True aim ball marker

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

 

I have a card size distance in my pocket that I am going to put in my yardage book cover. It will have Carry distance for full, 3/4 and half shots just for quick reference. I have slowly been working on getting those dialed in with trackman data. I have new irons and fairway woods showing up in the next week or two so I plan to get it really dialed in then.

 

In the past I have had a green book that showed % of slope. I will probably start trying to do that but haven't come up with a good format that was "accurate"

 

A club distance chart crossed my mind. But I just don't know if I'd use it. I'm pretty in-tune with my yardages. Although I did switch irons this year. So maybe would be worth doing. 

What'd you use for green slopes? You just roll your own, or did you purchase from somewhere? This is what I'm kind of getting at with the Golflogix app. I know it's very popular. And believe it's accurate. Figure I'll do the trial, print off a couple of the course I regularly play, and see if it's worth the yearly membership (think it's around $50).

[sheppick.dan]

1 hour ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Interesting. Are you printing straight from powerpoint? There's a default selection (Scale to fit paper) you need to change in order to edit the scale. When that box is checked, the option to edit the scale will be greyed out.

Got it to work. Thank you!

[sheppick.dan]

31 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

A club distance chart crossed my mind. But I just don't know if I'd use it. I'm pretty in-tune with my yardages. Although I did switch irons this year. So maybe would be worth doing. 

What'd you use for green slopes? You just roll your own, or did you purchase from somewhere? This is what I'm kind of getting at with the Golflogix app. I know it's very popular. And believe it's accurate. Figure I'll do the trial, print off a couple of the course I regularly play, and see if it's worth the yearly membership (think it's around $50).

I used the GHIN app. It was not accurate at all. I would like to find one that is actually accurate because then it would be worth it!

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

I used the GHIN app. It was not accurate at all. I would like to find one that is actually accurate because then it would be worth it!

 

The Golflogix one seems pretty slick. And appears to be the industry leader in that space. Might have to start a separate thread to see what any end users think of it.

[sheppick.dan]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:07 AM, SE Gamer said:

Alright, here are the revised chart and diagrams. Enhancements include...
 

• All value are in reference to the edge of the hole
  • Note that values in bold and italics are inside the hole; all others are outside the hole
• "Ball" values have been added, from half a ball to 3 balls, in half a ball increments
  • Some didn't match up exactly to a half ball increment, so those are accompanied by a greater than or less than symbol (e.g. 1.25" values would be slightly less than 1.5 balls inside/outside the hole)
• Any value over a foot no longer has a corresponding inch value
• Increments have been added/adjusted to reflect the following
  • 1-10 Feet: One foot increments
  • 10-20 Feet: Two feet increments
  • 20-40 Feet: Five foot increments
• In addition to the above the diagrams have been updated so that the ball colors reflect the hash mark pattern on the marker

Appreciate the feedback to get it to this point. And welcome any additional feedback to further improve the companion resources. And of course, feel free to post any questions.

 

 

Thinking about this a little more.... Are these numbers based on a certain green speed? How hard would it be to create this chart for the other green speeds? Would it be possible to create the chart based on deg uphill and downhill? or is there a rough 1% increase or decrease? 

 

I was just talking to my buddy about this and he asked me to make him a chart too. He is more analytical than I am and he got my head spinning. Even if you just share the excel graph that you created I am more than happy to creat the others for everyone if someone knows the math for the uphill and downhill slopes and the green speeds.

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, sheppick.dan said:

Thinking about this a little more.... Are these numbers based on a certain green speed? How hard would it be to create this chart for the other green speeds? Would it be possible to create the chart based on deg uphill and downhill? or is there a rough 1% increase or decrease? 

 

I was just talking to my buddy about this and he asked me to make him a chart too. He is more analytical than I am and he got my head spinning. Even if you just share the excel graph that you created I am more than happy to creat the others for everyone if someone knows the math for the uphill and downhill slopes and the green speeds.

 

So, the numbers would not be based on any single green speed. Since the angle of each line is fixed, the actual green speed has zero impact on POA for each hash.

Now, this isn't to say green speed doesn't matter. Or uphill vs. downhill. However it's something each user is going to have to kind of figure out. As there's also considerations with style of play (e.g. do you die the ball at the hole, or like to run it a foot or two past). The upside of the values being "static" is that if you can determine how much break you want to play, you can easily index the ball's alignment accordingly. 

And what I'd hope is that folks will share tips/tricks and lessons learned along the way. Essentially crowdsourcing how to get the most out of this marker.

