Hard/Soft-Stepping

[woods991]

[quote name='jewofgolf' timestamp='1330317381' post='4385311']
The 4 iron shaft was a 1 iron shaft (3x soft step), so now your 3 iron shaft will be MUCH stiffer than the shaft that was in there before.
[/quote]


is there any way I can get this to work at all?

[harmonica]

[quote name='StillMyShot' timestamp='1328992886' post='4261975']
After I went through a fiting for Ping I20 irons, I ordered all shafts 1/2 inch longer than standard. Does that mean that my clubs are really being soft stepped without the excess length being trimmed off? Will Ping just put a 5 iron shaft in my six iron, etc.?
If I wanted my shafts to be 1/2 inch longer than standard but also wanted them hard stepped to make the shaft flex slightly firmer, could that be done? How?


[/quote]

Ever get an answer to this? Wonder if Ping could help you with this?

[Hifade]

Don't think it was mentioned but anytime you soft-step you will slightly raise the shot trajectory vs. hard-stepping which will bring the ball flight down. Therefore, a shaft that's hard-stepped 1x (S300) may be close to flex to a stiffer shaft soft-stepped 2x (X100), but the trajectories will differ greatly.

[baloo]

Question. As mentioned the DG shafts come in lengths between 37 and 41 inches. I just ordered new shafts. I play the 5 iron at 37.5 inches, so I bought 5 shafts at 37"(6i-pw). They are taper tipped so how much will it affect feel as I need to trim the 7i-pw shafts from the butt?

[toshman]

Sorry to bump this thread, current dilema is would like to install some c-tapers but would like to increase or maintain swingweight. Thinking about soft-stepping the higher weighted shafts, but being short statured, my question is how much is too much when butt trimming a taper iron shaft? Thanks

[nicko4]

[quote name='toshman' timestamp='1350111838' post='5788419']
Sorry to bump this thread, current dilema is would like to install some c-tapers but would like to increase or maintain swingweight. Thinking about soft-stepping the higher weighted shafts, but being short statured, my question is how much is too much when butt trimming a taper iron shaft? Thanks
[/quote]
Soft-stepping will make them marginally lighter, very marginally. Say for example you put the 5 iron shaft in your 6 iron (once soft stepped) the half an inch longer 5 iron shaft weights the same as the 6 iron shaft that was in it before (or would be put in normally) therefore when you take the extra 1/2 an inch off of the 5 iron shaft you are taking maybe 2 grams out of the club in terms of shaft weight. Like i said initially, this weight change would likely not be noticeable, it's the flex change that may be noticed. I don't quite see how you can increase swing weight, but it should be maintained (assuming you make them the same length as before, and the shafts that were in before were standard DGs or PXs) I don't think there is such a thing as taking too much off of the butt of a tapered iron shaft. Unless your playing the clubs in excess of something like 2 inches shorter than standard.

If you are playing them a bit shorter, generally they will play a little stiffer, so soft stepping once is a good idea. What length do you plan to play them at? & what swing weight are you trying to achieve? You may not need to soft step them, rather just add tip weights on installation. This will maintain swing weight and therefore flex (soft step not required to account for the shorter clubs in terms of flex)

Hope this helps...

[toshman]

[quote name='nicko4' timestamp='1350127061' post='5788541']
[quote name='toshman' timestamp='1350111838' post='5788419']
Sorry to bump this thread, current dilema is would like to install some c-tapers but would like to increase or maintain swingweight. Thinking about soft-stepping the higher weighted shafts, but being short statured, my question is how much is too much when butt trimming a taper iron shaft? Thanks
[/quote]
Soft-stepping will make them marginally lighter, very marginally. Say for example you put the 5 iron shaft in your 6 iron (once soft stepped) the half an inch longer 5 iron shaft weights the same as the 6 iron shaft that was in it before (or would be put in normally) therefore when you take the extra 1/2 an inch off of the 5 iron shaft you are taking maybe 2 grams out of the club in terms of shaft weight. Like i said initially, this weight change would likely not be noticeable, it's the flex change that may be noticed. I don't quite see how you can increase swing weight, but it should be maintained (assuming you make them the same length as before, and the shafts that were in before were standard DGs or PXs) I don't think there is such a thing as taking too much off of the butt of a tapered iron shaft. Unless your playing the clubs in excess of something like 2 inches shorter than standard.

