Colorado WRX 2023

[Joelness]

20 hours ago, Hardrain said:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a cold weather jacket they golf in? Seems like so many options focus on lightweight and not actual warmth.  Obviously, I want something I can swing in, but I also want to be warm!!

 

For real warmth like winter golf I go with an under armour cold gear layer underneath. If I need more than that I go for the vest first since it doesn't interfere and basically after that it's really just a light wind/waterproof layer over the top and that will allow me to play in anything.

 

Typical coloradan..... Layers!

[Joelness]

@CDM man that RTJ trail looks awesome.

 

For that price also it sounds perfect. I really like that square par three. It's funny how unique it feels.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Joelness

[jda]

I played Senator from 7600 a few years back with some pretty strong wind.  It is not like a typical RTJ - worth the visit.  This comes to mind as the hardest course that I have ever played in a day.  It is 77.4/132 -I played 2 balls at 81 and was SOOOO happy.  The wind can come up over these super tall dunes and just take your ball a bit.  Rough was deep.  I had fun and loved the challenge.

[ASak10]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:01 AM, bobbyclampett!! said:

I kind of have a similar philosophy on the putter as the irons- let them teach you how to swing properly, rather than getting clubs that mask your flaws, although I realize that’s not for everyone. 

 

I get what you're saying with this, but doesn't this assume that there is one "proper" way to swing and that whatever club/shaft combo you happen to buy is a perfect fit for that theoretical perfect swing? I'd argue a better way to look at it is that there are multiple different ways to get to proper impact and it doesn't mean you're trying to mask your flaws, but instead you are finding gear that helps your unique swing get to those proper positions.  Just a random thought I had after reading that part, found it an interesting thing to think about. 

[ASak10]

RTJ trail is awesome.  I've done that trip a bunch of ttimes and played Oxmoor/Ross Bridge, Judge/Senator/Legislator, and Silverlake (I forget which course we played out there).  We also did a Famlinks trip one day and played 36 which was a blast (I don't disagree with your assessment though @CDM, but it is fun to spend a day and play 36 there).  We played 36 at Limestone Springs one year which I remember liking as well. 

 

All really fun and great courses, always have been in great shape when we have played. @Joelness it's definitely worth a trip down, the prices are insanely good compared to almost any other golf destination.  

 

@CDM had no idea Ross Bridge was closed for that long!  Glad they got it back in order.  It is funny how much of a "hidden gem" the RTJ Trail is that even locals don't realize people would want to travel there to play golf.  It really should be higher on people's lists for golf trips.  We have it on the short list for another trip....we really want to play Grand National and all the courses there, have not had a chance to play those yet.  

[ASak10]

Speaking of swing flaws and gear....(sorry, this turned into a much longer post than I intended!)

 

I currently play a TSi3 driver with a Tour AD XC shaft that I was fit for a few years ago.  I was in Arizona this past weekend for fall break with the family, and I played a few rounds with the kids down there.  I already had to lug their clubs down (course didn't have any kids rentals) so I didn't want to bring my clubs too.  I knew they had nice rental sets from my wife renting there a few years ago so decided to go that route.  

 

The bag I rented was awesome: Scotty putter, Vokey wedges, and T200 irons.  It also had the TSR2 driver (and 3w) with a Tensei Blue shaft on it.  Let me tell you....that thing was awesome.  I don't know if I missed a fairway.  The club certainly seemed to launch higher than what I'm used to, but I didn't have my usual misses like I do with the TSi3, and it seemed to go plenty far.

 

When I was fit for my driver we went back and forth between the TSi2 and 3, and went with the 3 because the 2 seemed to launch a little too high and spin a little too much.  The problem I have is that when the driver is good, it's really good.  But when it's bad, oh boy is it bad.  

 

I track my stats with Arccos and it confirms what I see on the course. My top two things that help me are driving distance and driving accuracy.  HOWEVER, my biggest thing to work on (biggest weakness) is driving penalties 🤣🤬 So basically my driver is either my best friend or my worst enemy.  

 

I guess my question is whether it's worth giving up some distance to get more forgiveness with higher launch/more spin that the TSR2 would likely give me.  If I went that route I'd go get fit again so it may not end up being the TSR (maybe the Ping G425) but something more forgiving.  Or do I suck it up and go the @bobbyclampett!! route and just learn to swing my driver better to get more consistency from it by not sucking as much on my bad swings?!?! 

