NEW Monte Power Shift Video - Wow!

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, ZGriswold83 said:

So, I just need to focus on keeping my butt on the wall until my left cheek gets there?

The issue is your right cheek never got to the wall in the first place, it actually is working away from the wall (towards the ball) in the backswing, which is the opposite of what you want. 

 

In the back swing, left hip stays stationary as right hip works up and back away from the ball (and eventually towards the target). In the down swing right hip stays stationary, then left hip works back. This sequence essentially creates the room for your arms.

[ZGriswold83]

20 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

The issue is your right cheek never got to the wall in the first place, it actually is working away from the wall.

LOL, what am I actually doing? I promise I have been shoving my butt into the wall at home doing those drills.

 

Edit: that was a self deprecating question. I don't expect an answer.

Edited March 7, 2023 by ZGriswold83

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, ZGriswold83 said:

LOL, what am I actually doing? I promise I have been shoving my butt into the wall at home doing those drills.

 

Edit: that was a self deprecating question. I don't expect an answer.

Well when someone tells you your golf swing is "off the wall" you now know for sure what they are talking about. LOL.  I need to work the same drill. Tend to feel a little trapped coming down with no place to swing more often than not.

Edited March 7, 2023 by ThinkingPlus
Grammer...

[iacas]

2 hours ago, ZGriswold83 said:

So, I just need to focus on keeping my butt on the wall until my left cheek gets there?

 

And away from the target a little. I think the FO view would show you pivoting it toward the target really early.

[Krt22]

11 minutes ago, ZGriswold83 said:

LOL, what am I actually doing? I promise I have been shoving my butt into the wall at home doing those drills.

 

Edit: that was a self deprecating question. I don't expect an answer.

@iacas highlighted it.  The line on your at address is the wall, at the top of the backswing your butt is moving away from the wall and towards the ball. You want to do the opposite. You might want to consider the mirrorvision app or something similar so you can get an idea what that feels like while visually confirming it's occurring.

[ZGriswold83]

Thanks all for your input. I'm going to stick with this power shift instruction because the last time I hit the ball really, really well, I had a lot of the same feelings that I have felt doing these drills.

[Krt22]

Definitely keep doing it, just use an objective form of feedback to make sure you are doing it correctly 

[D0ch0l1d4y]

1 hour ago, ZGriswold83 said:

Thanks all for your input. I'm going to stick with this power shift instruction because the last time I hit the ball really, really well, I had a lot of the same feelings that I have felt doing these drills.

 

My thought when working on getting my hips to rotate correctly is to think of my left lead hip as the center of rotation during the backswing -> right hip will move back and away from the target.  On transition and downswing, my right trail hip is the center of rotation -> left hip will move back and "away" from the target.

 

Physically, if you take your address and take a 1/4 step back with your right trail foot only, then taking a 1/2 step back with your left lead foot, it helps me feel the "isolated" rotation.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:26 PM, GungHoGolf said:

On the backswing, your right hip should go back more than the left hip comes forward. Your left hip comes forward so far that it pulls the right hip along with it. 

 

Your shoulder turn is pretty flat as well. 

 

@ZGriswold83 I would also say that this might be something that you can think about. On the backswing when you're pulling that right hip up and back, you can be sending your left shoulder down and under [your chin]. 

 

One of the reasons players can end up pulling that right hip away from the ball is standing up. On the side by side look at how much higher your head has gotten. 

 

 

If you're getting taller in the backswing, simple geometry says you're doing it by losing the angle that your spine was inclined to the ground, and it's REALLY hard to do that and keep the right hip back without moving your entire torso backward away from the ball (which is also bad). So the shoulders move up, and the pelvis HAS TO move forward as a result. 

 

You can think all sorts of technical things like "left tilt replaces forward flexion", or you can think something much simpler: get the left shoulder under my chin. Simple test--if you have to turn your head because your left shoulder pushes your chin--as is happening here--you're turning too flat. 

 

To keep it to Monte, here's how he shows the shoulders turning. 

 

 

Shoulders *should* turn perpendicular to the spine angle at address. That will be a lot more "left shoulder down and under the chin" than you're doing. 

 

I feel like that might be a better first step than Power Shift.

 

[iacas]

16 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

One of the reasons players can end up pulling that right hip away from the ball is standing up. On the side by side look at how much higher your head has gotten. 

 

I find that players "stand up" primarily as a reaction to their pelvis moving forward. I feel like you're (likely) mixing the cause and the effect.