[sheppick.dan]

55 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

So, the numbers would not be based on any single green speed. Since the angle of each line is fixed, the actual green speed has zero impact on POA for each hash.

Now, this isn't to say green speed doesn't matter. Or uphill vs. downhill. However it's something each user is going to have to kind of figure out. As there's also considerations with style of play (e.g. do you die the ball at the hole, or like to run it a foot or two past). The upside of the values being "static" is that if you can determine how much break you want to play, you can easily index the ball's alignment accordingly. 

And what I'd hope is that folks will share tips/tricks and lessons learned along the way. Essentially crowdsourcing how to get the most out of this marker.

Awesome thanks!

 

Your green on the sheet, I just want to confirm those are play the ball inside the hole if I am reading it correctly right?

[SE Gamer]

11 minutes ago, sheppick.dan said:

Awesome thanks!

 

Your green on the sheet, I just want to confirm those are play the ball inside the hole if I am reading it correctly right?

You're welcome!

 

And you're correct. The green bolded italic values on the full sheet are inside the hole. 

[sheppick.dan]

Here is my chart that I created. It is set up with margins so it should fit in a regular yardage book

Green Slope Calculations.docx

[sheppick.dan]

Thanks for my markers @SE Gamer!
 

 

[Z1ggy16]

I edited the OP to include the two major things to come out of this - the marker proto and the "cheat sheet" with POA's.

 

I haven't printed mine yet... been very very busy with work and also working on trying to get my swing changed a little bit before the season really gets under way.

 

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Z1ggy16 said:

I edited the OP to include the two major things to come out of this - the marker proto and the "cheat sheet" with POA's.

 

I haven't printed mine yet... been very very busy with work and also working on trying to get my swing changed a little bit before the season really gets under way.

 

 

Thanks for doing that. Should make it easier for new folks to figure out what's going on in this thread. Would imagine people wonder why a thread about a ball marker has so much activity.

[Badshaft]

First want to thank @SE Gamer and @Z1ggy16 for getting this together. Much appreciated!

Received mine a week ago shipped from the supplier in nice packaging and in great condition! A1 service!

 

The unboxing: Having not seen anything like it and my usual ball mark is penny/nickel size - This, at first looked big to my eye, but I liked the heft/feel of it.  I had to go outside in the garage right away and put a ball behind it - Not to bad no more to the eye than those poker chips or large college coin ball markers my partners use. I liked the definition of the lines on the marker which made it easier to get it on your mark.

 

The Course - Well Sunday was not the best day for golf - It rained on and off all afternoon- So it made for uncomfortable round with mixed results 

 

Positives -

Very easy to get lined up on your predicted path - Even in the rain

The coloring of the lines and the marker are good distinct reference point - Very professional!  

I actually liked the fact that I could find it easily in my pocket - Having a small marker sometimes it gets lost with the divot repair tool or you have to fish around and dig it out. 

I did make 1 birdie on a slippery side and down hill putt from 10 ft. - funny part about it is the green had a puddle of water on the front and my approach skipped across the water to the back half of the green and I drained it

 

No real negatives on the marker- I like it and need more time to get in a rhythm with it.  I haven't used any of the material you guys have worked up for it yet.

 

- I do want to keep it simple. Maybe a modified AimPoint? I have been working with it a bit lately along with a greens book that has slope percentages.

 

Work in progress...Thanks

 

 

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Badshaft said:

First want to thank @SE Gamer and @Z1ggy16 for getting this together. Much appreciated!

Received mine a week ago shipped from the supplier in nice packaging and in great condition! A1 service!

 

The unboxing: Having not seen anything like it and my usual ball mark is penny/nickel size - This, at first looked big to my eye, but I liked the heft/feel of it.  I had to go outside in the garage right away and put a ball behind it - Not to bad no more to the eye than those poker chips or large college coin ball markers my partners use. I liked the definition of the lines on the marker which made it easier to get it on your mark.

 

The Course - Well Sunday was not the best day for golf - It rained on and off all afternoon- So it made for uncomfortable round with mixed results 

 

Positives -

Very easy to get lined up on your predicted path - Even in the rain

The coloring of the lines and the marker are good distinct reference point - Very professional!  

I actually liked the fact that I could find it easily in my pocket - Having a small marker sometimes it gets lost with the divot repair tool or you have to fish around and dig it out. 

I did make 1 birdie on a slippery side and down hill putt from 10 ft. - funny part about it is the green had a puddle of water on the front and my approach skipped across the water to the back half of the green and I drained it

 

No real negatives on the marker- I like it and need more time to get in a rhythm with it.  I haven't used any of the material you guys have worked up for it yet.