 

I will say it took all of my willpower to not walk into the pro shop after my second round and ask how much it would cost to just buy the driver there and then 😆

[jda]

If you like the 2 and just want it to launch lower, swap the blue for a black or orange, maybe?  The 1K is no joke and improvement over the AV is worth the money if you want to stay in Titleist for a few generations.

 

A few strips of lead tape on the front of a TSi/r2 also really lowered the ball flight for me.  I like heavy clubs.  I guess that you could lower the end weight to compensate.

[ASak10]

20 minutes ago, jda said:

If you like the 2 and just want it to launch lower, swap the blue for a black or orange, maybe?  The 1K is no joke and improvement over the AV is worth the money if you want to stay in Titleist for a few generations.

 

A few strips of lead tape on the front of a TSi/r2 also really lowered the ball flight for me.  I like heavy clubs.  I guess that you could lower the end weight to compensate.

 

Interesting, thanks for the thoughts.  Looks like the 1K is actually same price as the AV through Titleist, could be worth trying out.  

 

As for the ball flight, I'm not necessarily bothered by the higher launch, wondering if maybe that helped keep it in play better over the lower flight I'm used to.  

 

Edit:  Unless you're talking about the Tensei Pro White 1K, I just saw that option after posting and that one is a $315 upcharge.

Edited October 18, 2023 by ASak10

[jda]

I have not seen any other color than black 1K in Titleist for no upcharge, but maybe they did it.  The black is a very high kick shaft with a firm tip - even moreso than the white, IMO.  It is very stable with low launch and spin.  1K Black feels firm (more than white or blue) when it strikes the ball.  Feel and sound at impact mean nothing to me.

 

IMO, the white and blue just play like blueboard and whiteboard from the past if you are familiar.

 

I play the Orange 1K.  I would play the Black if not.  I paid up to get an Orange 1K and I like it.  I will use it for years and years.

 

I have Black 1k and Orange 1K both in X if you want to hit some balls with them.  I don't swing 120 mph anymore so glad that they made something in between S and TX.

[Joelness]

6 hours ago, ASak10 said:

Speaking of swing flaws and gear....(sorry, this turned into a much longer post than I intended!)

 

I currently play a TSi3 driver with a Tour AD XC shaft that I was fit for a few years ago.  I was in Arizona this past weekend for fall break with the family, and I played a few rounds with the kids down there.  I already had to lug their clubs down (course didn't have any kids rentals) so I didn't want to bring my clubs too.  I knew they had nice rental sets from my wife renting there a few years ago so decided to go that route.  

 

The bag I rented was awesome: Scotty putter, Vokey wedges, and T200 irons.  It also had the TSR2 driver (and 3w) with a Tensei Blue shaft on it.  Let me tell you....that thing was awesome.  I don't know if I missed a fairway.  The club certainly seemed to launch higher than what I'm used to, but I didn't have my usual misses like I do with the TSi3, and it seemed to go plenty far.

 

When I was fit for my driver we went back and forth between the TSi2 and 3, and went with the 3 because the 2 seemed to launch a little too high and spin a little too much.  The problem I have is that when the driver is good, it's really good.  But when it's bad, oh boy is it bad.  

 

I track my stats with Arccos and it confirms what I see on the course. My top two things that help me are driving distance and driving accuracy.  HOWEVER, my biggest thing to work on (biggest weakness) is driving penalties 🤣🤬 So basically my driver is either my best friend or my worst enemy.  

 

I guess my question is whether it's worth giving up some distance to get more forgiveness with higher launch/more spin that the TSR2 would likely give me.  If I went that route I'd go get fit again so it may not end up being the TSR (maybe the Ping G425) but something more forgiving.  Or do I suck it up and go the @bobbyclampett!! route and just learn to swing my driver better to get more consistency from it by not sucking as much on my bad swings?!?! 

 

I will say it took all of my willpower to not walk into the pro shop after my second round and ask how much it would cost to just buy the driver there and then 😆

 

I think for 99% of people the advantage of not losing strokes via driving is worth giving up distance for. IMO the key on the driving side is to get good enough that you're not losing strokes via the big miss penalties and after that basically drop getting better at driver right then and start focusing on your approach game. From there, just practice it enough to maintain where you are (i.e. not losing strokes via OB, penalty areas). 