[betarhoalphadelta]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I find that players "stand up" primarily as a reaction to their pelvis moving forward. I feel like you're (likely) mixing the cause and the effect.

 

Quite possibly. I'm qualified to talk for hours on data storage technologies, not so much the golf swing 😉

 

I just know, as a high cap who plays with a lot of high caps, that I see a TON of it out there. Guys who stand up in the backswing with a flat turn, and then have to figure out some way to get back down to the ball on the downswing, with predicably bad and inconsistent results.

 

When you have students that both stand up and flatten their turn, like OP, what sort of instruction/intents/feels do you find helps them fix it most effectively?

[iacas]

Just now, betarhoalphadelta said:

When you have students that both stand up and flatten their turn, like OP, what sort of instruction/intents/feels do you find helps them fix it most effectively?

 

I often generally talk about their right butt cheek.

 

There are very few "always"s in golf, but that's probably over 90% in my experience. The head is reacting, typically.

[betarhoalphadelta]

41 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I often generally talk about their right butt cheek.

 

There are very few "always"s in golf, but that's probably over 90% in my experience. The head is reacting, typically.

 

Cool. I've got very limited experience (basically helping my son when he took up the game, and discussions with @bortass here) and I've always liked the idea of basically what Monte says in the video I posted, that you turn your shoulders perpendicular to the angle of spinal inclination at address. With the "feel" being left shoulder down and under the chin--I don't think Monte says "under the chin" though, it's more that he says left shoulder down and right shoulder up. 

 

Granted, that wasn't to *solve* a standing up issue, it was to correct a flat shoulder turn. 

 

But now my son (age 15) has progressed to the point about all I can tell him is "I bought Monte's videos--watch those and do what he says" 😉

 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Cool. I've got very limited experience (basically helping my son when he took up the game, and discussions with @bortass here) and I've always liked the idea of basically what Monte says in the video I posted, that you turn your shoulders perpendicular to the angle of spinal inclination at address. With the "feel" being left shoulder down and under the chin--I don't think Monte says "under the chin" though, it's more that he says left shoulder down and right shoulder up.

 

I see almost too many players who do the left shoulder down too much these days. It's really just the same feel for many of rotation, just like you'd do standing up and rotating around (so your shoulders move horizontally). Lots of golfers shove their shoulder down first, start tipping the wrong way, etc.

 

That's a big generalization, though, and may not apply to you at all.

 

If you "push" the right butt cheek backward (slightly away from the target, mostly "through" the wall in the tweet above), it's tough to "stand up."

 

6 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

But now my son (age 15) has progressed to the point about all I can tell him is "I bought Monte's videos--watch those and do what he says" 😉

 

Sounds like a plan!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I see almost too many players who do the left shoulder down too much these days. It's really just the same feel for many of rotation, just like you'd do standing up and rotating around (so your shoulders move horizontally). Lots of golfers shove their shoulder down first, start tipping the wrong way, etc.

 

That's a big generalization, though, and may not apply to you at all.

 

 

I could see that being an issue. 

 

For me personally, I make that turn on the backswing and get the right hip back pretty well. My issue is not getting to the left side early enough, leading to a lateral slide towards the target on the downswing (which usually causes the other "standing up", i.e. EE, and a stall, combined with poor rotation). 

 

Which incidentally means I need to spend more time working on Power Shift lol. 

[bortass]

55 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Cool. I've got very limited experience (basically helping my son when he took up the game, and discussions with @bortass here) and I've always liked the idea of basically what Monte says in the video I posted, that you turn your shoulders perpendicular to the angle of spinal inclination at address. With the "feel" being left shoulder down and under the chin--I don't think Monte says "under the chin" though, it's more that he says left shoulder down and right shoulder up. 

 

Granted, that wasn't to *solve* a standing up issue, it was to correct a flat shoulder turn. 

 

But now my son (age 15) has progressed to the point about all I can tell him is "I bought Monte's videos--watch those and do what he says" 😉

 

"Feels" are fun because they are not universal and the adage "feel is not real" seems to be fairly accurate, IME. I've commented on the left shoulder under chin feel elsewhere and for me that all that really means is I'm doing a better job maintaining my spine angle and rotating more correctly. My shoulder doesn't get under my chin and I'm not trying to get it there. However I have found that I get that feel on some of my better swings based on the resulting shot. Like pretty much everything in life, it can be overdone and cause problems. We all need to find what clicks for us.

