ways to bend..." You can do all kinds of stuff to bend, but some may lead down a path that will cause you to have to add compensations to correct for swing path flaws (compensations complicate the swing and, for that reason, are always something one should seek to avoid) or, worse, may lead to injury.

 

Best thing I could find, similar to what my current instructors teach, is this thread over at The Sand Trap: https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/36610-shoulders-at-address-rounded-or-back/

 

There's a thread somewhere here on WRX that mentioned the stance, too... ah, here it is: 

 

The way my instructors have us achieve the stance they teach is stand up straight, do a standing ab crunch (this rounds the upper back, keeping the lower back straight), drop arms straight down, break knees slightly.

 

[NerdyGolfer]

7 minutes ago, Dufferonius said:

Ok, so: You've had instructors tell you to stand more upright and fitters feel your clubs are the correct length for you.  I'm going to suggest that maybe, just maybe, your clubs are the correct length for you and your stance is, in fact, bad?

The opposite actually. I say they've never suggested it mainly because they've all been bad fitters. I've hit heel side my entire life and up until recently have I even known that shorter could help with that. None of my fitters suggested this and I've been to some "top 100" fitters...insanely frustrating. They all mainly pump out 45.5" drivers and throw 30 shafts at me and say "I can't fit you" because I'm slicing like crazy. Yet when I shorten up, I'm able to turn the ball over. Wild stuff..

 

10 minutes ago, Dufferonius said:

Ah, so the "traditional" (aka: "athletic") stance.  Shoulders back, head up, butt out.  Yeah, that's what my first instructor taught us.  It felt weird. It felt uncomfortable.  I hated it.

 

One of the problems to which it can lead is, in an attempt to emphasize the "shoulders back, butt-out" thing, amateur golfers often unconsciously curve their backs in.  Very, very bad for the back.  Good path to back injury.

 

According to my current instructor, the traditional/athletic stance is all wrong, biomechanically.

100%...athletic is exactly what they want. My first instructor helped slightly in this realm but it was still very much uncomfortable and I kept going back to the norm because of it.

 

Thanks for the link drop as well! I'll check it all out!

[hammersia]

4 hours ago, NerdyGolfer said:

If I flatten my clubs, I’ll slice like crazy lol. Currently play 2* upright. 
 

let me see if I can dig up an old video!

But in the OP you said you were shanking it, so that would be an improvement.
 

Obviously if the clubs are very short you will have to setup more bent over. 
 

But none of the fitters you’ve seen have suggested you stand too upright. 
 

Honestly sounds like you’ve got fixed opinions that a multitude of fitters and coaches are not dissuading you from. 
 

It’s hard to decode what your actual question is.

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

To play even decent golf, one must present an athletic posture, so our swing can do its thing.  You can chase after someone who says otherwise, until the cows come home, but the proof is trusting in the pudding of history.  I don't care if a person has a big ole pot bell, like JD on the champions tour.  To hit the ball solidly, he still has to be athletic at address.  But, do as you must. 

 

I am 5'10, 212lbs, and play Titleist standard length & lie irons, just choke down about an 1" on all of them, which took some adjustment.  When I took up golf at 40, addressing the ball was not comfortable, but I stayed at it, and I have been an athlete of sorts all my life.  I didn't look for someone to validate my wishes, I read and adapted and found a swing.  Also, a 44.50" length driver helped.  It took time for me to adjust my attitude.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[NerdyGolfer]

1 hour ago, hammersia said:

But in the OP you said you were shanking it, so that would be an improvement.
 

Obviously if the clubs are very short you will have to setup more bent over. 
 

But none of the fitters you’ve seen have suggested you stand too upright. 
 

Honestly sounds like you’ve got fixed opinions that a multitude of fitters and coaches are not dissuading you from. 
 

It’s hard to decode what your actual question is.

 

 

The question is just simply, “will shorter shafts help me get over top of the ball better”

 

fitters aren’t always coaches, so they won’t catch a swing flaw like that. They usually can catch small ones but I had no idea I was upright until seeing my first coach. 
 

and when did I say I have fixed opinions? I’m confused where the hostility is coming from. Multiple coaches have said I stand too far upright and I can’t seem to break that habit. I think it’s the length of my clubs and that’s what I’m asking.

[NerdyGolfer]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

To play even decent golf, one must present an athletic posture, so our swing can do its thing.  You can chase after someone who says otherwise, until the cows come home, but the proof is trusting in the pudding of history.  I don't care if a person has a big ole pot bell, like JD on the champions tour.  To hit the ball solidly, he still has to be athletic at address.  But, do as you must. 