 

One of the funniest things to me every time I step on the range are the numbers of people hitting driver vs. everything else. It should literally be flip-flopped. I and the other good players I know and play with often spend 70%+ of their time hitting wedges on the range.

 

If I had a range session I used to hit 50% wedges right away and then usually graduate to the long irons and really grind in the long irons because I have found over time that when I'm hitting my 5i/6i really good I'm generally hitting everything really good so I would spend an insane amount of time going back and forth hitting little fades and draws.

 

Well..... Last weekend I was chillin with Jackson Solem who played for DU and is currently chasing the dream with partial status on PGA Canada. What he told me about that strategy kinda made me feel stupid. He said: "How many 6 irons do you hit in a round? So why are you spending so much time hitting that club then. Guys like us hit driver and 9i-LW for ~30 of our 34 full swings every round. Doesn't it seem smarter to spend all your time hitting those clubs on the range instead?"

 

Sooooo yeah, I've been basically hitting a ton of LW-9i and mixing in drivers during my range sessions now.

[Joelness]

Just now, Joelness said:

 

I think for 99% of people the advantage of not losing strokes via driving is worth giving up distance for. IMO the key on the driving side is to get good enough that you're not losing strokes via the big miss penalties and after that basically drop getting better at driver right then and start focusing on your approach game. From there, just practice it enough to maintain where you are (i.e. not losing strokes via OB, penalty areas). 

 

One of the funniest things to me every time I step on the range are the numbers of people hitting driver vs. everything else. It should literally be flip-flopped. I and the other good players I know and play with often spend 70%+ of their time hitting wedges on the range.

 

If I had a range session I used to hit 50% wedges right away and then usually graduate to the long irons and really grind in the long irons because I have found over time that when I'm hitting my 5i/6i really good I'm generally hitting everything really good so I would spend an insane amount of time going back and forth hitting little fades and draws.

 

Well..... Last weekend I was chillin with Jackson Solem who played for DU and is currently chasing the dream with partial status on PGA Canada. What he told me about that strategy kinda made me feel stupid. He said: "How many 6 irons do you hit in a round? So why are you spending so much time hitting that club then. Guys like us hit driver and 9i-LW for ~30 of our 34 full swings every round. Doesn't it seem smarter to spend all your time hitting those clubs on the range instead?"

 

Sooooo yeah, I've been basically hitting a ton of LW-9i and mixing in drivers during my range sessions now.

 

Speaking of: My driver has been the big problem during this slump. It wasn't until this last weekend and a few long range sessions doing the above strategy that I'm finally hitting driver well and my scores have been back where they should be now.

[Joelness]

Question: Did you guys know that Trackman did a study on the best launch conditions in the wind and found that high launch and low spin is still best, even in the wind?  I had no idea so that's basically just my driver swing now, swing up on it 4+ and let it fly.

 

I think the only con to that is in big cross wind where it's going to move the ball too much if you launch it like that.

[bardezart]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

Question: Did you guys know that Trackman did a study on the best launch conditions in the wind and found that high launch and low spin is still best, even in the wind?  I had no idea so that's basically just my driver swing now, swing up on it 4+ and let it fly.

 

I think the only con to that is in big cross wind where it's going to move the ball too much if you launch it like that.

 

Good thing I've been hitting moon balls for years now 😆

[jda]

If anybody has been around long enough, J's Professional Weapon showed the world that low-spin, high flight shots were ideal in all situations... however with nearly every non-pro, height means spin too.  Hitting up on the ball while de lofting the club is really hard, as it turns out.  Low launch, low spin works too - lots of folks can do this.  Low spin was preached to us in HS and college and the only way that we could tell is if you got that nice high first bounce and lots of roll... and that was with balata balls that just loved to spin off of the tee.

 

I agree with the sentiment that losing some distance is probably a good idea to hit the driver more consistently, maybe up to 2 clubs... hitting a 7 instead of a 9 is OK  I have been playing TSi4 for a few years.  My time with it might be coming to an end.  I like the smaller head and I wanted the feedback and punishment as I learned to get my dynamic loft right while swinging up figured out.  I am going to move to TSr2 and skip the 3.  The difference between the 2 and 3 is like 3-4 yards, but the TSi/r2 is like literally you can hit the ball anywhere on the face and get good results.  With such a forgiving face, I can just swing 1 mph harder and get that distance back if I need to.  I play a HEAVY driver in the 360-370g range and I can still smash 1.5 with balls on a TSr2 a half inch from any side.