 

To get back to Power Shift, I'm sold on it. It's the best video Monte has put out as far as me seeing improvement. I have a long way to go but I'm already seeing some on course ball striking improvement and I have not been putting in hours on the range working on it. Granted I'm probably seeing some immediate returns because of how bad I shift and my overall swing. It's much easier to lose 10 lbs if you weigh 300 versus if you weigh 150, would be my analogy. There's no magic bullet but Power Shift explains things in a way I understand much better, even if I've seen it before. I never had a good internal understanding about the transition, what the hips are supposed to do, how to shift( don't slide!), etc. Now I have a better grasp of the concepts. I'm excited to see where this will take my game over the next year+

[GungHoGolf]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I see almost too many players who do the left shoulder down too much these days. It's really just the same feel for many of rotation, just like you'd do standing up and rotating around (so your shoulders move horizontally). Lots of golfers shove their shoulder down first, start tipping the wrong way, etc.

 

For sure. AMG covered this issue nicely just yesterday:

 

 

[ZGriswold83]

I swear I will work on the flat backswing, but I need to figure out the left hip situation first. I have been dry swinging and really trying to keep my right (trail) hip back, but I don't think I understand how to get my left (lead) hip moving back to the wall. I have issues with the lead/left side of my lower back from a past soft tissue injury, so I don't know if it's because my left side is always tighter than my right or if it's because I have never done this move and it feels odd. To get my left hip back I'm having to squat down, or at least that's what it feels like. Is that a good feel to accomplish the correct left hip movement? It feels like I'm so low to the ground there's no way there's room for a long club to get through, but I'm guessing it's because I have been EEing my whole golf career and am used to being tall during the course of my swing.

 

Also, thanks all for your input to help this life long EE'r finally get a swing that won't hurt my lower back.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

For sure. AMG covered this issue nicely just yesterday:

 

 

 

Thanks for that. When I say getting the shoulder down under the chin, what they were demonstrating is absolutely not what I meant. But I see how people could interpret it and try to make it look like that. 

 

At the very least, I can say I don't look like what they show in the video lol...

 

 

[Sean124]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Thanks for that. When I say getting the shoulder down under the chin, what they were demonstrating is absolutely not what I meant. But I see how people could interpret it and try to make it look like that. 

 

At the very least, I can say I don't look like what they show in the video lol...

 

 

How are you a 20 hcp from that position?

[betarhoalphadelta]

26 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

How are you a 20 hcp from that position?

 

I don't practice enough. Especially the short game, which I have to rely on because due to not practicing enough, I miss a lot of greens. 

 

(As far as swing mechanics are concerned, I get back to my left side too late, leading to a slide, stall/EE and poor rotation. Still functional most of the time, but causes low point control issues and the occasional dumping of the hands inside for a massive hook. Hence why I need to spend more time with Power Shift.)

[Sean124]

8 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I don't practice enough. Especially the short game, which I have to rely on because due to not practicing enough, I miss a lot of greens. 

 

(As far as swing mechanics are concerned, I get back to my left side too late, leading to a slide, stall/EE and poor rotation. Still functional most of the time, but causes low point control issues and the occasional dumping of the hands inside for a massive hook. Hence why I need to spend more time with Power Shift.)

Gotcha. Just doesn’t seem like THAT much could go wrong there haha

[iacas]

6 hours ago, ZGriswold83 said:

I swear I will work on the flat backswing, but I need to figure out the left hip situation first.

 

HARD disagree there. You need to clean up the backswing. Your left hip moves so far from the wall… during the backswing.

[Soloman1]

Hip sockets are attached to a one-piece pelvis. Some people may relate to a feel of rotating the around the center of the pelvis without moving it toward the ball - thrusting forward.

[tt81621]

I have the SAME move.   It is strange how similar.   I even lean a bit toward the target.  Left hip goes to the ball, right hip follows, lean to the target.....   Along with an inside takeaway.  I have been working on getting the right hip back and keeping it there as the left hip clears.......  For a few years.   I am ready to give up the game.   I am afraid this issue is WAY more common than we think.   Even for those of us trying to fix it the struggle is real.   Drills.   Need drills.   Any drill.  PLEASE!!!!   I am sure I am not the only one following intently.  How do you fix it???

