Opinion on AJGA Ranking?

[allenartlab]

Just saw the discussion regarding whether the JGS ranking is fair and how to "game" it. I wonder what people think of AJGA ranking, which takes the course rating out of picture and solely based on which tournament you play and who you beat etc. 

[tiger1873]

Pretty strait forward you go out and play AJGA events and do well.  It' that simple. 

 

People respect AJGA so a good ranking there will get respect.  I think they have a few tournaments ranked that not AGA but for the most part your only going to rank if you play some of their events. 

 

The biggest problem I see with AJGA is the way they schedule things.  If you want to play in the spring  and your not playing All Stars or Preview events you need to be exempt and  getting in qualifiers can be tricky until later in the year.

 

 

[wegobomber31]

AJGA is going to elevate folks who win or do well in the top events. Nothing wrong with that, but Golfweek would view a win as nothing more than 2-3 good rounds against the competition where one win can carry you into a top 50 Rolex for a year and into most/all the invitationals. 
 

My only issue is the AJGA awards the same amount of points for all that tie for a certain position rather than spread out the points like every other similar rating (OWGR, WAGR, etc). So you could have a 9 way tie for 2nd in a AJGA invitational and every one of those guys would get 135 points and the guy one stroke back in 11th would get 24.5. It seems artificial and easily fixable (plus they already do the ‘spread’ method when looking at top 10-15 finishes over the past year to assign Rolex points for each tournament). 

 

I’d also like to see them consider the finish relative to the field size in assigning points. Finished near the bottom of the Ping Invitational can be worth more points than making match play and losing in the first round of the US Junior, despite the latter beating 75% of the field. 
 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by wegobomber31

[RobS]

This may be purely anecdotal but the main problem I see with AJGA is getting your foot in the door.  The formula for rankings could be improved but I generally look at AJGA as an opportunity to get your name on the radar with a win and/or some high finishes.  Navigating the tournament world outside of my PGA section is my least favorite aspect of junior golf.  

[allenartlab]

How about the fact that most kids can only play 5 events per year so not sufficient statistics in my opinion. 

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, allenartlab said:

How about the fact that most kids can only play 5 events per year so not sufficient statistics in my opinion. 

If you win or do well at an AJGA then there is a good chance to invited to the other tournaments that are invitationals.

 

you can olay those in addition the the 5 other events a year.

Edited March 8, 2023 by tiger1873

[machine_cat]

15 hours ago, allenartlab said:

How about the fact that most kids can only play 5 events per year so not sufficient statistics in my opinion. 

I think this rule saves most parents' money and time.

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, RobS said:

This may be purely anecdotal but the main problem I see with AJGA is getting your foot in the door.  The formula for rankings could be improved but I generally look at AJGA as an opportunity to get your name on the radar with a win and/or some high finishes.  Navigating the tournament world outside of my PGA section is my least favorite aspect of junior golf.  

 

100% correct.  Has been my least favorite as well.  I am not flying to Wisconsin or another small venue state over the summer just to get into an AJGA to "Play the Game".  I don't have the money to do that and I don't qualify for the ACE Grant.  This is an issue that AJGA has cultivated in junior golf that isn't good.  My opinion is there are too many kids flying in from all over the country rather than allowing in state players or by region an opportunity to play in events.  There is no reason for a junior from New York to fly to Texas or Florida to play an AJGA event unless it is an invitational.  Open events should be more regional oriented than National.

15 hours ago, allenartlab said:

How about the fact that most kids can only play 5 events per year so not sufficient statistics in my opinion. 

While most of the Open Events are dominated by Fully Exempt Players for Boys.

[RobS]

15 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

100% correct.  Has been my least favorite as well.  I am not flying to Wisconsin or another small venue state over the summer just to get into an AJGA to "Play the Game".  I don't have the money to do that and I don't qualify for the ACE Grant.  This is an issue that AJGA has cultivated in junior golf that isn't good.  My opinion is there are too many kids flying in from all over the country rather than allowing in state players or by region an opportunity to play in events.  There is no reason for a junior from New York to fly to Texas or Florida to play an AJGA event unless it is an invitational.  Open events should be more regional oriented than National.

While most of the Open Events are dominated by Fully Exempt Players for Boys.