If you are playing them a bit shorter, generally they will play a little stiffer, so soft stepping once is a good idea. What length do you plan to play them at? & what swing weight are you trying to achieve? You may not need to soft step them, rather just add tip weights on installation. This will maintain swing weight and therefore flex (soft step not required to account for the shorter clubs in terms of flex)

Hope this helps...
[/quote]


I currently play mp-33 with s-400 dg's, 0.5 inches short of standard, at d-2

I recently purchased some standard length mp-63 shafted with project x 5.0 and they are d-1. Project X weighes 115 g raw I believe. I would like to reshaft with c-tapers, maintain swingweight (or decrease as little as possible). If I went with the R+, which is the flex I would aim for, but being they weigh 115 g, raw and I would butt trim an extra half inch, which I read to be about 3 swingweight points. By going up to the c-taper S, the 120 raw weight would give me an extra 5 grams to work with. The plan is to soft step the c-taper twice, but I believe would have to cut off an additional 1.5 inches to get it to play 0.5 short of standard. Hence the question about how much is too much when it comes to butt tirmming.

I believe other factors I need to consider, but haven't quite figured out is, the balance point of the c-taper, and perhaps and/or it may be more prudent to add tip weights to the shaft.

Thanks for the reply nicko.

[nicko4]

Sorry I didn't realise you were tossing up between R+ at 115 and S at 120, I thought you were sticking with the same flex regardless and just wanted to soft-step them, but this makes sense. Yes the swing weight will increase by a little bit if you do it this way, but only 1/2 a point (or maybe slightly more). The balance point also has a fair bit to do with it, but I can't see that there would be a difference between project X and c-tapers. So by my calculations you are looking at a swingweight of about c-9, but this depends on any balance point discrepancies.

Why no love for the S400's? Are they too stiff? At -.5 inches I could imagine that they might be (without seeing your swing), I find that they play stiff even at an inch over standard IMO

If the S400s are the right flex, you might not need to soft step the c-taper S, but I find that it's always a good idea to go slightly on the 'too flexible' side, as the 'too stiff' side of ideal doesn't often work out - so soft stepping them is probably a good idea!

Edit: I don't think you'll be butt trimming them too much if you're only soft-stepping them once, you may need to add an extra wrap of tape (possibly more under right hand depending on the step pattern at the butt end), but i don't think the shafts will be compromised or anything like that. Also, if you're adding tip weights, say 5g per head, you won't need to soft-step as the added weight is effectively soft-stepping them (same shaft on heavier head = more flexible)

[darrickpe]

I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?

[dcr147]

[quote name='TimV' timestamp='1203206732' post='920067']
You have a shaft tip trimed for a 4 iron and you put it in a 3 iron = Hard Stepping.
You have a shaft tip trimed for a 4 iron and you put it in a 5 iron = Soft Stepping.

Hope that helps.

Fairways & Greens,
Tim
[/quote]Well said and easily explained.

[knock it close]

[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390925194' post='8550581']
I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?
[/quote] I think it's one yard in apex for every 1 point change in cpm, since soft stepping drops cpm by 3 cpm your apex will increase by 3 yards. (pretty sure I remember reading this on here someone can confirm if this is true or not).

edit: just looked back in an old thread and its feet not yards therefore softstepping would raise apex by 1 yard, thought my first post sounded like too much change in ball flight in my head.

[darrickpe]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390931490' post='8551363']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390925194' post='8550581']
I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?
[/quote] I think it's one yard in apex for every 1 point change in cpm, since soft stepping drops cpm by 3 cpm your apex will increase by 3 yards. (pretty sure I remember reading this on here someone can confirm if this is true or not).

edit: just looked back in an old thread and its feet not yards therefore softstepping would raise apex by 1 yard, thought my first post sounded like too much change in ball flight in my head.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input, do you think the spin rate will increase as well? This is my first experiment outside DG, so my concern would be holding the green with that reduced spin rate????

THanks

[knock it close]

[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390938340' post='8552231']
[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390931490' post='8551363']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390925194' post='8550581']
I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?
[/quote] I think it's one yard in apex for every 1 point change in cpm, since soft stepping drops cpm by 3 cpm your apex will increase by 3 yards. (pretty sure I remember reading this on here someone can confirm if this is true or not).

edit: just looked back in an old thread and its feet not yards therefore softstepping would raise apex by 1 yard, thought my first post sounded like too much change in ball flight in my head.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input, do you think the spin rate will increase as well? This is my first experiment outside DG, so my concern would be holding the green with that reduced spin rate????