 

- I do want to keep it simple. Maybe a modified AimPoint? I have been working with it a bit lately along with a greens book that has slope percentages.

 

Work in progress...Thanks

 

 

 

You're welcome, @Badshaft. And I appreciate the kind words! 

Glad to hear you're enjoying it as well. So, since you didn't use the charts and/or aimpoint, did you just estimate based on generic perceived breaks? Meaning something like subtle, normal, moderate, severe. 

Unfortunately it's still cold here. So I'm having to live and learn vicariously through those in warmer climates (or who are braver than I when it comes to the cold). 

[Peddy]

@SE Gamer please check your PM. 

[SE Gamer]

4 hours ago, Peddy said:

@SE Gamer please check your PM. 

 

Checked and replied. Thanks!

[Badshaft]

23 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

You're welcome, @Badshaft. And I appreciate the kind words! 

Glad to hear you're enjoying it as well. So, since you didn't use the charts and/or aimpoint, did you just estimate based on generic perceived breaks? Meaning something like subtle, normal, moderate, severe. 

Unfortunately it's still cold here. So I'm having to live and learn vicariously through those in warmer climates (or who are braver than I when it comes to the cold). 

Yea pretty much- Using judgement and modified Aimpoint method - Less than a finger it was white line and full finger Red or Blue line depending on the break.

 

- But I was putting so badly most of that day leaving things quite short with the heavy rainy weather- No matter how well they are lined up - if hit short, they miss 100% of the time...😆

 

I felt good about using it...Can't wait to see if I can get some rhythm with it on a good day. Like anything it takes some time to figure things out.

[SE Gamer]

22 hours ago, Badshaft said:

Yea pretty much- Using judgement and modified Aimpoint method - Less than a finger it was white line and full finger Red or Blue line depending on the break.

 

- But I was putting so badly most of that day leaving things quite short with the heavy rainy weather- No matter how well they are lined up - if hit short, they miss 100% of the time...😆

 

I felt good about using it...Can't wait to see if I can get some rhythm with it on a good day. Like anything it takes some time to figure things out.

 

I think this is the ideal way in terms of speed if you can make it work. Think for aimpoint guys it'll be easier. But would also think one could naturally develop a feel for it over time. As in, "this is a 1st hash putt, 2nd hash putt, etc."

 

Just jealous of the guys who've been able to get on the course already. Anxious to get out there!

[OspreyCI]

22 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

I think this is the ideal way in terms of speed if you can make it work. Think for aimpoint guys it'll be easier. But would also think one could naturally develop a feel for it over time. As in, "this is a 1st hash putt, 2nd hash putt, etc."

 

Just jealous of the guys who've been able to get on the course already. Anxious to get out there!

I just keep practicing more and more with Aimpont, the chart, and the marker and it gets faster and faster to use and putting gets better and better! 

[SE Gamer]

20 hours ago, OspreyCI said:

I just keep practicing more and more with Aimpont, the chart, and the marker and it gets faster and faster to use and putting gets better and better! 

 

That's awesome to hear! Can't remember, did you take a formal aimpoint class? 

[OspreyCI]

2 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

That's awesome to hear! Can't remember, did you take a formal aimpoint class? 

No formal training. Another round in the books and the chart and marker are unbelievable! Game changer for me. Just makes me a better green reader or line my putts up on a better line… my putting has changed. @SE Gamer IS THE MAN!!! 
 

Side note. Duh, but make sure the marker is lined up exactly at the hole before you start using the percent lines. 
 

Shot out to @labgolf too. My DF 2.1 Broomstick is so stable and puts the ball online which makes the AimPoint work like it’s supposed to. If you cannot make the ball go on the intended line, then all this other stuff will not help. 

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, OspreyCI said:

No formal training. Another round in the books and the chart and marker are unbelievable! Game changer for me. Just makes me a better green reader or line my putts up on a better line… my putting has changed. @SE Gamer IS THE MAN!!! 
 

Side note. Duh, but make sure the marker is lined up exactly at the hole before you start using the percent lines. 
 

Shot out to @labgolf too. My DF 2.1 Broomstick is so stable and puts the ball online which makes the AimPoint work like it’s supposed to. If you cannot make the ball go on the intended line, then all this other stuff will not help. 

 

Really appreciate the kind words, and so happy to hear how well it's working for you. Although it certainly sounds like you're doing your part. So the marker can't take all the credit 🙂

 

With winter still hanging on around here, I've been tempted to teach myself aimpoint. I've got a digital level with slope capability. Can also set up different slopes in my sim room and work through getting a feel for each. 