Even if you can afford it, it's somewhat frivolous to drop all that money on airfare, rental car, hotel and meals.  Not to mention Mom or Dad having to take time off of work for most of these tournaments.  In our situation, some invites are 11th hour and by invite I mean a spot becomes available for an open or open qualifier.  The logistics aren't reasonable if the event is more than a few hours away by car.  I'm on the Maryland/DC border so it's not like I'm in the middle of nowhere.  I'm not crying about it, I'm just currently questioning the value in chasing it versus focusing on our local PGA section, State Golf Association and USGA Jr Am qualifying. 

 

There are a lot of players competing for opportunities to play in college. Outside of the top players who continue to prove themselves on the bigger stages, so many of the players are interchangeable in terms of ability to play the game so I get why exposure and rankings are extremely valuable.  I know kids that are ranked over a hundred spots apart in the same class that are virtually the same player.  I'm not under the illusion that my son is going to play at a top 25 or even 50 program if he can just get enough AJGA starts.  I'm looking at it from the perspective of getting a look from a top 100-200 school.  My son loves to play tournaments and will tee it up anywhere and live with the results so we've avoided going down the path of 'play this but don't play that'.

[Jkhogbear]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

100% correct.  Has been my least favorite as well.  I am not flying to Wisconsin or another small venue state over the summer just to get into an AJGA to "Play the Game".  I don't have the money to do that and I don't qualify for the ACE Grant.  This is an issue that AJGA has cultivated in junior golf that isn't good.  My opinion is there are too many kids flying in from all over the country rather than allowing in state players or by region an opportunity to play in events.  There is no reason for a junior from New York to fly to Texas or Florida to play an AJGA event unless it is an invitational.  Open events should be more regional oriented than National.

While most of the Open Events are dominated by Fully Exempt Players for Boys.

Agree on not flying to regular open events.  Our experience was positive though. We are in a spot where there where easily 5-6 drivable open AJGAs.   Mine got in through qualifying then played well and eventually got into Invitationals.

 

  I don’t get why more people don’t try to qualify for them.  You are usually at the same course as the tournament and if you make it then you already have several rounds on the course which is huge. Trying to get in with stars can be hard.   We realized that quickly after winning a state event and getting 2 stars.  We would have to play in 20 and win every one to make progress! 😂.   

[heavy_hitter]

33 minutes ago, Jkhogbear said:

Agree on not flying to regular open events.  Our experience was positive though. We are in a spot where there where easily 5-6 drivable open AJGAs.   Mine got in through qualifying then played well and eventually got into Invitationals.

 

  I don’t get why more people don’t try to qualify for them.  You are usually at the same course as the tournament and if you make it then you already have several rounds on the course which is huge. Trying to get in with stars can be hard.   We realized that quickly after winning a state event and getting 2 stars.  We would have to play in 20 and win every one to make progress! 😂.   

Much easier for girl's to get into events than guys.  My daughter never had a problem.

 

Why would I drive 3 hours to qualify for a tournament when I am guaranteed to play in a FJT?  The logistics and travel for a qualifier are expensive to play in something you may not get into.  I don't have enough money in the pocket for that let alone the time I have to take off for work.  Just not worth it.  This goes back to the AJGA cultivating problems in junior golf.   I will argue the AJGA has hurt as many players over the years as they have helped because of their philosophies and policies.   I give AJGA a bid 🖕for what they have done to junior golf.  Same goes for AAU basketball 🖕. 

 

My opinion is the AJGA sucks.  No other words for it.  I have had positive experience with events, but the AJGA as an organization is terrible.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

15 minutes ago, Jkhogbear said:

Agree on not flying to regular open events.  Our experience was positive though. We are in a spot where there where easily 5-6 drivable open AJGAs.   Mine got in through qualifying then played well and eventually got into Invitationals.

 

  I don’t get why more people don’t try to qualify for them.  You are usually at the same course as the tournament and if you make it then you already have several rounds on the course which is huge. Trying to get in with stars can be hard.   We realized that quickly after winning a state event and getting 2 stars.  We would have to play in 20 and win every one to make progress! 😂.   

 

 

This is pretty much true trying to get stars and playing events with stars is pretty much a waste of time.