[CDM]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:23 AM, Joelness said:

@CDM man that RTJ trail looks awesome.

 

For that price also it sounds perfect. I really like that square par three. It's funny how unique it feels.

 

I have to say it was the coolest hole we have played or messed around on in a long time.  Made for some fun and side bets since there was no one really around from the mild rain that came in.  

 

I read your HDCP post, made me laugh as I get on the site today and WRX had this on the front page.

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/725618/the-wedge-guy-is-your-handicap-a-real-reflection-of-your-ability/?utm_source=Front&utm_medium=Featured_Center_Top&utm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=main

[CDM]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:12 AM, ASak10 said:

RTJ trail is awesome.  I've done that trip a bunch of ttimes and played Oxmoor/Ross Bridge, Judge/Senator/Legislator, and Silverlake (I forget which course we played out there).  We also did a Famlinks trip one day and played 36 which was a blast (I don't disagree with your assessment though @CDM, but it is fun to spend a day and play 36 there).  We played 36 at Limestone Springs one year which I remember liking as well. 

 

All really fun and great courses, always have been in great shape when we have played. @Joelness it's definitely worth a trip down, the prices are insanely good compared to almost any other golf destination.  

 

@CDM had no idea Ross Bridge was closed for that long!  Glad they got it back in order.  It is funny how much of a "hidden gem" the RTJ Trail is that even locals don't realize people would want to travel there to play golf.  It really should be higher on people's lists for golf trips.  We have it on the short list for another trip....we really want to play Grand National and all the courses there, have not had a chance to play those yet.  

 

Given Ross just re-opened the "new" greens were rock hard...!   If you can spin the ball they would hold but half the time you could not even find a diviot to fix they were that hard. If you played a chip/run type shot, pretty near impossible to hold it.  1 player said it was his favorite of the 5 we played.   I and the other it was a coin toss with the Judge.

 

We did the senator course as noted for a different vibe.   @Dancin may not have liked it as it was a "man" made dunes course and it was obvious but was still in the top 3 of the 5 we played by all of us.

 

Hole 17 at 440 yards as a Par 5 was the sooo cool...!  We saw it on the score card and thought really 440, maybe we should back when we get to that hole. NOPE.... the design, water and greeen being 30 yards or more up hill in the last 180 yards made it a tough, fair but FUN hole...!    

 

As to golf trip here...?  If you have not been here to play them, yes for sure. Do I think it is a repeat type thing?  Ie" Bandon, Pinehurst type places,  I dont personally.  Over a number of beverages we all agreed if you checked off a couple of other places we would not put it on a "must" come back again. 

 

Everyone we spoke to said Grand National in Auburn is a must play and might be the best 2 courses in the rota. So that had us wondering about coming back in the future some time.

 

*We came here for exactly what you said...COST.  Value wise it is a great deal as far as golf trips go.  He got back into golf last year and wanted to go somewhere to play different coures.  RTJ sure fits that and on a budget. 

 

We all agreed as cool as the RTJ trail concpet is if you do 36 a day at one place, then drive a few hours to the next destination, check in, eat, etc it is a bit tough.  Now doing 18 day no problem but the value really comes in by doing 36 holes like a Pinehurst or Bandon.   

 

We just stayed in Birmingham and drove up to Capital Hill, played 18, lunch, played 36 and drove back.  Solid 11+ hour day... and we are not "spring chickens" and we felt it the next morning  🤣

 

 

[bardezart]

4 hours ago, jda said:

If anybody has been around long enough, J's Professional Weapon showed the world that low-spin, high flight shots were ideal in all situations... however with nearly every non-pro, height means spin too.  Hitting up on the ball while de lofting the club is really hard, as it turns out.  Low launch, low spin works too - lots of folks can do this.  Low spin was preached to us in HS and college and the only way that we could tell is if you got that nice high first bounce and lots of roll... and that was with balata balls that just loved to spin off of the tee.

 

I agree with the sentiment that losing some distance is probably a good idea to hit the driver more consistently, maybe up to 2 clubs... hitting a 7 instead of a 9 is OK  I have been playing TSi4 for a few years.  My time with it might be coming to an end.  I like the smaller head and I wanted the feedback and punishment as I learned to get my dynamic loft right while swinging up figured out.  I am going to move to TSr2 and skip the 3.  The difference between the 2 and 3 is like 3-4 yards, but the TSi/r2 is like literally you can hit the ball anywhere on the face and get good results.  With such a forgiving face, I can just swing 1 mph harder and get that distance back if I need to.  I play a HEAVY driver in the 360-370g range and I can still smash 1.5 with balls on a TSr2 a half inch from any side.