[tt81621]

After the desperate post above and no sleep, I reread the entirety of this post.  Pulled out the Monte video, rewatched the AMG focusing solely on moving the left shoulder across and down.  I am thinking the left shoulder, as mentioned above, is the key to this whole thing.   I have literally been working on a wrong feel for years.  Could it be this easy?   Left shoulder across, rather than down.....   Right hip stayed back on my trusty folding chair, BOTH hips stayed back on transition, and left cleared going through.  My swing was eerily similar to the mistake the AMG folks pointed out on the most recent video.  

 

The result is NOTHING like it feels.  Nothing.  I wouldn't have gotten this feeling ever.  Can it be this easy?  The lessons all make sense.  Monte's video's make sense.  My back doesn't hurt.  It doesn't feel like my left hip is coming out of the socket trying to clear!!!!  

 

Thanks for not roasting me on the post above.  Golf frustration is the worst.  This is going to take some time to incorporate.  Perhaps I can finally get past the EE in my swing on to the next piece of the puzzle.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by tt81621

[ZGriswold83]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

 

HARD disagree there. You need to clean up the backswing. Your left hip moves so far from the wall… during the backswing.

I actually watched the AMG video on how the left shoulder moved in the backswing. It was like a lighbulb went on. When I tried the technique they were talking about, it made everything feel so much more natural. So, great call on fixing the backswing first.  

[ZGriswold83]

3 hours ago, tt81621 said:

After the desperate post above and no sleep, I reread the entirety of this post.  Pulled out the Monte video, rewatched the AMG focusing solely on moving the left shoulder across and down.  I am thinking the left shoulder, as mentioned above, is the key to this whole thing.   I have literally been working on a wrong feel for years.  Could it be this easy?   Left shoulder across, rather than down.....   Right hip stayed back on my trusty folding chair, BOTH hips stayed back on transition, and left cleared going through.  My swing was eerily similar to the mistake the AMG folks pointed out on the most recent video.  

 

The result is NOTHING like it feels.  Nothing.  I wouldn't have gotten this feeling ever.  Can it be this easy?  The lessons all make sense.  Monte's video's make sense.  My back doesn't hurt.  It doesn't feel like my left hip is coming out of the socket trying to clear!!!!  

 

Thanks for not roasting me on the post above.  Golf frustration is the worst.  This is going to take some time to incorporate.  Perhaps I can finally get past the EE in my swing on to the next piece of the puzzle.  

@tt81621

I couldn't agree more, I tried the AMG shoulder move last night and I have never felt more comfortable. I was able to keep my backside back and it made pressure shift seem so natural. Sounds like you and I are in the same exact spot right now. I have been so frustrated and just ready to give up, but I keep plugging away putting more and more pieces of the puzzle together.

Edited March 9, 2023 by ZGriswold83

[tt81621]

4 hours ago, ZGriswold83 said:

@tt81621

I couldn't agree more, I tried the AMG shoulder move last night and I have never felt more comfortable. I was able to keep my backside back and it made pressure shift seem so natural. Sounds like you and I are in the same exact spot right now. I have been so frustrated and just ready to give up, but I keep plugging away putting more and more pieces of the puzzle together.

 EXACTLY!!!!!  I am glad I am not the only one.  The arms are going to take some getting used to.  The back end though is much easier.   Hard to explain.  The past three years I have contorted my body in ways it is not supposed to bend.  Always had the rear come off the chair.  The shoulder across let me keep my rear end back on both backswing and going through with hardly any effort.  Repeatedly.  Been after it all day and if I turn the shoulders correctly I can't lift my rear end off the chair.   

 

Monte's videos make so much more sense now.  I am fearful that if I did unlock this secret what's next?  

[KMeloney]

My pivot has been terrible forever, so I purchased this video series this morning in hopes of nailing it down once and for all.

 

One thing I've noticed is that the correct feel of moving the trail hip back and "sliding along the wall" to the target is that it can certainly FEEL like a reverse pivot (or that you're on your way to one). It's not -- but if it feels like it, then people might be inclined to think it's not right. But do it in front of a mirror, and you can make sure that that terrible-at-first feel is actually what you should be doing.

 

One nuance that I'm not clear about yet though is when doing the against-the-wall drill, when you bring the lead cheek to the wall along side the trail cheek, does the trail cheek [that's already been on the wall] slide back AWAY from the target some at that point or order to accommodate the lead cheek? Or, is the act of bringing the lead cheek to the wall the first step in a "roll" of the cheeks down the wall (such that the trail cheek pulls off as the hips turn to face the target)?