 

The big thing about AJGA this year is they don't have tournaments spread earlier in the season. In years past it was easy for girls to get in.   This year so far unless you live in the state where your tournament is in you simply do not get in unless your a incoming senior or never played much.

 

We will see how it goes later in the year but so far it looks like I have to pick between AJGA qualifiers or miss state amateurs and set junior events as well as other possible USGA qualifiers.  It gets to a point where you can only spend so much money and time to play AJGA. 

 

 

[allenartlab]

16 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

If you win or do well at an AJGA then there is a good chance to invited to the other tournaments that are invitationals.

 

you can olay those in addition the the 5 other events a year.

Yes that's true, more playing opportunities if you do well. However, most kids outside of top 200 do not have more than 5 events ranked. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, allenartlab said:

 However, most kids outside of top 200 do not have more than 5 events ranked. 

Not sure I understand this comment?

[tiger1873]

31 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Much easier for girl's to get into events than guys.  My daughter never had a problem.

 

Why would I drive 3 hours to qualify for a tournament when I am guaranteed to play in a FJT?  The logistics and travel for a qualifier are expensive to play in something you may not get into.  I don't have enough money in the pocket to that let alone the time I have to take off for work.  Just not worth it.  This goes back to the AJGA cultivating problems in junior golf.   I will argue the AJGA has hurt as many players over the years as they have helped because of their philosophies and policies.   I give AJGA a bid 🖕for what they have done for junior golf.  Same goes for AAU basketball 🖕. 

 

My opinion is the AJGA sucks.  No other words for it.

 

 

I used to think the path to AJGA was just like any other tour. You go out qualify and play well and you get to play more as you gain status.

 

Well seeing peers of my daughter blaze a trail and spend a small fortune to qualify and play AJGA Junior and even get exempt over the last years. To me it seemed like maybe everyone else was far behind and we may never catch up.

 

Well as kids get older those kids exemptions and stars they won  expire  and unless they win every year at the few events they can play they end up like everyone else.  I am now seeing a lot those same kids not get into events and have no chance for a qualifier. My daughter actually gets into qualifiers over them now.  

 

I can't imagine how these parents feel there kids are almost certainly going to stagnate or drop in rankings if they can't play the same events they did when they where 13-14.  It's almost like they got punished for early success. 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

In a sense Stars are about how much $$$$ you throw at the AJGA.  AJGA is for the top 10% of junior golfers across the board.  The middle class are the ones that fund the AJGA because parents are willing to chase those stars.  5000 members at $200 each is a cool million dollars.  To be clear I have no idea how many members the AJGA has.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

22 minutes ago, allenartlab said:

Yes that's true, more playing opportunities if you do well. However, most kids outside of top 200 do not have more than 5 events ranked. 

 

Based on the scores and competition you see at AJGA events if you playing 5 events and doing well you will have no problem being the top 200.  If not then something is wrong.

 

Most of the kids playing AJGA are not much different then top 50% of any PGA section. 

[heavy_hitter]

While I am on the kick AJGA in the rear bandwagon, here is another complaint.  AJGA Preview Field picked in Florida today.  Every 2023 got in the field.  2024 kids from other states are getting in before the Florida kids that support these venues.  It is complete BS.  No other way to say it.  Now, the Florida kids have to fly across the country just to try and play a preview.  So much wrong with the AJGA.

[golfortennis]

27 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

While I am on the kick AJGA in the rear bandwagon, here is another complaint.  AJGA Preview Field picked in Florida today.  Every 2023 got in the field.  2024 kids from other states are getting in before the Florida kids that support these venues.  It is complete BS.  No other way to say it.  Now, the Florida kids have to fly across the country just to try and play a preview.  So much wrong with the AJGA.

 

When is the event?  I don't disagree with you overall on the thought process, but Florida has this phenomenon known as no snow that makes events this time of year able to happen.  Short of banning Florida kids from playing between November and April, how do you level this out? 

[heavy_hitter]

33 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

When is the event?  I don't disagree with you overall on the thought process, but Florida has this phenomenon known as no snow that makes events this time of year able to happen.  Short of banning Florida kids from playing between November and April, how do you level this out? 

Keep it regional.  This is the only Preview Event this year in Florida.  There are 16 other events across the states with many hitting particular regions.  13 coming in from the North East when there are 3 Preview events in that area in May, June, and July.