 

And it's good you mention the initial alignment. May be the most critical thing in the system. Having messed around at home, and with the assistance of lasers, it's clear there's some room for error with lining the center hash with the center of the cup. Any tips/tricks on this front? Such as, maybe trying to do the initial alignment with the pin in?

[OspreyCI]

41 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Really appreciate the kind words, and so happy to hear how well it's working for you. Although it certainly sounds like you're doing your part. So the marker can't take all the credit 🙂

 

With winter still hanging on around here, I've been tempted to teach myself aimpoint. I've got a digital level with slope capability. Can also set up different slopes in my sim room and work through getting a feel for each. 

 

And it's good you mention the initial alignment. May be the most critical thing in the system. Having messed around at home, and with the assistance of lasers, it's clear there's some room for error with lining the center hash with the center of the cup. Any tips/tricks on this front? Such as, maybe trying to do the initial alignment with the pin in?

Blessed to live in Phoenix area. Teed off in shorts this morning before sunrise. Lol. Able to use this stuff now. 

 

Yea, my green book helps with the read also. I find I use the chart exclusively and it helps me visualize a spot to putt to. Aimpont use of the fingers helps too. But to answer your question about lining up the marker. I can’t think of time Iined it up and the flag was already out. Not sure it helps, but I use a broomstick and I line up the marker straight and hold that long putter over it like you see Bryson do and double check how straight it is. Then I work on my read, check chart, find spot, and be ready to putt. You have to be efficient with your time. Helps when you hit it inside the others. Lol. I’ll thank my range time and iron work for that one. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by OspreyCI

[SE Gamer]

3 hours ago, OspreyCI said:

Blessed to live in Phoenix area. Teed off in shorts this morning before sunrise. Lol. Able to use this stuff now. 

 

Yea, my green book helps with the read also. I find I use the chart exclusively and it helps me visualize a spot to putt to. Aimpont use of the fingers helps too. But to answer your question about lining up the marker. I can’t think of time Iined it up and the flag was already out. Not sure it helps, but I use a broomstick and I line up the marker straight and hold that long putter over it like you see Bryson do and double check how straight it is. Then I work on my read, check chart, find spot, and be ready to putt. You have to be efficient with your time. Helps when you hit it inside the others. Lol. I’ll thank my range time and iron work for that one. 

 

Yeah, a little jealous of your warm weather and sunshine. Family and I actually might be heading out to AZ in the summer/fall. Been once before to Scottsdale area (Fountain Hills). Really love it out there. 

 

Appreciate you sharing some insight into how you're going about using the marker. Like the idea of hitting it closer than everyone else to buy some time. Seems easy enough, lol. Really happy to hear the chart is working so well. Took a little bit to gather the data and iron out the kinks. So it's nice to see that effort was worth it.

[SE Gamer]

Thought people might be interested in a little "look behind the curtain" in respect to 3d printing. Even though I've owned this printer for well over a year, it still amazes me how accurate and repeatable it can be. 

Just finished printing up a new batch. Which I'll print 6 at a time (12 pieces in total between the top and bottom halves). So a batch of 12 markers takes two separate prints. With each print taking a little over 6 hours. 

After installing the magnets and gluing this latest batch together, I used a set of calipers to see how consistent everything is from print to print. Came out to only one and a half thousandths difference between the two sets of 6. Just crazy how precise these consumer printers have become. 


 

[SE Gamer]

Hey @Z1ggy16 - can you update the PPT file in the OP? Looks like the one you have there is missing the table for the longer range putts.

Diagram 2ft Increments.pptx

[sociojeje]

Ready for the new season!

[OspreyCI]

1 minute ago, sociojeje said:

Ready for the new season!

Love that setup. I’ll just give you anything instead 5 feet! Can’t miss with that setup. 

[SE Gamer]

14 hours ago, OspreyCI said:

Love that setup. I’ll just give you anything instead 5 feet! Can’t miss with that setup. 

 

Agreed. @sociojeje is that a Vice ball? I've got a dozen Pro Plus I plan to test this year. And playing around at home, the alignment line on them really seems to pair well with the marker.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by SE Gamer

[bakere]

Used my marked from @SE Gamer and it was very nice on course. That in combo with the distance chart posted earlier in this thread helped me quantify the break I wanted to play. For instance, I had 8 footer that I guessed (I don't use aimpoint yet) to be about a cup worth of break. Used the chart and identified that I needed one full hash of break. Lined up my putt, hit putt, and viola it went in. Definitely a powerful tool for us who have aiming issues. Thanks!