 

I remember getting fit by some friends at Dlance forever ago and them being envious of my impact conditions – swinging up while delofting. Never realized it was that difficult to achieve. Whenever I play with new people (or someone who has never looked at my clubs) they are always surprised to see I have a 10.5º driver. When I played my best a few years back I had it set to 11.5º. l like to hit it high but flat, with around 2800-3000rpm spin.   

[Dancin]

4 hours ago, CDM said:

 

We did the senator course as noted for a different vibe.   @Dancin may not have liked it as it was a "man" made dunes course and it was obvious but was still in the top 3 of the 5 we played by all of us.

 

I liked all the RTJ courses when I played them 25+ years ago. You definitely don't want to try hitting more than two of the locations though. Way too much driving.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Dancin

[dubbelbogey]

On 10/18/2023 at 6:15 PM, Joelness said:

Well..... Last weekend I was chillin with Jackson Solem who played for DU and is currently chasing the dream with partial status on PGA Canada. What he told me about that strategy kinda made me feel stupid. He said: "How many 6 irons do you hit in a round? So why are you spending so much time hitting that club then. Guys like us hit driver and 9i-LW for ~30 of our 34 full swings every round. Doesn't it seem smarter to spend all your time hitting those clubs on the range instead?"

 

Sooooo yeah, I've been basically hitting a ton of LW-9i and mixing in drivers during my range sessions now.

 

This is a solid point, and my sessions are often very much like this, too. I also practice a ton of partial distance shots - love those shots, actually. (Never been a fan of "laying up to a full club".)

 

That said, I've been thinking about the types of shots that are most likely to cost me strokes in a round due to relatively bad misses and if I were to boil it down to one thing (though it really never is) - it'd be mid-to-long irons. I'm not long enough to never have to hit a mid-iron into a green (par-3s usually ensure this is the case). I usually have a few of those in a round. If I'm going to have a bad miss with a club - it's most likely to happen with these clubs. From a strokes gained/lost perspective, I tend to be weakest in the approach game - and more so the longer the club. So, I do practice them, and have been thinking about practicing them even a bit more. 

 

Just another perspective...

 

[Joelness]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, bardezart said:

 

Good thing I've been hitting moon balls for years now 😆

 

Have you dropped the spin down?

[Joelness]

2 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

 

This is a solid point, and my sessions are often very much like this, too. I also practice a ton of partial distance shots - love those shots, actually. (Never been a fan of "laying up to a full club".)

 

That said, I've been thinking about the types of shots that are most likely to cost me strokes in a round due to relatively bad misses and if I were to boil it down to one thing (though it really never is) - it'd be mid-to-long irons. I'm not long enough to never have to hit a mid-iron into a green (par-3s usually ensure this is the case). I usually have a few of those in a round. If I'm going to have a bad miss with a club - it's most likely to happen with these clubs. From a strokes gained/lost perspective, I tend to be weakest in the approach game - and more so the longer the club. So, I do practice them, and have been thinking about practicing them even a bit more. 

 

Just another perspective...

 

 

100% on this point. What we all should be prioritizing in our game is highly personal. It's all about where you are losing the most shots. Since we all have real jobs and not endless time like Jackson then it behooves us to be as efficient as possible with said time.

[Joelness]

12 hours ago, jda said:

If anybody has been around long enough, J's Professional Weapon showed the world that low-spin, high flight shots were ideal in all situations... however with nearly every non-pro, height means spin too.  Hitting up on the ball while de lofting the club is really hard, as it turns out.  Low launch, low spin works too - lots of folks can do this.  Low spin was preached to us in HS and college and the only way that we could tell is if you got that nice high first bounce and lots of roll... and that was with balata balls that just loved to spin off of the tee.

 

I agree with the sentiment that losing some distance is probably a good idea to hit the driver more consistently, maybe up to 2 clubs... hitting a 7 instead of a 9 is OK  I have been playing TSi4 for a few years.  My time with it might be coming to an end.  I like the smaller head and I wanted the feedback and punishment as I learned to get my dynamic loft right while swinging up figured out.  I am going to move to TSr2 and skip the 3.  The difference between the 2 and 3 is like 3-4 yards, but the TSi/r2 is like literally you can hit the ball anywhere on the face and get good results.  With such a forgiving face, I can just swing 1 mph harder and get that distance back if I need to.  I play a HEAVY driver in the 360-370g range and I can still smash 1.5 with balls on a TSr2 a half inch from any side.