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

When is the event?  I don't disagree with you overall on the thought process, but Florida has this phenomenon known as no snow that makes events this time of year able to happen.  Short of banning Florida kids from playing between November and April, how do you level this out? 

The previews are horrible I do not know why they even have them.  If you played an AJGA in the last year there not available to you.   
 

Once you take them and junior all stars out you can see how few tournaments they actually have this time of year for kids older then 15.

 

 

There should be only junior all stars and opens and open up a few spots in them for kids who haven’t played by lottery. This woukd serve everyone better.

 

what happens with the previews is they take senior year first so it pretty much guarantees everyone else doesn’t get in.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by tiger1873

[allenartlab]

8 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not sure I understand this comment?

I was just pointing out that the AJGA ranking is not very meaningful for kids not in top 200 since they don't enough events to be ranked.

[kcap]

All this hate.  
 

Well, i like the AJGA. Not sure about the girls but the boys competition is awesome.  Give me another tour where you need to shoot close to par over two rounds just to make the cut and need to shoot well under par to win.

 

The courses are great, the staff and interns are friendly and root for you.

 

The spring season is always hard because there are few tournaments and everyone wants to play and get showcased etc.  My hope is that we get exempt, get higher ranked, and be part of the elite spring season!! 

 

The preview are for kids that have not played AJGA before - the location does not matter, all that is considered is your class and experience.   If you really want to play the preview, go play the qualifier,  and get through with that route.  
 

 

I don’t know much about the rankings. 

 

[tiger1873]

17 minutes ago, kcap said:

All this hate.  
 

Well, i like the AJGA. Not sure about the girls but the boys competition is awesome.  Give me another tour where you need to shoot close to par over two rounds just to make the cut and need to shoot well under par to win.

 

The courses are great, the staff and interns are friendly and root for you.

 

The spring season is always hard because there are few tournaments and everyone wants to play and get showcased etc.  My hope is that we get exempt, get higher ranked, and be part of the elite spring season!! 

 

The preview are for kids that have not played AJGA before - the location does not matter, all that is considered is your class and experience.   If you really want to play the preview, go play the qualifier,  and get through with that route.  
 

 

I don’t know much about the rankings. 

 

 

Here is what I don’t understand if you exempt you can can pick and choose at will.  Also there is a good chance many of these same kids get invited to invitationals.

 

So why would you rush to play events that are not on great courses or where weather is a factor.The way AJGA works is you lose stars and you exemption every 2 years. This sounds like a lot but because of the way they expire at the end of the calendar year  you really only have 1 full year to use it.

 

playing the the mad rush in the spring is actually a good way to lose your exemption if your not playing invitationals because you only have 5 chances to keep it.  With golf being what it is and those fields stronger then average the chances of a top 3 is a wildcard who will get it. 

 

[allenartlab]

46 minutes ago, kcap said:

All this hate.  
 

Well, i like the AJGA. Not sure about the girls but the boys competition is awesome.  Give me another tour where you need to shoot close to par over two rounds just to make the cut and need to shoot well under par to win.

 

The courses are great, the staff and interns are friendly and root for you.

 

The spring season is always hard because there are few tournaments and everyone wants to play and get showcased etc.  My hope is that we get exempt, get higher ranked, and be part of the elite spring season!! 

 

The preview are for kids that have not played AJGA before - the location does not matter, all that is considered is your class and experience.   If you really want to play the preview, go play the qualifier,  and get through with that route.  
 

 

I don’t know much about the rankings. 

 

I'm not a hater 🙂 No other junior circuit has connection as AJGA does and gives junior golfers a platform to showcase to college coaches. 

My original intention was to just seek people's opinion on the AJGA ranking system, compared to JGS. The thread quickly evolved into other aspects of AJGA 🙂 

[kcap]

6 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Here is what I don’t understand if you exempt you can can pick and choose at will.  Also there is a good chance many of these same kids get invited to invitationals.

 

So why would you rush to play events that are not on great courses or where weather is a factor.The way AJGA works is you lose stars and you exemption every 2 years. This sounds like a lot but because of the way they expire at the end of the calendar year  you really only have 1 full year to use it.