 

I am 5'10, 212lbs, and play Titleist standard length & lie irons, just choke down about an 1" on all of them, which took some adjustment.  When I took up golf at 40, addressing the ball was not comfortable, but I stayed at it, and I have been an athlete of sorts all my life.  I didn't look for someone to validate my wishes, I read and adapted and found a swing.  Also, a 44.50" length driver helped.  It took time for me to adjust my attitude.

I agree with you that you have to have somewhat of an athletic stance, definitely not swaying there. The one thing that I tend to get caught up in is when a coach tries to fit everyone in this pretty little box of a stance. An athletic stance is such a broad term and can mean many different things for many different sports. One thing is for certain (like you said) there needs to be a bend somewhere along the line or you’ll never make it back to the ball. How coaches teach that and how they set you up varies greatly and that’s been tough for me to catch onto.

 

the big thing here for me is could the length of my clubs be hindering me from getting into that position?

 

I also wouldn’t say I’m looking for validation of a fixed notion, it’s purely a question. I did “x” and “y” happened. Am I crazy? Or am I onto something? Is this coincidental or on purpose? 

[hammersia]

7 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

The question is just simply, “will shorter shafts help me get over top of the ball better”

 

fitters aren’t always coaches, so they won’t catch a swing flaw like that. They usually can catch small ones but I had no idea I was upright until seeing my first coach. 
 

and when did I say I have fixed opinions? I’m confused where the hostility is coming from. Multiple coaches have said I stand too far upright and I can’t seem to break that habit. I think it’s the length of my clubs and that’s what I’m asking.

No hostility here, just trying to understand the question.

 

In the OP you describe your path as “fairly over the top” and now you ask “if shorter shafts will get me over the top of the ball better”.  Why do you want to be “over the top of the ball”? Makes no sense. 
 

Others have told you that an upright swing can be a good thing. 
 

 

[hammersia]

How about this position, do you think this guy is too upright?

 

[NerdyGolfer]

4 hours ago, hammersia said:

In the OP you describe your path as “fairly over the top” and now you ask “if shorter shafts will get me over the top of the ball better”.  Why do you want to be “over the top of the ball”? Makes no sense. 

These are completely different fundamentals that you are combining that’s why it makes no sense.

 

my posture is too “tall” or “upright”. I cannot force myself to bend but when my shafts are shorter it seems to force me to do so. This is me getting over the ball.

 

my swing path is very much over the top and when combined with me standing too tall and having an inside to out (edit: out to in**) swing path it is a recipe for disaster. But when I bend properly I’m able to get the face to rotate and the hosel out of the way, therefore a shank does not happen.

 

so it all comes back to the original question. Should my iron shafts be shorter. That’s all I’m asking.

Edited September 27, 2022 by NerdyGolfer

[hammersia]

45 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

These are completely different fundamentals that you are combining that’s why it makes no sense.

 

my posture is too “tall” or “upright”. I cannot force myself to bend but when my shafts are shorter it seems to force me to do so. This is me getting over the ball.

 

my swing path is very much over the top and when combined with me standing too tall and having an inside to out swing path it is a recipe for disaster. But when I bend properly I’m able to get the face to rotate and the hosel out of the way, therefore a shank does not happen.

 

so it all comes back to the original question. Should my iron shafts be shorter. That’s all I’m asking.

“Over the top inside to out swing path” …. No such thing. Over the top is out to in. 
 

Yes go shorter. Please report back. 

[NerdyGolfer]

9 minutes ago, hammersia said:

“Over the top inside to out swing path” …. No such thing. Over the top is out to in. 
 

Yes go shorter. Please report back. 

My fault. Yes that is what I meant, out to in. I’m going to do some tests and see how short I should go and I’ll report back

[Krt22]

You can choke up a bit, I bet it will have very little impact on your over-all swing

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

3 hours ago, NerdyGolfer said:

my swing path is very much over the top and when combined with me standing too tall and having an inside to out swing path it is a recipe for disaster

Apologies if this has been addressed (pun not intended), but as a former OTT swinger, how are you both OTT, and inside to out?

 

When I was OTT (and also quite upright in stance and now lie too:  though two haven't changed much), my out to in path was at times around 8 degrees.  In to out wasn't happening.

 

Edit:  I see the nomenclature has been addressed.  Yes, shortening your swing will likely help, as it did for me.  I will warn you though that:  you will feel like your swing length is much shorter than it actually is (video helps), and at least in my case, your swing speed will go down a tad. (92 7-iron to 88-ish).  This may annoy you.  I anticipate my ball speed will increase as I make my strike more consistent with lower launch.  We'll see.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Jayjay_theweim_guy