 

One thing I've noticed in the last couple years and I'm curious if I'm alone in this but the newest drivers I have actually had trouble spinning enough.

 

Over winter 2021-2022 I returned my old Ping driver and they sent me the newest LST and I had trouble spinning it enough to keep in the air. It was so bad that I thought my GCQ was having issues, even though it was the only club doing that. I've literally never had a driver put 1200 rpm on a golf ball like that one did. It looked like the balls had top spin with 180+ ball speed and a 220 yard carry with 70 yards of roll, lol.

 

It gives me shivers as it reminds me of the dreaded "lefts."

[jda]

9 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

One thing I've noticed in the last couple years and I'm curious if I'm alone in this but the newest drivers I have actually had trouble spinning enough.

 

Don't all of the big companies have an offering like this?  The TSi/r4 could be one of those 1200-1800 clubs and while 1800 is fine, 1200 looks like the ball falls out of the sky with a premium ball.  You might be nearly alone in hitting knuckle balls with them, but they can definitely reduce the spin quite a lot.

 

IMO, these clubs could be great for most folks in the mid handicap range since they are already low spin and you don't have to hit up on the ball to achieve this.  Mine does not gear much on the top or the bottom, so you kinda have to hit it near the middle, but still is not too abusive on mishits.  The lower side spin could help a bunch of folks too.  I wonder if the 420-440 cc pear shaped heads scare off some since the clubs look smaller?  If anybody can find the middle, try one of these low spin heads with a degree or two more loft... get it high with lower spin.

 

Gotta admit... I am one of those people who might go and hit 250-300 balls in a session - all driver.  I do this for conditioning, though, and do not care about learning or working on anything.  No better way to get a bit sore and right back in the swing of things.  I will usually hit until something starts to hurt.

[bardezart]

10 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

One thing I've noticed in the last couple years and I'm curious if I'm alone in this but the newest drivers I have actually had trouble spinning enough.

 

Over winter 2021-2022 I returned my old Ping driver and they sent me the newest LST and I had trouble spinning it enough to keep in the air. It was so bad that I thought my GCQ was having issues, even though it was the only club doing that. I've literally never had a driver put 1200 rpm on a golf ball like that one did. It looked like the balls had top spin with 180+ ball speed and a 220 yard carry with 70 yards of roll, lol.

 

It gives me shivers as it reminds me of the dreaded "lefts."

 

Definitely not alone. I can't play most of the low spin offerings from companies. The last few years I have been in Callaway drivers and have played the subzero or LS heads which are usually spinnier than other companies' LS heads. And even then, I add weight to the rear or loft up to 10.5-11.5º 

Edited October 20, 2023 by bardezart

[bobbyclampett!!]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:11 AM, Joelness said:

 

I haven't been tracking all those details. I put in the stats rounds on GHIN when I can but that's it. I think you're definitely correct on proximity. My low rounds I'm hitting it close all day and that's by far the largest difference maker.

Those stats look about as I expected. Great scoring averages on the 3s, 4, and 5s. Like Mark Immelman says- 3s on 3s and 4s on 5s is the key to scoring! Basically a perfect split of missing fairways left and right. Putts right at 30. Low three putt percentage.

 

As suspected, you are hitting way more GIR than I do. This year I have probably been hitting less than 50% GIR, either due to poor approach play or hitting my tee shot in the trees and not being able to go for the green. Putting way too much stress on my short game and putting. 

 

I love what you told @ASak10, get your driver to where you are not getting penalty strokes, and then go to work on approach game, the great separator and determiner.

 

I have finally started hitting my driver better, and can now focus on approach play, and I think it's going to be better soon. Shot a very tidy 34 last night at Lander Golf Course. I think intending on a certain shot shape (rather than trying to hit laser straight approach shots) is really going to help me. It has helped my driver game a ton.

 

Anyway, inspring stuff, @Joelness, thanks for sharing!

[bardezart]

14 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

Have you dropped the spin down?

 

I live near the 2800-3000 mark with driver (preferred window). Iron spin is normal. I just hit the ball HIGH. It's a strong flight but people are generally surprised at how high it is. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:38 AM, ASak10 said:

Speaking of swing flaws and gear....(sorry, this turned into a much longer post than I intended!)