 

playing the the mad rush in the spring is actually a good way to lose your exemption if your not playing invitationals because you only have 5 chances to keep it.  With golf being what it is and those fields stronger then average the chances of a top 3 is a wildcard who will get it. 

 

 You play the spring season because the fields are stacked and gives you a oppt to stand out.   The field at Sergio Gracia was 40 fully exempt with a ranking 199 or better.  No open in the summer will have a field like that.. and just because you are fully exempt does not imply an invite to an invitational. 
 

 If you are concerned about loosing exemption then playing college is not for you.  
 

also I assume kids play only a couple of spring open and then a few summer opens- that should give them plenty of opportunities to be in the top 3 or top 5 (boys) to get exempt again.

 

weather, course.  Does not bother because that is unpredictable. 
 

The only reason that spring golf gives us a pause is because we are in the NE and the last true competitive round was 4 months ago.  So it hard to know the state of the game but that is why you travel to FL and take all the spots from the FL kids  🙂

[Jkhogbear]

8 hours ago, kcap said:

All this hate.  
 

Well, i like the AJGA. Not sure about the girls but the boys competition is awesome.  Give me another tour where you need to shoot close to par over two rounds just to make the cut and need to shoot well under par to win.

 

The courses are great, the staff and interns are friendly and root for you.

 

The spring season is always hard because there are few tournaments and everyone wants to play and get showcased etc.  My hope is that we get exempt, get higher ranked, and be part of the elite spring season!! 

 

The preview are for kids that have not played AJGA before - the location does not matter, all that is considered is your class and experience.   If you really want to play the preview, go play the qualifier,  and get through with that route.  
 

 

I don’t know much about the rankings. 

 

There is a lot of hate in here about AJGA and I don’t get it either.  We have had nothing but positive experiences with it. 

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, kcap said:

 You play the spring season because the fields are stacked and gives you a oppt to stand out.   The field at Sergio Gracia was 40 fully exempt with a ranking 199 or better.  No open in the summer will have a field like that.. and just because you are fully exempt does not imply an invite to an invitational. 
 

 If you are concerned about loosing exemption then playing college is not for you.  
 

also I assume kids play only a couple of spring open and then a few summer opens- that should give them plenty of opportunities to be in the top 3 or top 5 (boys) to get exempt again.

 

weather, course.  Does not bother because that is unpredictable. 
 

The only reason that spring golf gives us a pause is because we are in the NE and the last true competitive round was 4 months ago.  So it hard to know the state of the game but that is why you travel to FL and take all the spots from the FL kids  🙂

 

 

If you want the best fields you should be playing the AJGA invitationals.  The opens are never as good as the invitationals. You are overestimating how good kids are that play AJGA.

 

Also playing strong fields and well in invitationals is where you want to get exemptions.

 

A lot kids never really play any opens once they get invites to the biggest AJGA events. The only reason you want to play opens is because you not doing well enough in big events and therefore need to keep your status.

 

Those kids who need to place well in a open to keep an exemption will most likely need all 5 chances to play.  The better the completion means the harder it is to place in a top 3.  

 

If you enter into the Sergio Event and there are 20 players who can break par that pretty much means you could be 1st or your could be 20th.  The odds go way down you will get it.  Not only that you AJGA ranking will be worse (which will make it harder to get invites) because of where you place. 

 

My thing is I just don't ge the desperation of some these parents to try and play it when you can do a little planing and strategically will be better off.

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Jkhogbear said:

There is a lot of hate in here about AJGA and I don’t get it either.  We have had nothing but positive experiences with it. 

 

I don't there is hate for the events. What I get frustrated with is the policies of AJGA.  It just a lot of money and time you need to devote to play enough events.

 

With golf even if your the best player in the world you have good and bad days so for me it's not about the competition but more of a matter that we need to play enough to make it happen. 

 

When I look at what it took other players to get enough chances to play and get exemptions the cost is huge. I figures it's easily $10k-20K to play qualifiers and enough tournaments to make it happen.

 

When you think about what you get for that amount of money you have to wonder is it truly worth it.

[heavy_hitter]

12 hours ago, allenartlab said:

I was just pointing out that the AJGA ranking is not very meaningful for kids not in top 200 since they don't enough events to be ranked.

100% correct.