THanks
[/quote] I expect that both spin and launch will increase slightly in order to reach the higher apex height, by how much I do not know. Your launch is slightly higher than PGA average with spin slightly lower so you would only need a slight increase in spin to reach the desired angle of decent. With the straight in numbers I assume that your angle of decent is playable.

[darrickpe]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390941997' post='8552683']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390938340' post='8552231']
[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390931490' post='8551363']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390925194' post='8550581']
I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?
[/quote] I think it's one yard in apex for every 1 point change in cpm, since soft stepping drops cpm by 3 cpm your apex will increase by 3 yards. (pretty sure I remember reading this on here someone can confirm if this is true or not).

edit: just looked back in an old thread and its feet not yards therefore softstepping would raise apex by 1 yard, thought my first post sounded like too much change in ball flight in my head.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input, do you think the spin rate will increase as well? This is my first experiment outside DG, so my concern would be holding the green with that reduced spin rate????

THanks
[/quote] I expect that both spin and launch will increase slightly in order to reach the higher apex height, by how much I do not know. Your launch is slightly higher than PGA average with spin slightly lower so you would only need a slight increase in spin to reach the desired angle of decent. With the straight in numbers I assume that your angle of decent is playable.
[/quote]

angle of decent 49....

[knock it close]

[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390947304' post='8553371']
[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390941997' post='8552683']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390938340' post='8552231']
[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1390931490' post='8551363']
[quote name='darrickpe' timestamp='1390925194' post='8550581']
I'm thinking of SS +1 or +2 C-taper X only because I like the 130g shaft weight and the feel of the C Taper. My question is how much will the SS affect the traj and spin? My base test scenario 6i ctaper straight in launches around 18 with spin around 5400?
[/quote] I think it's one yard in apex for every 1 point change in cpm, since soft stepping drops cpm by 3 cpm your apex will increase by 3 yards. (pretty sure I remember reading this on here someone can confirm if this is true or not).

edit: just looked back in an old thread and its feet not yards therefore softstepping would raise apex by 1 yard, thought my first post sounded like too much change in ball flight in my head.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input, do you think the spin rate will increase as well? This is my first experiment outside DG, so my concern would be holding the green with that reduced spin rate????

THanks
[/quote] I expect that both spin and launch will increase slightly in order to reach the higher apex height, by how much I do not know. Your launch is slightly higher than PGA average with spin slightly lower so you would only need a slight increase in spin to reach the desired angle of decent. With the straight in numbers I assume that your angle of decent is playable.
[/quote]

angle of decent 49....
[/quote] Yup very playable as PGA average is 50*

[foechsle]

I am going to X100's from Projext X 7.0's and I was wondering if Hardstepping the x100's would get similar spin numbers to the standard 7.0's. Im hoping for a lower ball flight with similar spin to the PX

[drbonesvt]

[quote name='foechsle' timestamp='1402350461' post='9462211']
I am going to X100's from Projext X 7.0's and I was wondering if Hardstepping the x100's would get similar spin numbers to the standard 7.0's. Im hoping for a lower ball flight with similar spin to the PX
[/quote]

How did this chg work out?

[Joe9977]

Instead of hard/soft stepping, have confidence in a fitting and get very close with a shaft. You're swing will evolve and "calibrate" over time. You'll be comfortable, especially if you were close to begin with. I personally try one or two shafts each summer but go right back to DG S300, they just fit me.

[dunn]

Have tried this multiple times and did not like it....much prefer shafts straight in, doesn't really alter the flex just alters the tip imo....makes for very strange profile....can't really describe it but I just know it wasn't successful for me....have SS dgs300, kbs and px all with similar results....just put em straight in now.....maybe try it on one club first to see if you like it...kbs makes half flexes so isn't a need for it really

[Judge Smails]

^^^ I disagree with the above. I love x100 soft-stepped and for my game it's perfect. I don't want to "calibrate" my swing based on the shaft I have in my irons, as said above, I want the shaft that works best with my swing.

[malelee21]

I apologize for bumping this old thread.

 

Can I use 4i shaft on PW head if I trim both tip and end of shaft to correct length?

[Howard_Jones]

I apologize for bumping this old thread.

 

Can I use 4i shaft on PW head if I trim both tip and end of shaft to correct length?