 

I currently play a TSi3 driver with a Tour AD XC shaft that I was fit for a few years ago.  I was in Arizona this past weekend for fall break with the family, and I played a few rounds with the kids down there.  I already had to lug their clubs down (course didn't have any kids rentals) so I didn't want to bring my clubs too.  I knew they had nice rental sets from my wife renting there a few years ago so decided to go that route.  

 

The bag I rented was awesome: Scotty putter, Vokey wedges, and T200 irons.  It also had the TSR2 driver (and 3w) with a Tensei Blue shaft on it.  Let me tell you....that thing was awesome.  I don't know if I missed a fairway.  The club certainly seemed to launch higher than what I'm used to, but I didn't have my usual misses like I do with the TSi3, and it seemed to go plenty far.

 

When I was fit for my driver we went back and forth between the TSi2 and 3, and went with the 3 because the 2 seemed to launch a little too high and spin a little too much.  The problem I have is that when the driver is good, it's really good.  But when it's bad, oh boy is it bad.  

 

I track my stats with Arccos and it confirms what I see on the course. My top two things that help me are driving distance and driving accuracy.  HOWEVER, my biggest thing to work on (biggest weakness) is driving penalties 🤣🤬 So basically my driver is either my best friend or my worst enemy.  

 

I guess my question is whether it's worth giving up some distance to get more forgiveness with higher launch/more spin that the TSR2 would likely give me.  If I went that route I'd go get fit again so it may not end up being the TSR (maybe the Ping G425) but something more forgiving.  Or do I suck it up and go the @bobbyclampett!! route and just learn to swing my driver better to get more consistency from it by not sucking as much on my bad swings?!?! 

 

I will say it took all of my willpower to not walk into the pro shop after my second round and ask how much it would cost to just buy the driver there and then 😆

Dude, @ASak10 I say get yourself a fairway finder. I have strong feelings about this, because I feel like I have been led astray by the golf industry and fitting industrial complex over the last 10 years. Because I have been a high speed player (more so 10 years ago than now), I thought I NEEDED a low spin driver. I have been hitting my driver all over the planet for the last ten years. This year was the year of finally finding the right driver. I went to PGATSS many times over the winter, tried all the new stuff. Of course I was swinging as hard as I could, lol, in the bays and seeing how fast my swing speed and ball speed and how far I could hit it, and of course under those circumstances the launch monitor was telling me I was spinning the "regular" drivers too much. Conclusion: "I need a low spin driver! I'm so strong and good!" Ordered the Paradym Triple Diamond, 9*. Got it in the spring, COULD NOT HIT A FAIRWAY. All kinds of crazy and terrible ball flights, totally unpredictable. Tried a 10.5* Triple Diamond. Not much better. Finally, I thought, maybe I could use a little more spin and forgiveness. I also remember hearing right before the Masters that John Rahm was not spinning his TD enough and he couldn't spin it enough to work his cut back into the fairway, it was just staying left, and I thought, "Hmm, if John Rahm is not spinning his TD enough, I'm sure I'm not either!" Traded my TD for a regular Paradym 10.5* and I am IN LOVE! I have never hit the ball this consistently, perfect little cuts right down the middle MOST of the time. I'm actually in the fairway, no penalty strokes, it's so awesome! I feel so duped for the last ten years. Last I checked my Driver Swing Speed was averaging 109.

 

I got on a Trackman multiple times outdoors this year with a fitter, and they were ALWAYS looking to optimize DISTANCE, even after I said "I DON'T WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR DISTANCE, I WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR FAIRWAYS!" (According to Arccos, scratch golfers average 259 yards off of par 4s and 5s... +3.0 handicaps average 269 off par 4s and 5s. You do not need to hit it that far to play good golf.) And yeah, my spin was slightly higher than what Trackman told me was "optimal," and yeah, I am not getting the occasional hot low spinning flat bomb that goes 330, but I don't miss that at all! I love the fairway!

 

So, bottom line, I wouldn't listen to your fitter about your sping being "too high." Hit the club you like, hit more fairways, have more fun, shoot lower scores!

[bobbyclampett!!]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:56 AM, ASak10 said:

 

I get what you're saying with this, but doesn't this assume that there is one "proper" way to swing and that whatever club/shaft combo you happen to buy is a perfect fit for that theoretical perfect swing? I'd argue a better way to look at it is that there are multiple different ways to get to proper impact and it doesn't mean you're trying to mask your flaws, but instead you are finding gear that helps your unique swing get to those proper positions.  Just a random thought I had after reading that part, found it an interesting thing to think about. 

Oh yeah, definitely not saying there is one proper way to swing a club, I shouldn't have said it that way. But, for me, like I used to really stall my hips out through impact, raise the handle, early extend, all that classic stuff, and when I "got fit," fitter would always say I was toe down and needed anywhere from 2 to 5 degrees upright. But I want to improve and swing better, not get gear for my faults, so I got standard length, lie clubs that will force me to get into better positions. Also, I had a tendency with irons to stay on right side, come in too shallow, hit just ever so slightly fat, and there's a lot of clubs designed to let you get away with that with fatter soles, but I want that meaty, compressed, penetrating flight, so I don't want a club to let me get away with fat contact, I  want a club to teach me to hit it properly.

 

I also understand that lots of people swing the way they swing, it would be too hard to change and they just want to play the best they can with the swing they have, so they get clubs that help them play the best. So many ways to play and enjoy golf. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by bobbyclampett!!
Edited for clarity

[ASak10]

18 minutes ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Dude, @ASak10 I say get yourself a fairway finder. I have strong feelings about this, because I feel like I have been led astray by the golf industry and fitting industrial complex over the last 10 years. Because I have been a high speed player (more so 10 years ago than now), I thought I NEEDED a low spin driver. I have been hitting my driver all over the planet for the last ten years. This year was the year of finally finding the right driver. I went to PGATSS many times over the winter, tried all the new stuff. Of course I was swinging as hard as I could, lol, in the bays and seeing how fast my swing speed and ball speed and how far I could hit it, and of course under those circumstances the launch monitor was telling me I was spinning the "regular" drivers too much. Conclusion: "I need a low spin driver! I'm so strong and good!" Ordered the Paradym Triple Diamond, 9*. Got it in the spring, COULD NOT HIT A FAIRWAY. All kinds of crazy and terrible ball flights, totally unpredictable. Tried a 10.5* Triple Diamond. Not much better. Finally, I thought, maybe I could use a little more spin and forgiveness. I also remember hearing right before the Masters that John Rahm was not spinning his TD enough and he couldn't spin it enough to work his cut back into the fairway, it was just staying left, and I thought, "Hmm, if John Rahm is not spinning his TD enough, I'm sure I'm not either!" Traded my TD for a regular Paradym 10.5* and I am IN LOVE! I have never hit the ball this consistently, perfect little cuts right down the middle MOST of the time. I'm actually in the fairway, no penalty strokes, it's so awesome! I feel so duped for the last ten years. Last I checked my Driver Swing Speed was averaging 109.

 

I got on a Trackman multiple times outdoors this year with a fitter, and they were ALWAYS looking to optimize DISTANCE, even after I said "I DON'T WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR DISTANCE, I WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR FAIRWAYS!" (According to Arccos, scratch golfers average 259 yards off of par 4s and 5s... +3.0 handicaps average 269 off par 4s and 5s. You do not need to hit it that far to play good golf.) And yeah, my spin was slightly higher than what Trackman told me was "optimal," and yeah, I am not getting the occasional hot low spinning flat bomb that goes 330, but I don't miss that at all! I love the fairway!

 

So, bottom line, I wouldn't listen to your fitter about your sping being "too high." Hit the club you like, hit more fairways, have more fun, shoot lower scores!

 

Love this, thanks for the response.  I think you are spot on with this especially after I thought about it more and @Joelness and @jda really hit the nail on the head too with their thoughts.  I'm convinced, especially because I don't think I'll lose that much distance to make a huge difference.  My Arccos "smart distance" for driver is 298, so even if I lose 10-15 yards but can eliminate the penalties, it will be worth it. 

[jda]

The above reminded me... are there any good fitters in town?  I usually have contempt for most of them as shaft-swappers and number readers that do more harm than good for many folks.  Anybody who can take a look at a swing & results, see what you should be doing and then recommend something?  These folks used to exist before all of the machines came out - these people needed no GCQ or TM.  Now it seems that nobody fits you to improve your game, but rather how you did for a few swings in one day.  Are good teachers/coaches going to be the best for this still?  I would love a name if anybody has one.