 

We have 2 sorts of shafts out there, Taper tip shafts and Parallel tip shafts.

Tapers are made for each iron, so a #4 iron shaft is NOT meant to be tip trimmed, only hard or soft stepped stronger or softer.

Parallels starts from the same blank, where we progressively tip trim for each iron shorter.

 

If your heads and the actual shaft is parallel, you can just tip trim the difference (all shortening tip side if that #4 shaft came from the same heads).

 

If you dont know what tip type used for your heads, look them up here:

http://www.golfworks.com/oem-shaft-replacement-guide/a/376/

 

.370 = Parallel, go ahead, just tip trim that #4 iron shaft to become a PW

.365 = Taper , NO GO, you cant tip trim that shaft to become a PW shaft.

[malelee21]

Thank you. Mine is taper shaft (AP2). Should I find replacement GW shaft to install in a PW head? I am asking since I am in the process of installing 5-PW into 4-9 AP2 heads (hard stepping).

[Howard_Jones]

There is not many shafts made for GW, but some for PW, so there is hardly any options to hard step a PW Taper, but it can be done by using a PW shaft and tip trim it 3/8 (yes thats done on tapers, but 3/8 is about the max). Then you made that GW shaft who often dont exist for use as "Hard stepped PW" if thats your target. (full flex progression up to PW)

[gotyacovered]

Soft stepping delima... I have a 13 year old and he wants my hand me down mizzy's. (Mp-59's). He is currently gaming Adams CB's that have some kind of jr. Shaft in them that are 1/2' short of standard.

 

I have some rifle 4.5's 3-PW that are pulls and standard length. I was thinking about soft stepping them (9i rifle shaft into 8i head) and wanted to get some guru opinions on it... Thoughts???

[Howard_Jones]

Soft stepping delima... I have a 13 year old and he wants my hand me down mizzy's. (Mp-59's). He is currently gaming Adams CB's that have some kind of jr. Shaft in them that are 1/2' short of standard.

 

I have some rifle 4.5's 3-PW that are pulls and standard length. I was thinking about soft stepping them (9i rifle shaft into 8i head) and wanted to get some guru opinions on it... Thoughts???

 

Short shaft into a longer head = hard stepping, we go stronger, so Rifle 4.5 becomes 4.9

Soft step is moving shafts the other way, #3 shaft to #4 head, who makes 4.5 to play to 4.1 after we cut off the 0.5 we gained when shaft was moved.

 

If your target was to save shaft cutting and just move shafts to get that 0.5 shorter, it can be done, but you go stronger and are hard stepping.

[Stuart_G]

Soft stepping delima... I have a 13 year old and he wants my hand me down mizzy's. (Mp-59's). He is currently gaming Adams CB's that have some kind of jr. Shaft in them that are 1/2' short of standard.

 

I have some rifle 4.5's 3-PW that are pulls and standard length. I was thinking about soft stepping them (9i rifle shaft into 8i head) and wanted to get some guru opinions on it... Thoughts???

 

In addition to Howard's excellent advice, the other thing that can be important is making sure the shaft weight and total weight of the club is a good fit for the player. It's generally much more important to get the weight right than it is the flex. Not familiar with the weight of those rifles - or the strength and capability of your son, but if the shaft weight of those rifles are heavier than the shafts he is currently using (which I suspect is the case if they are 'jr' shafts), that has the potential to be a big problem, particularly with junior players.

[gotyacovered]

Thanks guys... I will install as is and butt cut. The goal was to end up with lite/shorter shafts. Had my terminology backwards.

 

Actually works out much better this was bc I have a 3i shaft that wasn't going to be used.

[Stuart_G]

Just realize the weight reduction is not really all that much. They will still likely be quite a bit heavier than any junior shaft. I'd get the details on the relative weight first.

 

Has he tried to hit those clubs as they are now - just choked up the 1/2"? If not, have him give it a try. If he can handle that then it might be worth it, otherwise probably not. You'll have keep an eye on his swing and the results. If he wants them bad enough, it can be easy to for him to convince himself that they are not really too heavy.

[Howard_Jones]

Rifle 4.5 is 2.93 grams pr. inch so compared to another Descending weight shaft at 41" its 120 grams and kind of heavy.

Comparable weight to a Constant weight #6 iron shaft as uncut is 113 grams, so Stuart is right, we go a bit heavy.....depending on the player.